Premillennialism contradicts scripture (1 Corinthians 15:50-54) by having mortal flesh and blood inheriting the kingdom of God when Jesus returns.
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ECT = eternal conscious torment, this view clearly meaning they are conscious and being tormented forever without end. Which is impossible for humans unless they live forever first. My point being, eating from the tree of life is connected with living forever. No human cast into the LOF is going to be eating from the tree of life period, let alone forever. Therefore, how is it logical, in regards to humans cast into the LOF that ECT is their fate?
When the TOL was blocked for humans after the fall, humans began dying eventually. Obviously, when humans are cast into the LOF they are still being blocked access to the TOL. But ECT teaches that they live forever, regardless. It's a contradiction that humans can't live forever without eating of the tree of life forever, but humans can live forever without eating of the TOL forever. The former meaning Revelation 22:2, the latter meaning ECT and those cast into the LOF, that the former can't live forever without eating of the TOL, but that the latter can.
Zao is life
Well-Known Member
Thank you.
It's very interesting because the fire and brimstone of Revelation 14:10 is IMO clearly an allusion to the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, which isn't an ongoing thing, though to this day the geology of the area still bears testimony to its destruction.
IMO that evidence of Sodom & Gomorrah's destruction is - in a sense - "the smoke of their torment".
But in Acts 24:15 Paul said that he had hope toward God that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.
In John 5:28-29 Jesus said "The hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation."
Hebrews 3:18, 4:1 & 10 refers to those who remain faithful to His Word entering the sabbath rest, but it's not the same Greek word being used as in Revelation 14:11, which says that they "have no rest day nor night". The Greek word in Revelation 14:11 seems to be referring to a respite from the torment mentioned, and says that they have no respite, the smoke of their torment ascending up to the ages of the ages,
which sounds very similar to Daniel 12:2: "And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt."
So we have a resurrection of the unjust unto everlasting contempt (Daniel), unto damnation (Jesus), and the smoke of their torment ascending to the ages of the ages (Revelation). But a resurrection unto everlasting life [zoe] is dependant upon being able to eat of the tree of life and be alive [zao] unto God to the ages of the ages.
The geological evidence of the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah does not mean that those who perished there are suffering permanent torment - BUT they have not been resurrected to such a thing, either. But that lake of fire = the second death, and Jesus spoke about both soul and body being destroyed in gehenna.It's very interesting because the fire and brimstone of Revelation 14:10 is IMO clearly an allusion to the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, which isn't an ongoing thing, though to this day the geology of the area still bears testimony to its destruction.
IMO that evidence of Sodom & Gomorrah's destruction is - in a sense - "the smoke of their torment".
But in Acts 24:15 Paul said that he had hope toward God that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.
In John 5:28-29 Jesus said "The hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation."
Hebrews 3:18, 4:1 & 10 refers to those who remain faithful to His Word entering the sabbath rest, but it's not the same Greek word being used as in Revelation 14:11, which says that they "have no rest day nor night". The Greek word in Revelation 14:11 seems to be referring to a respite from the torment mentioned, and says that they have no respite, the smoke of their torment ascending up to the ages of the ages,
which sounds very similar to Daniel 12:2: "And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt."
So we have a resurrection of the unjust unto everlasting contempt (Daniel), unto damnation (Jesus), and the smoke of their torment ascending to the ages of the ages (Revelation). But a resurrection unto everlasting life [zoe] is dependant upon being able to eat of the tree of life and be alive [zao] unto God to the ages of the ages.
Either the scriptures are not clear or don't provide enough info, or my mind is too fallible to fully understand (probably the latter),
OR it is clear - but my mind does not want to imagine ECT.
Or something.
And God who loved us in our sin also loves Israel whom He made for a specific purpose. Israel will turn to God when He reveals Himself to them. (Zech. 12: 10)
Only a remnant of Israel will be saved. Isaiah 10:22; Romans 9:27
Two Israels.
Romans 9
6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
1. Of Israel:
Not all Israel
The children of the flesh
Not the children of God
Not the children of the promise
Not counted for the seed
2. All Israel:
Not of Israel
Not the children of the flesh
The children of God
The children of the promise
Counted for the seed
Only one of these two Israels shall be saved.
Romans 11
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
Only faithful obedient spiritual "all Israel" in Christ, comprised of the believing elect beloved remnant from Israel (Romans 9:27; Romans 11:1-5,26,28), and believers from among the Gentiles (Romans 11:11), shall be saved.
Isaac is the child of promise. It will be through Isaac that some of Israel will rule the nations.
`In Isaac your seed shall be called....the children of the promise are counted as the seed.` (Rom. 9: 7 & 8)
Physical children.
Spiritual children.
The Church.
Galatians 4
28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
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