Premillennialism contradicts scripture (1 Corinthians 15:50-54) by having mortal flesh and blood inheriting the kingdom of God when Jesus returns.

[Taken]

Premillennialism contradicts scripture (1 Corinthians 15:50-54) by having mortal flesh and blood inheriting the kingdom of God when Jesus returns.​

False narrative claim.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

My intent is to avoid defending my position on this subject here at the risk of having this thread shut down. Perhaps it is best to explain my meaning and then move on.

The doctrine of the Trinity, which is widely accepted in mainstream Christianity, teaches that God exists as three persons—Father, Son (Jesus), and Holy Spirit—who are distinct yet of the same divine essence.

I see no biblical evidence to support the idea that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are of the same essence in the way that the Nicene Creed defines "essence."

When the developers of the Nicene Creed used the term "essence" (Greek: ousia), they meant something quite different from how the word is commonly used today. In modern language, "essence" often refers to the fundamental nature or defining characteristics of something—like the essence of a good story or the essence of vanilla in baking.

However, in the context of the Nicene Creed, ousia was a philosophical term used to describe the divine substance or being of God. The Creed was formulated in 325 AD at the First Council of Nicaea to address the controversy surrounding Arianism, which claimed that Jesus was created and not of the same divine nature as God the Father. To counter this, the Creed declared that Jesus was "of one essence with the Father" (homoousios tō Patri), meaning that Jesus and the Father share the same divine nature—fully God, not a lesser or created being.

The concept of essence in the Nicene Creed is similar to how the doctrine of the Real Presence in the Eucharist is understood. In Catholic theology, the Real Presence refers to the belief that Jesus is truly present—body, blood, soul, and divinity—in the Eucharist, even though the outward appearance of bread and wine remains unchanged.

I don't accept the philosophical concept that there is an essence of a thing, "what it truly is," beyond what our senses perceive, as in the case of the Real Presence. I don't believe that the bread and wine maintain their physical appearance, yet their true reality—their essence—has been transformed into the presence of Christ. The Bible doesn't teach this philosophy or anything like it.

Jesus is God, not because he is made of the same stuff as the Father, but because he shares "representational sameness" as the Father. I can explain further but we don't share a common point of reference, which makes it difficult and we are not allowed to promote any other view of the deity of Christ in this forum.

So, I hope you can accept that this is the only post I will make on the subject. I intend to drop the subject and move on.

You can't drop the subject because we're talking about whether or not Jesus rules over the earth. God has always ruled over the earth, so if you say Jesus is God then that means He rules over the earth since that is what God does.

So, you either must believe He rules over the earth because that is what God does or you deny that God rules over the earth. Do you claim that God doesn't rule over the earth right now? If so, do you not believe that God has ever ruled over the earth?

 

[CadyandZoe]

Well now that's just weird. <smile>

Grace and peace to you.

If by "weird" you mean "highly unorthodox," then I agree. And I'm sorry about that. I wasn't the one who raised the issue. @Spiritual Israelite and @WPM did. And I intend to drop the subject and move on. Please respect my desire to avoid derailing the thread.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Premillennialism contradicts scripture (1 Corinthians 15:50-54) by having mortal flesh and blood inheriting the kingdom of God when Jesus returns.​

False narrative claim.

Explain why you are saying that. Do you believe that mortal flesh and blood will inherit eternal life in the kingdom prepared since the foundation of the world when Jesus returns, as Jesus said the sheep (the righteous) will in Matthew 25:31-46?

 

[CadyandZoe]

You ignored that Jesus said "I will come to you" after saying He would not leave them comfortless and after saying the Father would send them another Comforter, who is "The Spirit of truth" who also is also called "The Spirit of God" and "The Spirit of Christ".

I think if you re-read my post you will see that I didn't ignore that.

You also ignore that Jesus said He and the Father would make their abode with those who love Him and keep His words.

Same here. I didn't ignore that either.

He is God! Don't tell me He is not omnipresent!

Jesus said that he wasn't.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

If by "weird" you mean "highly unorthodox," then I agree. And I'm sorry about that. I wasn't the one who raised the issue. @Spiritual Israelite and @WPM did. And I intend to drop the subject and move on. Please respect my desire to avoid derailing the thread.

