Prophetic Language of the Old Testament

[charlesj]

Learning from O.T. Prophetic Language



When God spoke of prophetic events that would come upon
peoples and nations sometimes He spoke using words and ideas of grandeur, of
fantastic proportions, of celestial significance. When He did this, it is not language that
signifies an absolutely literal, materialistic, or natural fulfillment, as can
be discovered by anyone who honestly studies these things. For example, almost the same identical
language was used by the prophets of old when they described the coming
judgments of God upon certain areas of people.
I have learned that in understanding many expressions in the N.T.
eschatology, it is absolutely necessary to go back to the O.T. to see how the
same expressions were used there. In
that way, one lets the Bible interpret itself.
In other words, the Holy Spirit speaks to you. An example of the Holy Spirit speaking to you
can be done by drawing an analogy of our congregation when they choose and
elected elders for our assembly many years ago.
The congregation chose men that fulfilled the words of Titus 1:5ff. Titus, by the Holy Spirit, tells us how to
choose elders.


When we were lead by the instructions of the Holy Spirit
through the writings of Titus, the Holy Spirit actually choose our elders, that
is, the congregation chose them, but it was by the Holy Spirit, therefore, the
Holy Spirit picked them.


If we would have picked a man that didn’t meet any (even one) of those requirements, then the Holy Spirit did not pick them, man
did. This is how the Holy Spirit speaks to us today. Got that?


This is the same with bible interpretation. We go back and see where the Holy Spirit
recorded prophetic phrases and we learn how He used them.



For an example of the way the writers of the O.T. used highly imaginative language concerning the universe to describe events that
happened, look especially at Psalms 18.

The heading of this Psalm describes the words from David concerning God’s deliverance of “him from
all his enemies and from the hand of Saul.” It says:


[sup]7[/sup]Then the earth shook and trembled; The foundations also of the mountains quaked And were shaken, because he was wroth.
[sup]8[/sup]There went up a smoke out of his nostrils, And fire out of his mouth devoured: Coals were kindled by it. [sup]9[/sup]He bowed the heavens
also, and came down; And thick darkness was under his feet. [sup]10[/sup]And he rode upon a cherub, and did fly; Yea, he soared upon the wings of the wind. [sup]11[/sup]He
made darkness his hiding-place, his pavilion round about him, Darkness of waters, thick clouds of the skies. [sup]12[/sup]At the brightness before him
his thick clouds passed, Hailstones and coals of fire. [sup]13[/sup]Jehovah also thundered in the heavens, And the Most High uttered his voice, Hailstones
and coals of fire.” (Ps 18:7-13, ASV)



In the midst of all these celestial and terrestrial scenes described by David, he said, “He…came down!” (18:9)


Students of the Bible should understand that this is the kind of language used by the writers when they are prescribing the wonderful
works of God, usually in reference to His judgments, and in reference to His deliverances and great blessings to His people.
We are NOT to take these verses literally in a naturalistic sense.


G.R. Beasley-Murray describes the “coming” of God to help David (in Psalms 18) thusly:

“The Lord of heaven and earth thus comes in all his glory,
shaking the world to its foundations, causing the mountains to heave and the
ocean floor to be exposed – all for the aid of one sick man! This is a clear expression of the association
in a Hebrew’s mind when he thought of the coming of God to aid his people: the
stepping forth of the Creator evokes the trembling of the whole creation.” (G.R. Beasley-Murray, Jesus and the Kingdom of God, page 6)


When the earth shook and trembled,” when “the foundations also of the hills moved and were shaken,” then it was that the LORD “CAME
DOWN.” So, says Ps 18:7,9. This is beautiful apocalyptic language.


Milton Terry said of this same passage:


“The simplest reader of this psalm observes that, in answer to the prayer of the one in distress, Jehovah reveals Himself in marvelous
power and glory. He disturbs for His sake all the elements of the earth and the heavens. He descends from tht lofty sky as if bending
down the visible clouds and making a pathway of massive darkness under His feet. He seems to ride upon a chariot,
borne along by cherubim’s, and moving swiftly as the winds… In the psalmist’s thought winds, fire, hail, clouds, waters, lightning’s, and earthquake are
conceived as immediately subservient to Jehovah, who interposes for the rescue of his devout servant.” (Terry, Biblical Apocalyptics, page 25)



In the case of the prophesied fall of Babylon to the Medes in 539 B.C. God used this celestial and universal language to describe the judgment that would come
upon her.


Verse 1 tells us this is Babylon.


[sup]“9[/sup]Behold, the day of Jehovah cometh, cruel, with wrath and fierce anger; to make the land a desolation, and to destroy the
sinners thereof out of it. [sup]10[/sup]For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light; the sun shall be darkened in
its going forth, and the moon shall not cause its light to shine. [sup]11[/sup]And I will punish the world for their
evil, and the wicked for their iniquity: and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible.” (Isaiah 13:9-11, ASV)


Notice the language used! “Stars of heaven… the sun darkened, the moon will not cause its light to
shine…etc. The stars of haven, sun and moon here is speaking of the government of Babylon falling to the Medes. (Go back now and look at Joseph’s dream of
the sun, moon and stars bowing down to him, Genesis 37:9ff. Who did these elements represent? Read it.
Who were the sun, moon and stars? The Holy Spirit will speak to you here and give you the answer. Put this in your memory bank for you will see
this throughout the Bible)


Again, notice the prophecy of Ezekiel against Egypt:



[sup]7[/sup]And when I shall extinguish thee, I will cover the heavens, and make the stars thereof dark; I will cover the sun with a
cloud, and the moon shall not give its light. [sup]8[/sup]All the bright lights of heaven will I make dark over thee, and set darkness upon thy land, saith the
Lord Jehovah. (Ezek 32:7,8 ASV)



In verse 3 (32:3) God says He will “spread His net upon Egypt using many peoples…”


In these prophecies and warnings you see God coming down form Heaven in the form of another nation such as the Medes

when they whipped Babylon or here in Ezekial when Egypt was punished by many peoples.


