Got Questions? Genesis 1:26-31 Matthew 28:18-21 Revelation 1:8 Guest Speaker Pat Haye
common misinterpretations due to the Metaphors & Homonyms
common misinterpretations due to the Metaphors & Homonyms
Proselyting Techniques of Mormon Missionaries
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Alma 31:15 “Holy, holy God; we believe that thou art God, and we believe that thou art holy, and that thou wast a spirit, and that thou art a spirit, and that thou wilt be a spirit forever.”
You literally ignored everything I said, and just copied pasted other websites.
I'm here to have a two-way conversation with YOU. One where we both listen and share.
I'm here to have a two-way conversation with YOU. One where we both listen and share.
Both the Bible and good philosophy report that God is non-physical - spirit. In John 4:24 it is said that God is spirit (see also Luke 24:39; Romans 1:20; Colossians 1:15; 1 Timothy 1:17). This is why no material thing was to be used to represent God (Exodus 20:4). But this can also be shown by reflecting on what God is. Philosophically the same truth comes through. All that is created is necessarily finite and limited. But the first cause (God) is uncreated, and therefore must be non-finite, or infinite. That which is beyond the finite must, by definition, be infinite, and the Bible states that God is beyond creation (1 Kings 8:27; Job 11:7-9; Isaiah 66:1-2; Colossians 1:17). That which is physical cannot be infinite - for you cannot add finite parts together until they reach infinity. Therefore God is spirit as opposed to physical/material in His Being. This does not mean He cannot localize a physical appearance. God is not composed of matter nor any other imaginable substance. He also cannot be measured, is not spatial, and has no true location (presence is a different concept).
Knowing this truth can help us understand the metaphorical speech often used to describe God or, more often, God’s actions in Scripture. In the case of God, once all finitude is negated from a statement, what is left is what is actually true. If nothing is left, then it is a pure metaphor. Some metaphors use attributes from creation itself (2 Samuel 22:3). Others use man’s attributes (anthropomorphism - Deuteronomy 33:27). In this way we can go from what we know by experience to what we know through the metaphors. For example, when Scripture describes God’s mighty arm we know that arms are by definition limited - but might is not. So God’s mighty arm is actually unlimited power to act (what we call omnipotence). When Scripture describes God’s mind, we know that minds are limited, but knowledge is not. God’s mind is actually His infinite knowledge (what we call omniscience).
There were times in the Bible when God appeared in a physical body in order to be seen by men in a form which they could perceive without danger to themselves. Because God said, “No man can see me and live” (Exodus 33:20), He chose at certain times to reveal Himself in human form. These occurrences are called theophanies (Genesis 12:7-9; 18:1-33; 32:22-30). Every theophany wherein God takes on human form foreshadows the incarnation, where God took the form of a man to live among us as Emmanuel, “God with us” (Matthew 1:23).
Knowing this truth can help us understand the metaphorical speech often used to describe God or, more often, God’s actions in Scripture. In the case of God, once all finitude is negated from a statement, what is left is what is actually true. If nothing is left, then it is a pure metaphor. Some metaphors use attributes from creation itself (2 Samuel 22:3). Others use man’s attributes (anthropomorphism - Deuteronomy 33:27). In this way we can go from what we know by experience to what we know through the metaphors. For example, when Scripture describes God’s mighty arm we know that arms are by definition limited - but might is not. So God’s mighty arm is actually unlimited power to act (what we call omnipotence). When Scripture describes God’s mind, we know that minds are limited, but knowledge is not. God’s mind is actually His infinite knowledge (what we call omniscience).
There were times in the Bible when God appeared in a physical body in order to be seen by men in a form which they could perceive without danger to themselves. Because God said, “No man can see me and live” (Exodus 33:20), He chose at certain times to reveal Himself in human form. These occurrences are called theophanies (Genesis 12:7-9; 18:1-33; 32:22-30). Every theophany wherein God takes on human form foreshadows the incarnation, where God took the form of a man to live among us as Emmanuel, “God with us” (Matthew 1:23).