Jesus's deity is relevant to the discussion about whether He currently rules over the earth or not, so the subject will not be dropped.

 

[Taken]

Explain why you are saying that. Do you believe that mortal flesh and blood will inherit eternal life

No

in the kingdom prepared since the foundation of the world when Jesus returns, as Jesus said the sheep (the righteous) will in Matthew 25:31-46?

Rapture, “pre m” Is not about “flesh and blood humans” inheriting eternal life.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

No

You didn't quote my whole question for some reason. Can you answer the following question...

Do you believe that mortal flesh and blood will inherit eternal life in the kingdom prepared since the foundation of the world when Jesus returns, as Jesus said the sheep (the righteous) will in Matthew 25:31-46? I'm asking you if you believe the sheep (the righteous) who will inherit eternal life when Jesus comes with His angels, inherit the kingdom prepared for them from the foundation of the world with mortal or immortal bodies?

 

[Marilyn C]

I am sorry for any hurtful words I have made toward you that may have caused you to respond like this. I was genuinely troubled about your erratic posts. It was not my heart to offend you. Sorry if I did.

Thank you WPM,

I kept posting the same response to get your attention. Hopefully we can discuss better together.

 

[Taken]

You didn't quote my whole question for some reason. Can you answer the following question...

Do you believe that mortal flesh and blood will inherit eternal life

Answering again….no

in the kingdom prepared since the foundation of the world when Jesus returns, as Jesus said the sheep (the righteous) will in Matthew 25:31-46? I'm asking you if you believe the sheep (the righteous) who will inherit eternal life when Jesus comes with His angels, inherit the kingdom prepared for them from the foundation of the world with mortal or immortal bodies?

All Mortal Human LIFE…shall…must.. will DIE!

Some, (they IN Christ) shall be Bodily (new body)raised up BEFORE the Trib. (Rapture)
They, return to Earth WITH Jesus and His Angels.

Some, (they soul saved during the Trib.)shall be Bodily raised (new Body), First (mass resurrection), after Christ Jesus - 1,000 yr reign).

Remainder, not saved, Bodily raised. In natural body. Second/ Last resurrection.

All Body’s…(Bloodless) raised, Judged, Sentenced…. Forever with or Forever without God.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Answering again….no

When you don't quote the entire question I asked, it is not clear that you are actually answering the question I asked. So, to be clear, you do not believe the sheep in Matthew 25:31-46 inherit the kingdom with mortal bodies, right?

If so, then you are not one of the Premills that I am talking about in this thread. Did you read the original post? I made it clear that I was not referring to all Premills, but rather to those who see the sheep in Matthew 25:31-46 as being mortals who inherit the kingdom prepared from the foundation of the world, which would contradict 1 Corinthians 15:50.

All Mortal Human LIFE…shall…must.. will DIE!

Those mortal human believers who are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord will not die, but rather will be changed to put on bodily immortality (1 Corinthians 15:51-52).

Some, (they IN Christ) shall be Bodily (new body)raised up BEFORE the Trib. (Rapture)
They, return to Earth WITH Jesus and His Angels.

This is not taught anywhere in scxripture. Those who are with Jesus when He comes will be the souls of the dead in Christ. All dead believers from all-time will be resurrected at the same time.

1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. 23 But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.

Where do you see any reference here to some of the dead in Christ being resurrected one time and then others being resurrected later at another time? Nowhere. Paul indicated that all of the dead who are in Christ will be resurrected at the same time. Your doctrine contradicts that.

Some, (they soul saved during the Trib.)shall be Bodily raised (new Body), First (mass resurrection), after Christ Jesus - 1,000 yr reign).

This contradicts what Paul taught in 1 Corinthians 15:22-23.

Remainder, not saved, Bodily raised. In natural body. Second/ Last resurrection.

All Body’s…(Bloodless) raised, Judged, Sentenced…. Forever with or Forever without God.

Jesus taught that all of the dead will be resurrected at the same hour/time.

