Proof that Jesus is God

[keithr]

NayborBear said: ↑
If I may expound on your comment?
God "conceived" Mary with the pure DNA! The same DNA as was Adam in the beginning, as well as Eve!

So then this entity you call Mary did not age as in dying. . the wage of sin. . Where is she? Can she be dug up like Pope Formousus ?

You have misunderstood. NayborBear is implying that Mary became pregnant when God planted an embryo with perfect DNA into her womb. God did not change Mary's DNA so that she became physically perfect, but even if He had she would still not have lived forever because she, like everyone since Adam and Eve, was born with a sinful nature, and she does not have access to the Tree of Life.

 

[robert derrick]

"No he didn't! You cannot raise yourself from death, by definition of what death is!" -Jehovahite

"Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again. No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again." (John 10)

Jesus laid His eternal and everlasting life down on the cross willingly for our sins, and He took His eternal and everlasting life again in resurrection for our justification. (Rom 4)

You see, once you begin to make your own definitions of what things are, especially as pertaining to the things of God, you separate yourself from His things in order to bask in your own things. And definition of things.

Jehovahites are deniers of the Son as God, and so also deny the Father as God (1 John 2), that they may worship in the cult of a BIGGER GOD they call 'Jehovah', who's real name is Satan, an angel of light blinding their eyes with an abundance of pseudo-Greek profundity, offered up as scholarly Knowledge and Insight into just how Jesus is not The Lord God, but is in actuality only a littler Lord, who doesn't even begin to rate with their BIGGER LORD 'Jehovah'.

I did not make this stuff up. They did. I say let them keep making up more.

 

[keithr]

"Jesus has become the collateral of a better covenant." -Jehovah cult worshipper. Jehovahite.

What's your point? Don't you believe or understand what Paul is saying in Hebrews 7?

So, Jesus's death on the cross was just collateral damage. The smaller Lord Jesus, sacrificed for the BIGGER LORD Jehovah.

I guess that proves you don't understand it!

 

[robert derrick]

Get ready, He is coming. If you are not ready to bow a knee and worship our Lord and Savior, then I guess you will have to wait and see what happens.

Well, as a Jehovahite warrior, I would say that we bow at His name only (Phillipians 2), but not before Him actually, since our BIGGER LORD Jehovah would never have us bow the knee and worship a littler Lord Jesus, that He created and made just to 'perform' HIS creation.

Which I must confess, even I a faithful Jehovahite, was possibly a mistake by my BIGGER LORD Jehovah, since that littler Lord Jesus began to go around claiming Himself to be Christ and God. And now we have all YOU ignorant-of-the-Greek toads running around actually believing him!!

When I get to Jehovah Kingdom Hall Heaven, I will ask HIM why HE didn't just 'perform 'the creation by HIMSELF, and so avoid all this garbage about Jesus being Creator, by Whom all things were created...

I mean, just because that littler lord and schmuck 'performed' the creation, it doesn't mean all things were created by him, which would mean he is actually Creator of all things. That title is reserved only for our GREATEST AND BIGGEST LORD OF ALL: Jehovah.

(I could go on like this, like, forever. Someone exorcise me from telepathing Jehovahitism. Please.)

 

[robert derrick]

"God did not change Mary's DNA so that she became physically perfect.."

I will not sit idly by and watch blasphemers blaspheme the Holy and Blessed Virgin Mary!

I will not, I tell you. NOT!

Denounce Jesus as God, no problem, but you stay away from our Holy and Blessed Virgin Mary!

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

In response to "Jesus raised himself from the dead", you said:

No he didn't! You cannot raise yourself from death, by definition of what death is

You are blind to that concept.
John 2:19
John 10:18

Again wrong. How can you receive authority unless someone of higher authority gives it to you? Jesus said after his resurrection, "All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth" (Matthew 28:18) - given to him by the only one who could give it to him - God.

Correct. Jesus pre-existed with the Father and the Holy Spirit, which by the way raised Jesus. Check that out, all three raised Jesus.
But God became a man and relinquished His glory for awhile. He briefly show it to the disciples on the Mt. Of Transfiguration. Don't you recall on the cross he asked the Father to glorify him again as he once was in the beginning? After his resurrection, His glory, power and authority was returned to Him.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Well, as a Jehovahite warrior, I would say that we bow at His name only (Phillipians 2), but not before Him actually, since our BIGGER LORD Jehovah would never have us bow the knee and worship a littler Lord Jesus, that He created and made just to 'perform' HIS creation.

