Pre-Trib Rapture Danger To Your Soul

[covenantee]

Early 200 to 300 church fathers ==

A voice from the long past on Pre-tribulation Rapture​

As the time of the Rapture becomes closer and we see clearer signs of the nearness of the Tribulation the voice of Ephraim the Syrian comforts us in the knowledge that the Pre-tribulation Rapture is a valid eschatological belief for the church approaching the time of the tribulation.
On the Last Times, the Antichrist, and the End of the World, written by Ephraim the Syrian (sometimes spelled Ephrem), an early church father, who lived from A.D. 306–373.
“For all the saints and Elect of God are gathered, prior to the Tribulation that is to come, and are taken to the Lord lest they see the confusion that is to overwhelm the world because of our sins.”
“For the elect shall be gathered prior to the tribulation, so they shall not see the confusion and the great tribulation coming upon the unrighteous world.” === Pray you be counted worthy to escape and be counted worthy!!!

They're named Pseudo-Ephraem for a reason.

There are two pseudepigrapha, one Latin and one Syriac, dating to no earlier than the 7th century AD.

There is almost nothing in common in the content between the two.

They are obvious forgeries.

 

[Enoch111]

Man's theory of a Pre-tribulational Rapture is dangerous to one's soul who believes it.

That is one of the most laughable statements made on this forum! Beliefs in certain ways (right or wrong) in which Bible prophecy will be fulfilled has no bearing on the salvation of anyone. There are millions of Christians who believe in a Pre-Tribulation Rapture (myself included).

 

[teamventure]

Man's theory of a Pre-tribulational Rapture is dangerous to one's soul who believes it.

The reason is because that idea by men is designed to lead you to worship of the devil in the last days.

That is the most contrived and illogical thing I've ever heard about eschatology. It's simply propaganda and has no basis.

 

[teamventure]

That is the most contrived and illogical thing I've ever heard about eschatology. It's simply propaganda and has no basis.

It says that his sheep know his voice and follow him, not that they cease belonging to him by getting the timing of the rapture wrong. I'm laughing.

 

[Davy]

How so? If the pre-trib rapture is real, then we are gone, and not worshipping the devil. If the pre-trib rapture is not real, we remain indwelled by the Holy Spirit, how does that lead us to devil worship?

That seems completely non-sequitor to me. Why would I worship the devil because I've concluded the rapture is pre-trib?

Much love!

That's just it, you will not recognize the false-Messiah as being FALSE, but will receive him in place of Jesus Christ, wrongly thinking he is Lord Jesus, because of the great signs, wonders, and miracles that coming false-Messiah is going to work...

Lord Jesus' warning to the Church about that:

Matt 24:23-28
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, "Lo, here is Christ, or there"; believe it not.

If someone comes up to you and says Jesus has returned, and you have not gone through the 'change' that Apostle Paul preached in 1 Corinthians 15, then that one will be the false-Messiah come to play Jesus Christ, working miracles to deceive.

24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

That phrase "false Christs" is actually Greek pseudochristos, from two Greek words, 'pseudo' which means false, and 'christos' which is singular for Christ. The tense of these verses here are SINGULAR, about the coming of A false-Christ that will have power to actually perform great signs and miracles, that IF... possible, would deceive even Christ's very elect.

That last statement Jesus made about that is very important, because it reveals just on what level... of deceptive power of miracles that coming pseudo-Christ is going to work. Christ's very elect cannot be deceived, because Jesus already owns His very elect and they are chosen. But those 'called' only, they can allow themselves to be deceived, and that means the majority of the world.

That event for the coming tribulation is the apostasy (falling away) that Apostle Paul was warning us about when that "man of sin" is revealed per 2 Thessalonians 2. Paul also called it the "strong delusion" that God is sending upon those who receive not the love of the Truth.

25 Behold, I have told you before.

Anytime The LORD repeats a prophecy, it means pay attention, big time!

26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, "Behold, He is in the desert"; go not forth: "behold, He is in the secret chambers"; believe it not.

Lord Jesus repeats His warning of verse 23. But this time with more info. It points to that coming false-Christ setting himself up in the temple at Jerusalem ("secret chambers") having come in from the north (he is to come down to Jerusalem per the path that the "Assyrian" did per the Book of Isaiah.)

27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

With that, Lord Jesus is contrasting how HE RETURNS in comparison with how the deceived will be saying, "Lo, here is Christ, or there" about the false-Christ's coming.

28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
KJV

That verse is a parallel to His answer of Luke 17:37 when His disciples asked Him 'where' the first one 'taken' would be taken to. He said wheresoever the dead are, that's where the fowls will be gathered. So that definitely is not about a rapture to Lord Jesus, even though that is what the Pre-trib Rapture school teaches.