John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Thank you WPM,

I kept posting the same response to get your attention. Hopefully we can discuss better together.

Just as you feel we were being rude to you previously, that came across as rude for you to think you needed to post the same thing multiple times in order for us to see what you were saying. Anyway, I also apologize if I came across too harsh. The Bible does support the concept of rebuking fellow believers, but you're not seeing it that way, so I'll try to change my tone when talking to you. It is frustrating when you do not give straightforward answers to straightforward questions. So, I ask that you please be more straightforward with your responses and I will try to be more respectful of your wishes as well.

 

[Zao is life]

Jesus himself admitted that he couldn't be everywhere. John 11:11

No, he did not:

John 1
45 Philip found Nathanael and told him, "We have found the one Moses wrote about in the law, and the prophets also wrote about - Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph."
46 Nathanael replied, "Can anything good come out of Nazareth?" Philip replied, "Come and see."

47 Jesus saw Nathanael coming toward him and exclaimed, "Look, a true Israelite in whom there is no deceit!"
48 Nathanael asked him, "How do you know me?" Jesus replied, "Before Philip called you, when you were under the fig tree, I saw you."
49 Nathanael answered him, "Rabbi, you are the Son of God; you are the king of Israel!"
50 Jesus said to him, "Because I told you that I saw you under the fig tree, do you believe? You will see greater things than these."
51 He continued, "I tell all of you the solemn truth - you will see heaven opened and the angels of God ascending and descending on the Son of Man."​

God is a Spirit and God is omnipresent. The Spirit of God is the Spirit of Christ.

 

[Taken]

When you don't quote the entire question I asked, it is not clear that you are actually answering the question I asked. So, to be clear, you do not believe the sheep in Matthew 25:31-46 inherit the kingdom with mortal bodies, right?

Correct.
Earthly, mortal, flesh and Blood body’s Do Not inherit, Occupy, Gods Heaven.

If so, then you are not one of the Premills that I am talking about in this thread.

I have seen No persons making such claims for themselves…
Where are their own testimonies, quotes?

Did you read the original post? I made it clear that I was not referring to all Premills, but rather to those who see the sheep in Matthew 25:31-46 as being mortals who inherit the kingdom prepared from the foundation of the world, which would contradict 1 Corinthians 15:50.

Their testimonies? Quotes?

Those mortal human believers who are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord will not die, but rather will be changed to put on bodily immortality (1 Corinthians 15:51-52).

A new glorified body “CAN NOT become Manifested…UNTIL the OLD Body has Died.

1 Cor. 15:
[35] But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?
[36] Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:

 

[CadyandZoe]

He is God!
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.... 14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

The scriptures you chose are excellent choices to see the point John and Paul want to make about the incarnation. Here, in the first chapter of John's gospel, we understand that Jesus is the Word made flesh, and he dwelt among us in the flesh. John also points out that Jesus is the "exegesis" of God, meaning that Jesus models God to us through his humanity. Jesus makes God relatable to us. We understand God much better since the Word was made flesh.

Colossians 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: 15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: 16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: 17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

Here, the Apostle Paul makes a similar point concerning the relationship between God, who is invisible, and Jesus, who is the visible image of God. Jesus is God translated into a human life, as John said, and Jesus is the visible image of the invisible God, as Paul said.

For this reason, to understand what the Bible says about Jesus' role as the King of Israel and ultimately the King of all the Earth, we do well to remember to interpret Jesus in light of his humanity. He taught us that he would go away (physically) to a far country (heaven) to receive a kingdom. And that he would reward his followers when he returns (physically).

 

[CadyandZoe]

You do not acknowledge that because you do not acknowledge that He is omnipresent and all powerful, as God is.

That's right. Jesus is the Word become flesh. As such, our understanding of him is predicated on our shared human experience. Jesus was born to a virgin, matured physically, mentally, and spiritually, walked around, ate food and drank water, got tired, rested, prayed, and slept. The idea that Jesus, as the Word, took on human form makes his teachings and experiences deeply personal and relatable. It bridges the divine and the human in a way that invites connection, understanding, and reflection. His life, full of joys, struggles, and sacrifice, resonates with people across time and cultures.