Wait a minute, that conflicts with your OP. If you are a Jehovah Witness, how could you write the OP? I know that it is a dead end road to debate with a JW, useless, so I will bow out.

P.S. I missed the last paragraph ... You were just pretending - don't do that I don't know you well enough.

 

[robert derrick]

"For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist." (Col 1)

Contrary to popular Jehovamania, the Creator and Lord Jesus was not created in the beginning of creation to help 'perform' the creation.

God the Word was before all things created and was with God, when all things were created, because the Word was God. (John 1:1)

(I still can't get over the notion that the Lord 'performed' the creation. I mean, was he like the first performance artist or something? These Jehovamaniac people are a joke.)

 

[robert derrick]

Wrong. I know that it is a dead end road to debate with a JW, useless, so I will now out.

Good man! Welcome to the club. To engage them personally in a 'reply' option is futile and insulting to our intelligence.

Just let them keep talking and observe. By seeing certainly how not to think and believe and speak, we more certainly know what to think and believe and say on behalf of our Lord God and Savior Jesus Christ...

"For the accuser of our brethren is cast down. And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony..." (Rev 12)

 

[Cooper]

Don't be silly! God cannot beget himself and give birth to Himself! This is the type of confused nonsense that Trinitarins have to come up with in order to try and make sense of the nonsensical Trinity doctrine! Believe the straightforward Scriptures - God begat a son, who was present with God before any other living being and the physical universe were created, and later God translated His son into a human body in a virgins womb, so that His Son "became flesh, and lived among us" (John 1:14), and he was then given the name of Yeshua (Jesus).

If God can make living things from the ground, he can with Mary.
At creation God did not need DNA.
.

 

[GracePeace]

Thank you much for your point.
This is a good case for rejecting the notion that the natural Jews and human nation of Israel today is the sole object of God in Revelation.

Christians today are now the Israel of God. The natural branches are now cut off, because they killed their own Husband: the Lord God Jesus Christ. Jehovah in the flesh. There is no more natural people on earth that God has any special interest in nor regard for. We are all sinners before Him: Gentiles and nations of Gentiles separate from God, which includes every nation on the planet: Russian, American, British, Israeli, Arab, Chinese, etc... God only looks to individuals now to repent and believe His Son and be grafted into His holy Tree and Vine. (John 15)

Today only in Christ Jesus are any 'married' to the Lord, as a bride adorned in jewels, according to the prophesies of the last days (Isaiah 61). We are in those last days, since the promised Messiah came as the Son of God and spoke to us Personally (Heb 1). The last days prophecies have been fulfilled in the coming of Jesus Christ, Who confirmed His Covenant first to the Jews and now to everyone (Rom 15).

Any natural branch can be grafted in, but only as Christians (Rom 11). There is no more naturally born nation of Israel with God anymore. The only 'nation' that God has any personal dealings with is His holy nation, peculiar people, commonwealth of Israel, who walk after the Spirit, and not after the flesh. (Exodus 19) (1 Peter 2) There is no Jew and Gentile in Christ, nor is there any Jew and Gentile before God anymore. There is only the Christian 'holy nation' and Gentile nations, of which the current Israeli nation is just one among many.

The very fact that Scripture now makes difference between the New Israel of God who walk after the Spirit and the old Israel after the flesh (1 Cor 10), as well as difference between the Jews' religion and Jesus Christ's pure religion (Gal 1)(James), proves that the naturally-born Jews today are just another people among lost people, and their religion is just another false religion among false religions, whether Jewish, Muslim, Buddhist, Jehovahite, etc...

The Jews finally got what they always wanted: to be rid of the Lord God and to be a nation unto themselves like any other nation on earth. As in the days of Saul (1 Sam 8), and so they had their 'Husband' the Lord and God Jesus killed, the Son and heir of the vineyard (Matthew 21), and made themselves free to 'marry' another. (Rom 7)

In Rev 11, it is not the 'Gentiles' that tread the outer court, but the 'Nations', which includes the national Jewish nation of Israel. The 'temple of God' spoken of is not a building made with hands of men, but is God's temple in heaven, and the outer court is earth, which is His footstool. Heaven is His throne, which is in His temple, and Christians believers and worshippers of Jesus as Lord sit in that heavenly place (Eph 1, 2, & 3)). And that true temple of God will be opened in heaven for all to see after the First Resurrection during the Lord's millennial reign on earth (Rev 11:19)

I would not agree there is no natural Israel anymore (just read Romans 11) but I agree we need faith not an ethnicity to be saved.

