Pre Tribulation Rapture

[Keraz]

Pretrib rapture a fable? Disagree.
Rapture "to Heaven"? Agree.

Glory to God,
Taken

I realize that sort of opinion is the best a 'rapture to heaven' believer can present.
Not having ang real Biblical proof of that theory, should be a concern for 'rapture' believers, but it seems to not worry them.

What they need to know is there is an alternative to the idea of being taken away from all that must take place during the end times and it will be amazing, when we Christians fulfil our destiny of being the people God always wanted in the holy Land. In our heritage: Ephesians 3:6, Romans 8:16-18, Romans 9:24-26, +

We are all believers in the Lord Jesus, He is our Savior and Redeemer. We are told that we must stand firm in our faith and my concern is for those who want Jesus to remove them from the earth, when we should be prepared to endure trials and to serve Him in the coming Kingdom on earth.

 

[Naomi25]

The Videos are a challenge to you. You can't answer them.

No...they would be a challenge if I accepted their validity here, which I don't. If I wanted to know what Pastor Blogs or whoever thought on an issue, I would search out his site and find out. On this forum I seek to interact with members and find out what THEY think scripture says. If they want to suppliment some of their thinking with other people's thoughts, secondarily, fine, but if you just want to replace your thoughts for theirs....not interested, and definitely not a challenge. One cannot be challenged by what they consider an intellectual cop-out.

 

[Taken]

I realize that sort of opinion is the best a 'rapture to heaven' believer can present.

Let me clarify my response to your comment.

You are saying No Rapture.
I disagree.

You are saying To Heaven.
I agree. Those Raptured Are Not Caught Up To Heaven.

Not having ang real Biblical proof of that theory, should be a concern for 'rapture' believers, but it seems to not worry them.

"REAL" Biblical Proof?
I would disagree with you.
Rather that there is "REAL" knowledge given In Scriptures; and I TRUST to Believe the Knowledge Given IS TRUE.
And...
The Understanding of the Knowledge IS paramount to Be Gods Understanding...
(Rather than Mans Understanding).
And...
Gods Understanding IS a Gift from God forward TO, a man WHO HAS Trust to Believe the Knowledge Given IN Scripture
And...
Become Converted "IN Christ".

What they need to know is there is an alternative to the idea of being taken away from all that must take place during the end times

And...
What is YOUR alternative?
For What Purpose Shall a Converted man REMAIN on Earth during the END DAYS of Gods Tribulation?
What EXACTLY Shall a Converted man BE DOING "on Earth", during Gods Great Tribulation in the end times?

and it will be amazing, when we Christians fulfil our destiny of being the people God always wanted in the holy Land. In our heritage: Ephesians 3:6, Romans 8:16-18, Romans 9:24-26, +

Elaborate ~
You have proclaimed an ALTERNATATIVE...

In Brief...
I believe...
Converted men shall be Caught Up to the Clouds.
I believe...
That Occurs just BEFORE the end of days Tribulation Begins.
I believe...
The end of days Tribulation is a SEVEN YEAR Period.
I believe....
There are Major distinctions (phases so to speak) during the End of days Tribulation.
I believe...
Those distinctions are revealed: and called:
(SEALS, TRUMPETS, VIALS).
I believe...
..During the SEALS; Many who Believe IN GOD, but not Christ Jesus, Shall turn to belief in Jesus, and become soul saved, spirit quickened, and Bodily (Physically) killed.
..During the TRUMPETS; Some men will Continue to be Converted in Christ, many will not. And Consequences for rejection shall reign upon men ON the earth.
..During the VIALS; SEPARATION of the Divided (ie those With thee Lord God FROM those Without thee Lord God) shall be Effected.

Also, is Holy Angels SEPARATED from FALLEN ANGELS.

THEN...AFTER...Shall Christ Thee Lord Jesus RETURN to Earth WITH HIS KINGDOM and WITH HIS SAINTS, to Rule for 1,000 years...
(Before the NEXT Major change).

So, ACCORDING TO Your Alternative...
IS there an end of Days Tribulation?
IF So, what is it's Time length?
IF So, what is On Earth during that Time length?
IF So, what are the Converted DOING?

