PRETRIB RAPTURE ANCIENT ROOTS

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David in NJ

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I've found that to be the case also. Those who believe Israel is replaced by the Church (amil, post-trib, etc.) will typically demand all teaching come from the NT. Sometimes they've even demanded I only base my doctrines on certain books, or in one case recently, to a portion of a single chapter.

Given that the same God inspired both, I think we should pay attention to all God has said.

Much love!
What about JESUS???
Do you believe His every word???

Therefore, when the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those vinedressers?”

41They said to Him, “He will destroy those wicked men miserably, and lease his vineyard to other vinedressers who will render to him the fruits in their seasons.”

42Jesus said to them, “Have you never read in the Scriptures:

‘The stone which the builders rejected
Has become the chief cornerstone.
This was the Lord’s doing,
And it is marvelous in our eyes’?
43“Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken from you(Israel of the flesh) and given to a nation bearing the fruits of it.
44And whoever falls on this stone will be broken; but on whomever it falls, it will grind him to powder
.”

45Now when the chief priests and Pharisees heard His parables, they perceived that He was speaking of them.
46But when they sought to lay hands on Him, they feared the multitudes, because they took Him for a prophet.

Do you SEE this???

Did JESUS err in removing the kingdom from those who hate God, even though they are the children of Abraham/Jews???

@rebuilder 454 @The Light @marks
 

marks

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The BIGGEST PROOF that the pre-trib rapture idea is false is by measuring it per God's written Word.

In Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27, Lord Jesus Christ revealed that His future coming and gathering of His saints will be AFTER... the tribulation. It is written as a DIRECT STATEMENT.
Jesus prophesied the very same thing that He inspired His prophets to write. Here are just a couple:

Ezekiel 36:23-28 KJV
23) And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, saith the Lord GOD, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes.
24) For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.
25) Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
26) A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27) And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
28) And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.

Ezekiel 39:27-29 KJV
27) When I have brought them again from the people, and gathered them out of their enemies' lands, and am sanctified in them in the sight of many nations;
28) Then shall they know that I am the LORD their God, which caused them to be led into captivity among the heathen: but I have gathered them unto their own land, and have left none of them any more there.
29) Neither will I hide my face any more from them: for I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord GOD.

Jesus prophesied the very same thing:

Matthew 24:30-31 KJV
30) And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31) And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

We know this isn't including the Gentiles, as these are gathered separately, both righteous and wicked.

Matthew 25:31-32 KJV
31) When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32) And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

Much love!
 

Douggg

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This is all speculation that comes from your imagination. Nowhere does scripture teach two separate harvests/raptures. We are all ONE in Christ. God only has ONE people and they will ALL be raptured at the same time. Your attempts to DIVIDE God's people are completely unbiblical and an insult to Christ's sacrifice that brought Jew and Gentile believers together as ONE BODY (Ephesians 2:11-22).
Although I would not call it a resurrection/rapture event like that of 1Thessalonians4:14-18, there will be people born, saved, die during the 1000 years reign of Christ. Although life spans will be substantially increased.

After the final rebellion of the nations, deceived one last time by Satan, at the end of the thousand years, there will be a resurrection of the millennium era dead in Christ and translation of the millennium era living in Christ, for the Great White Throne judgment. For those saved, the Great White Throne judgment will be a time of reward for what they did for the cause of Christ during their life time.
 

David in NJ

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Jesus prophesied the very same thing that He inspired His prophets to write. Here are just a couple:

Ezekiel 36:23-28 KJV
23) And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, saith the Lord GOD, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes.
24) For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.
25) Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
26) A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27) And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
28) And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.

Ezekiel 39:27-29 KJV
27) When I have brought them again from the people, and gathered them out of their enemies' lands, and am sanctified in them in the sight of many nations;
28) Then shall they know that I am the LORD their God, which caused them to be led into captivity among the heathen: but I have gathered them unto their own land, and have left none of them any more there.
29) Neither will I hide my face any more from them: for I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord GOD.

Jesus prophesied the very same thing:

Matthew 24:30-31 KJV
30) And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31) And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

We know this isn't including the Gentiles, as these are gathered separately, both righteous and wicked.

