Proof that Jesus is God

[Wrangler]

That is what I said, "No, it proves the Son is not the Father,"

So, you just ignored everything else I wrote to assert this come back? Guess what? Scripture states over and over and over again
GOD = FATHER, period.

'God, the Father' is stated numerous times. Never in Scripture is 'God, the Son' stated. The obvious reason is because the son is not God.

'For us, there is one God, the Father'
1 Corinthians 8:6

 

[Wrangler]

Deals with unchanging in character

You are just reading into unitarian text in a desperate attempt to support your unproven doctrine. Guess what? Becoming man and dying is a changing character. Now, I'm sure you'll want to alter the meaning of words you added to Scripture.


And so you cancel the word of God in order to hand down your own tradition.
Mark 7:13

 

[Wrangler]

Please explain how I am 'reading into' the word "us/we" as a plurality of persons, or 'reading into' the word "me" as a singularity of person?

1. Because you are using dicta to supersede the 1C. You are reading into GE 1:26 AS IF it is a justification to disregard or reinterpret 1C.

2. Another way you are reading into GE 1:26 is to pretend it supersedes the 1,000's of times God is referred to using singular pronouns. On the scales of justice, 1 bit of evidence cannot outweigh 10,000 bits of evidence to the contrary.

3. Another way you are reading into GE 1:26 is to pretend "our" only refers to Jesus or the Holy Spirit and not millions of heavenly beings.

 

[Wrangler]

You would be well advised to read up on blasphemy.
.

Oh my. An appeal to threat. Guess what? I am more than a trinitarian blasphemer, I am a trinitarian rejector.

The Bible specifically says Jesus is a man - even in fulfilling his sacrificial role.


But there is a great difference between Adam’s sin and God’s gracious gift. For the sin of this one man, Adam, brought death to many. But even greater is God’s wonderful grace and his gift of forgiveness to many through this other man, Jesus Christ.
Romans 5:15 (NLT)

 

[Wrangler]

JW, Arians, Muslims, etc all claim that Jesus is a created being, rather than Deity. Yet, they do not realize the very serious problem they create for themselves in so believing and teaching. They deny their own salvation in so doing, consider

Nonsense! I believe Jesus is who he said he was, the Messiah, the Son of God. See Mark 14:60-61.

You want to take the John 8:24 verse and pretend it says you have to believe he is God, when that is not what he said. Reading trinitarian doctrine onto unitarian text is so desperate a ploy, far from the proof standard asserted.

 

[kcnalp]

Php 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

Amen! Jesus is God!!!

 

[kcnalp]

Nonsense! I believe Jesus is who he said he was, the Messiah, the Son of God. See Mark 14:60-61.

You want to take the John 8:24 verse and pretend it says you have to believe he is God, when that is not what he said. Reading trinitarian doctrine onto unitarian text is so desperate a ploy, far from the proof standard asserted.

John 1 The Word was God and became flesh! You're wrong again!

 

[NayborBear]

Jesus claimed to be the "I am" (Jesus JEHOVAH (LORD) the eternal Person/Being of the Son, not the Person/Being of the Father (JEHOVAH the Ancient of Days)) , and to those who do not believe this shall remain and die in their sins.

Ya see? Jesus had what some people would call, a supernatural/Holy/Priestly/Prophetic ability of being able to separate SUCCESSFULLY "flesh from Spirit" at any given moment! Or when the Father put the words in Jesus' mouth to speak!

 

[kcnalp]

Ya see? Jesus had what some people would call, a supernatural/Holy/Priestly/Prophetic ability of being able to separate SUCCESSFULLY "flesh from Spirit" at any given moment! Or when the Father put the words in Jesus' mouth to speak!

It's your word against Thomas and the NWT.

NWT John 20:28 Thomas said to him: “My Lord and my God!"