We are all believers in the Lord Jesus,

Well, "no" not all are....but I presume you are speaking specifically of the Converted IN Christ.

He is our Savior and Redeemer.

Savior? Uh huh.
AND... (Additionally, beyond Savior)
Redeemer?

What does that (RedeemER) Specifically mean to you?

We are told that "we" must "stand firm in our faith"

"We"...
Elaborate.
Identify "We" specifically.
A Converted man IN Christ?
Or
A man who Believes IN God, but Not Christ Jesus the Messiah?
Or both?

"Stand firm in our faith"...
Elaborate.
HOW does a Converted man IN CHRIST;
...stand firm?
HOW does a Believer IN God, (but not Christ Jesus)..
...stand firm?

and my concern is for those who want Jesus to remove them from the earth, when we should be prepared to endure trials and to serve Him in the coming Kingdom on earth.

My Concern is:
You Skip Time frames.
You say "we", when there is consideration of
...of Believers ONLY in God (ie particularly Jews), and Believers In Both God and Christ Jesus (ie particularly Gentiles)....but yet skip past that consideration and the time-line of WHEN the Jews are brought into Belief IN Christ Jesus, or HOW.
You Imply the Converted Shall be On Earth (DURING Destruction UPON the Earth, not seen since the days of Noah and the Great Flood)....And your purpose is for them to SUFFER DURING the Destruction? WHY?

Are you Unaware...Converted men Suffer daily at the hands of Unbelieving men?

And for what reason Do you believe God has appointed the Converted TO SUFFER during Gods end of days WRATH upon the Earth and the Unbelieving?

Do you not Find the comparison between the The First MAJOR destruction upon the earth...
Ie...the FLOOD....and WHERE the Faithful and Saved "WERE" During Destruction UPON the Earth?

Ummm...THEY were Lifted UP Above the Earth. And so also is it "REALLY" taught in Scripture...the Saved and Faithful (TO GOD and THEE Lord Jesus), shall BE LIFTED UP Above the Earth.

Still interested in you answering from your persepective, the questions I posed.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[07-07-07]

The Scriptures are clear that there will be a Rapture; the timing is the hidden mystery. I tend to lean toward the 7th Trumpet (last trump) Rapture. Coincidentally, isn't it interesting that during these last of the last days that the U.S president's last name is Trump? And he is working with Israel like no other president. Trump is a pretty rare last name, too, but that's just how our God works. The trumpet is sounding! Are your garments white and clean to go out to meet the Bridegroom? Are you a wise or foolish virgin?

1 John 3
[1] Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.[2] Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.[3] And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

 

[CoreIssue]

No...they would be a challenge if I accepted their validity here, which I don't. If I wanted to know what Pastor Blogs or whoever thought on an issue, I would search out his site and find out. On this forum I seek to interact with members and find out what THEY think scripture says. If they want to suppliment some of their thinking with other people's thoughts, secondarily, fine, but if you just want to replace your thoughts for theirs....not interested, and definitely not a challenge. One cannot be challenged by what they consider an intellectual cop-out.

Regardless of format, is every debate a challenge to accept the other person's argument?

I post videos of people who agree with my position.

 

[Taken]

The Scriptures are clear that there will be a Rapture;

Agree

the timing is the hidden mystery.

Disagree.
Day and Hour, Yes a hidden mystery.

I tend to lean toward the 7th Trumpet (last trump) Rapture.

Last Trump, I would say is a Resurrection of Bodies, that :
Came into belief IN Christ During the:
SEALS and TRUMPS
and:
were Bodily Killed During those Days;
Because
They refused the Mark of the Beast, and Instead Confessed their Belief IN Christ Jesus.

RAPTURE Applies to Christs' Church ~
Believers who Became Converted IN Christ, before the End Days Tribulation.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Keraz]

Let me clarify my response to your comment.
You are saying No Rapture.
I disagree.
You are saying To Heaven.
I agree. Those Raptured Are Not Caught Up To Heaven.