And further, note in Amos 8:9: And it shall come to pass in that day, saith the Lord Jehovah, that I will cause the sun to go down at noon, and I will darken
the earth in the clear day. (Amos 8:9, ASV)


Amos 8:9 has reference to the Northern kingdom.



Would you say this language was talking about something that was literally done in a materialistic way, or would you sat that the language is
symbolical and represented in celestial language something that would take place?

Have fun studying His Word and may He bless us as we study,

Your servant in Christ,

charlesj

 

[veteran]

It would nice if it were just that easy. Just because God gave words in a universal destruction sense for the fall of historical kingdoms like Babylon, Egypt, Persia, etc., does not mean those declarations were metaphorical only for those histories. Often they are words given to also point to the ending of this world at Christ's second coming.


Amos 8:9
9 And it shall come to pass in that day, saith the Lord GOD, that I will cause the sun to go down at noon, and I will darken the earth in the clear day:
(KJV)

God darkened the daytime with the plagues upon Egypt, and at the time of Christ's death upon the cross. It was literal.

Isa 13:10-13
10 For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.
11 And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible.
12 I will make a man more precious than fine gold; even a man than the golden wedge of Ophir.
13 Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of the LORD of hosts, and in the day of His fierce anger.
(KJV)

The ultimate day of His fierce anger will be on the day on His return, called 'the day of The LORD'. A destruction of this present world time will accompany that. These are all OT examples for that coming final day.

Amos 5:8
8 Seek Him That maketh the seven stars and Orion, and turneth the shadow of death into the morning, and maketh the day dark with night: that calleth for the waters of the sea, and poureth them out upon the face of the earth: The LORD is His name:
(KJV)

God poured out waters upon the earth as a destruction in times of old, which is what Jer.4:23-28 was about, and it was literal.

Micah 3:5-8
5 Thus saith the LORD concerning the prophets that make My people err, that bite with their teeth, and cry, Peace; and he that putteth not into their mouths, they even prepare war against him.
6 Therefore night shall be unto you, that ye shall not have a vision; and it shall be dark unto you, that ye shall not divine; and the sun shall go down over the prophets, and the day shall be dark over them.
7 Then shall the seers be ashamed, and the diviners confounded: yea, they shall all cover their lips; for there is no answer of God.
8 But truly I am full of power by the spirit of the LORD, and of judgment, and of might, to declare unto Jacob his transgression, and to Israel his sin.
(KJV)

There's an example of who that darkness is prepared for.

Matt 24:29-30
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
(KJV)

There will be a literal shaking of this earth on that day of Christ's return, to end this present world (see 2 Pet.3:10 also).

Rev 6:12-13
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
(KJV)

That 6th seal event will involve a major prophetic event to come upon this earth, an event that will mark the start of the great tribulation.

Isa 24:21-23
21 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the LORD shall punish the host of the high ones that are on high, and the kings of the earth upon the earth.
22 And they shall be gathered together, as prisoners are gathered in the pit, and shall be shut up in the prison, and after many days shall they be visited.
23 Then the moon shall be confounded, and the sun ashamed, when the LORD of hosts shall reign in mount Zion, and in Jerusalem, and before His ancients gloriously.
(KJV)

The sun being darkened and the moon not being confounded is about God's Light existing in Jerusalem on earth when He returns to reign.

Isa 60:19
19 The sun shall be no more thy light by day; neither for brightness shall the moon give light unto thee: but the LORD shall be unto thee an everlasting light, and thy God thy glory.
(KJV)

Joel 2:10-11
10 The earth shall quake before them; the heavens shall tremble: the sun and the moon shall be dark, and the stars shall withdraw their shining:
11 And the LORD shall utter His voice before His army: for His camp is very great: for he is strong that executeth His word: for the day of the LORD is great and very terrible; and who can abide it?
(KJV)

That's in reference to the end of this world, even though it was given in the Book of Joel.

Joel 2:30-32
30 And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke.
31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.
32 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call.
(KJV)

And even back in Joel, those descriptions are used to point to the end of this world with the day of The LORD. The day of The LORD is what starts Christ's future thousand years reign. It happens at the same time of His coming.

Joel 3:15-16
15 The sun and the moon shall be darkened, and the stars shall withdraw their shining.
16 The LORD also shall roar out of Zion, and utter His voice from Jerusalem; and the heavens and the earth shall shake: but the LORD will be the hope of His people, and the strength of the children of Israel.
(KJV)

Hag 2:6-7
6 For thus saith the LORD of hosts; Yet once, it is a little while, and I will shake the heavens, and the earth, and the sea, and the dry land;
7 And I will shake all nations, and the desire of all nations shall come: and I will fill this house with glory, saith the LORD of hosts.
(KJV)

Apostle Paul quoting that Haggai Scripture at the end of Hebrews 9; it's about a shaking of this earth to end this present world. It is compared with another time when God did it, which is what Jer.4:23-28 is about.

 

[charlesj]

It would nice if it were just that easy. Just because God gave words in a universal destruction sense for the fall of historical kingdoms like Babylon, Egypt, Persia, etc., does not mean those declarations were metaphorical only for those histories. Often they are words given to also point to the ending of this world at Christ's second coming.


Amos 8:9
9 And it shall come to pass in that day, saith the Lord GOD, that I will cause the sun to go down at noon, and I will darken the earth in the clear day:
(KJV)

God darkened the daytime with the plagues upon Egypt, and at the time of Christ's death upon the cross. It was literal.

Isa 13:10-13
10 For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.
11 And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible.
12 I will make a man more precious than fine gold; even a man than the golden wedge of Ophir.
13 Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of the LORD of hosts, and in the day of His fierce anger.
(KJV)

The ultimate day of His fierce anger will be on the day on His return, called 'the day of The LORD'. A destruction of this present world time will accompany that. These are all OT examples for that coming final day.