 

[keithr]

keithr said:
Yes, Jesus will be referred to as a "mighty god",​

Says Kingdom Hall? lol

You'll have to ask the Jehovah's Witnesses if they say that; I can't confirm it because I am not a member of the Jehovah's Witnesses. But, "Jesus came to them and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to me in heaven and on earth”", (Matthew 28:18), in which case I'm sure many people will refer to Jesus as a mighty god. But Jesus does not have authority over his father and his God, Yahweh, as I have show before from 1 Corinthians 15 (WEB):

24) Then the end comes, when he [Jesus] will deliver up the Kingdom to God, even the Father; when he will have abolished all rule and all authority and power.
25) For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet.
26) The last enemy that will be abolished is death.
27) For, “He put all things in subjection under his feet.” But when he says, “All things are put in subjection”, it is evident that he is excepted who subjected all things to him.

[Quoting from Psalm 8:6.]​

28) When all things have been subjected to him, then the Son will also himself be subjected to him [God] who subjected all things to him, that God may be all in all.

Paul is very clearly saying here that God, the Father, has made all things to be subjected to Jesus, but that it it obvious that God Himself is not subjected to Jesus. On the contrary, Paul says that Jesus will be subjected to God. As usual though, you just can't seem to understand, or bring yourself to believe the plain teaching of the Scriptues, and you continue to stubbornly only take notice of a few controversial verses with debatably incorrect translation into English, in an attempt to support the false teaching og the Trinity. That shows a lack of common sense!

 

[kcnalp]

You'll have to ask the Jehovah's Witnesses if they say that; I can't confirm it because I am not a member of the Jehovah's Witnesses. But, "Jesus came to them and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to me in heaven and on earth”", (Matthew 28:18), in which case I'm sure many people will refer to Jesus as a mighty god. But Jesus does not have authority over his father and his God, Yahweh, as I have show before from 1 Corinthians 15 (WEB):

24) Then the end comes, when he [Jesus] will deliver up the Kingdom to God, even the Father; when he will have abolished all rule and all authority and power.
25) For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet.
26) The last enemy that will be abolished is death.
27) For, “He put all things in subjection under his feet.” But when he says, “All things are put in subjection”, it is evident that he is excepted who subjected all things to him.

[Quoting from Psalm 8:6.]​

28) When all things have been subjected to him, then the Son will also himself be subjected to him [God] who subjected all things to him, that God may be all in all.

Paul is very clearly saying here that God, the Father, has made all things to be subjected to Jesus, but that it it obvious that God Himself is not subjected to Jesus. On the contrary, Paul says that Jesus will be subjected to God. As usual though, you just can't seem to understand, or bring yourself to believe the plain teaching of the Scriptues, and you continue to stubbornly only take notice of a few controversial verses with debatably incorrect translation into English, in an attempt to support the false teaching og the Trinity. That shows a lack of common sense!

NONE of that says Jesus isn't God! lol

Do you know Who the Son of God is?

"These things says the Son of God,"

Jeremiah 17:10 (NKJV)
10 I, the LORD, search the heart, I test the mind, Even to give every man according to his ways, According to the fruit of his doings.
Revelation 2:18-23 (NKJV)
18 'These things says the Son of God, … 23 I will kill her children with death, and all the churches shall know that I am He who searches the minds and hearts. And I will give to each one of you according to your works.

 

[keithr]

Also important was that the perfect man had to pay the penalty for the sins of mankind, this is something no other can do, neither can a sheep or lamb.

It was something that no descendant of Adam and Eve could do, because everyone had inherited their corrupted sinful nature. That is whay Jesus was born of a virgin, with God supplying the uncorrupted DNA. This is why God said in Genesis 3:15, "And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel". The seed of a woman doesn't make sense, because the seed comes from the man, not the woman. But God planted the seed in Mary, so that Jesus did not have a human father, and did not inherit the corrupt and sinful nature.

So do not mock the flesh,

I was not mocking anyone or anything!

 

[Wrangler]

From today’s devotional reading, proof text Jesus is not God. Jesus says he is a man who heard from God, in his unitarian nature. The Father is God, in his unitarian nature.


40 As it is, you are out to kill me, a man who has told you the truth which I heard from God. Avraham did nothing like that! 41 You are doing the things your father does.” “We’re not illegitimate children!” they said to him. “We have only one Father — God!” 42 Yeshua replied to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me
John 8:40-42 (CJB)

 

[keithr]

I can rightly say that the Son is not the Father. I can even say that Jesus is not the Ancient of Days. I cannot say that the Son of the Father, who has the eternal nature of Deity, does not share the eternal nature of Deity with His Father. Father and Son are of the same nature. This is part of what makes the relationship of Father and Son, even as I share the nature of my earthly father (in the nature of mankind; humanity).