Well, we do agree that there will be a rising to meet the Lord at His coming. As described in 1 Thess 4:17 and Matthew 24:31
We humans never go to live in heaven, but those who remain alive at the Return, will be spiritually transported to where He is and be with Him for the Millennium. On earth.

What is YOUR alternative?
For What Purpose Shall a Converted man REMAIN on Earth during the END DAYS of Gods Tribulation?
What EXACTLY Shall a Converted man BE DOING "on Earth", during Gods Great Tribulation in the end times?

I did explain this. We are the Lord's witnesses; Isaiah 43:10, John 15:27 and His Light to the nations, Isaiah 49:3-8, Matthew 5:14-16 We will be the people God always wanted in His Land, but has never yet had.

Proof that the people of God are present in the holy Land at the time of the GT, is in Daniel 7:25 and Revelation 13:7

What does that (RedeemER) Specifically mean to you?

A redeemer is a person who pays off your debt. Jesus did that for our sin debt to God.
I also believe that we Christians are the Israel of God. Galatians 6:14-16 says so. Therefore the sacrifice of Jesus provided a redemption for those of natural Israel and for all who would accept it.

We"...
Elaborate.
Identify "We" specifically.
A Converted man IN Christ?
Or
A man who Believes IN God, but Not Christ Jesus the Messiah?
Or both?

God sees into the heart, He knows a truly sincere person, whether he has heard of Jesus or not. Romans 1:19-21

"Stand firm in our faith"...
Elaborate.
HOW does a Converted man IN CHRIST;
...stand firm?
HOW does a Believer IN God, (but not Christ Jesus)..
...stand firm?

What God requires of us is sincere faith in Him and trust in His promises of eventual Eternal life. John 3:16 Abraham provided the example.
Millions have displayed this faith and been martyred. God keeps their souls under the heavenly Altar, their names are Written in the Book Of Life and at the GWT Judgement, Revelation 20:11-15, they will receive immortality.

My Concern is:
You Skip Time frames.
You say "we", when there is consideration of
...of Believers ONLY in God (ie particularly Jews), and Believers In Both God and Christ Jesus (ie particularly Gentiles)....but yet skip past that consideration and the time-line of WHEN the Jews are brought into Belief IN Christ Jesus, or HOW.
You Imply the Converted Shall be On Earth (DURING Destruction UPON the Earth, not seen since the days of Noah and the Great Flood)....And your purpose is for them to SUFFER DURING the Destruction? WHY?

We are plainly told that we must face trials and testing. 1 Peter 4:12, +
Hebrews 12:7-12 puts it plainly and those who avoid this are not God's children.

Re the Jews; many prophesies tell us that they will be virtually wiped out on the terrible Day of the Lord's wrath. Isaiah 22:14, Jeremiah 10:18, Zechariah 13:7-9, + Only a remnant will be saved Romans 9:27

And for what reason Do you believe God has appointed the Converted TO SUFFER during Gods end of days WRATH upon the Earth and the Unbelieving?

Where does the Bible say we who trust in the Lord, will suffer God's wrath?
We may have to suffer Satan's wrath, allowed by God to test us.
But regarding the great and terrible Day of the Lord's vengeance and wrath against the nations; we are told to stand firm in our faith and trust in God's protection. Joel 2:32, Acts 2:21

You Taken; seem to have been deceived by false teachings, Jesus said we must take care to not be deceived, but Paul says that many will fall for mans fables and will block their ears to the truths. 2 Timothy 4:3-4
I ask that you really, seriously consider the possibility that you have believed teachings from people you have trusted, that were in fact, in error and do not have a solid Biblical foundation.

 

[CoreIssue]

Pre-tribulation rapture in the 300s A.D.

 

[Taken]

Well, we do agree that there will be a rising to meet the Lord at His coming.

No.
I believe the Lord shall descend from heaven to the clouds....
And His Church shall rise up to Meet Him in the Air.
I believe the Lords SECOND Coming is specifically TO EARTH.

We humans never go to live in heaven, but those who remain alive at the Return, will be spiritually transported to where He is and be with Him for the Millennium. On earth.

Your comment makes no sense.
Transported to where He is, at His Return?
At His RETURN, He will be ON Earth.

