Proof that Jesus is God

[NayborBear]

God the Father in God the Son, and God the Son in God the Father, and all believers made one in them both: God the Father and God the Son.

Ok. Fair enough! Were you created then?

 

[keithr]

Don't be silly, they knew they weren't God and gave glory to God.

Precisely! That's the point I was making. The miracles were performed by God, not by men, because men don't have the knowledge or ability to perform those miracles. So the point I was making was that Devin Wintch was incorrect when he said "by definition he performed miracles of nature which makes him a God". Jesus was a man, just like the Apostles and Old Testament prophets, so the miracles that God performed did not prove that Jesus was God, but they did confirm that Jesus was who he said he was - God's son.

John 5:19-20) Jesus therefore answered them, “Most certainly, I tell you, the Son can do nothing of himself, but what he sees the Father doing. For whatever things he does, these the Son also does likewise. For the Father has affection for the Son, and shows him all things that he himself does. He will show him greater works than these, that you may marvel."

Don't be like the Jews, who didn't understand who Jesus was and tried to kill him! John 10 (WEB):

31) Therefore Jews took up stones again to stone him.
32) Jesus answered them, “I have shown you many good works from my Father. For which of those works do you stone me?”
33) The Jews answered him, “We don’t stone you for a good work, but for blasphemy: because you, being a man, make yourself God.”
34) Jesus answered them, “Isn’t it written in your law, ‘I said, you are gods?’
35) If he called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture can’t be broken),
36) do you say of him whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, ‘You blaspheme,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of God?’
37) If I don’t do the works of my Father, don’t believe me.
38) But if I do them, though you don’t believe me, believe the works; that you may know and believe that the Father is in me, and I in the Father.”
39) They sought again to seize him, and he went out of their hand.

 

[keithr]

The true God was God in heaven from everlasting and then became the true God begotten of God upon the earth: Jesus.

Don't be silly! God cannot beget himself and give birth to Himself! This is the type of confused nonsense that Trinitarins have to come up with in order to try and make sense of the nonsensical Trinity doctrine! Believe the straightforward Scriptures - God begat a son, who was present with God before any other living being and the physical universe were created, and later God translated His son into a human body in a virgins womb, so that His Son "became flesh, and lived among us" (John 1:14), and he was then given the name of Yeshua (Jesus).

 

[Wrangler]

Jesus was a man, just like the Apostles and Old Testament prophets, so the miracles that God performed did not prove that Jesus was God, but they did confirm that Jesus was who he said he was - God's son.

Good point! The force behind trinitarianism is the man-is-god thesis. I found the easiest way to destroy trinitarianism is to expose the non-existence of the '3rd' person. Certainly Jesus and the Apostles were not trinitarians as Jesus never prayed to the Holy Spirit and the Apostles stubbornly only acknowledged 2 beings in the prologue of the epistles.

That Jesus specifically said he was going to his God in John 20:17 cannot be acknowledged by advocates of the man-is-god thesis. There is only one God and that is Jesus' God! The evidence is overwhelming.

And he will call out to me, ‘You are my Father, my God, and the Rock of my salvation.’
Psalm 89:26

“Don’t cling to me,” Jesus said, “for I haven’t yet ascended to the Father. But go find my brothers and tell them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’”
John 20:17

For us, there is one God, the Father
1 Corinthians 8:6

May God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ give you grace and peace.
2 Corinthians 1:2

I was not appointed by any group of people or any human authority, but by Jesus Christ himself and by God the Father, who raised Jesus from the dead.
Galatians 1:1

May God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ give you grace and peace.
Ephesians 1:2

May God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ give you grace and peace.
Philippians 1:2

May God our Father give you grace and peace.
Colossians 1:2

I was not appointed by any group of people or any human authority, but by Jesus Christ himself and by God the Father, who raised Jesus from the dead.
Galatians 1:1

We are writing to the church in Thessalonica, to you who belong to God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
1 & 2 Thessalonians 1:1