1 John 3:2 (WEB): "Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is."

So that is saying that Christians will, after their resurrection, share the same spiritual nature that Jesus now has. Does that mean all Christians will become God too?! Having the same nature as somebody does not make you that person, nor a part of them. At one time Jesus was a man, but that does not make all other men part of Jesus, nor make all men the only begotten Son of God. The Bible clearly says that there is only one true God, our heavenly Father, and Jesus' Father, and his name is Yahweh/Yehovah. Ideas about a God being a Trinity or Duality, or whatever, are wrong:

Deuteronomy 6:4 (WEB): Hear, Israel: Yahweh is our God. Yahweh is one.

 

[keithr]

Now, of those who deny Jesus as Deity can find me one place in scripture (KJB) where Jesus lied.

I don't deny that Jesus has the divine nature (since his resurrection), but if you want an example of Jesus lying, how about:

John 11:11 (WEB): he said to them, “Our friend, Lazarus, has fallen asleep, but I am going so that I may awake him out of sleep.”

I'm sure kcnalp would say that was a lie, for Lazarus was dead and not asleep. Although people with more common sense would realise that he was speaking metaphorically after continuing to read:

12) The disciples therefore said, “Lord, if he has fallen asleep, he will recover.”
13) Now Jesus had spoken of his death, but they thought that he spoke of taking rest in sleep.
14) So Jesus said to them plainly then, “Lazarus is dead.​

 

[Wrangler]

A more obvious case of Jesus lying is saying ‘the temple’ will be rebuilt in 3 days.

500 times before this verse, ‘the temple’ was taken to mean King Solomon’s temple. Moreover, he KNEW his audience took his words that way.

Another obvious lie, avoiding the truth, is when the Jews demanded he tell them plainly if he was the Messiah. Instead of answering directly, as he did in Mark 14:61, he replies ambiguously with I am who I’ve told you all along.

Both examples remind me of teenagers who are lying by omission.

 

[keithr]

Joh_8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

Jesus claimed to be the "I am" (Jesus JEHOVAH (LORD) the eternal Person/Being of the Son, not the Person/Being of the Father (JEHOVAH the Ancient of Days)) , and to those who do not believe this shall remain and die in their sins.

No he didn't (I won't bother explaining it again!). Note Paul said:

1 Corinthians 15:10 (KJV): But by the grace of God I am what I am:

Do you think Paul was claiming to be God (Yehovah/Yahweh) too?

Jesus is never referred to as Jesus Jehovah in the Bible!

Heb_1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

Yes, Jesus, since his resurrection, is now the express image of God, having the same divine nature as God; and he by himself purged us of our sins by sacrificing his soul on our behalf, presenting his sacrifice to God after his resurrection, and he is now sat on the right hand of God (and is therefore not God!).

Jesus, the Son of the Father, Deity, took all the sins of the whole world upon Himself, and bare it "alone". Only Deity could ever do such a thing. Alone. It takes almighty power to do that. It takes someone not below, or beneath the Law.

The Bible tells us that Jesus, God's only begotten son, did successfully take on all the sins of mankind, and did it alone (Matthew 27:46 - Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, ... “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”), and he was under the Law (Matthew 5:17 - "Don’t think that I came to destroy the law or the prophets. I didn’t come to destroy, but to fulfill.").

All creation finds its origins in Christ Jesus (The Son, by command of the Father), which is why He could take the sins of all mankind upon Himself. No created being, no matter how exalted, could ever do what He did.

That's your assumption, not what the Scriptures say.

Php 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

Again - a bad translation. Most translations translate it with the opposite meaning, e.g. (WEB): "who, existing in the form of God, didn’t consider equality with God a thing to be grasped".

A created being cannot offer up their life as a ransom, for their life is not their own to offer, but is borrowed from The Eternal Life (Deity), and neither could they a single person offer up their life for more than their own life (single).