Amos 5:8
8 Seek Him That maketh the seven stars and Orion, and turneth the shadow of death into the morning, and maketh the day dark with night: that calleth for the waters of the sea, and poureth them out upon the face of the earth: The LORD is His name:
(KJV)

God poured out waters upon the earth as a destruction in times of old, which is what Jer.4:23-28 was about, and it was literal.

Micah 3:5-8
5 Thus saith the LORD concerning the prophets that make My people err, that bite with their teeth, and cry, Peace; and he that putteth not into their mouths, they even prepare war against him.
6 Therefore night shall be unto you, that ye shall not have a vision; and it shall be dark unto you, that ye shall not divine; and the sun shall go down over the prophets, and the day shall be dark over them.
7 Then shall the seers be ashamed, and the diviners confounded: yea, they shall all cover their lips; for there is no answer of God.
8 But truly I am full of power by the spirit of the LORD, and of judgment, and of might, to declare unto Jacob his transgression, and to Israel his sin.
(KJV)

There's an example of who that darkness is prepared for.

Matt 24:29-30
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
(KJV)

There will be a literal shaking of this earth on that day of Christ's return, to end this present world (see 2 Pet.3:10 also).

Rev 6:12-13
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
(KJV)

That 6th seal event will involve a major prophetic event to come upon this earth, an event that will mark the start of the great tribulation.

Isa 24:21-23
21 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the LORD shall punish the host of the high ones that are on high, and the kings of the earth upon the earth.
22 And they shall be gathered together, as prisoners are gathered in the pit, and shall be shut up in the prison, and after many days shall they be visited.
23 Then the moon shall be confounded, and the sun ashamed, when the LORD of hosts shall reign in mount Zion, and in Jerusalem, and before His ancients gloriously.
(KJV)

The sun being darkened and the moon not being confounded is about God's Light existing in Jerusalem on earth when He returns to reign.

Isa 60:19
19 The sun shall be no more thy light by day; neither for brightness shall the moon give light unto thee: but the LORD shall be unto thee an everlasting light, and thy God thy glory.
(KJV)

Joel 2:10-11
10 The earth shall quake before them; the heavens shall tremble: the sun and the moon shall be dark, and the stars shall withdraw their shining:
11 And the LORD shall utter His voice before His army: for His camp is very great: for he is strong that executeth His word: for the day of the LORD is great and very terrible; and who can abide it?
(KJV)

That's in reference to the end of this world, even though it was given in the Book of Joel.

Joel 2:30-32
30 And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke.
31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.
32 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call.
(KJV)

And even back in Joel, those descriptions are used to point to the end of this world with the day of The LORD. The day of The LORD is what starts Christ's future thousand years reign. It happens at the same time of His coming.

Joel 3:15-16
15 The sun and the moon shall be darkened, and the stars shall withdraw their shining.
16 The LORD also shall roar out of Zion, and utter His voice from Jerusalem; and the heavens and the earth shall shake: but the LORD will be the hope of His people, and the strength of the children of Israel.
(KJV)

Hag 2:6-7
6 For thus saith the LORD of hosts; Yet once, it is a little while, and I will shake the heavens, and the earth, and the sea, and the dry land;
7 And I will shake all nations, and the desire of all nations shall come: and I will fill this house with glory, saith the LORD of hosts.
(KJV)

Apostle Paul quoting that Haggai Scripture at the end of Hebrews 9; it's about a shaking of this earth to end this present world. It is compared with another time when God did it, which is what Jer.4:23-28 is about.

(NOTE: SOME OF MY WORDS ARE RUN TOGETHER. I HAVE CORRECTED IT THREE TIMES, BUT WHEN I SAVE IT, THEY COME BACK RUN TOGETHER AGAIN ON CHRISTIANITY BOARD SERVER)[font="'Arial Black"]

Hello Veteran:

I want to thank you for your input. The scriptures you used help us how we are to understand what we read in the N.T. I don’t agree with all you said especially when you apply some of these scriptures to the “end of the world.”

Also, I looked your profile and can see you are a Vietnam vet. I am also a Vietnam vet, but never served in Vietnam. I was in the Navy 6 years with the NavalSecurity Group and then went into the Marines for four years. I was trained for combat, but never went to Vietnam. I still shoot about once a month on the riflerange with another Marine who served in combat. The battles he was in left a lot of damage to him both in his mind and his health. He is a Christian now, praise the Lord.

Veteran, Thanks for your service time to our country.



Let’s get back to something more interesting.

Jesus gave a parable to the chief priests and elders of Hisday while on the temple grounds:

[sup]33[/sup]Hear another parable: There was a man that wasa householder, who planted a vineyard, and set a hedge about it, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into another country. [sup]34[/sup]And when the season of the fruits drew near, he sent his servants to the husbandmen, to receive his fruits. [sup]35[/sup]And the husbandmen took his servants, and beat one, and killed another, and stonedanother. [sup]36[/sup]Again, he sent other servants more than the first: and they did unto them in like manner. [sup]37[/sup]But afterward he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son. [sup]38[/sup]But the husbandmen,when they saw the son, said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and take his inheritance. [sup]39[/sup]And they took him, and cast him forth out of the vineyard, and killed him. [sup]40[/sup]When therefore the lord of the vineyard shall come, what will he do unto those husbandmen? [sup]41[/sup]They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those miserable men, and will let out the vineyard unto other husbandmen, who shall render him the fruits in their seasons. (Matthew 21:33-41, ASV)



Jesus, in this parable, was describing God as a householder. The Jews were pictured as the husbandmen who should have brought forth fruits for the householder. God’s prophets and servants (pictured as servants who were beaten and slain) and then Himself pictured as the son who at last was sent. The Jews not only didn’t bring forth spiritual fruit for God, but instead persecuted and killed the prophets and later the disciples. Finally God sent His Son into the world, but they also killed Him.

A question was presented to the chief priests and elders asto what should be done to these wicked husbandmen? They replied that the householder would destroy those wicked men and turn over the vineyard to other people who would bring forth fruits for the householder.