May God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord give you grace, mercy, and peace.
1 & 2 Timothy 1:2

May God the Father and Christ Jesus our Savior give you grace and peace.
Titus 1:4

May God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ give you grace and peace.
Philemon 1:3

For God never said to any angel what he said to Jesus: “You are my Son. Today I have become your Father.”
God also said, “I will be his Father, and he will be my Son.
Hebrews 1:5

Pure and genuine religion in the sight of God the Father means caring
James 1:27

God the Father knew you and chose you long ago, and his Spirit has made you holy.
1 Peter 1:2

when he received honor and glory from God the Father.
2 Peter 1:17

We proclaim ... our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ.
1 John 1:3 (NOTE: Again no reference to the HS)

Grace, mercy, and peace, which come from God the Father
2 John 1:3

He has made us a Kingdom of priests for God his Father.
Revelation 1:6

 

[Wrangler]

Don't be silly! God cannot beget himself and give birth to Himself! This is the type of confused nonsense that Trinitarins have to come up with in order to try and make sense of the nonsensical Trinity doctrine!

Trinitarianism is self-contradictory, defying logic, definition and language usage. No one beget's themselves. Nonsense indeed!

What I find so pernicious is they act as though this self-contradictory doctrine is the heart of Scripture, as if there is a verse that says The nature of God is a trinity - consisting of the Father, Son & Holy Spirit - and if you do not believe this, you cannot be saved. Yet, the reality is, there is nothing like this.

I watched a video where a pastor explained how the trinity does NOT produce the fruit of the Spirit. Profound.

Believe the straightforward Scriptures - God begat a son, who was present with God before any other living being and the physical universe were created, and later God translated His son into a human body in a virgins womb, so that His Son "became flesh, and lived among us (John 1:14), and he was then given the name of Yeshua (Jesus).

The idea that one God has a hierarchy with himself is absurd. 1 Corinthians 11:3.

 

[Gary Urban]

John 1 The Word was God. ... The Word became flesh and dwelt among us.
Jesus is God!

I didn't say who, but He certainly will burn BILLIONS of humans in the everlasting fire "forever and ever".
Revelation 20:10 (NKJV)
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Does it matter Who will burn unbelievers in Hell?
Matthew 13:41-42 (NKJV)
41 The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, 42 and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Revelation 20:10 (NKJV)
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Another Kingdom Hall victim?

We walk by faith understanding our God by the unseen eternal not by sight after the temporal seen.

The Spirit of Christ dwelt in the Son of man,Jesus is the treasure spoken of. Remember its one work performed by two working as one God ..

No power is attbuted to the flesh. It was the unsen power of the father working in Jesus to both will and empower him to live a life without sin .Jesu said of his own flesh as that part of the demonstration of the two profited for nothing.

2 Corinthian4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

Job 9 says it directly while dismissing the idea of a Pope called a Daysman .(An infallible teaching umpire set between God not seen and mankind seen). One is our teaching master as Lord our Father in heaven

Job 9:32 -33 For he is not a man, as I am, that I should answer him, and we should come together in judgment. Neither is there any daysman betwixt us, that might lay his hand upon us both.

Another witness

Job 33:12Behold, in this thou art not just: I will answer thee, that God is greater than man.

It would seem the idea that God is a man comes from a pagan foundation. (gods in likenes of men) . Therfore no faith coming as it is written. It would point to those who seek after the things seen as signs that cause wonderment and not prophecy the one source of faith in the end of a matter.

In that way Jesus declared to Nicodemus who did seek after signs and wonders. In respect to the greatest miracle you must be born again. . saying "marvel not" .Again wondering and marveling is not believing.

In the end of the matter ( 1 Samuel 8) Mankind was falsly hoping that God is a man. The faithless Jews gathered themselves together (not called by God) in their jealousy of the surrounding pagan nation and they demanded that they also would set up a government a hierarchy of men lording it over the understanding or faith of the non-venerable.

