PRETRIB RAPTURE ANCIENT ROOTS

[rebuilder 454]

They cannot even show their 1st rapture in Revelation. Try and ask them. It is an elaborate man-made Jesuit invention.

Not a problem
It is in the 7 letters.

Next.

Ironic that you, with your false doctrine, accuses others of false doctrine.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Sadly, you are choosing a fool's destiny. You have no fear of God. What in this world do you hope to gain? Doing whatever you can to protect a stupid, ignorant, unscriptural doctrine. I leave you to your destiny, and forgive you.

Smart man.
Amil is one of the more sinister doctrines.

 

[WPM]

Not a problem
It is in the 7 letters.

Next.

Ironic that you, with your false doctrine, accuses others of false doctrine.

Again, zero proof, just noise. That just about sums up Pretrib.

 

[Davy]

Angels do not have the power the translate/change your body from corruptible to incorruptible. So Matthew 24:31 involving angels gathering is not referring to the resurrection/rapture of 1Thessalonians 4:14-18.

That is one sorry... excuse to NOT heed Lord Jesus' Own Words there in Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27 about the events of His future return and gathering of His Church AFTER the tribulation.

The last phrase of Matt.24:31 is about the gathering of the 'asleep' saints which Paul said Jesus will bring with Him from the heavenly. Paul said they will be RESURRECTED first (1 Thess.4:13-16).

Then the last phrase of Mark 13:27 is about the gathering of the saints that are still alive on earth, the very 1 Thess.4:17 Scripture that Paul taught.

That Jesus mentioned His angels will be involved in that gathering does not change those Scriptures being about His coming after the trib, and gathering of His saints to Himself.

 

[WPM]

Ah, the accuser of the brethren...

I'm glad you have found something that you thinks works for you. Pretty rough to grow up in a family of staunch Democrats and find anything that works. Denial is your best bet since you are unable to produce any scripture to support your claims.

Sadly, you are choosing a fool's destiny. You have no fear of God. What in this world do you hope to gain? Doing whatever you can to protect a stupid, ignorant, unscriptural doctrine. I leave you to your destiny, and forgive you.

It is noticeable how @marks never sees or rebukes these vicious posts.

 

[No Pre-TB]

It is noticeable how @Taken never sees or rebukes these vicious posts.

He (the Light) needs James 1:26 and James 3:8-11

Insults are a result when you’re backed into a corner and having very little rebuttal

Why can’t we talk like men? And why bring politics into a religious forum?

 

[The Light]

He (the Light) needs James 1:26 and James 3:8-11

Insults are a result when you’re backed into a corner and having very little rebuttal

Why can’t we talk like men? And why bring politics into a religious forum?

I'm not the one being dishonest and calling everyone a liar. The FACT that you are No Pre trib only proves that your doctrine sways your opinion.

 

[The Light]

It is noticeable how @marks never sees or rebukes these vicious posts.

You do have no fear of God. That's fact.

 

[WPM]

You do have no fear of God. That's fact.

LOL. Who do you think you are? Thank God you are not God, or there would be no hope for anyone.

You cannot answer simple questions to support your own theological claims because they are extra-biblical.

Your doctrine has been exposed here. That is why you are so vicious and frustrated. All we are getting now is frustrated bitterness. You have nothing of biblical worth to bring to the table. All you have is avoidance and insults. That is Pretrib in a nutshell. That is their MO.

1. Where is your Pretrib rapture in Revelation?
2. Where is your tribulation period following Matthew 24:44 (or any other rapture passage)?
3. Show us one Scripture that teaches that "the feasts of God are a picture of the end times"?
4. Show me New Testament Scripture that teaches that “there are two harvests? The grain harvest and the fruit harvest”?
5. Where is "the grain harvest" mentioned in the New Testament?
6. Where is "the fruit harvest " mentioned in the New Testament?
7. Where is "the barley harvest" that you have previously invented and foisted on Scripture mentioned in the New Testament?
8. Where is "the wheat harvest" that you have previously invented and foisted on Scripture mentioned in the New Testament?
9. Where is all this jargon about "on the Feast of Trumpets, the fall harvest feast" in the New Testament text or in any rapture passage?
10. Where in the New Testament does it say “there are two raptures – grain and fruit”?
11. Where does it say anywhere in Scripture that “Noah is a picture of the Pretrib rapture” and “Lot is a picture of the Jewish harvest”?

 

[No Pre-TB]

I'm not the one being dishonest and calling everyone a liar. The FACT that you are No Pre trib only proves that your doctrine sways your opinion.

If you’re being called a liar, that is wrong as well.

My eschatological reasoning is based on the inerrant word of God. I realize that differs from your own belief which you would argue is also based on the Bible. Because My opinion differs doesnt mean I don’t listen and research other peoples thoughts on the subject. Perhaps I’ll gain some knowledge? Perhaps I’ll prove I was right and that validity proves Im rightly dividing. Perhaps I will learn from another perspective regarding to apologetics.

All scripture must be proved by scripture and you should be able to come to a logical conclusion.

 

[The Light]

If you’re being called a liar, that is wrong as well.

My eschatological reasoning is based on the inerrant word of God. I realize that differs from your own belief which you would argue is also based on the Bible. Because My opinion differs doesnt mean I don’t listen and research other peoples thoughts on the subject. Perhaps I’ll gain some knowledge? Perhaps I’ll prove I was right and that validity proves Im rightly dividing. Perhaps I will learn from another perspective regarding to apologetics.

All scripture must be proved by scripture and you should be able to come to a logical conclusion.

That's sounds like common sense for a change.

Can you please provide proof that there is no pre trib rapture??????????

