Proof that Jesus is God

[Wrangler]

Jesus told people he was God after performing miracles, the apostles were performing miracles only because the spirit of God worked them

Jesus NEVER said he was God. He performed miracles and forgave sins for the same reason the Apostles. God delegated power. We know Jesus was not God for many reasons. One is he said he was GIVEN all authority.

Another way we know Jesus is not God is that Jesus died.

 

[robert derrick]

"Another way we know Jesus is not God is that Jesus died"

And there you have it folks, straight from the whited horse's mouth (Rev 6): Jesus proved He was not God by dying. On the cross. He proved the unbelieving Jews were right, that He blasphemed when He tried to make Himself God (John 10), by declaring Himself to be the Christ, the 'Son of the blessed'. (Mark 14)

And that is exactly who we are dealing with here. Jesus proved He was not God by dying. I really just would not believe someone even posing with lip service to honor Jesus, would actually allow that out in public.

"For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption." (Acts 2)

Christ was the Holy One of Israel coming down out of heaven, and was named Jesus when born as a man, to pay the price for sins, that only God could pay and forgive.

And this blaspheming foolish rogue 'prophet' and 'miracle worker' 'Jesus' proved He was not the Christ and the Holy One, as He claimed, by dying. On the cross.

Let it sink in folks. This is exactly who we are dealing with. And frankly, I don't even think unbelieving Jews have said it this starkly. Or have they?

Jesus Christ yesterday, today, and forever the true God from everlasting begotten of God in the last days to Redeem His people by dying on the cross for our sins...

 

[robert derrick]

"...forgave sins for the same reason the Apostles."

The apostles forgave sins? I thought only God could forgive sins? Like the God Jesus, begotten of God.

 

[NayborBear]

Not sure what you are getting at? So identify ourselves.
Do you believe Jesus was created?

Jehovahites are those who believe Jehovah is Lord God only, not Jesus, who was created by Jehovah for the purpose of 'performing' the creation of Jehovah God. And since they would agree we must not worship created beings and creatures as the Creator, then they cannot worship Jesus as Lord, but Jehovah only.

Our need is to come to Jesus, who is God the Son, that we may go to God the Father. I did not come to God by the Father'. It was and is the name of Jesus who draws us to Himself, that we may know God and the Father (John 12)(Phillip 2).

Let's drill down on this eh? What do you mean when asking if Jesus was "created?"
I believe the "office" of Jesus as High Priest and Kinsmen Redeemer was created.
By God in His Loving Kindness towards His "children", which endures forever.
I believe this was done after Genesis 1:2. But, one would have to acknowledge that there was an earth and heaven age BEFORE the one we are presently living in. Which I don't "think" you do, according to the language you use in your postings.
Genesis 1
2 And the earth was (BECAME) without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
Jeremiah 4
23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.
24 I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.
25 I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.
26 I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the Lord, and by his fierce anger.
27 For thus hath the Lord said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end.
(Start Genesis 1:3)
2 Peter 3
4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:

(Peter commentating concerning Paul)
16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. (only Spiritual Discernment will you obtain eyes that see and ears that hear)

I believe that the man Jesus who, being born OF woman, albeit, Divinely Conceived from a virgin, although Miraculous in itself? Was still created!


Psalm 45:
7 Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

Who is David talking about here? If NOT Messiah? Then whom?
And IF Messiah? "thy Fellows", are created beings? And Messiah is NOT?

And here:
Job 1:
6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them.
7 And the Lord said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the Lord, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

Id BET ya a dollar to a donut? That these "sons OF God" are created beings!
As ALSO is "satan!" Although, it's been his legacy in this earth and heaven age in doing his DAMNDEST in causing mankind to believe "he" WASN'T created!

And yet? these "sons of God" were created....Yet, Messiah, who is ALSO a "Son of God" albeit God's only BEGOTTEN, is NOT created?

Now, when Jesus sez "I and the Father are ONE!"
And, "No one comes UNTO the Father, but by Me?"
I've bought into that! Lock, Stock, and Barrel!
ONE Spirit! ONE God! ONE Way UNTO God The Father!