The Holy Spirit said to Samuel it’s not you seen that they reject a king reigning over them but myself as unseen God . The abomination of desolation Kings in Israel. . the temporal things seen in the place of the eternal things of God’s glory not seen. When the time of reformation came the order was restored to the faith principle .We are not to serve a hierarchy of men rather than our unseen God who is not a man

1 Samauel 8:7 And the Lord said unto Samuel, Hearken unto the voice of the people in all that they say unto thee: for they have not rejected thee, but they have rejected me, that I should not reign over them.


2 Corinthians 5:7 For we walk by faith, not by sight:

 

[Gary Urban]

A person or family, or even a small tribe of people residing in a geographical area having the reputation of "a land where the kenites dwell", does not mean that they (person, family, or small tribe) are "sons of cain."

If they have flesh and blood they are sons of Cain the corruptible seed or called daugthers of men in Genisis 6 .

A person must be born again by the water of the incoruptible word as sons of God.

1 Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

 

[NayborBear]

Don't be silly! God cannot beget himself and give birth to Himself! This is the type of confused nonsense that Trinitarins have to come up with in order to try and make sense of the nonsensical Trinity doctrine! Believe the straightforward Scriptures - God begat a son, who was present with God before any other living being and the physical universe were created, and later God translated His son into a human body in a virgins womb, so that His Son "became flesh, and lived among us (John 1:14), and he was then given the name of Yeshua (Jesus).

If I may expound on your comment?
God "conceived" Mary with the pure DNA! The same DNA as was Adam in the beginning, as well as Eve!

This DNA was not, nor had been corrupted, as had been Eve's, and then Adam's by the serpent, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

 

[Gary Urban]

Trinitarianism is self-contradictory, defying logic, definition and language usage. No one beget's themselves. Nonsense indeed!

What I find so pernicious is they act as though this self-contradictory doctrine is the heart of Scripture, as if there is a verse that says The nature of God is a trinity - consisting of the Father, Son & Holy Spirit - and if you do not believe this, you cannot be saved. Yet, the reality is, there is nothing like this.

I watched a video where a pastor explained how the trinity does NOT produce the fruit of the Spirit. Profound.



The idea that one God has a hierarchy with himself is absurd. 1 Corinthians 11:3.

yes. . It’s not a hierarchy of oneself but of two working as one .

As I John 2 says: whoever denies the Son also denies the Father, but whoever acknowledges the Son has the Father also.

It takes two to establish a government of peace .The loving father in the greater place of power and the powerless Son who submits to that love . . a mutual work of submission in perfect harmony to one another .

 

[NayborBear]

If they have flesh and blood they are sons of Cain the corruptible seed or called daugthers of men in Genisis 6 .

A person must be born again by the water of the incoruptible word as sons of God.

1 Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

I have to agree with ya man! We are everyone of us "sons of cain!"
With the exceptions being Adam, Enoch, Moses, Elijah, and Christ! Right?
With Paul putting an exclamation point on it!
1 Corinthians 10:22
Do we provoke the Lord to jealousy? are we stronger than he?

The answer to Paul's questions?
HAS to be Yes! Right?

Romans 8:23
And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Besides all that. Why would Jesus draw attention to himself if He were not the source of Life, the Way, the Truth, the Bread, the Resurrection, the Doorway, the Light of men, etc.? If he wasn't God, and merely an angel, he would point to His Father to receive all the credit, as angels do.
You also must ask logically, how could Jesus take on the sins of the world for all of humanity and wash them away unless a he was God. You would have to be omniscient, omnipresent and omnipotent.
He raised himself from the dead.
After that he was glorified and received all authority in heaven and on earth. Now to possess that power, you would ha r to be the ALL MIGHTY GOD. You would have to know everything and everyone and be in control of everything and everyone - sure sounds like God to me. Angels have great power, to kill 185,000 people, to war against Satan, but they can't create anything. Jesus is the Creator (Col. 1:16-17) That us what "in Him ALL things consist" means. Another translation is "held together". So all matter from the smallest atom to the outer universe is in Him. He holds it together. The universe consists by His power. God became flesh and dwelt among us.
We are in Him.
Our Father calls him God. The Father says He is above all angels. (Hebrews 1).
All this denial is a dishonor to Christ, degrading Him to something lower than He is. This also strips Him if the worship that is due Him, for we are not supposed to bow to or worship angels. But every knee will now to Jesus. So what can to the nay-sayers when Jesus returns? You'll have to cut your legs off above the knee cap.