In Matthew 21:42, Jesus plainly indicated He was talking about Himself as He referred to the “stone which the builders rejected,” and then He said to them,“therefore say I unto you, the kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing froth the fruits thereof” (21:43)

*Keep this passage in mind, because it relates to the prophecy of Jesus in Matthew 24. These wicked chief priests and Pharisees understood perfectly that Jesus was talking about them (21:45).

There was no doubt that Jesus told them the kingdom of God would be taken away from the Jews and given to another nation who would bring forth the fruits thereof.

1Peter 2:9tells us who that nation is. (Christians!)

These priests and Pharisees unknowingly prophesied their own coming destruction when they said, “He will miserably destroy those miserablemen…”

Hear Isaiah when he was speaking of this event, “…the Lord God shall slay thee, and call his servants by another name.” (Is 65:15) (That “another name is ‘Christian.’)

In Matthew 23 Jesus pronounces 8 woes upon the scribes and Pharisees. Jesus told the scribes and Pharisees in Matt 23 they persecuted, scourged and killed the prophets that He sent to them, and that because of this “upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whomye slew between the temple and the altar.

Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon THIS GENERATION.” (Matt. 23:34-36)

As we enter into Matthew 24, Jesus gives the timetable as to when the Jewish people would be punished for their rejection of God’s servants and of Himself, and when the kingdom of God would be taken away from them and given to another nation. It would all happen in “THIS GENERATION,” Jesus said, it would happen during the generation of those living then.

This conversation with the scribes and Pharisees must have taken place inside the temple as we see in Matthew 21:23. Now in the first verse of Matthew 24 we see Jesus leaving the temple grounds. “24 And Jesus wentout from the temple, and was going on his way; and his disciples came to him toshow him the buildings of the temple.”

As they were leaving, His disciples begin to point out the various buildings of the temple and no doubt to discuss how great the building was.

The stones themselves at these building were fabulous insize. Those in the foundations were as much as 60 feet long and some greater than 67 feet or more long. The stones were almost 8 feet high and 9 feetwide. The Jewish people thought there was nothing like this building in the whole world.

The temples of Jerusalem have a long history. This is the “third”temple in Jerusalem. The first was Solomon’s temple and was erected in the 10[sup]th[/sup] century B.C. It was destroyed in 587 or 586 B.C. by Nebuchadnezzar II, the king of Babylon. The 2[sup]nd[/sup] temple was the one which was rebuilt by the Jewish leader Zerubbabel by 516 B.C. at the end of 70 years of Babylonian captivity. It was the second temple that was desecrated by Antiochus Epiphanes, king of Syria, in 168B.C.

The temple in the time of Jesus was called Herod’stemple. It was begun in 19 B.C. by Herod the Great, king of Judea, and was completed about A.D. 64. Herod had kept 10,000 workmen employed in building this temple for eight successive years.

It was a sight to behold for those in Jesus’ day.



It’s in the last part of Matthew 23 that we find the plaintive heart cry of Jesus as he thinks of how these people have rejected Him and of their fate awaiting them because of this. He said, “[sup]37[/sup]O Jerusalem, Jerusalem,that killeth the prophets, and stoneth them that are sent unto her! how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth herchickens under her wings, and ye would not!” (23:37) The He says, “[sup]38[/sup]Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.”

What? Didn’t Jesus remember all those marvelous blessings promised to Israel (Deut 22), etc? Yes, but Jesus also was reminded of the negative aspects of the promises of God too – that not only were blessings promised, based on faithfulness to Him; but curses were promised if they disobeyed. He remembered all the warnings. He knew that God’s wrath toward Israel was not filled up and must soon be poured out – and in that generation too!

Jesus statement that their house would be left unto them desolate was His prophecy of the coming destruction of Jerusalem,God’s wrath and judgment that would be poured out upon them in A.D. 70 (Startedin A.D. 67) and the utter desolation of both the city and the Temple. These tragic and prophetic words of Jesus were uttered at the end of His ministry, just several days before He was crucified. THIS WAS THE LAST TIME JESUS EVER WENT INTOTHE TEMPLE.

Brother Luke also tells us of the concern of Jesus and His prediction concerning their fate:

“[sup]41[/sup]And when he drew nigh, he saw the city and wept over it, [sup]42[/sup]saying, If thou hadst known in this day, even thou,the things which belong unto peace! but now they are hid from thine eyes. [sup]43[/sup]For the days shall come upon thee, when thine enemies shall cast up a bank about thee, and compass thee round, and keep thee in on every side, [sup]44[/sup]and shall dash thee to the ground, and thy children within thee; and they shall not leave in thee one stone upon another; because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation.” (Luke 19:41-44,ASV)

From the time of Antiochus Epiphanes (185 B.C.) until Jerusalem was destroyed by General Titus in A.D. 70, Israel was a backslidden nation. The events of Antiochus did not remedy the condition of Israel; and when Jesus came, He came to a group of people to whom He constantly preached repentance and warning of further wrath to come.

No wonder the scathing denunciations of Christ to the Jewish leaders in Matthew 23 were so harsh as He predicted in the following chapter 24 the judgment and wraththat would come upon them.

For those who read Matthew 24, also read the parallel books, Mark 13:1-33; Juke 17:20-37 Luke 19:41-44; and Luke 21:5-36.

If we get into Matthew 24, may the Lord bless us as we study it. May we all (me included) come to His Truth, that is what counts!



Your servant in Christ,

charlesj[/font]

 

[veteran]

Hi Charles,

Thanks for you service to our country also. I was a USAF B-52D crew chief. I participated in the evactuation of Saigon in '75. Spent rest of my hitch in Europe with MAC.

Thanks for the Bible lesson. But like yourself, I don't agree with it all either. Here's why...


Matt 24:29-37
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but My words shall not pass away.
36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but My Father only.
37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
(KJV)

What is that our Lord says, "is near, even at the doors"? It's His second coming, the part He covered in the 30-31 and 35-37 verses.

Our Lord put a time qualifier for that generation. It would be when that generation saw all those things fulfilled. That includes the event of Christ's coming and our gathering also, His second coming, as given with that fig tree parable.