God's answer to the problem of the fall of man was to have His only begotten son become a substitue for Adam, and that is why God transformed Jesus from spirit being to human being for that very purpose.

However, the Son of the Father could, for all creation came from Him.

That's not the reason that he could give his life as a suitable redemption price. Only a perfect man could do that, so Jesus could not have done it unles God had first transformed into into a perfect, mortal, man.

 

[Cooper]

Oh my. An appeal to threat. Guess what? I am more than a trinitarian blasphemer, I am a trinitarian rejector.

The Bible specifically says Jesus is a man - even in fulfilling his sacrificial role.


But there is a great difference between Adam’s sin and God’s gracious gift. For the sin of this one man, Adam, brought death to many. But even greater is God’s wonderful grace and his gift of forgiveness to many through this other man, Jesus Christ.
Romans 5:15 (NLT)

A more obvious case of Jesus lying is saying ‘the temple’ will be rebuilt in 3 days.

500 times before this verse, ‘the temple’ was taken to mean King Solomon’s temple. Moreover, he KNEW his audience took his words that way.

Another obvious lie, avoiding the truth, is when the Jews demanded he tell them plainly if he was the Messiah. Instead of answering directly, as he did in Mark 14:61, he replies ambiguously with I am who I’ve told you all along.

Both examples remind me of teenagers who are lying by omission.

Honestly, I do not know why you are allowed to post Anti-Christ material.
.

 

[keithr]

NONE of that says Jesus isn't God! lol

If you expecting to read a verse that simply says "Jesus is not God", then you won't find it. It also doesn't say "Paul is not God", "Isaiah is not God", etc.. You have to use common sense and logic, or as God puts it, "“Come now, and let’s reason together,” says Yahweh" (Isaiah 1:18).

Do you know Who the Son of God is?

Yes, but you clearly don't!

Jeremiah 17:10 (NKJV)
10 I, the LORD, search the heart, I test the mind, Even to give every man according to his ways, According to the fruit of his doings.
Revelation 2:18-23 (NKJV)
18 'These things says the Son of God, … 23 I will kill her children with death, and all the churches shall know that I am He who searches the minds and hearts. And I will give to each one of you according to your works.

And in the same passage Jesus goes on to say, in verse 27, "as I also have received of my Father". Yahweh, God, is his father. Jesus, as verse 18 states, is the Son of God. The Son of God is not God, although he is a god, second only in power to his Father.

 

[kcnalp]

If you expecting to read a verse simply say "Jesus is not God", then you won't find it.

Of course, because you won't find it in the Bible. You will find that Jesus is indeed God of the Bible. He knows EVERYTHING!

"These things says the Son of God," In Isaiah 9:6. Jeremiah also said Jesus is God.

Jeremiah 17:10 (NKJV)
10 I, the LORD, search the heart, I test the mind, Even to give every man according to his ways, According to the fruit of his doings.
Revelation 2:18-23 (NKJV)
18 'These things says the Son of God, … 23 I will kill her children with death, and all the churches shall know that I am He who searches the minds and hearts. And I will give to each one of you according to your works.

It also doesn't say "Paul is not God", "Isaiah is not God", etc.. You have to use common sense and logic, or as God puts it, "“Come now, and let’s reason together,” says Yahweh" (Isaiah 1:18).

Of course Isaiah isn't God. He said Jesus is "Mighty God".

Isaiah 48
12 "Listen to Me, O Jacob, And Israel, My called: I am He, I am the First, I am also the Last. 13 Indeed My hand has laid the foundation of the earth, And My right hand has stretched out the heavens; When I call to them, They stand up together.16 "Come near to Me, hear this: I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; From the time that it was, I was there. And now the Lord GOD and His Spirit Have sent Me."

Yes, but you clearly don't!

Sure I do. I read the Bible. Only God is "equal with God". Unless you think Jesus was nuts. Or maybe you think Paul was nuts?

Philippians 2:5-6 (NKJV)
5 Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God,

And in the same passage Jesus goes on to say, in verse 27, "as I also have received of my Father". Yahweh, God, is his father. Jesus, as verse 18 states, is the Son of God. The Son of God is not God, although he is a god, second only in power to his Father.

So you think Jesus and Paul were blasphemers! Got you!