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Proof that Jesus is God
- Thread starter robert derrick
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Similar logic - of course Jesus isn't God because he said "my Father" and "my God", and "my Father is greater than I", and "the Father hath sent me", etc..
This has been covered before (e.g. four replies ago - #757). That is a badly translated verse which gives the opposite meaning to what it should. Try another translation, e.g.:
(ESV) who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped,
If Jesus was God, then why was he even thinking about being equal with God?
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John 20:17 - Jesus said to her, “Don’t hold me, for I haven’t yet ascended to my Father; but go to my brothers, and tell them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’”
Yep, still there! And here's me thinking that "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness" (2 Timothy 3:16), and therefore should all be in harmony with itself. I wonder if this means that we've misinterpreted some verses?
Actually it's the opposite meaning - you obviously didn't read it carefully enough.
Still doesn't say Jesus isn't God.John 20:17 - Jesus said to her, “Don’t hold me, for I haven’t yet ascended to my Father; but go to my brothers, and tell them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’”
Yep, still there! And here's me thinking that "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness" (2 Timothy 3:16), and therefore should all be in harmony with itself. I wonder if this means that we've misinterpreted some verses?
Actually it's the opposite meaning - you obviously didn't read it carefully enough.
John 5:21 (NKJV)
21 For as the Father raises the dead and gives life to them, even so the Son gives life to whom He will.
Jesus is God!
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Christ will return as the ultimate warrior. Deception is a tool of war and make no mistake, we are engaged in Spiritual warfare. So, stop pretending he is something he’s not. Good titles are Son of God, the Liberating King, Savior of the World.
He’s just not other things, like the eternally unchanging God almighty. You should be sophisticated enough to know his parables were intended to deceive unbelievers.
There is nothing anti-Christ about identifying properly the nature of my beloved Lord and Savior.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
You are attempting to shift the burden of proof. If you claim Jesus is God you have not proved it.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Great question! I look forward to an intelligent response from our trinitarian friends. But I won’t hold my breath.
John 5:18 (NKJV)
18 Therefore the Jews sought all the more to kill Him, because He not only broke the Sabbath, but also said that God was His Father, making Himself equal with God.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Right, still not even referring to or mentioning Jesus.
And I noticed you just continue to ignore John 20:17 where Jesus talked about going to his God. For any objective person, this is proof Jesus is not God.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
No response to the verse in question. Gotcha!
Just sweep verses aside that don’t align with your doctrine, pretending only the other side as to defend its doctrine. Your doctrine cannot be scrutinized because it cannot hold up to scrutiny as posts like this show.
Then who? You don't have a clue.
DOES NOT PROVE THAT JESUS IS NOT GOD!
John 3:13 (NKJV)
13 No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven.
Isaiah 40:3 (NKJV)
3 The voice of one crying in the wilderness: "Prepare the way of the LORD; Make straight in the desert A highway for our God.
Matthew 3:3 (NKJV)
3 For this is he who was spoken of by the prophet Isaiah, saying: "The voice of one crying in the wilderness: 'Prepare the way of the LORD; Make His paths straight.' "
Jesus is the Lord!
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Yes, John 20:17 proves Jesus is not God. That is the only explanation for him saying he is going to his God.
People do not use language to say they are going to themselves.
theQuestioneer
Active Member
"robert derrick:
Lets question these by reading the context, shall we?
1. Jesus is the true God (I John 5:20) - To believe otherwise is idolatry
1 John 5:20- And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, to know him who is true; and we are in him who is true, in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life.
5- Who is it that overcomes the world but he who believes that Jesus is the son of God? Do you see "Jesus is God", or "1/3 God", or "God-the-Son"?
9- If we receive the testimony of men, the testimony of God is greater; for this is the testimony of God that he has borne witness to his son. Do you see "God has born witness to Himself? Themselves?
11- And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12 - He who has the son has life; he who has not the son of God has not life. This explains the reference to "eternal life", in the scripture in question.
13- I write this to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life. Ditto
20- And we know that the son of God has come and has given us understanding, to know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and Eternal Life. All Christians are "in" Him who is true, as well as his son Jesus Christ.
Lets question these by reading the context, shall we?
1. Jesus is the true God (I John 5:20) - To believe otherwise is idolatry
1 John 5:20- And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, to know him who is true; and we are in him who is true, in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life.
5- Who is it that overcomes the world but he who believes that Jesus is the son of God? Do you see "Jesus is God", or "1/3 God", or "God-the-Son"?
9- If we receive the testimony of men, the testimony of God is greater; for this is the testimony of God that he has borne witness to his son. Do you see "God has born witness to Himself? Themselves?
11- And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12 - He who has the son has life; he who has not the son of God has not life. This explains the reference to "eternal life", in the scripture in question.
13- I write this to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life. Ditto
20- And we know that the son of God has come and has given us understanding, to know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and Eternal Life. All Christians are "in" Him who is true, as well as his son Jesus Christ.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
No. The true God is the Father in 1 John 5:20. Compare to John John 17:3.
The idolatry is what you are advancing; that there is any God besides Jesus’ God. See Ephesians 1:2
Then Who did God become in the flesh? Answer: Jesus! Jesus is God.
John 1 The Word was God and became flesh.
Brakelite
Well-Known Member
I said in an earlier post in this thread (can't be bothered to search through 700 odd posts to find it) that the greatest evidence we have in scripture that Jesus is God, is that He is the Son of His Father.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
I've answered this a dozen times. God does not change. God does not 'become' anything. He already is existing, the great I AM. His word became flesh just as my word now becomes written. It is not I who is written. Words are not beings.
So, you know you are being deliberately obtuse with this figurative prologue, pretending it is any different than the other Gospels introducing the reader to the ministry of Jesus - starting at the beginning of his ministry. This is not unlike a Tale of Two Cities. Or if one were to talk about the beginning of Trump's Presidency, they may talk about the escalator ride. That does not make Trump an escalator.
Again, let's review yesterday's devotional reading, also from the Gospel of John. We learn explicitly that Jesus is a man who heard from God, in his unitarian nature, and that the Father is God, in his unitarian nature. Can you acknowledge this verse and its significance in destroying any claim that Jesus is God or will you just ignore such verses and pretend only verses you like exist?
40 As it is, you are out to kill me, a man who has told you the truth which I heard from God. Avraham did nothing like that! 41 You are doing the things your father does.” “We’re not illegitimate children!” they said to him. “We have only one Father — God!”
John 8:40-41 (CJB)
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