 

[keithr]

"Another way we know Jesus is not God is that Jesus died"

And there you have it folks, straight from the whited horse's mouth (Rev 6): Jesus proved He was not God by dying. On the cross. He proved the unbelieving Jews were right, that He blasphemed when He tried to make Himself God (John 10), by declaring Himself to be the Christ, the 'Son of the blessed'. (Mark 14)

Hebrews 2:9 (WEB):

But we see him who has been made a little lower than the angels, Jesus, because of the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, that by the grace of God he should taste of death for everyone.​

Jesus was "made a little lower than the angels", i.e. he was made (translated/converted nature) human, so that he could die as a man. God could not die, because God is immortal (1 Timothy 6:16 - "who alone has immortality, dwelling in unapproachable light; whom no man has seen, nor can see"), and being immortal means that you cannot possibly die; and also God does not change (Mal 3:6 - “For I, Yahweh, don’t change").

Hebrews 7:
22) By so much, Jesus has become the collateral of a better covenant.
23) Many, indeed, have been made priests, because they are hindered from continuing by death.
24) But he, because he lives forever, has his priesthood unchangeable.
25) Therefore he is also able to save to the uttermost those who draw near to God through him, seeing that he lives forever to make intercession for them.
26) For such a high priest was fitting for us: holy, guiltless, undefiled, separated from sinners, and made higher than the heavens;
27) who doesn’t need, like those high priests, to offer up sacrifices daily, first for his own sins, and then for the sins of the people. For he did this once for all, when he offered up himself.
28) For the law appoints men as high priests who have weakness, but the word of the oath [of God] which came after the law appoints a Son forever who has been perfected.

The Old Testament sacrifices which God told the Israelites to perform were types pointing forward to the eventual sacrifice that Jesus would make of his own life. Likewise the sacrifice by Abraham of his only son Isaac was a type of God sacrificing His only begotten son, Jesus. Jesus, as High Priest, offered up himself; he offered up himself to God (therefore he can't be God).

Heb 9:22 (ESV) Indeed, under the law almost everything is purified with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins.

2 Corinthians 5:15) He died for all, that those who live should no longer live to themselves, but to him who for their sakes died and rose again.

"For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption." (Acts 2)

Indeed, God didn't leave Jesus dead. God resurrected Jesus to life again, 3 days later, and made Jesus "higher than the heavens" (Heb 7:26, as above).

Christ was the Holy One of Israel coming down out of heaven, and was named Jesus when born as a man, to pay the price for sins, that only God could pay and forgive.

You're mistaken to believe that only God could pay the redemption price - a life for a life. God had his Son, Jesus, pay the price, and it was God's pleasure that His son should be preeminent (superior to or above all others) in all things:

Colossians 1:18-19 (KJV):

And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;​

 

[Wrangler]

Why would Jesus draw attention to himself if He were not the source of Life, the Way, the Truth, the Bread, the Resurrection, the Doorway, the Light of men, etc.?

It is the will of the Father - who alone is God - to save people through the sin he adopted, to prove his plan of redemption and resurrection.

If he wasn't God, and merely an angel, he would point to His Father to receive all the credit, as angels do.

Jesus is a man, as Scripture repeatedly & explicitly says, not an angel and not God.

You also must ask logically, how could Jesus take on the sins of the world for all of humanity and wash them away unless a he was God.