The rest of that Matt.24 chapter are more examples of the days of His coming.

That's why I cannot accept that Matt.24 prophecy as being already past history. It would be to imply that Christ's second coming was past history. It is not.

However, some of those events do serve as a blueprint for history like the Romans destroying Jerusalem and the temple in 70 A.D.

That's the idea I was giving in my previous post from the OT Scriptures in the prophets. There's passages within the prophets that do not fit the details of history. Those passages are mixed among passages that were fulfilled in history to a tee. Our Heavenly Father is very accurate. When He gives a detailed prophecy, that's how it's gonna' happen. If only some of the detail fits history, while other parts do not, then the parts that don't are still expecting until they occur as written.

Matthew 24 and Mark 13 are like that also:

1. Christ's second coming did not happen in 70 A.D.
2. Not every stone of the temple mount complex was destroyed (Wailing Wall still stands)
3. Christ's saints were not gathered to Him then
4. Heaven and earth did not pass away
5. All wars did not stop
6. The Romans did not set up the abomination that maketh desolate

About the only events of Matt.24 that fit the Romans in 70 A.D. was the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple, people fleeing Judea, and Josephus mentioned about a false messiah that drew some into the desert.

The Dan.11 event our Lord quoted of the one who is to place the abomination that maketh desolate did not happen and is especially notable. Before the Romans could take the temple, it burned down. Per Josephus, the Romans had planned to sieze the temple entact. They didn't, so no abomination was setup in the temple, which is a particular of the Daniel prophecy.

Concerning the events of Matt.23 about the scribes and Pharisees, indeed a judgment was pronounced upon them. And the Roman army did make Jerusalem and the temple desolate. But that's still not what the abomination that maketh desolate is about that Christ quoted from Daniel in the next chapter.

Antiochus Epiphanes in 165-170 B.C. conquered Jerusalem with an army, went into the temple and sacrificed swine upon the altar, spread its broth, and then set up an abomination for false worship inside the temple, and commanded all to worship it. That underlined part the Romans did not do in 70 A.D., nor anyone else has of yet except Antiochus. And yet, Antiochus had already been dead for around 60 years when our Lord Jesus quoted Daniel about the coming abomination. Antiochus almost fit the Daniel prophecy to a tee, yet Christ's first coming hadn't even come then in 165 B.C.

All this is not hard to figure, it just requires patience and attention to the prophetic details.

 

[charlesj]

Hi Charles,

Thanks for you service to our country also. I was a USAF B-52D crew chief. I participated in the evactuation of Saigon in '75. Spent rest of my hitch in Europe with MAC.

Thanks for the Bible lesson. But like yourself, I don't agree with it all either. Here's why...


Matt 24:29-37
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but My words shall not pass away.
36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but My Father only.
37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
(KJV)

What is that our Lord says, "is near, even at the doors"? It's His second coming, the part He covered in the 30-31 and 35-37 verses.

Our Lord put a time qualifier for that generation. It would be when that generation saw all those things fulfilled. That includes the event of Christ's coming and our gathering also, His second coming, as given with that fig tree parable.

The rest of that Matt.24 chapter are more examples of the days of His coming.

That's why I cannot accept that Matt.24 prophecy as being already past history. It would be to imply that Christ's second coming was past history. It is not.

However, some of those events do serve as a blueprint for history like the Romans destroying Jerusalem and the temple in 70 A.D.

That's the idea I was giving in my previous post from the OT Scriptures in the prophets. There's passages within the prophets that do not fit the details of history. Those passages are mixed among passages that were fulfilled in history to a tee. Our Heavenly Father is very accurate. When He gives a detailed prophecy, that's how it's gonna' happen. If only some of the detail fits history, while other parts do not, then the parts that don't are still expecting until they occur as written.

Matthew 24 and Mark 13 are like that also:

1. Christ's second coming did not happen in 70 A.D.
2. Not every stone of the temple mount complex was destroyed (Wailing Wall still stands)
3. Christ's saints were not gathered to Him then
4. Heaven and earth did not pass away
5. All wars did not stop
6. The Romans did not set up the abomination that maketh desolate

About the only events of Matt.24 that fit the Romans in 70 A.D. was the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple, people fleeing Judea, and Josephus mentioned about a false messiah that drew some into the desert.

The Dan.11 event our Lord quoted of the one who is to place the abomination that maketh desolate did not happen and is especially notable. Before the Romans could take the temple, it burned down. Per Josephus, the Romans had planned to sieze the temple entact. They didn't, so no abomination was setup in the temple, which is a particular of the Daniel prophecy.

Concerning the events of Matt.23 about the scribes and Pharisees, indeed a judgment was pronounced upon them. And the Roman army did make Jerusalem and the temple desolate. But that's still not what the abomination that maketh desolate is about that Christ quoted from Daniel in the next chapter.

Antiochus Epiphanes in 165-170 B.C. conquered Jerusalem with an army, went into the temple and sacrificed swine upon the altar, spread its broth, and then set up an abomination for false worship inside the temple, and commanded all to worship it. That underlined part the Romans did not do in 70 A.D., nor anyone else has of yet except Antiochus. And yet, Antiochus had already been dead for around 60 years when our Lord Jesus quoted Daniel about the coming abomination. Antiochus almost fit the Daniel prophecy to a tee, yet Christ's first coming hadn't even come then in 165 B.C.

All this is not hard to figure, it just requires patience and attention to the prophetic details.

Hi Veteran:


I get the idea that you think I am trying to do away with Christ’s next coming or
you think that I think His next coming is past and that’s it? You use the phrase “second coming,” but there
has been “many comings” of Christ since He was raised from the dead. The next coming will be His final.


Hebrews
9:24-28

24 For Christ entered not into a holy place made with hands, like in pattern to the true; but into heaven
itself, now to appear before the face of God for us:

25 nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place year by year with blood not his
own;

26 else must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once at the end of the ages hath he
been manifested to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

27 And inasmuch as it is appointed unto men once to die, and after this cometh judgment;

28 so Christ also, having been once offered to bear the sins of many, shall appear a second time, apart from sin, to them that
wait for him, unto salvation.