Does God Have A Physical Body? The Biblical Answer
Nearly every religion on earth has an idea of what God looks like physically. If you travel anywhere in this world, you will be sure to find temples, statues, idols, and pictures depicting what gods or goddesses look like within that culture. But does the God of the Bible have a physical body...
justdisciple.com
Why Do Latter-day Saints Believe God Has a Body, When the Bible Says 'God Is a Spirit'? - Saints Unscripted
How do you picture God? Most people see Him as a man, which He is, but resurrected, glorified, perfect, and all-powerful.
saintsunscripted.com
Does God have a physical body? | GotQuestions.org
Does God have a physical body? Does God being spirit mean that He does not have a body?
www.gotquestions.org
Is It Possible Some Mormons Are Saved?
Even though Latter-day Saint theology is radically different from Christianity, Mormons talk of Jesus with great respect, saying He is their savior. Is it possible some of them are saved?
Does God Have a Physical Body?
One of the things that many people wonder about God is His form. Does He have a physical or material body? What does God look like? There are those who reason
www.blueletterbible.org
Three Simple Ways to Show Contradictions in the Mormon Belief of God
You’re at the park playing with your kids and two co...
Part 18 The Father does not have a body
I am answering the question does God the Father have a body? My first point was the Bible teaches God is a spirit (part 17). Here I am giving additional support. − God does not change and never progressed from a man to God Mal. 3:6 “For I, the Lord, do not change; therefore you, […]
Why Do Latter-day Saints Believe God Has a Body, When the Bible Says 'God Is a Spirit'? - Saints Unscripted
How do you picture God? Most people see Him as a man, which He is, but resurrected, glorified, perfect, and all-powerful.
saintsunscripted.com
Does God have a physical body?
Does God have a physical body? How does the Bible describe God? God is spirit, but does He ever show Himself as physical? How does the Bible describe God using physical terms?
www.compellingtruth.org
Does God Have A Physical Body? The Biblical Answer
Nearly every religion on earth has an idea of what God looks like physically. If you travel anywhere in this world, you will be sure to find temples, statues, idols, and pictures depicting what gods or goddesses look like within that culture. But does the God of the Bible have a physical body...
justdisciple.com
How Could Moses See God's Face If God Has No Body? - God Loves Mormons
If Moses spoke to God face-to-face, how can Christians say that God has no body?
godlovesmormons.com
14. The Invisibility of God (Genesis 32:22-30; Exodus 24:9-11; 1 Timothy 1:17) | Bible.org
Introduction One finds little on the subject of God’s invisibility among the books on the attributes of God. Some may reason that God’s invisibility is obvious. Because we cannot see God, why attempt to prove He is invisible? Another might look upon God’s invisibility as a problem, an...
Incorporeality / Immateriality of God - RE:ONLINE
www.reonline.org.uk
How Should We Understand the Feet of God?
"Feet” (or “foot”) occurs 315 times in Scripture (35 about God’s feet). "Footstool” is found 16 times (all refer to God). Learn about the feet of God.
reasonsforhopejesus.com
What does "image" mean in "He is the image of the invisible God", Colossians 1:15?
Colossians 1:15 "He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation". ESV 1 Peter 2:24 "He himself bore our sins in his body". If a coin has someone's head ...
1 John commentary
Chapter 1 1. The reality of god was not a matter of faith with John. He experience god with his senses. He saw, heard, and touched the living god; the god who in the beginning created heaven...
www.thebibleversebyverse.com
God: Spirit or Body – Part 2 – Talking to Mormons
talkingtomormons.com
Does God have a body?
This is a dialogue about whether or not God has a body. It touches on issues of God's nature and physical manifestation as well as O.T. verses.
carm.org
What is your spiritual background?
What is it like to be a Mormon? (religious practices, going to church, missionary work, etc.)
What gets you most excited about being a Mormon?
What scares you the most about being a Mormon?