Jesus, who is the Word become flesh, is not all-powerful just as any human being is not all-powerful, all-knowing, or present everywhere. The Apostle taught us that Jesus, the Word of God, is the image of the invisible God, his perfect representation to us in human form, the translation of God in the medium of a human life. Jesus is God, but as his role as the image of God, he has all the limitations of his humanity.

That's a beautiful way to think about it—Jesus as the ultimate revelation of God, making the divine understandable through human experience. The Gospel of John often emphasizes that seeing Jesus is seeing the Father, highlighting his role as the perfect expression of God's nature. His life, teachings, compassion, and sacrifice serve as a tangible demonstration of God's character.

And you do not acknowledge that He currently reigns over all things, as God does.

I take into account the human nature of Jesus, and I understand him in terms of his humanity just as John taught us. I understand what he meant by his travel to a "far country" to receive a kingdom. I acknowledge that, because He is God, He already possessed great power and authority; He had it when He walked the streets of Jerusalem, and He had it when He was crucified. He was born the Son of God and the King of Israel. But, as Paul says in his epistle to the Philippians, Jesus chose to serve others during his ministry, taking on the role of a servant rather than insisting on kingship. Jesus didn't live as a king because his father wanted him to live as a servant.

Jesus and his apostles taught us to relate to Him in His humanity and to think about His role, history, and future in terms of His humanity. We know that Jesus is the Word made flesh; we know that Jesus is God, but we must also relate to Jesus as one of us, a human being with limitations. That is the Father's will for his Son Jesus to bring Glory to his Father while living as a human being.

 

[Taken]

Some, (they IN Christ) shall be Bodily (new body)raised up BEFORE the Trib. (Rapture)
They, return to Earth WITH Jesus and His Angels.

This is not taught anywhere in scxripture. Those who are with Jesus when He comes will be the souls of the dead in Christ. All dead believers from all-time will be resurrected at the same time.



Where do you see any reference here to some of the dead in Christ being resurrected one time and then others being resurrected later at another time? Nowhere. Paul indicated that all of the dead who are in Christ will be resurrected at the same time. Your doctrine contradicts that.

Your Error.

It is a Study, a Lesson, I can neither learn, read, study, understand FOR you.

God saves whom He wills.
Christ Jesus saves whom He wills.

If you do not WHO saved you…WHOSE Hand Gave you eternal LIFE, WHOSE Hand Guards You, WHOSE Hand Keeps You, WHOSE Hand Shall Deliver you From the Wrath to Come…

I would not “expect” you to Know WHOSE Hand shall resurrect you or WHEN or WHY at such Time.


John 10:
[28] And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
[29] My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

The Lord…Shall raise up this “IN” Christ.
How Long Shall Those “IN” Christ BE Thereafter WITH the Lord? Forever, where He IS So Also they IN Christ Be WiTH the Lord….
Uh…even so with Him, when He Returns TO Earth!!
1 Thes.4:
[16] For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
[17] Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

And…??? Don’t worry about “WHEN” God shall “Raise up those in Gods Hand”…
God has already notified Students of His Word…He shall Raise Those IN His Hand in the First mass resurrection of all in His Hand.

1 Thes. 4:
[14] For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

A Few in number (primarily) Gentiles ARE already saved….By Christs Hand, and continue to become Saved IN CHRIST.

A Few in number (primarily) Hebrews / Jews/ Israelites (Historically into the future) ARE already Saved by Gods Hand and Continue to become Saved and Shall (including Gentiles) continue to become Saved during the Last Days (Seals & Trumps) Tribulations Sent down from Heaven.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Yes. That is only half the story.

What do you mean? I didn't exclude anything. I am simply taking your belief to its logical conclusion. You claim that Jesus is currently ruling over his followers, spiritually, by means of the Holy Spirit. I agree with that perspective. But you and I must both admit that if he is not ruling over his enemies in their hearts through the Holy Spirit, then he is not currently ruling over all creation.

Why do you exclude the rest? You have to.

So do you, if you are to be consistent.