I did explain this. We are the Lord's witnesses; Isaiah 43:10, John 15:27 and His Light to the nations, Isaiah 49:3-8, Matthew 5:14-16

So you believe, The Converted IN Christ, WILL BE ON Earth DURING the End of Days Tribulation....WITNESSING, TESTIFYING of Christ?

To WHOM?
To Those with the Mark of the Beast?
To Jews?

What do you think Converted men have been doing for the last 2,000 + years?

Did Faithful Noah Remain ON EARTH and Witness and Testify of God, While the earth was Flooding?

Proof that the people of God are present in the holy Land at the time of the GT, is in Daniel 7:25 and Revelation 13:7

No Kidding. People of God....JEWS!
And God SENDS to the JEWS "His Witnesses".
And God SENDS to the TRIBES of ISRAEL, "His 144,000" Israelites to His People to Hear of Christ Jesus so they may Believe.
And Gods SENDS to the Earth "His Angel" to speak the Word of God TO the World.

Nowhere does Scripture Teach the Gentiles Converted IN Christ, Remain on Earth During the Great Tribulation to Be Witnesses, Teachers, or Testifiers of Christ Jesus, TO Gods People Israel.

A redeemer is a person who pays off your debt. Jesus did that for our sin debt to God.

No debate, Jesus PAID our Price for Redemption, with His Pure Blood.
And A redeemer IS ALSO ENTITLED to CLAIM, TAKE possession of that Which He HAS REDEEMED....And WHY, When Jesus Descends to the Clouds; He has the Authority and Power to CALL UP TO HIM, Every single person WHO has Accepted His GIft (of Him paying their DEBT) and His Grace of Forgiveness, and His GIft of their soul restoration, and His Gift of quickening their spirit....that they RISE UP TO HIM, in their glorified Body.

I also believe that we Christians are the Israel of God. Galatians 6:14-16 says so. Therefore the sacrifice of Jesus provided a redemption for those of natural Israel and for all who would accept it.

I think that is an INDEPT subject.
Briefly;
Israel is Gods People.
The Converted ARE Christ's Church.
Don't believe ALL are YET ONE.

What God requires of us is sincere faith in Him and trust in His promises of eventual Eternal life.

God requires ALL MEN to BELIEVE IN HIM and CHRIST JESUS.

Currently that is NOT the CASE.

Those who BELIEVE IN GOD (and NOT Christ Jesus), absolutely have to VIA THEIR OWN POWER KEEP STRONG IN THEIR FAITH TO GOD.

Those who Believe IN God AND Christ Jesus, AND have Heartfully Submitted UNTO Christ Jesus....RECEIVE the HOLY SPIRIT...
And it is the POWER of the Holy Spirit that KEEPS them FOREVER in Faithfulness to God and Christ Jesus.

We are plainly told that we must face trials and testing.

No kidding. Every single day, Believers in God, and in God and Christ are wrongly accused, imprisoned, tortured, made fun of, homes burned, churches burned, ousted and killed for their beliefs in God and in God and Christ Jesus.

You think that is NOT facing trials and testing?

Re the Jews; many prophesies tell us that they will be virtually wiped out on the terrible Day of the Lord's wrath. Isaiah 22:14, Jeremiah 10:18, Zechariah 13:7-9, + Only a remnant will be saved Romans 9:27

Absolutely...BODILY KILLED.
However FIRST the Majority of Jews, LISTEN to Gods Two Witnesses IN Jerusalem, who TESTIFY for 3 1/2 Years of Christ Jesus.
And they ALSO LISTEN to the 144,000 Israelites God sends to teach them Christ Jesus.
Which is to SAY, THEY BECOME CONVERTED;
Forgiven for not Trusting In Christ Jesus.
Soul Saved for Turning to Believe.
spirit Quickened for Turning to Believe.
AND...YES Bodily KILLED...

And WHEN the Lord RETURNS TO EARTH...THEY are RISEN UP (at the Last Trump) IN THEIR Glorified Bodies...and WITH the Lord IS HIS Reward for them....Their Saved Souls and Quickened Spirits that WENT TO HEAVEN, when their Bodies are Killed.