 

[Wrangler]

Get ready, He is coming. If you are not ready to bow a knee and worship our Lord and Savior, then I guess you will have to wait and see what happens.

A threat is not an argument. Acknowledging I have a President does not mean I do not have a governor.

 

[robert derrick]

In response to "Jesus raised himself from the dead", you said:


You are blind to that concept.
John 2:19
John 10:18


Correct. Jesus pre-existed with the Father and the Holy Spirit, which by the way raised Jesus. Check that out, all three raised Jesus.
But God became a man and relinquished His glory for awhile. He briefly show it to the disciples on the Mt. Of Transfiguration. Don't you recall on the cross he asked the Father to glorify him again as he once was in the beginning? After his resurrection, His glory, power and authority was returned to Him.

Too true: "Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again." (John 10)

In the beginning of creation was the Word with God to create all things by Him, Who was before all things created, being with God from everlasting...

And the Word came down out of heaven and was made flesh by God, and was called the Son of God, Who's name is Jesus. He is that true God that laid down His everlasting life on the cross for His sheep, and took it again in Resurrection and glory, and is now known as the only begotten God and Son of the Father, Who remained in heaven alone to give commandment and power by the Spirit to God the Son on earth, to do the work of salvation for man.

And so the Scripture was fulfilled for the first time and in the last days prophesied of His coming: "The LORD he is God in heaven above, and upon the earth beneath." (Deut 4)

Now, if someone would rather believe that Jesus, the littler Lord, was created by the BIGGER LORD 'Jehovah' in order to help 'perform' the creation, (which is Jehovah's alone, because it is till HIS creation and not little Lord Jesus'), who would then be summarily dispatched to the earth as just another mortal kind of guy, to be crucified and die on a cross, in order to prove he was not the Creator and God after all, but was later 'blessed' with immortality, because the BIGGEST OF ALL LORDS Jehovah really like how Jesus did some good things while on earth...

Then go ahead. And make a movie about it and call it: "Jesus Christ, the next Herakles on earth"

 

[Wrangler]

You can't make this stuff up folks. When the enemies of the Lord God and Savior Jesus Christ keep exposing themselves, you just let them keep on talking.

2 beings. Our master and Savior, Jesus. And his Father, the LORD God, who alone is God. This is an application of the 1C.

 

[keithr]

"No he didn't! You cannot raise yourself from death, by definition of what death is!" -Jehovahite

"Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again. No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again." (John 10)

Jesus laid His eternal and everlasting life down on the cross willingly for our sins, and He took His eternal and everlasting life again in resurrection for our justification. (Rom 4)

Jesus was not immortal, therefore did not have eternal life, before his resurrection, otherwise he could not have died. This is why he was in such distress and sweat drops of blood in the garden of Gethsemane - because if he had sinned at all during his human life then his death would not pay the redemption price for mankind, and having sinned he too would have to pay the penalty for sin - eternal death.

John 10:17-18 (ESV):
17) For this reason the Father loves me, because I lay down my life that I may take it up again.
18) No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This charge I have received from my Father.”

Jesus is here saying that he has authority from God to lay down his life in sacrifice as the redemption price to redeem mankind - God anointed him for that purpose (Messiah means anointed). Nobody else has been given authority to do that. God (our Father, Yahweh) told Jesus to do so, and promised that He would raise Jesus to life again.

Regarding Romans 4:

22) And therefore it was imputed to him [Abraham] for righteousness.
23) Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;
24) But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;
25) Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.​

It says that righteousness is imputed to us if we believe in God (Yahweh, our Father) who raised Jesus from death. I do believe in God, whereas you have a confused belief of who God and God's son are; you believe they're both God, along with another unnamed being.

Jehovahites are deniers of the Son as God, and so also deny the Father as God (1 John 2), ...

I have have always claimed that Jesus is the son of God, and that he is a mighty god, second only to God himself, to whom God has given all power and authority in heaven and on earth (Matthew 28:18). I have never denied that the Father is God - in fact I've been saying all along that Yahweh, our Father and Jesus' Father, is the only true almighty God, and as Jesus said, Yahweh is greater than Jesus.

As for 1 John 2 (WEB):

20) You have an anointing from the Holy One, and you all have knowledge.​

Note it says One not Three.

