Pre-Trib Rapture Danger To Your Soul

[Cassandra]

“For all the saints and Elect of God are gathered, prior to the Tribulation that is to come, and are taken to the Lord lest they see the confusion that is to overwhelm the world because of our sins.”
“For the elect shall be gathered prior to the tribulation, so they shall not see the confusion and the great tribulation coming upon the unrighteous world.” === Pray you be counted worthy to escape and be counted worthy!!!

I asked chat about this. This is the reply:
"The quote you mentioned is often attributed to Ephraim the Syrian, an early church father who lived from AD 306 to 373. However, it's important to note that the authenticity of this quote is disputed among scholars.

The quote you provided is commonly associated with a work called "On the Last Times, the Antichrist, and the End of the World." This work is attributed to Ephraim the Syrian, but its authorship is not universally accepted. Some scholars believe that the work was likely composed by a different writer in the 6th century, while others attribute it to Ephraim. Due to this uncertainty, it is difficult to definitively attribute the quote to Ephraim the Syrian.

Furthermore, it's worth noting that the concept of a pre-tribulation gathering of saints is more commonly associated with later theological developments, particularly within certain branches of Christian eschatology. The specific idea of a pre-tribulation gathering of the elect is not a widely held belief among the early church fathers. Views on the timing and nature of the gathering of the saints varied among early Christian theologians.

 

[Davy]

Thank you for this. It shows that the believers of centuries ago believed in the per-tribulation Rapture. I am personally unsure of the timing of the Rapture, pre or mid.

The false theory of Amillennialism crept into the Christian Church in the 2nd century A.D. also, so does that make it true? Of course not. The Gnostic heretics crept into the Church in the 2nd century also, so the false doctrines of Amillennialism probably started with them.

 

[Davy]

Early 200 to 300 church fathers ==

A voice from the long past on Pre-tribulation Rapture​

As the time of the Rapture becomes closer and we see clearer signs of the nearness of the Tribulation the voice of Ephraim the Syrian comforts us in the knowledge that the Pre-tribulation Rapture is a valid eschatological belief for the church approaching the time of the tribulation.
On the Last Times, the Antichrist, and the End of the World, written by Ephraim the Syrian (sometimes spelled Ephrem), an early church father, who lived from A.D. 306–373.
“For all the saints and Elect of God are gathered, prior to the Tribulation that is to come, and are taken to the Lord lest they see the confusion that is to overwhelm the world because of our sins.”
“For the elect shall be gathered prior to the tribulation, so they shall not see the confusion and the great tribulation coming upon the unrighteous world.” === Pray you be counted worthy to escape and be counted worthy!!!

If one actually read what all Ephraim said, they'd discover that he actually believed a Post-tribulational rapture.

 

[Davy]

Fight against rapture and God's Word and you are left behind!!

Again, you FAIL to heed Jesus' answer per Luke 17:37 about the 1st one taken to where the fowls are gathered. We are stay in Christ working for Him all the way up to His future return AFTER the tribulation.

 

[Davy]

IF you are not able to recognize when you are presuming of others, and when you are posting fallacies, you won't be able to avoid posting the same in the future.

I've been adding these couple of posts to see if you can change your style, but it's not looking good.

Much love!

Now you are losing common sense with your words, you are so... lost with trying support the false pre-trib rapture theory from men.

 

[Davy]

That is the most contrived and illogical thing I've ever heard about eschatology. It's simply propaganda and has no basis.

Thus says one a Hitler style contrived statement like you just made against the written Scripture...

Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27 convicts your wrong support of the pre-trib rapture false prophets.

 

[Davy]

It says that his sheep know his voice and follow him, not that they cease belonging to him by getting the timing of the rapture wrong. I'm laughing.

And IF... you belong to Him, then you will HEED what He said in His Word as written, and stop listening to false prophets with their false pre-trib rapture lies.

You might try what Jesus said in Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27 first, which He gave to His Church about the end time SIGNS He was giving there.

 

[marks]

Now you are losing common sense with your words, you are so... lost with trying support the false pre-trib rapture theory from men.