Christ came “at the end of the ages” the first time He came to bear our sins, but the next time He comes will not to be to bear sin.
When He came the first time, it was the “end of the ages.” This “end of the ages” here in Hebrews 9:26, “…συντελείᾳ τῶν αἰώνων…” is the SAME Greek words
with the exception that in Heb 9:26 shows that Christ came at the end of “ages,” (plural) whereas Matthew 24:3 shows
the Greek word for “age” is in the singular. (συντελείας τοῦ αἰῶνος)


The end of the ages had come when Christ was on earth and a new age, a FINAL age, was beginning, that is, the Christian age.


By the way, the KJV translates this “end of the world”, but the New KJV corrects this and translates it “end of the age.”



(When Christ was on earth, He spoke of two ages when He said, “And whoever shall speak a word against the Son of Man, it
shall be forgiven him; but whoever shall speak against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this age, or in the age
to come.’ (Matt 12:32))


He spoke of “this age,” , that is, the age HE was in and the “age to come,” that is, the N.T. age.




With the exception of the Book of Revelation all the books of the N.T. were written before A.D. 70.
Therefore, when you see “last days” mentioned in the N.T. books always take a look at the context because most likely it is referring to the end of that
age, the O.T. age and doesn’t refer to our age.
For example, “Long ago, at many times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets, [sup]2[/sup]but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son…” (Heb
1:1,2 ESV)


The Hebrew writer here uses the phrase “…these last days” in reference to the end of the age he was in, that is, the end of the Jewish system was fixing to end
A.D. 70 and another age would begin. The new age is the age you and I are in, the Christian age.

Again, there are many “comings” in the N.T. of Christ. The word “coming” is found in Matthew 24:3, 27, 37 & 39 is from the Greek
noun parousia which means ‘arrival, or presence.” It does not have the meaning of the word “return” though in some cases it could involve that meaning
also. The word involves an “event” as well as the idea of “duration”; in other words, it is not only something that happens, but it can mean “that
whoever has come is now here; that is, the person arrives, and also is here” now. It can mean either both.


Now, all the comings of Christ in the N.T. are not all from the Greek word “parousia.” The coming
of Christ is not one single solitary event.


Jesus told His apostles, “But whenever they persecute you in one city, flee to the next; for truly I say to you, you will not finish going
through the cities of Israel until the Son of Man comes (erchomai).” -Matt 10:23


Whatever Jesus was talking about here in Matthew, He was referring to a “coming” in a very short while. This “coming” was in the apostles lifetime! (Before A.D. 70)



His coming (parousia) was manifested on the Mount of Transfiguration, and Peter said of that event,


“For we did not follow cleverly devised tales when we made known to you the power and coming (parousia) of our Lord Jesus
Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of His majesty. For when He received honor and glory from God the Father, such an utterance as this was made to Him by the
Majestic Glory, This is My beloved Son with whom I am well-pleased— and we ourselves heard this utterance made from heaven when we were with Him on the
holy mountain.” 2 Peter 1:16-18


Even though lasting only briefly, the transfiguration of Jesus was a literal manifestation or revelation of His glorious coming and presence.



As Jesus gave the great commission to His apostles, He told them, “…teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am
with you always, even to the end of the age.” (Matt 28:20)



This verse indicates His continuous presence (parousia) in the world in relationship to His apostles, but without
physical presence. No less is it true that His coming/presence in A.D. 70 would be true without a physical presence.



Following His ascension, He came to His apostles in the person of the Holy Spirit as He had promised. He had told them, “14.
I will not leave you as orphans; I will come (erchomai) to you. …18. But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in
My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you.” (Jn 14:18,26)


Paul indicated that Christ has come to abide in the heart of each believer, and he said, “Now if any man has not the Spirit of
Christ, he is none of his, and if Christ be in you…” (Rom 8:9,10)


The Holy Spirit lives in the life of each individual believer (See Rom 8:11; 1 Cor 3:16 & 6:19), and Paul equates this with Christ being in us.


Jesus told the church at Pergamos, “Repent; or else I will COME (erchomai) unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with
the sword of my mouth.” (Rev 2:16). This was a “conditional” coming.


There are many other comings. For a few, Rev 3:3; Matt 18:20. Christ “appeared” to Paul (Acts 9:7; 26:16)


The “coming” of Christ at the great White Throne Judgment Rev 20:11-15 will be a future coming for who has ever lived.



In Mark 13:32 is a parallel passage to Matt 24:36, and the words are almost identical: “But of
that day or that hour knoweth no one, not even the angels in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.



This passage says that even Jesus didn’t know the day or hour of that event.


What was Jesus talking about in this verse? Mark records the question of the disciples in this way:

“Tell us, when shall these things be? And what shall be the SIGN when ALL THESE THINGS shall be fulfilled?” (Mk 13:4)


Whereas Matthew 24:3 asked about the “sign of thy coming,” Mark 13:4 asked about the “sign
when all these things shall be fulfilled.” SAME THING!!!


Those things asked about included the coming of Christ in judgment on Jerusalem.
And the disciples in their question in Mark 13:4 never mentioned the coming of Christ,
but yet Jesus said in verse 36 that no man knew the day nor the hour when those
events would take place. These verses are parallel (Matthew 24:36 and Mark 13:32) and refer to the
same identical thing – the events of the destruction of Jerusalem as took place
in A.D. 70 when Christ came in judgment there.


Now, take a look at Luke 17:31 which refers to “that day.” But read the rest of the verse to see what Jesus was
referring to.


“In that day, he that shall be on the housetop, and his goods in the house, let him not go down to take them away: and let him that
is in the field likewise not return back.”


This is clearly referring to the haste the disciples would be in to leave Jerusalem in A.D. 67. The time is the same as in Matthew 24:17, MUCH PRIOR
to the verse in Matt 24:36!!