Is your Mormon faith based on your own decisions and spiritual experiences, or is it something that was handed down to you by your family?
Why do you think that many Christians view Mormonism as falling outside of “Biblical Christianity”?
Why do you believe the Book of Mormon is “another testament of Jesus Christ”?
How can a person know for sure that he or she is going to heaven?
Do you think there’s a difference between a “religion” and the “relationship” with God that Jesus talked about?
How would your friends and family in the Church of Jesus Christ react if you converted to Christianity? How does that make you feel?
Would you be willing to pay the price of being rejected if you were convinced the message I’m about to share with you was true?
Does God have a physical body?
Does God have a physical body? How does the Bible describe God? God is spirit, but does He ever show Himself as physical? How does the Bible describe God using physical terms?
www.compellingtruth.org
I see no reason to reinvent the wheel when others say it better than I can.
(Edited to be more polite)
The reason you (or I or anyone else) should use thier own words to explain what you believe is because it is what YOU believe. Showing your thoughts, learnings, and passion for God.
Jesus taught parables of virgins whom need their own oil in thier lamps- they couldn’t just take from others. To do my own modern paraphrase of this lesson: you can’t copy paste your way to Heaven. Each person needs to have thier own relationship with Christ, thier own learnings, own love.
Your copy-paste spam is a huge turn off for me as it comes as that mindless copy paste, rather than thoughtful discipleship. I want to see your thoughtful discipleship. To have an actual conversation.
The reason you (or I or anyone else) should use thier own words to explain what you believe is because it is what YOU believe. Showing your thoughts, learnings, and passion for God.
Jesus taught parables of virgins whom need their own oil in thier lamps- they couldn’t just take from others. To do my own modern paraphrase of this lesson: you can’t copy paste your way to Heaven. Each person needs to have thier own relationship with Christ, thier own learnings, own love.
Your copy-paste spam is a huge turn off for me as it comes as that mindless copy paste, rather than thoughtful discipleship. I want to see your thoughtful discipleship. To have an actual conversation.
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Is Christ not God?
Do you deny that Christ way born of Mary?
That He was literally physically resurrected?
Yes: God can have a body. To deny this is to flat out deny the divinity and life of Christ. No one here worships The Force from Star Wars.
I think he is speaking of God the Father. And is God separate from Christ? Christ was born of the virgin Mary. What was God born of? That's the thing. isn't it? Did He have parents? Does He need a body because you think He has a wife.? and as an aside why do you call yourself an LDS Christian? Why the LDS prefix? Is there a difference between and LDS and an LDS Christian?
Jesus Christ is divine. The Son of God. He is God. And yes, He has a body and that in no way deminishes His divinity. That’s all agreed upon.
There are many actual real differences in theology between Christian branches (Baptist, Catholic, Orthodox, LDS, etc). I really wish, that if people wanted to talk differences that 1)!talked about real differences in a respectful manner, and 2) not try to use strawman to gatekeep Heaven.
LDS Christian = LDS = “Mormon” = member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.
It is not Spam, it is the truth and facts.
“I have more to boast of than ever
any man had. I am the only man that
has ever been able to keep a whole
church together since the days of Adam. A large majority of the whole have
stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter,
nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no
man ever did such a work as I”
(History of the Church 6:408-409)
Me: JS called Jesus a liar, thus
Jesus said, "I will build my Church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it" - Matthew 16:18 KJV.
2 Timothy 2:19
Easy-to-Read Version
19 But God’s strong foundation never moves, and these words are written on it: “The Lord knows those who belong to him.” Also, these words are written there: “Everyone who says they believe in the Lord must stop doing wrong.”ME: JS false prophecy rules him out as a prophet of God, thus all he wrote and did is garbage and those who follow him are in big trouble on Judgement day.