I'm interested in civil and reasonable discussion, which I don't think I'm going to find here, so don't worry about it.

Much love!

 

[Davy]

Nothing in this passage tells us the church is on the earth at that time.

Tell me . . . is a Christian's name written in the book of life?

Much love!

I can quote passages all day long directly from God's written Word that do NOT specifically say stuff like, "Christ's Church is still here on earth", yet it is obvious per the Scripture CONTEXT they still are here on earth.

What Lord Jesus said in Revelation 16:15 within the 6th Vial timing to His Church is one such proof...

Rev 16:15-17
15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.

16 And He gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.

17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, "It is done."
KJV


That above PROVES beyond all doubt, that Lord Jesus does NOT come to gather His Church until that 7th Vial timing. And that TOTALLY DESTROYS any idea that He comes prior to the tribulation, as He also showed in the Matthew 24 and Mark 13 chapters I have quoted WHICH NONE HERE HAVE BEEN ABLE TO COUNTER!

 

[Davy]

I'm interested in civil and reasonable discussion, which I don't think I'm going to find here, so don't worry about it.

Much love!

Don't fib to me, you and I well know what you are interested in, and it ain't what Lord Jesus told you as written in His Word, since you DENY His teaching in Matthew 24 and Mark 13 where He specifically showed His coming to gather His Church is AFTER... the tribulation. That is real simple Scripture that is impossible to twist. And I don't care who one is, if they 'try' to twist it, I will declare their lie.

 

[Davy]

Furthermore, for you pre-tribbers out there, what Jesus showed in the Matthew 24:31 and Mark 13:27 verses about His gathering of His saints is a DIRECT PARALLEL to what Apostle Paul taught in 1 Thessalonians 4 about the gathering of the Church.

And truly what else is very sad about those on man's false pre-trib rapture theory, is how many of them don't actually know what all Paul taught there in 1 Thessalonians 4.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The false theory of Amillennialism crept into the Christian Church in the 2nd century A.D. also, so does that make it true? Of course not. The Gnostic heretics crept into the Church in the 2nd century also, so the false doctrines of Amillennialism probably started with them.

That's nonsense. Amillennialism is taught in scripture, so it originated well before that.

 

[Davy]

Look again at what Lord Jesus said in Rev.16:15 to His Church within the 6th Vial timing...

Rev 16:15-17
15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
16 And He gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.

17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, "It is done."
KJV

Do you recall what that "as a thief" idea is about that He taught? That helps seal this that He is then speaking to His Church STILL ON THE EARTH, AND NOT GATHERED YET.

In both Matthew 24 and Mark 13, Jesus used the idea of a thief breaking in to the day of His future coming.

Both Apostles Paul and Peter also used that "as a thief" metaphor to mark when the "day of the Lord" will happen on the last day of this world, which is when Jesus showed He comes to gather His Church.

 

[marks]

and it ain't what Lord Jesus told you as written in His Word, since you DENY His teaching in Matthew 24 and Mar

You are just having too much fun conversing with yourself, so I'll just step out of the way . . .

Much love!

 

[Davy]

I asked chat about this. This is the reply:
"The quote you mentioned is often attributed to Ephraim the Syrian, an early church father who lived from AD 306 to 373. However, it's important to note that the authenticity of this quote is disputed among scholars.

The quote you provided is commonly associated with a work called "On the Last Times, the Antichrist, and the End of the World." This work is attributed to Ephraim the Syrian, but its authorship is not universally accepted. Some scholars believe that the work was likely composed by a different writer in the 6th century, while others attribute it to Ephraim. Due to this uncertainty, it is difficult to definitively attribute the quote to Ephraim the Syrian.

Furthermore, it's worth noting that the concept of a pre-tribulation gathering of saints is more commonly associated with later theological developments, particularly within certain branches of Christian eschatology. The specific idea of a pre-tribulation gathering of the elect is not a widely held belief among the early church fathers. Views on the timing and nature of the gathering of the saints varied among early Christian theologians.

And that's actually the truth.