Jesus was NOT introducing a new subject in Matthew 24:36 when He said “But of THAT DAY…” The word “that” has to refer to something which precedes
it, and in this instance it would have to refer to the time mentioned in the previous verses.


One cannot make “that day” refer to a future event (to us, 2100 years later!).


Read all the parallel passages in Matthew 24:1-42, Mark 13:1-33, Luke 17:20-37 and Luke 21:5-36, and see if by any stretch of imagination
one can see Jesus talking about two different events in His teachings in these passages.


On the parable of the fig tree, Matt 24:32ff. The true interpretation is so obvious as to render explanation scarcely necessary.
Its bearing on the people of Israel is most distinct and direct, more especially when viewed in connection with the preceding warnings. Israel is the fruitless tree, long
cultivated, but yielding no return to the owner. (See Isaiah 5, almost a counterpart)



It was now on its last trial: the axe, as John the Baptist had declared, was laid to the root of the tree; but the fatal blow was delayed
at the intercession of mercy. The Savior was even then at His gracious work of nurture and culture; a little longer, and
the decree would go fourth – ‘Cut it down; why cumbereth it the ground?’


Matthew 23 builds up to chapter 24. Messiah Jesus gives 8 woes (in Matt 23)
and tells them “…all these things will happen to this generation.” (23:36)


Matthew 24:27 “For just as the lightning comes from the east, and flashes even to the west, so shall the coming of the Son of
Man be.”


Verse 27. For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west. It is worthy of remark that our Lord, in the
most particular manner, points out the very march of the Roman army: they entered into Judea on the EAST, and carried on their conquest WESTWARD, as if
not only the extensiveness of the ruin, but the very route which the army would take, were intended in the comparison of the lightning issuing from the east,
and shining to the west. (Adam Clark commentary, Matt 24;27)


Parallel to Matthew 24 is Luke 17:24
“for as the lightning, when it lighteneth out of the one part under the heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven; so shall the Son of man be in his day.”


Lk 24:17:“-- in his day. In the day when he shall come to judgment and his power shall be manifested in the destruction of Jerusalem. Bp. Mann.” -British Family Bible



“The destruction of Jerusalem is described as his coming.” Albert Barnes Commentary, on Matthew 24:27.



Before I pass over the great tribulation mentioned in Matthew 24:21 I would like to summarize all the main events from the time of escape of the Christians from Jerusalem up to the time of when the Romans circled Jerusalem. Titus camped his armies outside Jerusalem.


Most of this information can be found in the Jewish Historian Josephus writings. (The Works of Josephus, vol. 1, The War of the Jews.)


Some of these details he gives are awful, horrible and even sickening of what went on inside those walls of the city. These surely were the days of “great tribulation.”


I will also cite other sources.


In A.D. 64 Nero began his persecution of Christians from Rome. This may not have anything to do with the war
against Jerusalem, but FYI.


Nero persecuted the Christians about 3 ½ years during A.D.64-68 and would fit into the time slot as the approximate 3 ½ years of
tribulation upon the Jewish people in Jerusalem from A.D. 67-70, with several months separating the two periods. If the Christians had not fled from Judea and
Jerusalem after Cestius Gallus (He first came against Jerusalem then ceased his attack for two months) withdrawal from the city, they also
would have suffered the awful consequences of what happened in those days. During that interval of two months the disciples
of Christ remembered what He had told them about the destruction of Jerusalem and “when you see the armies circle Jerusalem” flee!


When General Titus came against the city, he felt that by destroying the Jews he would thereby get rid of the Christians as well. But when he did come into the city, he did not
find any Christians there.


My dates may be off a little, but will be in the ball park of events that I will mention. The first stage of the war against Jerusalem
was by Cestius Gallus October 15-22, A.D. 66. On November 17[sup]th[/sup] Cestius led his troops into Jerusalem,
but was turned back by the Jews. He withdrew and fled. Remember, at this point, Christians were still in Jerusalem.



As Cestius fled, it presented a lull of about two months. It was at this time that the Christians escaped to to Pella.
Remember, Jesus told them in Matthew 24:15-21, “15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in
the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand

16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:

18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.


The parallel account in Mark says, “But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then recognize that her desolation is near. Then those who are in Judea
must flee to the mountains, and those who are in the midst of the city must leave, and those who are in the country must not enter the city; because these
are days of vengeance, so that all things which are written will be fulfilled. Woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days;
for there will be great distress upon the land and wrath to this people; and they will fall by the edge of the sword, and will be led captive into all the
nations; and Jerusalem will be trampled under foot by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.” (Mark 21:20-24 NAS)


So, with the warnings of Jesus the Christians remembered and fled the city to Pella.

By the way, soon after his return to Rome Gallus died (before the spring of 67), and was succeeded in the governorship by Licinius Mucianus Emperor Nero appointed General , Vespasian the
future Emperor, instead to crush the rebellion. The next year Nero sent Vespasian to stop the rebellion. Vespasian commission was in A.D. 67, and the declaration of war against Judea
occurred in the early part of February of that year. It was three years and six months later, on August 10, A.D. 70, that Jerusalem was destroyed.

This is the 42 months (3 ½ years,1260 days) during which the holy city was to be given to the Gentiles to tread under foot, according to Revelation 11:2. Most of all of Judea
was destroyed before they even reached Jerusalem.

Josephus had served as governor and was taken in battle at Jotapata and gave up to the Romans. Vespasian took a liking to Josephus and later
became a translator for Titus. After the war, Josephus spent five years writing his history of the Jewish people.

Without a governor in Jerusalem there was a lot of wickedness going on. Robbers themselves appointed high priests of “unknown and ignoble persons” who would
cooperate with them in their wickedness (Josephus, 294)

One of the best esteemed priests chosen, Ananus, said, “Certainly it had been good for me to die before I had seen the
house of God full of so man abominations” (Josephus, 296).