 

[No Pre-TB]

That's sounds like common sense for a change.

Can you please provide proof that there is no pre trib rapture??????????

Before we get into scripture, let’s set the stage to make sure we are talking about the same thing.

By saying Pre-Trib, are you saying:
1. Christ resurrects the dead and harpazo’s the living before Rev Ch 5?
2. That the wrath of God on the condemned begins at the first seal?
3. The wrath of God is equal to tribulation
4. Christ leaves heaven to gather us and to return and than Christ will leave heaven again to stand on the Mt of Olives at the 2nd coming
5. Christ resurrecting us can happen any moment

There is more, but I think that’s a good start for now. If you have a disagreement with any of those, let me know. These are more mainstream beliefs. If you have no issue, we can begin on point 1.

 

[WPM]

If you’re being called a liar, that is wrong as well.

My eschatological reasoning is based on the inerrant word of God. I realize that differs from your own belief which you would argue is also based on the Bible. Because My opinion differs doesnt mean I don’t listen and research other peoples thoughts on the subject. Perhaps I’ll gain some knowledge? Perhaps I’ll prove I was right and that validity proves Im rightly dividing. Perhaps I will learn from another perspective regarding to apologetics.

All scripture must be proved by scripture and you should be able to come to a logical conclusion.

I told him he was telling lies, and he was. What is wrong with calling out someone misrepresenting the facts of a conversation? Did Jesus not do that?

 

[The Light]

Before we get into scripture, let’s set the stage to make sure we are talking about the same thing.

By saying Pre-Trib, are you saying:
1. Christ resurrects the dead and harpazo’s the living before Rev Ch 5?

Before Revelation 6

2. That the wrath of God on the condemned begins at the first seal?

Negative. The wrath of God begins at the 7th seal.

3. The wrath of God is equal to tribulation

Negative. Tribulation is over at the 6th seal. The 7th seal is the wrath of God.

4. Christ leaves heaven to gather us and to return and than Christ will leave heaven again to stand on the Mt of Olives at the 2nd coming

Christ leaves heaven for the gathering from heaven and earth at the 6th seal. All return to heaven for the marriage supper......hence a great multitude in heaven in Revelation 7. Yes Christ will leave heaven with the armies of heaven and after Armageddon He will set His feet on the mount of Olives. This is the second advent.

The second coming occurs at the 6th seal when all eyes see the coming of the Lord.

5. Christ resurrecting us can happen any moment

Christ resurrecting us will happen on a harvest feast.

There is more, but I think that’s a good start for now. If you have a disagreement with any of those, let me know. These are more mainstream beliefs. If you have no issue, we can begin on point 1.

Ok. Fire away.

 

[WPM]

Before Revelation 6

Where is your Pretrib rapture in Rev before Rev 6?

 

[No Pre-TB]

I told him he was telling lies, and he was. What is wrong with calling out someone misrepresenting the facts of a conversation? Did Jesus not do that?

Was he misrepresenting his belief intentionally or was his belief at odds with yours? A lie is intentional deception. Jesus brought out the heart. We cannot see the heart and it’s difficult to see the fruit on a forum.

 

[WPM]

Was he misrepresenting his belief intentionally or was his belief at odds with yours? A lie is intentional deception. Jesus brought out the heart. We cannot see the heart and it’s difficult to see the fruit on a forum.

I was not talking about his beliefs. I was talking about him repeatedly claiming he had addressed/ answered my questions, when he had clearly not. He evasively addressed one question and ducked around it. That is what I was confronting.

 

[No Pre-TB]

Before Revelation 6


Negative. The wrath of God begins at the 7th seal.


Negative. Tribulation is over at the 6th seal. The 7th seal is the wrath of God.


Christ leaves heaven for the gathering from heaven and earth at the 6th seal. All return to heaven for the marriage supper......hence a great multitude in heaven in Revelation 7. Yes Christ will leave heaven with the armies of heaven and after Armageddon He will set His feet on the mount of Olives. This is the second advent.

The second coming occurs at the 6th seal when all eyes see the coming of the Lord.




Christ resurrecting us will happen on a harvest feast.


Ok. Fire away.

Ok, let’s work on the first part. You believe we are resurrected before the 6th seal, which is before the wrath which begins at the 7th seal.

In order for us to be resurrected before the 6th seal, I’d look for a few things. To name a few:

1. A last trumpet as the final trumpet in a series or the last trumpet as in no other could blow after it. With this, id still have to consider there yet remains 7 trumpets to be blown in a series. If we take this as the last trumpet and let’s pretend it is in the 7th trumpet, is there any logic to that? Something I’d explore before casting it out.

2. What does scripture say about the timing of our change and does it harmonize with a resurrection at, before or after the 6th seal?

3. A hypothetical: Would an exiled leader reward his subjects, who eagerly await his return, before he’s crowned King or afterwards?

 

[No Pre-TB]

I was not talking about his beliefs. I was talking about him repeatedly claiming he had addressed/ answered my questions, when he had clearly not. He evasively addressed one question and ducked around it. That is what I was confronting.

every man should be able to give an account of his beliefs. I’d hope none of us would duck out. I know you will give answers on your beliefs WPM. You are pretty consistent, that’s a good quality. I’d hope we all would even if we have to do it often.

 

[rebuilder 454]

39 pages of arguments with little facts. And as a few said, too many personal opinions with doctrines of man rather than posting scripture. You have built up a defense against the truth and it’s impossible for you to see because you enjoy living in untruth.

I pray for all the brothers here that they may talk to each in love by showing grace and are willing to teach others patiently by using scripture. Let’s leave personal insults of the flesh out of the thread

Pre is easy.
No additives
No pollutants.
Jesus words