Poll: Do we worship the God of the old covenant?

[MatthewG]

Just now, @Carl Emerson. But listen I am done speaking and you just have a good night sir... I don't mind being straight forward with people anymore. You disregarded me, by your persistent in only what you need to be made known. I probably do it too and don't realize it unless someone points it out to me.

God (Yahavah) bless ya mate

 

[Carl Emerson]

Just now, @Carl Emerson. But listen I am done speaking and you just have a good night sir... I don't mind being straight forward with people anymore. You disregarded me, by your persistent in only what you need to be made known. I probably do it too and don't realize it unless someone points it out to me.

God (Yahavah) bless ya mate

For the record all I try to do is to encourage others to take all of scripture into account in forming theology.

I also offer my position in humility inviting correction.

 

[MatthewG]

For the record all I try to do is to encourage others to take all of scripture into account in forming theology.

I also offer my position in humility inviting correction.

Disregarding is not being humble. (I do it to people as well - dang flesh.) You didn't even go back to see what I said or converse with me.

I forgive you, but I don't mind being straight forward. Good bye... (Ignored)

 

[Carl Emerson]

Disregarding is not being humble. (I do it to people as well - dang flesh.) You didn't even go back to see what I said or converse with me.

I forgive you, but I don't mind being straight forward. Good bye... (Ignored)

If other readers can assist me to make sense out of that response It would be appreciated.

Not sure why this member would feel disregarded - I thought we were getting along just fine.

 

[MatthewG]

Philippians 2:4 Do not merely look out for your own personal interests, but also for the interests of others.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Philippians 2:4 Do not merely look out for your own personal interests, but also for the interests of others.

Agreed

 

[St. SteVen]

My point is - the Son had a Name way before Jesus was born, and I am sure it wasn't Logos...

My guess is that it was Yehoshua. The God who Saves.

So, the Son had a name before Jesus was born. (the name of the Father) ???
But we can only guess as to what that name is. ???

Let's unpack that and see what we find. Scripture below. (and footnotes)

Questions:
1) Does the phrase "the/that name you gave me" indicate that the Father gave Jesus his name? As in, named him?
2) Or was the/that name "given" for another purpose? Not the purpose of naming. ???
3) By what power (the power of what name) were those who belonged to Jesus protected? - vs 11
4) Again, by what name did Jesus protect them and keep them safe? - vs 12
5) What do the words. "so that they may be one as we are one" at the end of vs 11 mean?
6) Since there was protective power in that name, why is it hidden from us? Is it only for Jesus to use?
7) If Jesus used that name, was it never recorded? Since we don't know what it is. (or do we?) ???

John 17:11-12 NIV
I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you.
Holy Father, protect them by the power of[a] your name, the name you gave me, so that they may be one as we are one.
12 While I was with them, I protected them and kept them safe by[b] that name you gave me.
None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled.

Footnotes: (a and b)

1. John 17:11 Or Father, keep them faithful to
2. John 17:12 Or kept them faithful to

[

 

[Spyder]

That's interesting because I don't believe things people say, I believe what God says in his word.
And I read what is written and take from it what it gives me.
I may not be a scholar in other languages, and if God wanted me to be I probably would be. That seems to be your calling and that's great.
No, what I hear is God poured himself into a vessel that he created for himself to reside in and walk among us.
But because people are carnally minded they only see the vessel and not the spirit within the carnal body.
And so Jesus always refered to the Father as Spirit because we couldn't see through the flesh.
Apparently neither could Satan.
I suppose there will come a day when all of our questions are answered without any doubts.
In the meantime be content in what you believe and I will be content in what I believe.
Maybe we're both right.
LOL
2Co 5:16
Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.

2Co 5:19
To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

What does God was in Christ mean to you?

Hugs

Yes, Ziggy, one day it will no longer be a debatable issue.

It is a significant leap to change from "born with the fullness of God's spirit" to "God reborn as a man." Therein lies the issue.

 

[MatthewG]

So, the Son had a name before Jesus was born. (the name of the Father) ???
But we can only guess as to what that name is. ???

Let's unpack that and see what we find. Scripture below. (and footnotes)

Questions:
1) Does the phrase "the/that name you gave me" indicate that the Father gave Jesus his name? As in, named him?
2) Or was the/that name "given" for another purpose? Not the purpose of naming. ???
3) By what power (the power of what name) were those who belonged to Jesus protected? - vs 11
4) Again, by what name did Jesus protect them and keep them safe? - vs 12
5) What do the words. "so that they may be one as we are one" at the end of vs 11 mean?
6) Since there was protective power in that name, why is it hidden from us? Is it only for Jesus to use?
7) If Jesus used that name, was it never recorded? Since we don't know what it is. (or do we?) ???