In Summary:
If one is deceived in not understanding that a false-Christ is coming first to play Lord Jesus, as warned by Lord Jesus and the Epistles by His Apostles, then they will be wrongly led to believe on the false-Christ and will not be found a spiritually 'chaste virgin' to Jesus Christ when He does return afterwards.

 

[marks]

If one is deceived in not understanding that a false-Christ is coming first to play Lord Jesus, as warned by Lord Jesus and the Epistles by His Apostles, then they will be wrongly led to believe on the false-Christ and will not be found a spiritually 'chaste virgin' to Jesus Christ when He does return afterwards.

That's totally non-sequitor. Personally I find your argument baseless.

Much love!

 

[Davy]

That is one of the most laughable statements made on this forum! Beliefs in certain ways (right or wrong) in which Bible prophecy will be fulfilled has no bearing on the salvation of anyone. There are millions of Christians who believe in a Pre-Tribulation Rapture (myself included).

I am certain that Lord Jesus will have the last laugh when He returns after the coming false-Christ that comes first playing him with the power to deceive the whole world. Apostle Paul in 2 Corinthians 11 warned about falling away to "another spirit" to believe on the "another Jesus". He said he wanted to present us to Christ as a "chaste virgin" (spiritual sense). Those who fall away to the coming false-Messiah in Jerusalem at the end before Jesus comes, will have become a spiritual harlot. And man's false pre-trib rapture doctrine was especially designed for those deceived that love man's words more than the written Word of God. Thus Apostle Paul in 2 Thessalonians 2 revealed God is sending those "strong delusion", because they receive not the love of the Truth.

 

[Davy]

That is the most contrived and illogical thing I've ever heard about eschatology. It's simply propaganda and has no basis.

Then you have never read Lord Jesus' warning about the false-Messiah that comes first per Matthew 24:23-26.

I'll bet you believe you want to be the 1st one 'taken' too, even though Jesus showed in Luke 17:37 and Matthew 24:28 that the 1st one 'taken' will be to wheresoever the dead carcase is that the fowls are gathered to (feasting). Your false pre-trib rapture prophets teach you to go to Satan's host by that!

 

[Davy]

That's totally non-sequitor. Personally I find your argument baseless.

Much love!

Then you reveal you have not... read Apostle Paul's simple warnings in 2 Corinthians 11, nor Jesus' warnings in Matthew 24:23-26. So what are you, too chicken to check out those Scriptures? Are you AFRAID they might expose your beloved pre-trib rapture false prophets you have put your trust in? (And I am mocking them, not you. I want you to come to understanding God's Word as written, and not put blind trust in those men.)


A Revelation by Lord Jesus:

Rev 13:4-9
4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme His name, and His tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

9 If any man have an ear, let him hear.
KJV

The "dragon" title is simply another name for Satan per Rev.12:9.

Verse 7-8 is especially revealing what he is going to do at the end of this world, PRIOR to Christ's coming to gather us. "All that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world."

Christ's Church will still... be here on earth to go through that. That is especially why Lord Jesus gave His Church His Book of Revelation, so we'd prepare for these things towards the end just before His future return.

 

[marks]

So what are you, too chicken to check out those Scriptures? Are you AFRAID they might expose your beloved pre-trib rapture false prophets you have put your trust in? (And I am mocking them, not you. I want you to come to understanding God's Word as written, and not put blind trust in those men.)

I have zero interest in responding to stuff like this, just so you know.

Much love!

 

[Davy]

I have zero interest in responding to stuff like this, just so you know.

Much love!

I realize that, which is why those on the false Pre-trib theory are AFRAID to read what God's written Word actually says on this matter. And thus "strong delusion" is prepared by God for those who receive not the love of the Truth (i.e., His Word as written).

 

[Enoch111]

I am certain that Lord Jesus will have the last laugh when He returns after the coming false-Christ that comes first playing him with the power to deceive the whole world.

You are confusing the unbelieving world with Christians. Just goes to show how far off the rails you have gone.

 

[marks]

I realize that, which is why those on the false Pre-trib theory are AFRAID to

Maybe you are afraid to have a purely Scriptural discussion without all the falacies and presumption? Is that possible to do?

The Elect in Matthew 24 refers to the Jews. Gentiles would not be included in that terminology for another 20-30 years. Including the gentile church in those passages is not proper interpretation.

Any Jew at the time Jesus gave this prophecy, if you were to ask, Who is the Chosen, and who are the rest? Jews, and gentiles, without question.

Much love

 

[Davy]

You are confusing the unbelieving world with Christians. Just goes to show how far off the rails you have gone.

Then you FAIL to heed Christ's and His Apostle's warnings about a coming false-Messiah...