“And now I am prepared to say by
the authority of Jesus Christ, that not
many years shall pass away before the
United States shall present such a scene
of bloodshed as has not a parallel in the
history of our nation; pestilence, hail,
famine, and earthquake will sweep the
wicked of this generation from off the
face of the land, to open and prepare
the way for the return of the lost tribes
of Israel from the north country” (History of The Church 1:315)
Me: arrogance of JS
“I see no faults in the Church, and
therefore let me be resurrected with the
Saints, whether I ascend to heaven or
descend to hell, or go to any other
place. And if we go to hell, we will turn
the devils out of doors and make a
heaven of it” (Teachings of the Prophet
Joseph Smith, 316)
Me: Murder is not the unforgiviable sin. He contradicts Jesus.
“Remission of sins by baptism was
not to be preached to murderers. All the
priests of Christendom might pray for a
murderer on the scaffold forever, but
could not avail so much as a gnat towards their forgiveness. There is no
forgiveness for murderers” (Discourses
of the Prophet Joseph Smith, 221). This
teaching is found in Doctrine and Covenants 42:18 that reads, “Thou shalt not
kill; and he that kills shall not have
forgiveness in this world, nor in the
world to come.”
(See Teachings of the Prophet Joseph
Smith, 339.)
1 Corinthians 4:6
King James Version
6 And these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to myself and to Apollos for your sakes; that ye might learn in us not to think of men above that which is written, that no one of you be puffed up for one against another.“There are many things in the Bible which
do not, as they now stand, accord with the
revelations of the Holy Ghost to me.”
Teachings of the Prophet
Joseph Smith, 310
“You believe Adam was made of the dust
of this earth. This I do not believe, though
it is supposed that it is so written in the
Bible; but it is not, to my understanding.
You can write that information to the
States, if you please—that I have publicly
declared that I do not believe that portion
of the Bible as the Christian world do. I
never did, and I never want to. What is the
reason I do not? Because I have come to
understanding, and banished from my
mind all the baby stories my mother
taught me when I was a child.”
Brigham Young
Journal of Discourses 2:6
“Many men say there is one God;
the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost
are only one God! I say that is a strange
God anyhow—three in one, and one in
three! It is a curious organization. All
are to be crammed into one God, according to sectarianism. It would make
the biggest God in all the world. He
would be a wonderfully big God —he
would be a giant or a monster” (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph
Smith, 372.).
Me: Since JS "revelations" are not in line with the Bible, that proves he does not listen to God, but to demons.
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That contradicts reproduction, only a spirit can produce spirit babies. A glorified human can only make humans.
Just another stupid teaching of LDS.
1 Corinthians 15
J.B. Phillips New Testament
A reminder of the gospel message: the resurrection is an integral part of our faith
15 1-2 Now, my brothers, I want to speak about the Gospel which I have previously preached to you, which you accepted, in which you are at present standing, and by which, if you remain faithful to the message I gave you, your salvation is being worked out—unless, of course, your faith had no meaning behind it at all.
3-8 For I passed on to you Corinthians first of all the message I had myself received—that Christ died for our sins, as the scriptures said he would; that he was buried and rose again on the third day, again as the scriptures foretold. He was seen by Cephas, then by the twelve, and subsequently he was seen simultaneously by over five hundred Christians, of whom the majority are still alive, though some have since died. He was then seen by James, then by all the messengers. And last of all, as if to one born abnormally late, he appeared to me!
9-11 I am the least of the messengers, and indeed I do not deserve that title at all, because I persecuted the Church of God. But what I am now I am by the grace of God. The grace he gave me has not proved a barren gift. I have worked harder than any of the others—and yet it was not I but this same grace of God within me. In any event, whoever has done the work whether I or they, this has been the message and this has been the foundation of your faith.
If the resurrection is the heart of the gospel how can any Christian deny life after death?
