Is a Jew who accepts Christ ethnic or spiritual?
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Romans 2
28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
@Douggg is correct in this truth = Jewish mother determines her children = but only according to the flesh
Jews & Gentiles, as you fully know, only are SAVED by faith in the LORD Jesus Christ
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
We are talking about the flesh in the capacity of 'ethnicity', regardless of one's belief.
I tell the truth in Christ, I am not lying, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Spirit, that I have great sorrow and continual grief in my heart. For I could wish that I myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my countrymen according to the flesh, who are Israelites, to whom pertain the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the service of God, and the promises;
of whom are the fathers and from whom, according to the flesh, Christ came, who is over all, the eternally blessed God. Amen.
Mary was Jewish and so too was Jesus = as Prophesied
@Douggg
It matters not one whit.
Genetically, you and I and everyone on the planet today are both Jew and Gentile, because after thousands of years of natural genetic dispersion and diffusion since the time of Abraham, Jewish DNA is ubiquitous throughout humanity, and Gentile DNA is ubiquitous throughout humanity.
This is consistent with the nature of God, who is not a racist. Acts 10:34,35
Corroborated empirically by the Jewish community itself (identified today by culture, community, and religion, not by genetics).
Abraham lineage
DNA Tests Could Fulfill God’s Promise to Abraham by Revealing Millions of Jews. But How Jewish is Jewish Enough?
Israel in all of Us? Research finds 'Jewish genes' in unusual places
Jewish-Roots Arabs in Israel
Tracing the lost tribes to Jewish communities in Africa
Nigeria's Igbo Jews: 'Lost tribe' of Israel? - CNN
http://www.worldjewishcongress.org/...-africa-has-jewish-roots-genetic-tests-reveal
https://www.jpost.com/Jewish-World/...her-claims-proof-of-tribe-of-Ephraim-in-India
https://www.jta.org/2013/05/23/life...bush-bani-israel-tribe-claims-jewish-heritage
Demonstrated mathematically.
Example of ancestral genetic ubiquity:
Charlemagne’s DNA and Our Universal Royalty
BY CARL ZIMMER
Nobody in my past was hugely famous, at least that I know of. I vaguely recall that an ancestor of mine who shipped over on the Mayflower distinguished himself by falling out of the ship and having to get fished out of the water. He might be notable, I guess, but hardly famous. It is much more fun to think that I am a bloodline descendant of Charlemagne. And in 1999, Joseph Chang gave me permission to think that way.
Chang was not a genealogist who had decided to make me his personal project. Instead, he is a statistician at Yale who likes to think of genealogy as a mathematical problem. When you draw your genealogy, you make two lines from yourself back to each of your parents. Then you have to draw two lines for each of them, back to your four grandparents. And then eight great-grandparents, sixteen great-great-grandparents, and so on. But not so on for very long. If you go back to the time of Charlemagne, forty generations or so, you should get to a generation of a trillion ancestors. That’s about two thousand times more people than existed on Earth when Charlemagne was alive.
The only way out of this paradox is to assume that our ancestors are not independent of one another. That is, if you trace their ancestry back, you loop back to a common ancestor. We’re not talking about first-cousin stuff here–more like twentieth-cousin. This means that instead of drawing a tree that fans out exponentially, we need to draw a web-like tapestry.
In a paper he published in 1999 [pdf], Chang analyzed this tapestry mathematically. If you look at the ancestry of a living population of people, he concluded, you’ll eventually find a common ancestor of all of them. That’s not to say that a single mythical woman somehow produced every European by magically laying a clutch of eggs. All this means is that as you move back through time, sooner or later some of the lines in the genealogy will cross, meeting at a single person.
As you go back further in time, more of those lines cross as you encounter more common ancestors of the living population. And then something really interesting happens. There comes a point at which, Chang wrote, “all individuals who have any descendants among the present-day individuals are actually ancestors of all present-day individuals.”
In 2002, the journalist Steven Olson wrote an article in the Atlantic about Chang’s work. To put some empirical meat on the abstract bones of Chang’s research, Olson considered a group of real people–living Europeans.
The most recent common ancestor of every European today (except for recent immigrants to the Continent) was someone who lived in Europe in the surprisingly recent past—only about 600 years ago. In other words, all Europeans alive today have among their ancestors the same man or woman who lived around 1400. Before that date, according to Chang’s model, the number of ancestors common to all Europeans today increased, until, about a thousand years ago, a peculiar situation prevailed: 20 percent of the adult Europeans alive in 1000 would turn out to be the ancestors of no one living today (that is, they had no children or all their descendants eventually died childless); each of the remaining 80 percent would turn out to be a direct ancestor of every European living today.
Suddenly, my pedigree looked classier: I am a descendant of Charlemagne. Of course, so is every other European. By the way, I’m also a descendant of Nefertiti. And so are you, and everyone else on Earth today. Chang figured that out by expanding his model from living Europeans to living humans, and getting an estimate of 3400 years instead of a thousand for the all-ancestor generation.
Things have changed a lot in the fourteen years since Chang published his first paper on ancestry. Scientists have amassed huge databases of genetic information about people all over the world. These may not be the same thing as a complete genealogy of the human race, but geneticists can still use them to tackle some of the same questions that intrigued Chang.
Recently, two geneticists, Peter Ralph of the University of Southern California and Graham Coop of the University of California at Davis, decided to look at the ancestry of Europe. They took advantage of a compilation of information about 2257 people from across the continent. Scientists had examined half a million sites in each person’s DNA, creating a distinctive list of genetic markers for each of them.
