I've concluded that the seals precede the trumpets, which precede the bowls. I think you see them as describing the same things, is that right?
Much love!
PRETRIB RAPTURE ANCIENT ROOTS
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Much love!
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
and make 'damn' sure that no Gentile are includedThat's the dispen way.
Jewify everything in sight.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
@marks = you are falsely accusing = not of Christ or the Holy Spirit = no love vs much love
i fully understand who the Jewish people are and who they are not = according to "Thy word is Truth"
After i do this work, i will be back to post the TRUTH
Now, is that what I said? Or is that your perverse rewording to make me look bad? Let's see.
No, it's not what I said.
So it's more of that brand of nonsense.
Much love!
I'm not sure what you think I'm accusing you of, other than not understanding these prophecies. But this is the point where I think we should again table this, and you can simply consider what I've said.
Much love!
BarneyFife
Well-Known Member
You'd better get used to Mexican Jumping Bean theology with this one. Because that is all you're going to get.
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
Yes, it is what you said. Why are you denying it? Do you forget everything you say? You did act as if the behavior of people on this forum is a determining factor in whether or not pre-trib or post-trib is true. Your backpeddling now.
What happens when you gauge a man's doctrine by his character? Does what he's learned make him a Spiritually fruitful man? Does he show his love for others? Or does he despise others (in the Biblical sense, these are both action words). Does he show his self control? Gentleness? Something to think about!
I asked a question. And I still consider this to be a valid thought for you to consider.
We show we know God by our love for others.
Much love!
Who is Israel? The ethnic people group who came from the loins of Jacob? A spiritual group of all the redeemed?
Much love!
At the end of the day, I think this best reflects reality. The fact is, we have our different ideas about what's going to happen when, but that doesn't determine what will be. It's going to happen the way God determined, and that's that.
So if any of us get it wrong, we'll still be living our lives, we'll still be in Christ, we will still have the Holy Spirit, and God will still take care of us.
We will still get up in the morning and do our day, trusting in Jesus, no matter what that day holds. And when (not if) the going gets tough, Jesus will bring us through it like He always has.
Amen! We watch for Jesus, we do our best to live worthy of Him, no matter what is happening. Even things that may make no sense to us.
To me, the heart of all things in this life is found in my relationship with God, not in having every end times event all nailed down.
And this being the case, no one should become divisive or mean spirited as we discuss these things. Arrogance has no place either. If we are not living in humility, we will not be in unity with others.
Much love!
There are two Israels. One natural and one spiritual. Only that which is spiritual belongs to God.
Jeremiah 31:31-37 KJV
31) Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32) Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
33) But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34) And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
35) Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts is his name:
36) If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.
37) Thus saith the LORD; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the LORD.
Ironclad, as they say. God's promise to the children of Jacob, the House of Israel, and the House of Judah, whom God brought out of Egypt.
Are the sun and moon still doing as they have done? I think we can all see this for ourselves.
Have you been to the center of the earth? Have you measured the bounderies of space? No, neither have I.
Much love!
31) Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32) Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
33) But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34) And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
35) Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts is his name:
36) If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.
37) Thus saith the LORD; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the LORD.
Ironclad, as they say. God's promise to the children of Jacob, the House of Israel, and the House of Judah, whom God brought out of Egypt.
Are the sun and moon still doing as they have done? I think we can all see this for ourselves.
Have you been to the center of the earth? Have you measured the bounderies of space? No, neither have I.
Much love!
Yes, I think we should all agree to that.
The popular rapture timing views end up often causing arguments, name calling, personal attacks, degrading remarks, and such. I have been reading through all the posts in this thread, seeing those results.
All of us though should be able to adopt the "watch rapture view". There is nothing to prove, nor disprove. We watch, be ready, and continue to watch. Should the rapture not happen pre70th week (pre-trib), we continue to watch and be ready. If the rapture does not happen mid-70th week (mid-trib), we continue to watch and be ready.
I started a thread called, The "watch rapture view". A freshly thought of view that unifies us all together.... but does not attack nor seek to disprove/prove the popular rapture views....
The reader can see how you avoid so many rebuttals above. You have to. They forbid your teaching. You have no answer to the truth.
This is another thread that leaves Pretrib in tatters.
The new covenant has already been instituted. Hello! Do you remember the cross? True Israel embraced it, and is still embracing. Apostate Israel rejects it.
LOL. Pretribbers have no answer to the truth. That is why they duck the issues and sidestep the Word. They cannot even give you one single proof-text. That is why they avoid.
The Light
Well-Known Member
The 7 seals happen in order. The 1st 4 seals are the beginning of sorrows in Matthew 24. The 5th seal is the great tribulation of Matthew 24
The 6th seal is the coming of Jesus in Matthew 24.
What Jesus tells us will happen in Matthew 24 is exact thing in Johns Revelation of the 1st six seals. Jesus does not tell us about Gods wrath.
The great tribulation is over when the 6th seal is opened and Jesus returns immediately after the tribulation of those days for the second harvest which is the second rapture.
Then the 7th seal is opened which is the wrath of God. The 7 trumpets happen in order. When the 7th trumpet sounds the mystery of God is finished.
Revelation 10
7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.
When the 7th trumpet sounds, the kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord.
Revelation 11
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
When the kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord............Armageddon is already. Jesus is ready to set up the millennial kingdom.
So the bowls do not happen after 7 trumpets. The bowls happen in the same timeframe as the trumpets. That timeframe is the 7th seal wrath of God. So John has one vision and sees 7 angels with trumpets. Then later John has another vision. It is the same time frame, Gods wrath, but it is a different vision and he sees 7 angels with bowls. It appears that the 1st trumpet sounds and then the 1st bowl. Then the second trumpet and second bowl etc. etc.
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