Matthew 25:31-32 KJV
31) When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32) And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

Much love!
And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth His sheep from the goats:

Do you understand this? for it proves that their is One Fold = His Sheep


Do you understand that "all nations" includes the earthbound nation Israel/of the flesh

@The Light @rebuilder 454
 

marks

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Looks like you are well... prepared to fall away to the false-Messiah that comes first, thinking he will be Jesus. That's who the fake pre-trib rapture doctors are preparing their followers for.
Could you explain to me how holding to the pre-trib rapture view causes one to become susceptible to thinking the "false messiah" will be Jesus? I don't understand that. Please help me to understand how that is not completely non-sequitor.

Thank you!
Much love!
 

David in NJ

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Although I would not call it a resurrection/rapture event like that of 1Thessalonians4:14-18, there will be people born, saved, die during the 1000 years reign of Christ. Although life spans will be substantially increased.

After the final rebellion of the nations, deceived one last time by Satan, at the end of the thousand years, there will be a resurrection of the millennium era dead in Christ and translation of the millennium era living in Christ, for the Great White Throne judgment. For those saved, the Great White Throne judgment will be a time of reward for what they did for the cause of Christ during their life time.
Although I would not call it a resurrection/rapture event like that of 1Thessalonians 4:14-18

Why not?
 
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marks

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How many times do you have to be answered. Everyone knows you MO. Deny, you've been answered.......deny, deny, deny.

I could answer a thousand times, and it would be DENY, DENY, DENY.

On a side note, many of questions you ask want to limit the use of the Old Testament. Are you saying the Old Testament is not he Word of God?

2 Timothy 3
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
I've found this very same thing, no matter what reply is given, "No, you've never given any . . ." Like you say, empty denials.

Personally I've concluded that the most common reason that some will believe a pre-trib rapture and some don't, and that some believe a 1,000 year kingdom that follows Jesus' coming in glory and some don't, is that some believe Israel remains a nation before God, and some don't.

That's the heart, as I see it. Does Israel continue as an ethnic nation? Or is Israel cast away for what they've done, with the church now filling in the ranks of Israel?

The New Testament prophecies presuppose that Israel will be a nation in the world at the end of the age. The Old Testament prophesies make this very plain with many explicit statements.

So it seems natural to me that those who desire to show that Israel as a nation doesn't matter any longer will seek to restrict the use of the Old Testament passages that show Israel is promised in detail that the nation not only will remain, but will be rescued by Jesus, reborn, and placed as the head of nations in Jesus' 1,000 year rule.

And maybe that's the objection? I don't know. Maybe there are those who just can't stand the idea of Israel being promoted like that?

Much love!
 

Ronald D Milam

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Exactly. Your imaginary Pretrib rapture has just gone up in smoke.
Of course it is mentioned, you just seemingly do not have the ability to dig it out or your position creates an entrenchment which your false pride will not let you escape from.

Lets see, in Rev. 1 Jesus in all his Glory was "The things which you HAVE SEEN" on earth as a lamb and in his eternal Glory as God the Redeemer.

In Rev. 2 you of the Divinely Complete Church Age (7 = Divine Completion) and John was told these are "The things which ARE".

Then IMMEDIATLY AQFTER the 7 Churches (Church Age Period) we see John being Raptured in real time, how do we know he saw his on future Rapture in a vision? Because God/Jesus/the Angels immediately started showing him the 70th week events back on earth and the Raptured Church in Heave beginning in Rev. 4:4, AFTER showing John his own Rapture John is told to COME UP HERE, I will show you the things which will be "HEREFATER". In that same verse we are told Jesus' voice SOUNDS AS A TRUMP. This is John telling those who will hear it, that this is the LAST TRUMP, ala Jesus calling us home to Marry the Lamb, as Rev. 10 clearly shows, we marry the Lamb then return to earth for the Marriage Supper (Armageddon) where we celebrate (our victory of our foes).

Do you even understand that all 7 Feasts must be fulfilled by Jesus and the LAST TRUMP shows us that it MUST COME before Israel ARONES? and before the 1000 year reign? For all you guys who think God gives specific verses on things, NO, God gives us info we have to dig out on purpose, why was Israel not awaiting the Messiahs birth? If they had understood Daniel 9 and that Bethlehem was his place of birth, they would have just killed him, as King Herod tried to do right? They had vague info for a reason. But the Wise Men knew, the old man who saw baby Jesus knew. Now, you want to know deep secrets of God? Try digging deep and not expecting to be hit over the head with answers. Jesus also had to come out of Egypt. God wants us to seek His face and to dig out His truths.