12-19 Now if the rising of Christ from the dead is the very heart of our message, how can some of you deny that there is any resurrection? For if there is no such thing as the resurrection of the dead, then Christ was never raised. And if Christ was not raised then neither our preaching nor your faith has any meaning at all. Further it would mean that we are lying in our witness for God, for we have given our solemn testimony that he did raise up Christ—and that is utterly false if it should be true that the dead do not, in fact, rise again! For if the dead do not rise neither did Christ rise, and if Christ did not rise your faith is futile and your sins have never been forgiven. Moreover those who have died believing in Christ are utterly dead and gone. Truly, if our hope in Christ were limited to this life only we should, of all mankind be the most to be pitied!
But Christianity rests on a fact—Christ did rise
20-23 But the glorious fact is that Christ did rise from the dead: he has become the very first to rise of all who sleep the sleep of death. As death entered the world through a man, so has rising from the dead come to us through a man! As members of a sinful race all men die; as members of the Christ of God all men shall be raised to life, each in his proper order, with Christ the very first and after him all who belong to him when he comes.
24-27 Then, and not till then, authority and power, hands over the kingdom to God the Father. Christ’s reign will and must continue until every enemy has been conquered. The last enemy of all to be destroyed is death itself. The scripture says: ‘He has put all things under his feet’. But in the term “all things” it is quite obvious that God, who brings them all under subjection to Christ, is himself excepted.
28 Nevertheless, when everything created has been made obedient to God, then shall the Son acknowledge himself subject to God the Father, who gave the Son power over all things. Thus, in the end, shall God be wholly and absolutely God.
To refuse to believe in the resurrection is both foolish and wicked
29-32 Further, you should consider this, that if there is to be no resurrection what is the point of some of you being baptised for the dead by proxy? Why should you be baptised for dead bodies? And why should I live a life of such hourly danger? I assure you, by the certainty of Jesus Christ that we possess, that I face death every day of my life! And if, to use the popular expression, I have “fought with wild beasts” here in Ephesus, what is the good of an ordeal like that if there is no life after this one? ‘Let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we die!’
33-34 Don’t let yourselves be deceived. Talking about things that are not true is bound to be reflected in practical conduct. Come back to your senses, and don’t dabble in sinful doubts. Remember that there are men who have plenty to say but have no knowledge of God. You should be ashamed that I have to write like this at all!
Parallels in nature help us to grasp the truths of the resurrection
35-38 But perhaps someone will ask, “How is the resurrection achieved? With what sort of body do the dead arrive?” Now that is talking without using your minds! In your own experience you know that a seed does not germinate without itself “dying”. When you sow a seed you do not sow the “body” that will eventually be produced, but bare grain, of wheat, for example, or one of the other seeds. God gives the seed a “body” according to his laws—a different “body” to each kind of seed.
39 Then again, even in this world, all flesh is not identical. There is a difference in the flesh of human beings, animals, fish and birds.
40-41 There are bodies which exist in this world, and bodies which exist in heaven. These bodies are not, as it were, in competition; the splendour of an earthly body is quite a different thing from the splendour of a heavenly body. The sun, the moon and the stars all have their own particular splendour, while among the stars themselves there are different kinds of splendour.
42-44 These are illustrations here of the raising of the dead. The body is “sown” in corruption; it is raised beyond the reach of corruption. It is “sown” in dishonour; it is raised in splendour. It is sown in weakness; it is raised in power. It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. As there is a natural body so will there be a spiritual body.
45 It is written, moreover, that: ‘The first man Adam became a living being’.
46-49 So the last Adam is a life-giving Spirit. But we should notice that the order is “natural” first and then “spiritual”. The first man came out of the earth, a material creature. The second man came from Heaven and was the Lord himself. For the life of this world men are made like the material man; but for the life that is to come they are made like the one from Heaven. So that just as we have been made like the material pattern, so we shall be made like the Heavenly pattern.
50 For I assure you, my brothers, it is utterly impossible for flesh and blood to possess the kingdom of God. The transitory could never possess the everlasting.
The dead and the living will be fitted for immortality
51-53 Listen, and I will tell you a secret. We shall not all die, but suddenly, in the twinkling of an eye, every one of us will be changed as the trumpet sounds! The trumpet will sound and the dead shall be raised beyond the reach of corruption, and we who are still alive shall suddenly be utterly changed. For this perishable nature of ours must be wrapped in imperishability, these bodies which are mortal must be wrapped in immortality.