John 17:11-12 NIV
I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you.
Holy Father, protect them by the power of[a] your name, the name you gave me, so that they may be one as we are one.
12 While I was with them, I protected them and kept them safe by[b] that name you gave me.
None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled.

Footnotes: (a and b)

1. John 17:11 Or Father, keep them faithful to
2. John 17:12 Or kept them faithful to

[

That makes a difference reading that, the name the Father gave him, was Yahvah, and he proclaimed it. You keep going down you see it verse 26. Thanks Steven.

“And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.”
‭‭John‬ ‭17‬:‭26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

John 17:26 And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them. | King James Version (KJV) | Download The Bible App Now

And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.

bible.com

 

[Carl Emerson]

John 14:13
And whatever you ask in My name, this I will do, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

What did the disciples call Jesus - what Name was He given.

Simple really - the Name of Jesus.

So in English Jesus is the Name above every name - this according to John was the Father's Name given to Him and means "the God who Saves"

Yeshua in modern Hebrew.

Yehoshua in Classical Hebrew.

Jesus in English.

I am putting this out there for comment.

 

[gpresdo]

The risen Jesus and the Father are one - and both are all knowing.

Jesus accepted a limited understanding when He took on humanity for our sake.

That period of time is well past.

Not scriptural.
Please explain why Christ, as manifested....does not know the date of His 2nd advent....but, God does?

 

[Carl Emerson]

Not scriptural.
Please explain why Christ, as manifested....does not know the date of His 2nd advent....but, God does?

Matt 24
36 “But about that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone. 37 For the coming of the Son of Man will be just like the days of Noah".

Jesus said that before His ascension.

Taking on Humanity was to accept limited understanding to be fully human.

Hebrews 2:9
But we do see Him who was made for a little while lower than the angels, namely, Jesus, because of His suffering death crowned with glory and honor, so that by the grace of God He might taste death for everyone.

Now that He is risen and sits on the throne in glory in complete unity with the Father, they share Omniscience.

 

[MatthewG]

Everyone normally calls "God" their Father, or they may say "LORD" when they are praying @Carl Emerson, normally they end the prayer in Jesus name. That's why I believe Jesus father name is Yahavah.

You can pray to Yahavah, Father, LORD, in Jesus name.

I don't see why people have such a issues with this. I never really say Jesus, ya ya, in Jesus name but that's not baring anyone from trying say hey "Father in heaven, I thank you for your, Son, and Jesus thank you for what you have done, and I just pray for you to be with all the people I know in my life, in Jesus name, amen."


Anyway, to each their own! :) I think that is how it goes I could be wrong.

Jesus said you can ask the Father in heaven to help you by the spirit, and those who do so how much more will he not help you?
The Father adopts people into the kingdom because of faith on the Lord Jesus Christ.

... etc etc ....



There is all kinds of factors really.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Everyone normally calls "God" their Father, or they may say "LORD" when they are praying @Carl Emerson, normally they end the prayer in Jesus name. That's why I believe Jesus father name is Yahavah.

You can pray to Yahavah, Father, LORD, in Jesus name.

I don't see why people have such a issues with this. I never really say Jesus, ya ya, in Jesus name but that's not baring anyone from trying say hey "Father in heaven, I thank you for your, Son, and Jesus thank you for what you have done, and I just pray for you to be with all the people I know in my life, in Jesus name, amen."


Anyway, to each their own! :) I think that is how it goes I could be wrong.

Jesus said you can ask the Father in heaven to help you by the spirit, and those who do so how much more will he not help you?
The Father adopts people into the kingdom because of faith on the Lord Jesus Christ.

... etc etc ....



There is all kinds of factors really.

Yes... we know God the Father has several names which are usually associated with an attribute. So when we pray it is fitting to match the nature of the petition to an aspect of His nature by addressing Him with the appropriate Name.

 

[MatthewG]

Yes... we know God the Father has several names which are usually associated with an attribute. So when we pray it is fitting to match the nature of the petition to an aspect of His nature by addressing Him with the appropriate Name.

Not everyone knows that. Man I skimmed through a local church screening and pffft.... most of it was a man just speaking out loud and barely read the bible.... 2 hours and barely a word read, if any I just skimmed it I didn't see very much.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Not everyone knows that. Man I skimmed through a local church screening and pffft.... most of it was a man just speaking out loud and barely read the bible.... 2 hours and barely a word read, if any I just skimmed it I didn't see very much.

Yes - the reading of scripture devotionally ministers and restores.

 

[Ziggy]

Yes, Ziggy, one day it will no longer be a debatable issue.