So, I am sure you would agree Jesus fulfilled all the Spring Feasts right? 1.) Passover (he was killed CHECK) 2.) Jesus fulfilled the Unleavened Bread Feast (He knew NO SIN) 3.) Jesus fulfilled the First-fruits feast (Jesus was the First-fruits of the grave, he overcame death)

So, what is next after that? The lone Feast on the Calendar ALL UNTO ITSELF (Think Church Age Period)

4.) The Feast of Weeks/Summer Harvest ( Jesus is NOW FULFILLING this Feast as our High Priest in Heaven, he is the head and we are the body, we are all HARVESTING SOULS for God as we speak. What ALWAYS ENDED the Jewish Summer Harvest? The Feast of Trumps (Ding, ding ding... think THE LAST TRUMP)

5.) Feast of Trumps (Jesus will fulfill this when he Harvests the Church from "upon a cloud as Rev. 14:14 clearly shows us he will do" and as Rev. 4:1 shows him doing via Paul's afore mentioned LAST TRUMP. This Last Trump also explains wat Jesus meant by "NO MAN KNOWS THE DAY NOR HOUR" These Feasts were APPOINTED TIMES via Moon cycles, a New Moon always started the Feasts, so Israel knew when the Fall Feasts were near but they could not pick out a certain date (which is why Easter/Passover is never on the same date every year) or day, this Moon Phase could come lets say just before Sundown on a Monday, just after Sundown (Tuesday) or after sundown on Tuesday which would be Wen., so in like a 25 hour period the New Moon could show up on 3 different days, thus NO MAN knew the exact day nor hour but God the Father. This is what Jesus is telling us when he says N0 MAN will now the day nor hour, that he will return in the end times for his bride, when the HARVST SEASON (think Church Age) is over, and just before the Feast of Atonement sees Israel repent. The LAST TRUMP is Jesus ENDING the Church Age.

Rev. 4:1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.

6.) The Feast of Atonement is the 2nd Fall Feast Jesus fulfills in the Future, Jesus' blood ATONES for Israel sin but only when they accept him as a Nation (the 1/3 in Zech. 13"8-9 repent, in the VERY NEXT vs. we see the DOTL arrives in Zech. 14:1 so Israel repents JUST BEFORE the DOTL and that matches Malachi 4:5-6 which says Elijah will be sent back to turn Israel back unto God JUST BEFORE the DOTL arrives.

7.) Feast of Tabernacles (to TABERNACLE means to DWELL with God) think Jesus the Redeemer who rules from Jerusalem for 1000 years. It ALL FITS LIKE GLOVE, but you guys want God to slap you in the head with a big bold headline, (LOL) that is not God's style. You not knowing this is on you.

Rev. 4:4 is THE CHURCH look at the GIFTS (God is shouting LO They sit at God's THRONE, they have on WHITE ROBES and the have on Gold Crowns. Now look at Rev. 2:10, Rev. 3:5 and Rev. 3:21 all of those things were PROMISED to those who OVERCAME (Church). In Rev. 5:9-10 we see those people are REDEEMED BY GOD so w know its the Church. Then in Rev. 7:9-16 we see the Church in Heaven who came out of the Church Age Tribulation.
 

Davy

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You got a single verse.!

But your single verse is post wrath and is heaven gathering by angels.
Maybe try again.
But your main, and most likely only verse is a fail.

Is that what happens to your mind when you read God's Word, you only see a SINGLE VERSE? That makes sense why those on man's false pre-trib rapture theory cannot grasp what all Lord Jesus warned His faithful about. It's why those like myself just waste our time trying to explain it to you, and trying to get you to actually study your Bible instead of turning God's House into a social club.
 

David in NJ

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I've found this very same thing, no matter what reply is given, "No, you've never given any . . ." Like you say, empty denials.

Personally I've concluded that the most common reason that some will believe a pre-trib rapture and some don't, and that some believe a 1,000 year kingdom that follows Jesus' coming in glory and some don't, is that some believe Israel remains a nation before God, and some don't.

That's the heart, as I see it. Does Israel continue as an ethnic nation? Or is Israel cast away for what they've done, with the church now filling in the ranks of Israel?

The New Testament prophecies presuppose that Israel will be a nation in the world at the end of the age. The Old Testament prophesies make this very plain with many explicit statements.