False Alternative. It’s so funny to hear an illogical trinitarian invoke logic AS IF logic were his friend. Was the blood put on the door at Passover God? Of course not!

 

[Gary Urban]

If I may expound on your comment?
God "conceived" Mary with the pure DNA! The same DNA as was Adam in the beginning, as well as Eve!

This DNA was not, nor had been corrupted, as had been Eve's, and then Adam's by the serpent, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

So then this entity you call Mary did not age as in dying. . the wage of sin. . Where is she? Can she be dug up like Pope Formousus ?

The Cadaver Synod is the name commonly given to the ecclesiastical trial of Pope Formosus, who had been dead for about 7 months, in the Basilica of St. John ..

Genesis 3: 4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

 

[Gary Urban]

If I may expound on your comment?
God "conceived" Mary with the pure DNA! The same DNA as was Adam in the beginning, as well as Eve!

This DNA was not, nor had been corrupted, as had been Eve's, and then Adam's by the serpent, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

Yes the contrast is "daughters of men" mankind earthly contrasted with sons of God as those born again from above .The warning no to be unevenly yoked with daughters of men The Holy Spirit protecting the integrity of spiritual seed Christup until the birth of the Son of man, by Jesus.

All DNA is corrupted the moment the glory of God departed

Genesis 6:12 And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth

 

[MatthewG]

All I know about :
Proof that Jesus is God

Jesus Christ was the Image of the invisible God. Jesus Christ had said if you (disciples or others around Jesus Christ as a living breathing human being ) If you have seen me. You have seen the Father. How can I show you the Father, if you have seen the Father through Me (The Son). The Father resided with-in the Son Jesus Christ, by the spirit of God (Holy Spirit) - which came down like a dove, when John had baptized Jesus.

Jesus Christ was the Word of God. (John 1:1;14)
Though the Word had to first become flesh to be named -> born of the Virgin Mary by the spirit.

When God created the world. God spoke.

God who is (The Consuming Fire/Spirit/Love) - Spoke - The Word - Created.

See that? God spoke -> Like when you speak your words come out. (Though our words do not create anything but poison (somewhere in the book of James).

God's Word - created, when God (spoke).

God's spirit came and dwelled when - the Word became flesh named Jesus Christ, and had been baptized by John the Baptist.

Jesus Christ had a second name : Emmanuel - Which means God with us, God among us. God dwelling among human beings by the (Gods) spirit living through the Son of God - Christ Yeshua ~ Just as Christ Jesus lives in us today. (Galatians 2:20).

All else that is know is that Jesus Christ is the Lord. Also Jesus Christ is the Lord God Almighty.

All of this is just in generalization of basic knowledge of scripture ~ though do encourage any of you to test all things, and hold on to what is good.

 

[keithr]

If he wasn't God, and merely an angel, he would point to His Father to receive all the credit, as angels do.

He did!

He raised himself from the dead.

No he didn't! You cannot raise yourself from death, by definition of what death is!

Act 2:32) This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.

After that he was glorified and received all authority in heaven and on earth. Now to possess that power, you would ha r to be the ALL MIGHTY GOD.

Again wrong. How can you receive authority unless someone of higher authority gives it to you? Jesus said after his resurrection, "All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth" (Matthew 28:18) - given to him by the only one who could give it to him - God.

All this denial is a dishonor to Christ, degrading Him to something lower than He is. This also strips Him if the worship that is due Him, for we are not supposed to bow to or worship angels.

Trinitarian belief is a dishonour to Jesus because it denies who he really is. Jesus is not an angel - he created all the angels (including Satan). The Bible clearly states that Jesus is God's son, over and over again ("Son of God" appears 47 times, and Jesus says "my Father" 62 times).

 

[robert derrick]

It would be difficult to deny that Jesus is God : God was married to Israel under the Old Covenant, and Jesus is husband to the People of God today.

Thank you much for your point.
This is a good case for rejecting the notion that the natural Jews and human nation of Israel today is the sole object of God in Revelation.