Now, may I ask you a question?
What does "fulness of the gentiles" mean to you?

 

[robert derrick]

"LORD is Jehovah. The small Lord is Jesus."

So, first they never read how the Lord He is God. Scripture is supplied stating that the Lord He is God.

And thus, they must acknowledge that the Lord He is God. However, since Scripture also says there is one Lord Jesus, and He therefore is God, they must do what?

That's right. They introduce the doctrine of lordly gradation: The one Lord Jesus is not the one BIG LORD Jehovah, but only the one tiny little Lord Jesus...Therefore there is one big LORD and one little Lord...

And so, it was the BIG LORD that said unto our little Lord (Psalms 110): "Hey, little Guy. I feel sorry for you, and you're not such a bad little created fellow of mine after all, so I The BIG LORD am going to give you a little throne to sit in. But, though your little throne is not as BIG as MINE, for I am the BIG LORD Jehovah, it will however be eternal, though littler than MINE..."

I told you these people are not a serious people and not to be taken seriously! This is even more childishly insulting to any intelligent person, than their getting rid of 'The Word was God' as a figurative reference!

If these Jehovahites weren't so cruel of heart and past feeling, even for our Lord Jesus who died on the cross for us, and thus proved He wasn't Who He said He was by dying, and likewise proving the Jews right to crucify Him for blasphemy....(I really just can't hardly get past these 'people'. But then, pagans never were really known for their compassion, mercy, and love of God)

They would be funny. In an entirely twistedly and utterly ridiculous way...Jehovamaniacs.

 

[tigger 2]

"...forgave sins for the same reason the Apostles."

The apostles forgave sins? I thought only God could forgive sins? Like the God Jesus, begotten of God.

“Only God can forgive (aphiemi) sins,” say certain trinitarians, “and Jesus forgave sin, Mark 2:7. Therefore, Jesus must be God!”

So, John 20:20-23 “proves” that the disciples also must be God, right?

 

[robert derrick]

Since there is one BIG LORD Jehovah and one little Lord Jesus, the Jehovahites must from now on (after making up the Lord's gradation) specify which LORD/Lord? they are speaking of.

Else, how else would we know. We are just simple little sheepies who always thought there was only one one Lord...

Frankly, I'm surprised these maniacally rabid Jehovahites even allowed our Lord Jesus a big 'L'. After all, they would put 'H'im dangerously and blasphemously too close to the BIG One LORD...

This is just too much. They have flipped it on us. We now find ourselves worshipping the little Lord, while they get to worship the BIG LORD. I mean, is that even fair?

 

[robert derrick]

Let's drill down on this eh? What do you mean when asking if Jesus was "created?"
I believe the "office" of Jesus as High Priest and Kinsmen Redeemer was created.
By God in His Loving Kindness towards His "children", which endures forever.
I believe this was done after Genesis 1:2. But, one would have to acknowledge that there was an earth and heaven age BEFORE the one we are presently living in. Which I don't "think" you do, according to the language you use in your postings.
Genesis 1
2 And the earth was (BECAME) without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
Jeremiah 4
23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.
24 I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.
25 I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.
26 I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the Lord, and by his fierce anger.
27 For thus hath the Lord said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end.
(Start Genesis 1:3)
2 Peter 3
4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:

(Peter commentating concerning Paul)
16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. (only Spiritual Discernment will you obtain eyes that see and ears that hear)

I believe that the man Jesus who, being born OF woman, albeit, Divinely Conceived from a virgin, although Miraculous in itself? Was still created!


Psalm 45:
7 Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

Who is David talking about here? If NOT Messiah? Then whom?
And IF Messiah? "thy Fellows", are created beings? And Messiah is NOT?

And here:
Job 1:
6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them.
7 And the Lord said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the Lord, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

Id BET ya a dollar to a donut? That these "sons OF God" are created beings!
As ALSO is "satan!" Although, it's been his legacy in this earth and heaven age in doing his DAMNDEST in causing mankind to believe "he" WASN'T created!

And yet? these "sons of God" were created....Yet, Messiah, who is ALSO a "Son of God" albeit God's only BEGOTTEN, is NOT created?