Ananus accused the people of allowing all this to happen, and exhorted them to overthrow those robbers and
Zealots who wanted to go to war against Rome.
Ananus chose 6,000 armed men as the wicked men had gone into the holy part of the Temple and secured themselves
there, staining that sanctuary with their own blood (Josephus, 300) The zealots who were in control sent messengers
to the Idumeans to come and help them (Josephus 303,304) and 20,000 of them came to Jerusalem (J. 304) for this purpose. The gates were closed to the Idumeans by
Ananus, but men from the Temple went with saws and opened the gates and let the Idumeans in (J.,311) They succeeded in coming into the city at
night during a heavy dowpour of rain, and they began murdering and looting. 8,500 people were slain (J.313). The Idumeans plundered every house, and
killed the high priests, including Ananus.

Josephus said, “I shall not mistake if I said that the death of Ananus was the beginning of the destruction
of the city, and that from this very day may be dated the overthrow of her wall, and the ruin of her affairs” (J. 313)
Josephus also added, “and I cannot but think that it was because God had doomed this city to destruction, as a polluted city, and was resolved to purge
his sanctuary by fire, that he cut off these their great defenders and well-wishers” (J. 314)


The Idumeans then slaughtered people to the extent of 12,000 (J. 315).
After the Idumeans left, the Zealots killed more of the people. All this caused Vespasian to bide his time in
coming and attacking Jerusalem “while their enemies are destroying each other with their own hands” (Josephus 319)
Vast numbers of dead bodies lay in heaps,” and the Zealots would not allow them to be buried. (J. 320).

Vespasian in the meantime took Gadara (15,000 plus slain), and then laid waste to other cities which were revolting from Nero
(J.326, 327). The people of Jerusalem were kept sealed in the city by the Zealots (Josephus 332). The empire passed to Galba who reigned 7
months and 7 days, and was slain, then to Otho, who killed himself after reigning 3 months and 2 days. Then Vesalius
held the government 8 months and 5 days

Just a “side note,” Notice you have three emperors’ who ONLY remain a very SHORT time. These 3 are a “part” of the
kings that Daniel saw. I DON’T want to get in the Book of Daniel or the Book of Revelation at this time, but I want
you to “hold you finger here” and remember I told you about the 3 emperors’ who only reined a short time. This ALL fits
in with Daniel 7 and Revelation 17:9-12. Just of my cuff, Daniel sees 11 kings and John in Revelation only mentions or sees 8. Why?
Three of the emperors’ are not mentioned by John and these are the three I’ve mentioned above. In John, the heads
represent kings (Rev 17:10), while in Daniel the horns represented kings (7:24)


In Daniel, three of the kings are“uprooted” by the eleventh king now to become the eighth (Dan 7:24) and in revelation,
three are ignored and we are left with eight. John takes the vision from Daniel as he finds it with three missing.

I want to get back to my thoughts on Matthew 24, but briefly: I will show you what Daniel saw and comparison with John.


Daniel………………….John

1.Augustus……………..Augustus

2. Tibrius……………….Tibrius

3. Caligula………………Caligula

4. Claudius………………Claudius

5. Nero……………………Nero

6. Galba*

7. Otho*

8. Vitellius*

9. Vespasian……………….Vespasian

10. Titus……………………Titus

11. Domitian………………..Domitian


* These are the 3 that are “uprooted” in Daniel.


If you want to “date” the Book of Revelation writing, then go to Revelation 17:10ff and we have 5 have fallen, that is, Augustus, Tiberius, Caligula,
Claudius, and Nero. John writes, 5 have fallen “ONE IS”… that would be the next emperor according to John’s count and that would be Vespasian and then there is “one not yet to come.”


The “ONE IS” is Vespasian. He was reigning when John wrote. (I’ve heard most of the arguments on a later date, but “one is” nails it down.)

The Lord willing, I will deal with the Book of Revelation later.


Now, back to Jerusalem, a city under siege and GREATTRIBULATION.


More warring broke out by another faction led by a Simon with 20,000 armed men who ravaged cities and villages as
he planned to go on to Jerusalem and take it. At this time John Levi was in control at Jerusalem. The high
priests and people decided to admit Simon and his army into the city to put
down John and the Zedalots (Josephus 339) Simon then gained possession of Jerusalem. (Josephus 340)

After Nero’s death, Vespasian hastened back to Rome for the purpose of becoming emperor. July
A.D. 69 he became emperor. Vespasian sent his son Titus with a select party of his army to destroy Jerusalem (J. 349)

Titus meanwhile had gotten ARMIES together at Caesarea, ordering other armies to meet him at Jerusalem,
and he marched to Jerusalem.
He had armies from Italy, Syria,Egypt and Greece (Josephus, 356) (Remember Jesus said, “when you see Jerusalem surrounded by ARMIES…FLEE!)

Before Simon took over Jerusalem, John Levi had “set on fire those houses that were full of corn, and of all other provisions.
The same thing was done by Simon… almost all the corn was burnt, which would have been sufficient for a siege of many years” (Josephus, 345)

In Jerusalem, all who were opposed to the rebellion against Rome were imprisoned and killed by the
Zealots. TRULY THIS TIME FOR JERUSALEM WAS A “GREAT TRIBULATION.”

May the Lord Bless us with His Word and may we honor the GREAT KING JESUS!

Your servaint in Messiah,

charlesj

 

[veteran]

I didn't infer you were trying to do away with Christ's second coming. But I do feel the Preterist doctrine you're declaring does belittle Christ's second coming, especially when He made the matter very plain and easy to understand.


Heb 9:26-28
26 For then must He often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.
27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for Him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
(KJV)

Verse 26 is about Christ's first coming to die on the cross. His coming the "second time" of verse 28 is about His coming He declared to His disciples while upon the Mount of Olives...

Mark 13:24-27
24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
27 And then shall He send His angels, and shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.
(KJV)

God's Word only declares 2 comings of our Lord Jesus. His appearance to His disciples after His Resurrection were not about His second coming at the end of this world. So I'm not going to argue with you about that. The Scripture makes it very plain.