I have actually read some of what Ephraim said, and he pointed to belief on a post-trib gathering of the Church. So just like the pre-trib rapture preachers have no problem telling lies against Lord Jesus' teaching of a post-tribulational coming and gathering of the Church, likewise, they have no problem with trying push lies about fake early origins of a pre-trib rapture theory.

And what is truly... amazing, is how so many deceived brethren will just believe what those pre-trib rapture doctors say when it is so... easy to just read when Jesus showed His coming is to gather His Church after the tribulation. (Matthew 24:29-31; Mark 13:24-27; gathering is to Mount of Olives per Zechariah 14).

 

[Davy]

You are just having too much fun conversing with yourself, so I'll just step out of the way . . .

Much love!

You must be a glutton for punishment, is all I can say. Because I have simply run right over you with SCRIPTURE EVIDENCE against your trust in a false theory from men, the false pre-trib rapture theory.

Still can't provide a single verse to support your theory, eh?? And remember, you are the one come here to MY THREAD trying to claim I am telling falsehoods. So prove it.

 

[Davy]

Furthermore, about the history of the false pre-trib rapture doctrine. It was NEVER taught in a Christian Church prior to 1800's; in Great Britain was when it first was pushed by Edward Irving and John Nelson Darby.

Up to 1,800 years, the Christian Church taught and held to a post-tribulational coming of Christ Jesus and gathering of His Church.

Cyrus Scofield then took the pre-trib rapture doctrine to the Americas, and printed a KJV study Bible with preaching the theory in its margins. Scofield's Bible was funded by a rich man's private club of lawyers, bankers, and artists in New York city. And Scofield had a very shady past.

 

[David in NJ]

Maybe you are afraid to have a purely Scriptural discussion without all the falacies and presumption? Is that possible to do?

The Elect in Matthew 24 refers to the Jews. Gentiles would not be included in that terminology for another 20-30 years. Including the gentile church in those passages is not proper interpretation.

Any Jew at the time Jesus gave this prophecy, if you were to ask, Who is the Chosen, and who are the rest? Jews, and gentiles, without question.

Much love

my dear Brother marks,

God's Elect as defined by God (know your abc's and count 1,2,3)

a.) Gospel for all Nations thru Abraham = Galatians ch3
So also, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”
Understand, then, that those who have faith are sons of Abraham.
The Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and foretold the gospel to Abraham: “All nations will be blessed through you.”So those who have faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.

b.) Salvation for all Nations = Isaiah 49:6
‘It is too small a thing that You should be My Servant
To raise up the tribes of Jacob,
And to restore the preserved ones of Israel;
I will also give You as a light to the Gentiles,
That You should be My salvation to the ends of the earth.’ ”

c.) Gospel Light to all peoples/tongues/tribes/nations = John ch1
the True Light which gives light to every man coming into the world.
He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him. But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

1.) God determines the Elect = 1 Peter 1:2
elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father,

2.) HOLY SPIRIT determines the Elect = 1 Peter 1:2
elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in sanctification of the Spirit,

3.) Sinless BLOOD of Messiah determines the Elect = 1 Peter 1:2
elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in sanctification of the Spirit,
for obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ:

NEVER separate Jew from Gentile in the Gospel = it is sin and it is antichrist

Peace my Brother marks who is Beloved of God thru the Precious Blood of Christ and sanctification in the Spirit chosen by the Father - amen

 

[Davy]

my dear Brother marks,

God's Elect as defined by God (know your abc's and count 1,2,3)

a.) Gospel for all Nations thru Abraham = Galatians ch3
So also, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”
Understand, then, that those who have faith are sons of Abraham.
The Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and foretold the gospel to Abraham: “All nations will be blessed through you.”So those who have faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.

b.) Salvation for all Nations = Isaiah 49:6
‘It is too small a thing that You should be My Servant
To raise up the tribes of Jacob,
And to restore the preserved ones of Israel;
I will also give You as a light to the Gentiles,
That You should be My salvation to the ends of the earth.’ ”

c.) Gospel Light to all peoples/tongues/tribes/nations = John ch1
the True Light which gives light to every man coming into the world.
He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him. But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

1.) God determines the Elect = 1 Peter 1:2
elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father,