You can use this kind of genetic information to make some genealogical inferences, but you have to know what you’re dealing with. Your DNA is not a carbon copy of your parents’. Each time they made eggs or sperm, they shuffled the two copies of each of their chromosomes and put one in the cell. Just as a new deck gets more scrambled the more times you shuffle it, chromosomes get more shuffled from one generation to the next.
This means that if you compare two people’s DNA, you will find some chunks that are identical in sequence. The more closely related people are, the bigger the chunks you’ll find. This diagram shows how two first cousins share a piece of DNA that’s identical by descent (IBD for short).
Ralph and Coop identified 1.9 million of these long shared segments of DNA shared by at least two people in their study. They then used the length of each segment to estimate how long ago it arose from a common ancestor of the living Europeans.
Their results, published today in PLOS Biology, both confirm Chang’s mathematical approach and enrich it. Even within the past thousand years, Ralph and Coop found, people on opposite sides of the continent share a lot of segments in common–so many, in fact, that it’s statistically impossible for them to have gotten them all from a single ancestor. Instead, someone in Turkey and someone in England have to share a lot of ancestors. In fact, as Chang suspected, the only way to explain the DNA is to conclude that everyone who lived a thousand years ago who has any descendants today is an ancestor of every European. Charlemagne for everyone!
If you compare two people in Turkey, you’ll find bigger shared segments of DNA, which isn’t surprising. Since they live in the same country, chances are they have more recent ancestors, and more of them. But there is a rich, intriguing pattern to the number of shared segments among Europeans. People across Eastern Europe, for example, have a larger set of shared segments than people from within single countries in Western Europe. That difference may be the signature of a big expansion of the Slavs.
Ralph and Coop’s study may provide a new tool for reconstructing the history of humans on every continent.
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How does God distinguish genetic Jews from genetic Jews?
It matters not one whit.
God has only two covenant criteria.
Two spiritual genes.
Faith and obedience.
Abraham's Spiritual DNA.
And nothing else.
A proselyte to Judaism? I don't think in that case her children are considered Jews.
The Light
Well-Known Member
Noah is a picture of the rapture of the Church. I always thought that Noah was in the ark 7 days before the flood, but he wasn't. Noah spent the first day loading the animals. So I don't believe that the Church will be in heaven before the week starts. I do believe, by looking at Rev 5 and 6 that the Church will be in heaven before the seals are opened. And looking further, we do not know what day the Lord shut the door of the ark.
Let's look at a hypothetical timeline. If you haven't accepted what I have told you before, it will be fat chance on this.
Let's hypothetically say the Millennial Kingdom is set up in 2030. We know that this will occur on the Feast of Tabernacles which is a fall feast. Counting back 7 years would mean that a 7-year covenant with many would be signed in the fall of 2023. Strangely enough, there was a 7-year covenant with many signed via the UN. It was the 7-year accelerated Sustainable Development Goals. This is unconfirmed by the Antichrist at this time, so that is another story.
Let's set another hypothetical. Let's say the Church is raptured at the end of summer of 2025 on the Feast of New Wine or on Tu B'Av.
Shortly after the Church is raptured, the first of the 7 seals would be opened. Also, the Feast of New Oil would happen and the 144,000 would be sealed. I'm setting these hypotheticals because I want to show you how those 3.5 years play out.
If the 2 witnesses, hypothetically show up in the spring of 2026, that would start their 3.5 years. The beast of the sea after that point will be given 3.5 years. These two timeframes almost overlap as the beast kills the two witnesses shortly before Armageddon. The beast gets dealt with then. The point being that the two witness don't go for 3.5 years in the first half of the week and the beast 3.5 years in the last half.
If the AOD is set up in the middle of the week and the great tribulation begins.................how long is the great tribulation? It is not 3.5 years.
First off, the great tribulation is over at the 6th seal. Secondly, the 7th seal Day of Wrath lasts ONE YEAR. Thirdly there is still the Day of Atonement which will also last one year.
What no one understands is that the final week, which is 7 years, works just like 6 days of work and a year of rest. Hence the Day of Atonement is the final year of the 7 years. And the Day of Wrath is the year 6 of the 7 years.
That said, the great tribulation cannot be longer than a year and a half........3.5 Years minus 2 years is 1 and a half years.
I seriously doubt you can follow this but maybe you can understand that Day of Atonement is the final year of the 7 years..
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
I think you should consider why you insist on continuing to believe false doctrine even after being shown the truth. And you should consider why you only have a problem with the behavior of post-tribs or amils while giving all pre-tribs a pass no matter what they say just because you agree with their pre-trib doctrine.
You don't know me at all. Just because I call people out and rebuke them on a forum for false teaching makes you think you know me? There is no excuse for clinging to false doctrine the way you do. Denying who the chosen/elect in Matthew 24:31 are (us - the church) and who the sheep in Matthew 25:31-46 are (us, the church) and being stubborn to hold on to your false doctrine instead says something about your character. How about you take the log out of your own eye first before talking about others? I'm not buying your holier than thou act.
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
The Messiah being cut off after the 69th week ends places His death within the 70th week. During the 70th week He accomplished all six things listed in Daniel 9:24 that were to be fulfilled by the end of the 70 weeks and He confirmed the new covenant while making the old covenant sacrifices and offerings obsolete.
To not even have Jesus's death occurring within any of the 70 weeks makes no sense because without His sacrifice none of the things listed in Daniel 9:24 could have been accomplished.
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