54 So when the perishable is lost in the imperishable, the mortal lost in the immortal, this saying will come true: ‘Death is swallowed up in victory’ ‘O death, where is your sting? O Hades, where is your victory?’
55-57 It is sin which gives death its power, and it is the Law which gives sin its strength. All thanks to God, then, who gives us the victory over these things through our Lord Jesus Christ!
58 And so brothers of mine, stand firm! Let nothing move you as you busy yourselves in the Lord’s work. Be sure that nothing you do for him is ever lost or ever wasted.
@The Learner: I’m going to be direct here: your mindless spamming (yes that is what it is), strawman arguments, and unwillingness to address actual points here being a MAJOR turn off. Even the devil can quote scripture. This is behavior is not true discipleship in any form, especially not for a Christian.
If this is all you got, I’m sorry: you’re just providing me with evidence against your faith.
If this is all you got, I’m sorry: you’re just providing me with evidence against your faith.
When our father Adam came into the garden of Eden, he came into it with a celestial body, and brought Eve, one of his wives, with him. He helped to make and organize this world. He is MICHAEL, the Archangel, the ANCIENT OF DAYS! about whom holy men have written and spoken – HE is our FATHER and our GOD, and the only God with whom WE have to do. Every man upon the earth, professing Christian or non-professing, must hear it, and will know it sooner or later... When the Virgin Mary conceived the child Jesus, the Father had begotten him in his own likeness. He was not begotten by the Holy Ghost. And who is the Father? He is the first of the human family.... Now, let all who may hear these doctrines, pause before they make light of them, or treat them with indifference, for they will prove their salvation or damnation.
Brigham Young
— Brigham Young
Second Mormon prophet
"Adam, Our Father and Our God"
April 9, 1852, General Conference, Salt Lake City Tabernacle
Journal of Discourses, Vol. 1, pp. 50-51
Me: another useless false prophet. real revelations from G_d do not contradict.
“And behold, he shall be born of Mary, at Jerusalem which is the land of our forefathers” (Alma 7:10).
Luke 2:4-6
Easy-to-Read Version
4 So Joseph left Nazareth, a town in Galilee, and went to the town of Bethlehem in Judea. It was known as the town of David. Joseph went there because he was from the family of David. 5 Joseph registered with Mary because she was engaged to marry him. (She was now pregnant.) 6 While Joseph and Mary were in Bethlehem, the time came for her to have the baby.
Me: the book of Mormon is just plain wrong, there is lots of manuscript evidence for this passage.,
Brigham Young
— Brigham Young
Second Mormon prophet
"Adam, Our Father and Our God"
April 9, 1852, General Conference, Salt Lake City Tabernacle
Journal of Discourses, Vol. 1, pp. 50-51
Me: another useless false prophet. real revelations from G_d do not contradict.
“And behold, he shall be born of Mary, at Jerusalem which is the land of our forefathers” (Alma 7:10).
Luke 2:4-6
Easy-to-Read Version
4 So Joseph left Nazareth, a town in Galilee, and went to the town of Bethlehem in Judea. It was known as the town of David. Joseph went there because he was from the family of David. 5 Joseph registered with Mary because she was engaged to marry him. (She was now pregnant.) 6 While Joseph and Mary were in Bethlehem, the time came for her to have the baby.
Me: the book of Mormon is just plain wrong, there is lots of manuscript evidence for this passage.,
Isaiah is well atested to in dead sea scrolls, LDS even contradicts Jewish Bible.
Isaiah 43:10
King James Version
10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the Lord, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.Friend, there are NOt Major difference concerning G_d among Baptist, Catholic, Orthodox and many other histroical Churches. There is major differences in LDS with truth teachings. They BCO agree with the rule of faith which I explained before. LDS is a false religion because it is way out of line with that Rule of Faith.
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