2.) HOLY SPIRIT determines the Elect = 1 Peter 1:2
elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in sanctification of the Spirit,

3.) Sinless BLOOD of Messiah determines the Elect = 1 Peter 1:2
elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in sanctification of the Spirit,
for obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ:

NEVER separate Jew from Gentile in the Gospel = it is sin and it is antichrist

Peace my Brother marks who is Beloved of God thru the Precious Blood of Christ and sanctification in the Spirit chosen by the Father - amen

Marks is just regurgitating what the false pre-trib rapture doctors tell him to believe. And one of the things they preach is to DISREGARD Lord Jesus' teaching of the SIGNS of the end He gave to His Church in His Olivet discourse. They instead lie, and claim that was written only for Jews.

But what is really FUNNY, is the false pre-trib rapture preachers will often quote Jesus from Matthew 24 and Mark 13 about HIS COMING, and that no man knows the day or hour! So actually, anyone who stops to think about what those false pre-trib rapture preachers say, they reveal their falseness even by their own hypocrisy.

 

[amigo de christo]

my dear Brother marks,

God's Elect as defined by God (know your abc's and count 1,2,3)

a.) Gospel for all Nations thru Abraham = Galatians ch3
So also, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”
Understand, then, that those who have faith are sons of Abraham.
The Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and foretold the gospel to Abraham: “All nations will be blessed through you.”So those who have faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.

b.) Salvation for all Nations = Isaiah 49:6
‘It is too small a thing that You should be My Servant
To raise up the tribes of Jacob,
And to restore the preserved ones of Israel;
I will also give You as a light to the Gentiles,
That You should be My salvation to the ends of the earth.’ ”

c.) Gospel Light to all peoples/tongues/tribes/nations = John ch1
the True Light which gives light to every man coming into the world.
He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him. But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

1.) God determines the Elect = 1 Peter 1:2
elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father,

2.) HOLY SPIRIT determines the Elect = 1 Peter 1:2
elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in sanctification of the Spirit,

3.) Sinless BLOOD of Messiah determines the Elect = 1 Peter 1:2
elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in sanctification of the Spirit,
for obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ:

NEVER separate Jew from Gentile in the Gospel = it is sin and it is antichrist

Peace my Brother marks who is Beloved of God thru the Precious Blood of Christ and sanctification in the Spirit chosen by the Father - amen

IT was determined by GOD that the world would have to be saved by believing in CHRIST JESUS
Even fore the world was or anything that is was , JESUS WAS and IS . GOD IS HIS WORD and HIS WORD IS HE .
GOD knew how to save the WORLD . He would have to do it himself , though the WORD that became flesh .
SO that all who DO BELIEVE would be saved . I shudder in total terror , however , for those who DENY HIM
For those who huddle hand in hand and say GOD IS LOVE and yet twist this love
to honor this ideal that other religoins are fine as is . SO long as we have this do good love to one another .
I SHUDDER IN TOTAL FEAR for that ANTI CHRIST MINDSET , not that i am afraid of it . BUT MY FEAR
is for the souls who bought into the lie of the false love that cometh of and came of THE DRAGON who has made
the path to GOD VERY , and do i mean VERY BROAD . BUT that is because its not a path to GOD
rather its a path to Worship He who desired to be AS GOD . THE DRAGON .
KNOWING THE TERROR of the WRATH OF GOD that will soon strike this world
WE MUST PERSAUDE MEN , YA BETTER have naught to do with a false love , rather PREACH THE TRUE LOVE OF GOD
which IS JESUS CHRIST , THAT ONE MUST BELIEVE IN HIM and to offer NO false hope to this world .
For false hope and false love , cannot SAVE THEM . PEROID . I STAND STUANCH and RIGID
and refuse to take one foot of of this path that i am on . JESUS CHRIST will be preached
and let me warn and remind us of this as well , IF YA jesus dont sound like the one in the bible , IT CANNOT SAVE .
If your leaders dont resemble and sound like the apostels in that bible , FLEE THEM ALL and NEVER , ever , EVER LOOK back .
And take all you can with ya as you leave that place .