Where does the Bible say we who trust in the Lord, will suffer God's wrath?

It doesn't say "THE CONVERTED" shall suffer Gods Wrath.

Apparently you are Unaware, the End days Tribulation IS:
The Days of;
The Wrath of the Lamb.
And
The Wrath of God.

You are the one saying "the Converted" in Christ WILL BE ON THE EARTH in those days......IF you are ON the EARTH, you ARE being SUBJECTED to the;
The Wrath of the Lamb,
And
The Wrath of God.

We may have to suffer Satan's wrath, allowed by God to test us.

There is no "wrath of Satan" !!

Satan's power is to TRICK and DECEIVE.

And the END of DAYS WRATH, is Gods POWER and VENGEANCE coming upon the Earth and Effecting men.

God Sends the Earthquakes, the Lightening, the Plagues, the Sores, etc.

But regarding the great and terrible Day of the Lord's vengeance and wrath against the nations; we are told to stand firm in our faith and trust in God's protection. Joel 2:32, Acts 2:21

You appear to NOT know when Scripture is Speaking to JEWS who believe in God, and NOT Christ....
And the Converted who believe Both in God and Christ Jesus....

There IS a BIG DIFFERENCE...

A Converted man does not have to TRY REALLY HARD to KEEP His FAITH....
A Converted man IS KEPT by the POWER of God.

A man who is TRYING to KEEP his FAITH...
Is Relying on his own "power", NOT the Indwelling POWER of the HOLY SPIRIT.

Jews are told to STAND FIRM, and TRUST God.....Since you have not Noticed they DO not Broadly HAVE the Indwelling Spirit of God....(Some DO, calling themselves Messanic Jews)...but the Majority do NOT.

You Taken; seem to have been deceived by false teachings,

Oh good Grief, aren't you the All Knowing one! Ha!

You quote scripture AS IF, the ONLY one being taught knowledge IS a Converted man. "We this, and We that".

Jesus said we must take care to not be deceived,

"WE WHO" ?
The "WE" of 2,000 years ago who were JUST for the first time hearing of Jesus? And had not YET become Converted?

Of course an Unconverted man must take care to not be deceived.

You don't seriously believe ANYONE can DECEIVE a Converted man and RIP that man out of the Hands of God....Do you?

but Paul says that many will fall for mans fables and will block their ears to the truths. 2 Timothy 4:3-4

Many "WHO" ?
The Ones WHO, have not yet Converted?
Because there were MEN 2,000 years ago, up to this day it continues....that Men SHOP around for a RELIGION to Believe....
Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, Tao, blah, blah...
Today...it's a Hollymud, Celebrity, Worldly "THING TO DO"....get a Guru, designer sheet and be with the hip crowd with the Latest RELIGIOUS "FASHION" !!

Yeah, not news. And does not APPLY to a man Converted in Christ.

I ask that you really, seriously consider the possibility that you have believed teachings from people you have trusted, that were in fact, in error and do not have a solid Biblical foundation.

Perhaps you should take your own advise.
Apparently that IS what YOU have done.

I have only admitted to Scripture and Jesus Christ being my Teacher....so why you presume otherwise is edging on your own imagination.

I am curious for you to HIGHLIGHT exactly what you think is this DECEPTION that you accuse me of.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Keraz]

Your comment makes no sense.
Transported to where He is, at His Return?
At His RETURN, He will be ON Earth.

Just as I said: on earth, where Jesus will reign as King for 1000 years.
As for who is deceived about what God has planned for His people in the end times, soon to happen events will show the truth.
I will freely admit that I cannot grasp the full implications of it all, but I reject any false and unbiblical theories.

Yeah, not news. And does not APPLY to a man Converted in Christ.

Jesus statement in Matthew 24:4-5 plainly shows that Christians can be misled.
Matthew 24:10 At that time, [the end of the Church age] many will fall from their faith.....

And just because you believe in a doctrine that is supported by many, it does not prove it is true or must happen.

 

[Naomi25]

Regardless of format, is every debate a challenge to accept the other person's argument?

I post videos of people who agree with my position.