21) I have not written to you because you don’t know the truth, but because you know it, and because no lie is of the truth.
22) Who is the liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the Antichrist, he who denies the Father and the Son.​

I have never denied that Jesus is the Messiah. I have confirmed what Jesus claimed, that he is God's son.

23) Whoever denies the Son, the same doesn’t have the Father. He who confesses the Son has the Father also.​

I confess that Jesus is the son of God, the Messiah. Just like Peter did (Matthew 16:16-17):

16) Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”
17) Jesus answered him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven.​

 

[Colossians116]

Some said they experienced a bodily change. I am almost certain the first resurrection happened. They stated their heartbeats quickened and they gained a refreshed spiritual awareness. However, it is being tamed by a constant smoking and suffering as according to Revelation 15:8, Revelation 8:4 as well as Exodus 14:24

These were unintentional (as in not planned from any outside source but God) and happened before Christ's Sh'khinah appeared.

3 I heard a loud voice from the throne say, “See! God’s Sh’khinah is with mankind, and he will live with them. They will be his people, and he himself, God-with-them, will be their God.[b] 4 He will wipe away every tear from their eyes. There will no longer be any death; and there will no longer be any mourning, crying or pain; because the old order has passed away.”

He was the perfect sacrifice. Humble throughout. Not a hint of pride, but only of wrathful anger. Small penis. Much like a child. This is why if you don't believe now you probably never will.

Imgur: The magic of the Internet

 

[Wrangler]

Language. Father. Son. Not the same being.

 

[Cooper]

A threat is not an argument. Acknowledging I have a President does not mean I do not have a governor.

The same applies when you say,"the Bible does not say that."
.

 

[robert derrick]

I would not agree there is no natural Israel anymore (just read Romans 11) but I agree we need faith not an ethnicity to be saved.

I agree there is still natural national Israel. It's over in Palestine. It is called the nation of Israel, and you must be a born Jew to be a citizen thereof.

But that nation is now just one among many on the earth. They are now their own nation with their own religion, just as they wanted when they had Jesus crucified. God now has no more respect toward that natural nation and people than any other. God has no more promise to keep to Abraham as pertaining to his flesh and natural seed. He did that once and for all with Jesus to confirm and fulfill the prophecies of the last days. With the Jews first and now for all.

Natural Jews and Israel after the flesh are no more the nation and seed of Abraham's faith and promise. Christians are. Christians now are God's commonwealth of Israel, His holy nation, His peculiar people, His priesthood, His seed of promise and faith of Abraham.

He no more specially deals with any naturally-born people and nation on earth, including the Israelites and Jews in Palestine today. God no more is a respecter of person by natural birth and blood. (James 2) The only individuals and persons that God has any respect toward are them that believe His Son Jesus. Period. End of story.

The natural Jews have gone their ways, and the Lord God is going on without them in His way. They are permanently divorced as a special people to God, since the time they had their 'Husband' Jesus crucified. They helped kill the Promiser to Abraham, the promise is over. ALL naturally-born people on earth since the death of Jesus on the cross are separated from God and His promise to Abraham, that He would bless His seed and multiply them as the stars in heaven. That seed is now permanently the seed of Abraham's faith in the Lord Jesus. Whether Jewish or Greekish.

The final time of the last days in Revelation, before the Lord's return in power and glory, will be for the last time to command all people on earth, all inhabitors thereof to repent. (Rev 14). It matters nothing to God at this time and at that time whether they be Jewish or British or Russian or Chinese...All such nations and people and tribes that remain in rebellion to the end of that time, will gather themselves together at Megiddo-Armageddon to purposely make war with the Lord and His people, who have been taken up in the First resurrection and ascended into the air to be with Him.

I have no more angst nor regard for Jewish people than for anyone else on earth, even as God today. (Other than the fact that they worship in a false religion called by God the 'Jews Religion'. Like the false Jehovahite religion.)

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

To Non-Trinitarians,

While you argue about Jesus not being God ... those who speak against the Holy Spirit, denying that He is a person even, will not be forgiven in this age and the next.
He is God. He is a person who dwells in the believer, that is those who are baptized by Him.
He teaches, guides, councels, leads, gives truth, hears, speaks, is all powerful (omnipotence), searches all truth which means He is all knowing (omniscient), is omnipresent since billions are comforted by Him and He dwells in them, He bears witness to Christ and glorifies Him, is wise, gives gifts, baptized us, makes promises, loves us, fellowships with us, sanctified us, justifies us, convicts us of sin and edifies us.