Christians today are now the Israel of God. The natural branches are now cut off, because they killed their own Husband: the Lord God Jesus Christ. Jehovah in the flesh. There is no more natural people on earth that God has any special interest in nor regard for. We are all sinners before Him: Gentiles and nations of Gentiles separate from God, which includes every nation on the planet: Russian, American, British, Israeli, Arab, Chinese, etc... God only looks to individuals now to repent and believe His Son and be grafted into His holy Tree and Vine. (John 15)

Today only in Christ Jesus are any 'married' to the Lord, as a bride adorned in jewels, according to the prophesies of the last days (Isaiah 61). We are in those last days, since the promised Messiah came as the Son of God and spoke to us Personally (Heb 1). The last days prophecies have been fulfilled in the coming of Jesus Christ, Who confirmed His Covenant first to the Jews and now to everyone (Rom 15).

Any natural branch can be grafted in, but only as Christians (Rom 11). There is no more naturally born nation of Israel with God anymore. The only 'nation' that God has any personal dealings with is His holy nation, peculiar people, commonwealth of Israel, who walk after the Spirit, and not after the flesh. (Exodus 19) (1 Peter 2) There is no Jew and Gentile in Christ, nor is there any Jew and Gentile before God anymore. There is only the Christian 'holy nation' and Gentile nations, of which the current Israeli nation is just one among many.

The very fact that Scripture now makes difference between the New Israel of God who walk after the Spirit and the old Israel after the flesh (1 Cor 10), as well as difference between the Jews' religion and Jesus Christ's pure religion (Gal 1)(James), proves that the naturally-born Jews today are just another people among lost people, and their religion is just another false religion among false religions, whether Jewish, Muslim, Buddhist, Jehovahite, etc...

The Jews finally got what they always wanted: to be rid of the Lord God and to be a nation unto themselves like any other nation on earth. As in the days of Saul (1 Sam 8), and so they had their 'Husband' the Lord and God Jesus killed, the Son and heir of the vineyard (Matthew 21), and made themselves free to 'marry' another. (Rom 7)

In Rev 11, it is not the 'Gentiles' that tread the outer court, but the 'Nations', which includes the national Jewish nation of Israel. The 'temple of God' spoken of is not a building made with hands of men, but is God's temple in heaven, and the outer court is earth, which is His footstool. Heaven is His throne, which is in His temple, and Christians believers and worshippers of Jesus as Lord sit in that heavenly place (Eph 1, 2, & 3)). And that true temple of God will be opened in heaven for all to see after the First Resurrection during the Lord's millennial reign on earth (Rev 11:19)

 

[robert derrick]

"Jesus has become the collateral of a better covenant." -Jehovah cult worshipper. Jehovahite.

So, Jesus's death on the cross was just collateral damage. The smaller Lord Jesus, sacrificed for the BIGGER LORD Jehovah. Proving Jesus was not God by dying.

Abraham prophesied that the Lord would provide Himself a lamb of sacrifice(Gen 22), but not the BIGGER LORD Himself, rather the BIGGER LORD would provide a littler Lord Jesus to be a littler lamb of sacrifice, instead of Himself.

These lunatics just keep digging a BIGGER hole to fall into and bury themselves in. (Psalms 7) (Luke 6)

You can't make this stuff up folks. When the enemies of the Lord God and Savior Jesus Christ keep exposing themselves, you just let them keep on talking.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

It is the will of the Father - who alone is God - to save people through the sin he adopted, to prove his plan of redemption and resurrection.



Jesus is a man, as Scripture repeatedly & explicitly says, not an angel and not God.



False Alternative. It’s so funny to hear an illogical trinitarian invoke logic AS IF logic were his friend. Was the blood put on the door at Passover God? Of course not!

Get ready, He is coming. If you are not ready to bow a knee and worship our Lord and Savior, then I guess you will have to wait and see what happens.