 

[WPM]

What do you mean? I didn't exclude anything. I am simply taking your belief to its logical conclusion. You claim that Jesus is currently ruling over his followers, spiritually, by means of the Holy Spirit. I agree with that perspective. But you and I must both admit that if he is not ruling over his enemies in their hearts through the Holy Spirit, then he is not currently ruling over all creation.

So do you, if you are to be consistent.

You make things up as you go that are totally contrary to royal kingship, authority, power and ruling in Scripture. I have addressed this but you continue to avoid it. There's nowhere in Scripture that suggests that there will be any subduing of Christ's enemy until He returns. Then He will destroy them in full.

God's rule over His enemies never suggests total wholesale allegiance. It just suggests that He is in total control. He causes and permits what He wishes. None can thwart His purposes. What He wills happens, what, He refuses doesn't happen.

 

[CadyandZoe]

1. Do you believe that Christ “is the head of all principality and power” (Colossians 2:10)?
2. When are “angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him,” (1 Peter 3:22 says) now or in the age to come?
3. When was/does Christ become ruler over the kings of the earth, now only or also in the future (Revelation 1:5)?
4. When does Christ reign? After His enemies are subdued or until His enemies are subdued (1 Corinthians 15:25-28)?
5. 1 Corinthians 15:25-28 and Ephesians 1:20-23 tells us that Christ “hath put (aorist active indicative) all things under his feet” and Hebrews 1:8 tells us that “thou hast put all things in subjection’ (aorist active indicative) under his feet.” How could anyone therefore deny He is sovereignly reigning now over His enemies now? How could anyone then relate this fulfilment to an alleged future age after the second coming?
6. When did/does Christ become the ruler of God’s creation (Revelation 3:14)?
7. Do you believe that Jesus has already spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it (the cross)" (Colossians 2:115)?
8. Do you believe that Christ currently “openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth" (Revelation 3:7)?

Do you believe that Christ “is the head of all principality and power” (Colossians 2:10)?
Yes, he was always the head of all principality and power.

When are “angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him,” (1 Peter 3:22 says) now or in the age to come?
They were always subject to him.

When was/does Christ become ruler over the kings of the earth, now only or also in the future (Revelation 1:5)?
In the future. Having power and using power are two different things. Jesus had command of Angels when he walked the Earth. He chose not to use that power to save himself from the cross.

When does Christ reign? After His enemies are subdued or until His enemies are subdued (1 Corinthians 15:25-28)?
Christ is not reigning yet. He will sit at the right hand of the Father until God subdues his enemies.

1 Corinthians 15:25-28 and Ephesians 1:20-23 tells us that Christ “hath put (aorist active indicative) all things under his feet” and Hebrews 1:8 tells us that “thou hast put all things in subjection’ (aorist active indicative) under his feet.” How could anyone therefore deny He is sovereignly reigning now over His enemies now? How could anyone then relate this fulfilment to an alleged future age after the second coming?
To understand these passages, we would need to review them in context. The answer to your question is to focus on Jesus' role as the Word of God, who has been given "belief" authority. Paul wrote epistles like Galatians, Ephesians, Colossians, and Hebrews during a time when other "authorities" were drawing early believers away from Jesus. Some of these early believers were accepting the teaching of the Jewish religious authorities over the teachings of Jesus and his Apostles. Paul disputes their teaching, pointing out that Jesus is far above any other religious authority, attempting to draw a Jesus follower away from Jesus and put them under their jurisdiction.

When did/does Christ become the ruler of God’s creation (Revelation 3:14)?
This verse speaks to Jesus' role as the faithful and true witness. As God's witness, Jesus is "the beginning" meaning that all other things that might be said about God, must follow directly or logically from Jesus.

Do you believe that Jesus has already spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it (the cross)" (Colossians 2:115)?
Yes. But again, Paul isn't talking about political authorities in that context, he is talking about religious authorities, specifically the scribes and Pharisees. Jesus triumphed over them when God raised him from the dead.

Do you believe that Christ currently “openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth" (Revelation 3:7)?
Yes, this speaks directly to his role as "the beginning", "the Word", the head of all religious authorities, the primary spokesperson for God.