I wonder...If I started posting numerous videos of Amillennial preachers doing their thing, would you take the time to watch them all and then answer them intently...apart from doing your usual..."wrong!"?? (so convincing, by the way!)
Either way, I don't really care...I was just pointing out that people are probably not going to wade through them...but, by all means, continue on if it floats your boat.

 

[Taken]

Just as I said: on earth, where Jesus will reign as King for 1000 years.

You are saying...Bodies are being TRANSPORTED to Earth to reign with Jesus in His Earthly Kingdom.
Nothing says, Bodies that Become Converted, DURING the Tribulation....LEAVE THE EARTH!

I will freely admit that I cannot grasp the full implications of it all,

I agree, you do not.

but I reject any false and unbiblical theories.

You yourself have already admitted to referencing Scripture that you do not believe is REAL.
Seems it is you who can not distinguish what is true or what is false.

Jesus statement in Matthew 24:4-5 plainly shows that Christians can be misled.

Christians?

Christians are not Mentioned.
"His" disciples...
And
"The" disciples...
Are mentioned....
NO ONE Jesus is speaking to HAD Yet Been Converted.

So absolutely, MEN who are Following Jesus' Teachings....and are NOT YET CONVERTED...
CAN BE MISLED.

It happened In Jesus' Day and has been Happening for the Last 2,000 Years...that men Start Following after Jesus' Teaching...do not Become Converted...and FALL AWAY...
(Judas thee most FAMOUS Example)!

Matthew 24:10 At that time, [the end of the Church age] many will fall from their faith.....

No kidding. What does that have to do with a Converted man? Nothing.

And just because you believe in a doctrine that is supported by many, it does not prove it is true or must happen.

What I believe is SUPPORTED BY MANY?
No it ISN'T.
It is SUPPORTED By the Word of God and BELIEVED BY "FEW".

I have NOTHING to PROVE.
I believe the Word of God.
I Trust MY TEACHER, Christ Jesus.

Islam is the fastest growing religion in the World.
And there are MANY U.S. Citizens rallying daily to Advocate for an Influx of Islamists to Enter and Reside in the U.S.
Unconverted (IN Christ) U.S. Citizens having been Exposed to Christ's Teachings ARE falling from the Faith and Converting to Islam.

Yes, MANY WHO have Heard of Christ, BUT NOT Converted IN Christ, shall be TESTED and DECEIVED and FALL AWAY from Faith IN Christ.

Even you, are promoting, to NOT TRUST Scripture, (based on your own beliefs, per your own words.....that YOU challenge if Scripture is "REAL".)

And YOUR Accusations....For me to Believe Scripture, YOU CLAIM is a Deception.

Astounding ~ For you to be speaking of DECEPTION WHILE, promoting the one trusting the Word of God is Deceived.

I agree, you do not grasp the implication of what you do.

And IFY; your words and actions have NO influence to waver my faith In thee Lord God, or What He has prepared for me.

And IFY; what the Lord God has prepared For the End of Days Tribulation, IS HIS WRATH, UPON the Earth and Men of the Earth who have REJECTED Him....
And Christ's Church, IS NOT Subject to the Lord Gods End of days WRATH!
Christ's Church SHALL BE lifted UP Above the Earth, Above the Destruction UPON the Earth.....Just as Scripture Fortells, it shall be the Same as IN Noah's Day, when he and his family WAS SAVED....so shall the SAVED be Lifted up, while the earth is being AGAIN destroyed.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Keraz]

Christ's Church SHALL BE lifted UP Above the Earth, Above the Destruction UPON the Earth.....Just as Scripture Fortells, it shall be the Same as IN Noah's Day, when he and his family WAS SAVED....so shall the SAVED be Lifted up, while the earth is being AGAIN destroyed.
Quote Taken

Nowhere does the Bible say this.
Carry on in your fanciful notions, but you will be in for a surprise when the events of the end times do happen.

 

[Taken]

PRE TRIBULATION RAPTURE <---> OP

YES, Applicable "for" the "PRE" prepared!

ARE 'you' PRE - prepared?

ARE 'you' Forgiven...OF Christ?
ARE 'you' Bodily Dead....IN Christ?
ARE 'you' Soul Restored...BY Christ?
ARE 'you" Spirit Quickened...BY Christ?