It is a significant leap to change from "born with the fullness of God's spirit" to "God reborn as a man." Therein lies the issue.

I don't believe God was "reborn" as you say.
But then again.. I like to think outside the box.
The people had forgotten God. I'm talking the politicians, the religious leaders. They were running the people as if they were god.
Kind of like what we see today.
When Jesus came he made God alive to them. In their face even.
It was a Great Awakening to many that slept.

If God is Spirit, and Jesus was born with the fullness of God's Spirit, then how can you say that Jesus was not fully God?
Because he was in temporary body which he created to be able to speak with man face to face?

God don't die and he doesn't need rebirthing.
People on the other hand forget and need to be reminded from age to age.

You see what's happening around the world right now?
Church's burning down in France. Pastors getting arrested for speaking out about transgender mutilations.
Jews being attacked on college campuses.
Islam is coming....

And it's going to come down to Jesus Christ or Allah.

What will be debatable is who you will decide to serve.
And from what I understand, Islam isn't very tolerable of other peoples beliefs.
Just sayin..

Hugs

 

[Spyder]

If God is Spirit, and Jesus was born with the fullness of God's Spirit, then how can you say that Jesus was not fully God?
Because he was in temporary body which he created to be able to speak with man face to face?

God don't die and he doesn't need rebirthing.
People on the other hand forget and need to be reminded from age to age.

I don't believe God was "reborn" as you say.
But then again.. I like to think outside the box.

If God is Spirit, and Jesus was born with the fullness of God's Spirit, then how can you say that Jesus was not fully God?
Because he was in temporary body which he created to be able to speak with man face to face?

God don't die and he doesn't need rebirthing.
People on the other hand forget and need to be reminded from age to age.

You see what's happening around the world right now?
Church's burning down in France. Pastors getting arrested for speaking out about transgender mutilations.
Jews being attacked on college campuses.
Islam is coming....

Hugs

I know it is somewhat of a shock to read or hear something that seems to be "off," but since you like to think outside of the box, it should not be too unsettling.

God's spirit impregnated Mary, the mother of Yeshua.

The child was born of woman and Yahweh. He was a human being with Yahweh's "DNA." His spirit was full - as apposed to a child born of a human man and human woman.

Yet, Yeshua spoke often of His Father Yahweh - not in past tense. Yahweh was still separate from Yeshua. Yeshua had authority given Him by His Father. Scripture illustrates that this happened at His baptism by John. His first recorded miraculous event is given after that baptism.

Yeshua told His disciples that His tas was to give the words His Father gave Him to the people of Israel. In doing so, He became the logos of God. He specifically told people that His words were not his own but the words His Father gave Him.

John the Baptist said that Jesus did not receive a portion of the Holy Spirit as we do but received the Spirit without limit.

Jn 3:34–35 For he whom God has sent utters the words of God, for he gives the Spirit without measure. The Father loves the Son and has given all things into his hand.

 

[MatthewG]

I know it is somewhat of a shock to read or hear something that seems to be "off," but since you like to think outside of the box, it should not be too unsettling.

God's spirit impregnated Mary, the mother of Yeshua.

The child was born of woman and Yahweh. He was a human being with Yahweh's "DNA." His spirit was full - as apposed to a child born of a human man and human woman.

Yet, Yeshua spoke often of His Father Yahweh - not in past tense. Yahweh was still separate from Yeshua. Yeshua had authority given Him by His Father. Scripture illustrates that this happened at His baptism by John. His first recorded miraculous event is given after that baptism.

Yeshua told His disciples that His tas was to give the words His Father gave Him to the people of Israel. In doing so, He became the logos of God. He specifically told people that His words were not his own but the words His Father gave Him.

John the Baptist said that Jesus did not receive a portion of the Holy Spirit as we do but received the Spirit without limit.

Jn 3:34–35 For he whom God has sent utters the words of God, for he gives the Spirit without measure. The Father loves the Son and has given all things into his hand.

Thank Yahweh, for Yeshua, having overcome genetic defect of DNA, even! He has had the victory over all things, even such as a defects.

 

[Carl Emerson]

John the Baptist said that Jesus did not receive a portion of the Holy Spirit as we do but received the Spirit without limit.

This sounds like a specific interpretation of the Scripture.

JB was told that the Messiah would uniquely have the Holy Spirit remain in Him at baptism others were temporally blessed with His presence.

This was the first Baptism in the Spirit that the disciples later received at Pentecost.

If we receive the Baptism of the Holy Spirit today it is a permanent anointing to empower ministry.

However the empowering is as the Spirit wills in measure according to our calling.