2 Cor 11:2-4
2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.
KJV

The "another Jesus" is who those on man's false Pre-trib Rapture doctrine are being prepared for. And that belief system is from "another spirit" like Paul warned.

So keep mocking the written Scriptures of God's Word, just so you can keep your false doctrines from men. You aren't mocking me, you are mocking God's written Word.

 

[Davy]

Maybe you are afraid to have a purely Scriptural discussion without all the falacies and presumption? Is that possible to do?

You're not serious at all. What do you think I have been presenting in posts, messages from Disneyland? Are you that BLINDED to God's written Word?

And it is God's written Word that I have posted which you are mocking with saying it's "falacies and presumption".

You CANNOT find even ONE Scripture written in God's Word that supports a rapture of the Church prior to the "great tribulation".

 

[Davy]

You are confusing the unbelieving world with Christians. Just goes to show how far off the rails you have gone.

And another thing, in Paul's warning against falling away per 2 Corinthians 11, he got that idea of presenting us to Christ as "a chaste virgin" directly from Isaiah 54 about blessed are the barren who's wombs never bare. Has anyone explained that parable to you pre-tribbers?

 

[marks]

with saying it's "falacies and presumption".

IF you are not able to recognize when you are presuming of others, and when you are posting fallacies, you won't be able to avoid posting the same in the future.

I've been adding these couple of posts to see if you can change your style, but it's not looking good.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Then you reveal you have not... read Apostle Paul's simple warnings in 2 Corinthians 11, nor Jesus' warnings in Matthew 24:23-26. So what are you, too chicken to check out those Scriptures? Are you AFRAID they might expose your beloved pre-trib rapture false prophets you have put your trust in? (And I am mocking them, not you. I want you to come to understanding God's Word as written, and not put blind trust in those men.)


A Revelation by Lord Jesus:

Rev 13:4-9
4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme His name, and His tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

9 If any man have an ear, let him hear.
KJV

The "dragon" title is simply another name for Satan per Rev.12:9.

Verse 7-8 is especially revealing what he is going to do at the end of this world, PRIOR to Christ's coming to gather us. "All that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world."

Christ's Church will still... be here on earth to go through that. That is especially why Lord Jesus gave His Church His Book of Revelation, so we'd prepare for these things towards the end just before His future return.

Nothing in this passage tells us the church is on the earth at that time.

Tell me . . . is a Christian's name written in the book of life?

Much love!

 

[Davy]

Do some study!!!​

A voice from the long past on Pre-tribulation Rapture​

As the time of the Rapture becomes closer and we see clearer signs of the nearness of the Tribulation the voice of Ephraim the Syrian comforts us in the knowledge that the Pre-tribulation Rapture is a valid eschatological belief for the church approaching the time of the tribulation.
On the Last Times, the Antichrist, and the End of the World, written by Ephraim the Syrian (sometimes spelled Ephrem), an early church father, who lived from A.D. 306–373.
“For all the saints and Elect of God are gathered, prior to the Tribulation that is to come, and are taken to the Lord lest they see the confusion that is to overwhelm the world because of our sins.”
“For the elect shall be gathered prior to the tribulation, so they shall not see the confusion and the great tribulation coming upon the unrighteous world.” === Pray you be counted worthy to escape and be counted worthy!!!

Those are just FALSE PATHS to mislead the Biblically illiterate away from what is written in God's Word about the subject. If they can get you away... from the Scriptures, and get you into chaotic unproven arguments that 'appear' to be on a scholarly level, then you might get sucked into their false strategy AGAINST the actual written Word of God!


Lord Jesus showed His coming to gather His Church will be AFTER... the tribulation:

Matt 24:29-31
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
KJV


Mark 13:24-27
24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
27 And then shall he send His angels, and shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.
KJV


Those two Scripture examples directly from our Lord Jesus just SCRAPS ALL OF MEN'S FALSE THEORY OF A PRE-TRIB RAPTURE. The deceived can say that as written is not really what is meant, or that the above Scripture is not meant for the Church, all they want, but again and again that Scripture 'as written' proofs those men to be liars against Jesus Christ and antichrists.

 

[Davy]

Fight against rapture and God's Word and you are left behind!!

Those who are left behind ACCORDING TO JESUS and not the false prophets you heed, means staying here waiting for Jesus' coming, doing His work.

In Luke 17:37 and Matthew 24:28, Jesus answered His disciple's question of 'where' the 1st one 'taken' would be 'taken' to. Jesus said wheresoever the dead carcase is, that's where the fowls will be gathered. Thus the pre-trib rapture false prophets are actually teaching their deceived believers to GO AFTER THE DEVIL'S HOST!