IF 'you' ARE;
then you ARE Converted..IN Christ

And the Lord has PREPARED a PLACE FOR 'you' WITH Him "ABOVE the EARTH"...
While His WRATH and Gods WRATH shall Become UNLEASHED "upon the Earth" in the End of Days Tribulation.

IF 'you' ARE, "NOT" prepared....
'Your' Destiny is also REVEALED...

"You" shall DIE "in your sins".
"You" shall BE "Separated" from thee Lord God, and thereafter, WAIT, for Judgement.

And "IF" you SHOULD Be, still bodily Alive, WHEN the Time of the Great Tribulation Arrives....
"You" shall Experience the Wrath of the Lamb, and the Wrath of God....
"You" shall Experience SUCH WRATH(S)...
Partially...."IF" you choose to BECOME Prepared IN Christ, DURING the Great Tribulation..
Or
Fully..."IF" you continue to REJECT Christ, DURING the Great Tribulation...and your Destiny SEALED, to be SEPARATED FROM thee Lord God.

Praise and Glory to thee Great Lord God Almighty, WHO has Given US, Who Trust to Believe, and Become Converted, HIS WORD, that He Does NOT APPOINT, His Converted IN Christ; to be SUBJECT TO His WRATH.

Taken

 

[CoreIssue]

I wonder...If I started posting numerous videos of Amillennial preachers doing their thing, would you take the time to watch them all and then answer them intently...apart from doing your usual..."wrong!"?? (so convincing, by the way!)
Either way, I don't really care...I was just pointing out that people are probably not going to wade through them...but, by all means, continue on if it floats your boat.

I would.

The irony here as you think they would not listen to the videos but are actually taking the time to read your long meandering posts.

 

[CoreIssue]

 

[CoreIssue]

 

[Keraz]

I would.

The irony here as you think they would not listen to the videos but are actually taking the time to read your long meandering posts.

What we wait for, but never get; from you, Taken and other pre-trib rapture pushers, is real, undeniable scriptural proofs of that belief.
The reason you don't provide such proof, we know very well; is because there isn't any.
You are our Christian brethren and our desire is for you to put aside false teachings and believe what the Bible does actually tell us.

Re videos; I rarely watch them, even then skip most of it. I never put them up myself, but I do copy, usually condensed; writings of other people, who explain a belief in a better way than I could.
I do appreciate Naomi's posts, I don't agree with all she says, but her posts are clear and eminently readable.

 

[Naomi25]

I would.

The irony here as you think they would not listen to the videos but are actually taking the time to read your long meandering posts.

I think perhaps the real irony here is how I, someone who disagrees sharply with Dispensationalism, nevertheless will often point out HOW you could be making your case so much powerfully...with the use of scripture or your own time and effort. And in response you post other peoples work and laugh at my 'meandering'. It bothers me not if others are reading this, I think that is sort of the point...its a discussion forum.
I don't think you've every truly understood me. While I most certainly disagree with Dispensationalism, I do not despise people who believe in it. In point of fact I enjoy engaging in theological debate with them...scripture coming to bear with scripture, as that is where I believe truth lies and can be found. What I find confusing with you is, no matter how many times I've asked you to rebuff my thoughts with scripture, you do not. You rebuff it plenty with disdain and opinion, but those are things everyone has...are we not here to discuss and find out what the bible says?
There comes a point where one must suppose that a tiger cannot change his stripes. It seems to me you enjoy lashing about you with criticisms of those who differ in thought from you, but do not intend to take the time to prove it. And do you know what that says? It says you don't think anyone you're conversing with is worth the time or the effort. So...perhaps consider...whenever you ask for someone to take the time, or effort, to back up anything they have said...why should they...and if they do...what that difference shows and if you should return the courtesy.

 

[Enoch111]

Nowhere can I see a scripture that that says God will take His people to live in heaven.

If you are familiar with the Bible then there is no way that you have not seen passages that say God will take His children to Heaven (or the New Jerusalem). Indeed all the OT and NT saints who have passed on are in Heaven at this very moment.