Now, when Jesus sez "I and the Father are ONE!"
And, "No one comes UNTO the Father, but by Me?"
I've bought into that! Lock, Stock, and Barrel!
ONE Spirit! ONE God! ONE Way UNTO God The Father!

Now, may I ask you a question?
What does "fulness of the gentiles" mean to you?

Ok, that's all I asked. Just wanted to know if you were a fellow Jehovahite, or not. And since you are, and therefore only regurgitate yourself without responding to specific points of others: I will respond to you personally once and once only. (After this, I will only quote any new nonsense you and your Jehovamanian bedfellows my come up with...)

The begotten God was begotten of God, not created. This is the difference between created angles and mankind, the creatures of God, such as Lucifer (Ezek 28).

Nowhere in Scripture is the promised Messiah, nor the Lord Jesus ever said to be by God. We can rightly say the begotten God Jesus, and The God Jesus begotten of God, and Jesus the begotten Son of God, etc... But it is a fabrication of liars to say Jesus was the created Son of God, or was the Created God.

That is paganism 101, which all of ye are...

 

[NayborBear]

That's right. They introduce the doctrine of lordly gradation: The one Lord Jesus is not the one BIG LORD Jehovah, but only the one tiny little Lord Jesus...Therefore there is one big LORD and one little Lord...

By Jove I think yer gettin' it!

As far as this "doctrine of lordly gradation" goes?
I did not introduce this!
Isaiah did!
RAT CHEER!
Isaiah 9:6
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

And it can't be the Caesar's government! Can it?
(scratches my head)
Who's GOVERNMENT CAN it be?
Hmmm?
Mebbe God's GOVERNMENT?
NAH! CAN'T BE!
Can it?

 

[NayborBear]

Ok, that's all I asked. Just wanted to know if you were a fellow Jehovahite, or not. And since you are, and therefore only regurgitate yourself without responding to specific points of others: I will respond to you personally once and once only. (After this, I will only quote any new nonsense you and your Jehovamanian bedfellows my come up with...)

The begotten God was begotten of God, not created. This is the difference between created angles and mankind, the creatures of God, such as Lucifer (Ezek 28).

Nowhere in Scripture is the promised Messiah, nor the Lord Jesus ever said to be by God. We can rightly say the begotten God Jesus, and The God Jesus begotten of God, and Jesus the begotten Son of God, etc... But it is a fabrication of liars to say Jesus was the created Son of God, or was the Created God.

That is paganism 101, which all of ye are...

Try to "chew it up" for 'em?
Lessons in futility folks!

 

[Wrangler]

Jesus proved He was not God by dying.

Agreed. Sounds better when you say it.

The VOICE translation uses the word Eternal to emphasize that the LORD God alone does not die and always was, not created - unlike the begotten Son.

 

[robert derrick]

"I am the LORD, your Holy One, the creator of Israel, your King." (Isaiah 43)

"For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption." (Acts 2)

The Lord, the Holy One, creator of Israel, the King: Jesus Came down from heaven, begotten of God as a man, died on the cross, His soul not left in hell, and the Holy One's flesh not see corruption.

Now, I suppose the BIG LORD is the LORD, but then the Holy One, creator, and King are little ones. So The little Lord Jesus may not be the BIG LORD, but He certainly is the little Holy One, creator of Israel, and King.

But then, the BIG LORD is your Holy One and the creator and your King, which is the little Lord Jesus.

It just gets so confusing when Scripture is twisted and English is mangled in order to accommodate false teaching...

 

[robert derrick]

"LORD is Jehovah. The small Lord is Jesus."

I've heard of the little baby Jesus, but not this small Lord Jesus.

 

[robert derrick]

"God and we are in one Spirit per John 17:22. Proving we too are God OR Jesus is not God."

I think this is saying: We and God are in one Spirit. And so either we are God, or Jesus is not God.

Which still makes no sense. Not in English grammar, but perhaps if they supplied the Greek...

In any case, going to the normal English Scripture John 17:21 "That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me."

God the Father in God the Son, and God the Son in God the Father, and all believers made one in them both: God the Father and God the Son.

