(winsome;54774)
treeoflife, krissWhy do you continue to contradict scripture by calling the saints that have gone before us to heaven dead when they are alive?I made this post earlier and you have avoided answering it.Is your failure to respond because scripture is clear that they are alive but you just will not accept what scripture says?LGF has shown you many passages that show that the saints in heaven are alive.Let me add some more:What does Jesus say?Do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell. (Mt 10:28)The soul does not die, it can only be destroyed in hellThis is a non argument its not even on subject its talking about the second death we are not to be concerned with our physical death but death of our soul The fact that we will all become spirit soul bodies (1 Cor 15) at the second coming has nothing to do with the saints in heaven hearing prayers of the living today What does Paul say?my desire is to depart and be with Christ, for that is far better; but to remain in the flesh is more necessary for you. (Phil 1:23-24)Why would Paul desire to depart [this life] and be with Christ if he would only be dead with him? To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord no one denies this No one denies the soul/spirit lives on with the Lordbut this still has nothing to do with the hearing the living again a non argumentAs treeoflife pointed out earlier To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord (2 Corinthians 5:8)What does the writer of Hebrews say?“But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to innumerable angels in festal gathering, and to the assembly of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God the judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel”. (Heb 12:22-24).What does John say in Revelation about who is in heaven?The twenty four elders are worshipping God in Rev 4And what are they doing?And whenever the living creatures give glory and honor and thanks to the one who is seated on the throne, who lives forever and ever, the twenty-four elders fall before the one who is seated on the throne and worship the one who lives forever and ever; they cast their crowns before the throne, singing,“You are worthy, our Lord and God,to receive glory and honor and power,for you created all things, and by your will they existed and were created.” (Rev 4:9-11)The multitude from every nation dressed in white before the throne in Rev 7 They cried out in a loud voice, saying,“Salvation belongs to our God who is seated on the throne, and to the Lamb!” (Rev 7:10)andFor this reason they are before the throne of God, and worship him day and night within his temple, (Rev 7:15)They all sound very much alive to me.What else is going on in heaven?“When he had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell before the Lamb, each holding a harp and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints.” (Rev 5:8)And “Another angel with a golden censer came and stood at the altar; he was given a great quantity of incense to offer with the prayers of all the saints on the golden altar that is before the throne.” (Rev 8:3)If the saints in heaven are offering our prayers to God, then they must be aware of our prayers. They are aware of our petitions and present them to God by interceding for us.
My answers are in Red Above. you are confusing subjects the dead Saints and all are with the Lord this is True, but that in NO WAY means they have anything to do with living including interceding for anyone in fact scripture says the opposite the Dead KNOW NOTHING of the living under the Sun (on earth). No one said they do not know of the things happening in heaven, In fact we have an example in Lazzarus he was aware of where he was and what was going on there, but he wasn't aware of what was happening on earth. You are taking the happenings in heaven and trying to apply them to earth and flesh. We are told the DEAD Know Nothing of the earth, We are even told there is a gulf that can not be crossed between the two. Rev 6:9 ¶ And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: Rev 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? They cried out from under the Alter how long O LordThey are asking God how Long before they are avenged, they clearly do not know, as they are not aware of things on earth so they are asking God how long. Rev 6:11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they [were], should be fulfilled. God tells them they should keep resting for a little longer Do you see they are resting NOT INTERCEEDING for anyone.