So it seems natural to me that those who desire to show that Israel as a nation doesn't matter any longer will seek to restrict the use of the Old Testament passages that show Israel is promised in detail that the nation not only will remain, but will be rescued by Jesus, reborn, and placed as the head of nations in Jesus' 1,000 year rule.

And maybe that's the objection? I don't know. Maybe there are those who just can't stand the idea of Israel being promoted like that?

Much love!
That's the heart, as I see it. Does Israel continue as an ethnic nation?
Of course Israel continues as a ethnic nation = Matthew 23:37-39

Or is Israel cast away for what they've done, with the church now filling in the ranks of Israel?
JESUS Says that HE has taken the kingdom from the ethnic nation Israel and HE has given it to a nation bearing the fruits of The Kingdom = Matthew 21:40-45

The New Testament prophecies presuppose that Israel will be a nation in the world at the end of the age. The Old Testament prophesies make this very plain with many explicit statements.
CORRECT = Matthew 23:37-39 and Zechariah chapters 13 & 14

Maybe there are those who just can't stand the idea of Israel being promoted like that?
Why do you deny what JESUS Says???
the error of pre-trib seeks to demote/deny the Israel of God which is the Body of CHRIST, in order to separate Jew from Gentile

pre-trib promotes division in the Body of Christ and grave sin from the will of man that opposes the Will of God
 

marks

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LOL. Mount Sion is not in heaven. I guess you missed the part where the 144,000 are redeemed FROM the earth.

Revelation 14
3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.
This is a good example of paying attention to the details.

Revelation 14:1-5 KJV
1) And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.
2) And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:
3) And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.
4) These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
5) And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.

They stand with the Lamb on Mt Sion, an Earth location, a voice comes from heaven, and they are singing before the throne, having been redeemed from the earth.

These are they with God's Name on their foreheads.

Revelation 7:3-4 KJV
3) Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.
4) And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

This confirms Israel remains a nation before God exactly as was prophesied.

And there is another question to be answered,

These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

Firstfruits of what?

Revelation 7:3-4 KJV
3) Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.
4) And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

"The servants of God", this is an inclusive statement. If you are a "servant of God" at this time, you will be included in this number. And yet there are 144,000, and they are all Jews, specifically, 12,000 from each of 12 tribes. There are no Gentile Christians who are servants of God on the earth at the time this happens. Where did they go??

Much love!
 

marks

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They are the first fruits of the second harvest of the fig tree. See Hosea 9:10 above.

The Gentiles become the first harvest. As the scripture shows, the fathers of Israel were supposed to be the first fruits. They weren't. After the pretribulation rapture of the Church there has to be first fruits of the second harvest. Hence the 144,000 from the 12 tribes.
Oops! I forgot to go back and finish reading your post! You already mentioned this.

They are the first fruits of the 70th week salvation of Israel.

Much love!
 

Davy

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Just post us a real postrib verse.
Stop attacking people's faith and character.
Try and open a bible and go step by step in your one or 2 verses to convince us inferior believers.
( of some postrib rapture)

I did post REAL TRUTH from Lord Jesus Christ where HE showed a pre-trib rapture of His saints is FALSE, but YOU rejected what HE... said, and thus you must either repent and change, or suffer the consequences of your false belief.

So, what FAITH am I attacking, since you refuse to heed what Lord Jesus Himself said about His future coming to gather His saints AFTER THE TRIBULATION? Must I reference those Scriptures He said YET AGAIN?

Matthew 24:29-31
Mark 13:24-27

So YOU... are the one who needs to stop trying to play create credibility LIES, and get down to real disciplined Bible study instead of heeding the charlatans you follow instead.
 

marks

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John sees Jesus and a 144,000 on Mount Sion. John is on the earth. He hears a voice from heaven. It's not that I am unaware of a heavenly Mount Zion, it that I am not ignorant to FACT that John is on the earth and the 144,000 are redeemed FROM THE EARTH.

Revelation 14
2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:
I think of this as being subject to every word of God. These kinds of details are very limiting to one's interpretation. Unless, that is, if someone is willing to declare the passage as "spiritually understood", in which case, they can make it mean literally anything.

I think what happens is that someone concludes something like, The church is now Israel, and then goes on to find all the passages that seem to show that's not so. Rather than go back and re-examine the first assertion to see if maybe it's not correct, they go on to re-interpret these other passages so they can align with their assertion.

I find it better to just believe what's written the way it's written, of course.

Much love!
 

David in NJ

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This is a good example of paying attention to the details.