Don't see an either/or here.

All they who are in God the Father and the Son will be made one in Them, even as they are One God together (17:22).

Which of course excludes them that don't want to be in God the Son and Christ of God, and want rather to be in Jehovah only.

The created christ is a false christ created by the imaginations and machinations of Jehovahite gods of the Greek.

Just sticking with the Scriptures as plainly written makes the most sense, which is like, duh!

 

[BroRando]

“Only God can forgive (aphiemi) sins,” say certain trinitarians, “and Jesus forgave sin, Mark 2:7. Therefore, Jesus must be God!”

So, John 20:20-23 “proves” that the disciples also must be God, right?

Good point. Didn't Jesus prove that he has the power to forgive sins as the Son of man? However, in order for you to know that the Son of man has authority on earth to forgive sins—” then he said to the paralytic: “Get up, pick up your stretcher, and go to your home.” (Matthew 9:6)

How about this one about the Apostles? After saying this he blew on them and said to them: “Receive holy spirit. If you forgive the sins of anyone, they are forgiven; if you retain those of anyone, they are retained.” (John 20:22-23)

Isn't the Word of God... God's Personal Messenger? I am sending an angel ahead of you to guard you on the way and to bring you into the place that I have prepared. Pay attention to him, and obey his voice. Do not rebel against him, for he will not pardon your transgressions, because my name is in him. (Exodus 23:20-21)

Jesus when translated means 'Jehovah is Salvation.'

 

[Cooper]

The pagan god of the Jehovahites. A 4th century BCE drachm (quarter shekel) coin from the Persian province of Yehud Medinata, possibly representing Yahweh seated on a winged and wheeled sun-throne.

The I AM brought the people out of Egypt and took them safely over the water. Then, when Moses married the daughter of a Kenite Priest, he introduced the Israelites to Yahweh, a god of war. Forsaking the I AM, Yahweh became the national god of the Israilites and is still their warlike god is to this very day. The I AM in heaven and on earth, has the same nature as Jesus.

Yahweh was the national god of the kingdoms of Israel (Samaria) and Judah. His origins reach at least to the early Iron Age and likely to the Late Bronze Age. In the oldest biblical literature he is a storm-and-warrior deity who leads the heavenly army against Israel's enemies; at that time the Israelites worshipped him alongside a variety of Canaanite gods and goddesses, including El, Asherah and Baal, but in later centuries El and Yahweh became conflated and El-linked epithets such as El Shaddai came to be applied to Yahweh alone, and other gods and goddesses such as Baal and Asherah were absorbed into the Yahwistic religion.

Towards the end of the Babylonian captivity (6th century BCE), the very existence of foreign gods was denied, and Yahweh was proclaimed as the creator of the cosmos and the one true God of all the world. During the Second Temple period, speaking the name of Yahweh in public became regarded as taboo. Jews began to substitute the divine name with the word adonai (אֲדֹנָי‬), meaning "Lord", and after the Temple was destroyed in 70 CE the original pronunciation was forgotten. Outside Judaism, Yahweh was frequently invoked in Graeco-Roman magical texts from the 2nd century BCE to the 5th century CE under the names Iao, Adonai, Sabaoth, and Eloai. Yahweh - Wikipedia

Give me Jesus every day. He is the image of the Father, so not a god of war like the god of the Jews, neither is Jesus the God of one nation, but the Saviour of the world.
.

 

[GracePeace]

1. Jesus is the true God (I John 5:20)
To believe otherwise is idolatry (5:21)

2. Jesus is the Word, and the Word was God (John 1:1).
And still is...

3. Jesus is the Alpha and Omega (Rev 1:11)
It is not God the Father standing behind John speaking to him...

The 'Alpha and Omega' is the Lord which was, and is, and is to come. The Almighty. (Rev 1:8).

He 'that was, and is, and is to come' is Lord God Almighty (Rev 4:8)

Jesus is the Lord God Almighty.

4. To say that Jesus is the Word that was created in the beginning, is misquote Scripture (John 1:1), so as to say instead:
'In the beginning of the Word' or 'In the beginning was the Word created'.

That is exactly the same as saying in Gen 1:1:
'In the Beginning of God' or 'In the beginning God was created'
God was not created; therefore, Jesus was not created. There was no beginning of God, therefore, there was no beginning of the Word.

The false teaching that Jesus was and is a created being since the beginning of creation, is a paganist and idolatrous deism. If in fact, Jesus the Son of God was created by God, then there is at least one other god in heaven like God and with God. And if God created 1 other god like Himself but not Himself, then He likely has created many other gods, and shall do so again.

Also, if Jesus were a created being by God and not God Himself, then He would only be like God, but not God Himself.

But God did not create another god like Himself. He did however create an archangel who wanted to, and still does, make himself like God (Is 14), and to be a god (Gen 3). And God calls him the gold of this world, the devil.

It is this god that also teaches that Jesus the Son of God is not God Himself, but only another god like himself. (Like being god-brothers)

If Jesus is the created Son, then he is only like God, not God Himself. But Jesus is not 'like God', He is the true God Himself.

If Jesus is in fact a created being like God, then we could call Him, Apollo, or better yet Apollyon.

It would be difficult to deny that Jesus is God : God was married to Israel under the Old Covenant, and Jesus is husband to the People of God today.

 

[BroRando]

It's interesting how Satan denies that Jesus is God and Hell fire is eternal. Hell will be filled with those who don't believe in Hell.

There's no scriptures that states that 'Jesus is God." If you find one, let me know. The same ones then claim that God will burn you forever in an eternal hell?

They spend all their energy to make the claim that Jesus is God. But God is the one that going to burn you in an eternal burning fire? How come trinitarians never state that Jesus is going to burn you in an eternal burning hell?

Are they lying?? It seems so.. why? Because everyone in Hell gets resurrected because hell is forced to empty out its dead. The scripture teaches "that there is going to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous." (Acts 24:15)

Trinitarians don't think that Jesus Christ has the power to resurrect anyone from an eternal burning hell?

“And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their WORKS.” (Rev 20:13)

The same ones make the claim that works are worthless so don't do them. Then how come they are to be judged by their works??

Jesus half brother James states, "You see that a man is to be declared righteous by works and not by faith alone." (James 2:4)

Ohhhhh... snap

 

[kcnalp]

There's no scriptures that states that 'Jesus is God." If you find one, let me know.

John 1 The Word was God. ... The Word became flesh and dwelt among us.
Jesus is God!

The same ones then claim that God will burn you forever in an eternal hell?

I didn't say who, but He certainly will burn BILLIONS of humans in the everlasting fire "forever and ever".
Revelation 20:10 (NKJV)
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

They spend all their energy to make the claim that Jesus is God. But God is the one that going to burn you in an eternal burning fire? How come trinitarians never state the Jesus is going to burn you in an eternal burning hell?

Does it matter Who will burn unbelievers in Hell?
Matthew 13:41-42 (NKJV)
41 The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, 42 and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Are they lying?? It seems so.. why? Because everyone in Hell gets resurrected because hell is forced to empty out its dead. The scripture teaches "that there is going to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous." (Acts 24:15)

Revelation 20:10 (NKJV)
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Trinitarians don't think that Jesus Christ has the power to resurrect anyone from an eternal burning hell?

“And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their WORKS.” (Rev 20:13)

The same ones make the claim that works are worthless so don't do them. Then how come they are to be judged by their works??

Jesus half brother James states, "You see that a man is to be declared righteous by works and not by faith alone." (James 2:4)

Ohhhhh... snap

Another Kingdom Hall victim?

 

[NayborBear]

The pagan god of the Jehovahites. A 4th century BCE drachm (quarter shekel) coin from the Persian province of Yehud Medinata, possibly representing Yahweh seated on a winged and wheeled sun-throne. The I AM brought the people out of Egypt and took them safely over the water. Then, when Moses married the daughter of a Kenite Priest.....

A person or family, or even a small tribe of people residing in a geographical area having the reputation of "a land where the kenites dwell", does not mean that they (person, family, or small tribe) are "sons of cain."