Revelation 14:1-5 KJV
1) And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.
2) And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:
3) And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.
4) These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
5) And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.

They stand with the Lamb on Mt Sion, an Earth location, a voice comes from heaven, and they are singing before the throne, having been redeemed from the earth.

These are they with God's Name on their foreheads.

Revelation 7:3-4 KJV
3) Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.
4) And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

This confirms Israel remains a nation before God exactly as was prophesied.

And there is another question to be answered,

These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

Firstfruits of what?

Revelation 7:3-4 KJV
3) Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.
4) And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

"The servants of God", this is an inclusive statement. If you are a "servant of God" at this time, you will be included in this number. And yet there are 144,000, and they are all Jews, specifically, 12,000 from each of 12 tribes. There are no Gentile Christians who are servants of God on the earth at the time this happens. Where did they go??

Much love!
News FLASH = Every Born-Again Jew & Gentile is "Redeemed from the earth"

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
 
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David in NJ

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I think of this as being subject to every word of God. These kinds of details are very limiting to one's interpretation. Unless, that is, if someone is willing to declare the passage as "spiritually understood", in which case, they can make it mean literally anything.

I think what happens is that someone concludes something like, The church is now Israel, and then goes on to find all the passages that seem to show that's not so. Rather than go back and re-examine the first assertion to see if maybe it's not correct, they go on to re-interpret these other passages so they can align with their assertion.

I find it better to just believe what's written the way it's written, of course.

Much love!
I find it better to just believe what's written the way it's written, of course.
Do you though???

29“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many.
To those who eagerly wait for Him
He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation. - Hebrews 9:28
 
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Davy

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No, I was not describing "soul sleep". I don't believe in soul sleep. I believe that when a Christian dies, their soul goes to heaven to be with the Lord. And that their bodies return to the dust of earth, just as God said in Genesis.

Not what you said in your Post #25. You said the bodies of the alseep saints are asleep in the ground.

You Said:
"In 1Thessalonians4:14-18, at God the Father's direction (verse 14), Jesus brings from heaven the souls of Christians that have died (their bodies asleep in the grave) for the resurrection of those bodies. The resurrected bodies out from the earth are then reunited with the souls that Jesus brings with Him from heaven."


That above in red is the idea of men's doctrine called Soul Sleep. The idea that their flesh bodies in the casket is re-united to their spirit is part of the Soul Sleep Theory from men.

The usage by Apostle Paul of the word "asleep" in the KJV for the saints who have died, is a metaphor. Paul did not mean the dead saints are literally asleep. This is easily revealed in 1 Peter 3 & 4 when Lord Jesus at His resurrection went to the "spirits in prison" and preached The Gospel to them, and led those who believed out of Satan's prison house. That was a prophecy written in Isaiah 42:7 that was to happen at Christ's 1st coming. Have you not read further with 1 Peter 4 where Peter said this about those spirits of the dead?

1 Peter 4:5-6
5 Who shall give account to Him That is ready to judge the quick and the dead.
6
For, for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.
KJV

Even as Lord Jesus said...

Matt 22:31-32
31 But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying,
32 "I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob?" God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.
KJV


Thus Paul's reference to the "asleep" metaphor is NOT about the dead flesh in the ground which perishes. It is applied to the actual spirit/soul part. However, it is just a metaphor, because no one in Christ will ever die, like Jesus promised. But the real 'dead' is about those without Christ that are destined to perish at the future "lake of fire". And just what is it of a person that will perish? One's soul with spirit, and not their flesh body. No one goes into the future "lake of fire" with a flesh body, for that idea is only assumed, and goes against what Apostle Paul and Lord Jesus taught about the resurrection of both the Just and the unjust to a resurrection type body ("spiritual body" per Paul).
 

marks

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Yes, I am aware that some early Christian were called "a kind of firstfruits"
James 1:18 KJV
Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

Interestingly, to whom was this addressed?

James 1:1 KJV
James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.


Much love!
 

The Light

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Nowhere does scripture connect the feasts to end times. That's all in pre-tribs imagination. Don't think it's not noticeable that you are not able to show any scripture which directly links the feasts to end times. It's all made up in your imaginations. Your doctrine is based on fairy tales that you invent in your minds rather than on scripture.
Some see, some don't. Some hear, some don't. There are 5 wise and 5 foolish.

The Lord is at the doors. The fact that you can't see this does not change that He is.