Purgatory - A Catholic's Understanding
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ScottA
Well-Known Member
That's what happened when Jesus spoke hard sayings. Most left following him.
Sounds like you just don't want to hear anything against your own misguided beliefs which you have poorly supported with passages that don't actually describe a Purgatory at all. Scripture can be like that. There is so much there, that if not spiritually discerned, one can find would-be support for anything they want to believe, true or not.
Do you realize your question was about YOU, YOU making an assessment, and the answer was about YOU?
ScottA
Well-Known Member
If you would like, I would be happy to go over each of the scriptures one at a time that you wrongly believe support a Purgatory.
There is always contention between Protestants who speak with Jesus’ Doctrine as the Basis and Support and Catholics who speak with their Basis hinged on Doctrines of men and their Basis and Support.
IOW, there is NO “common ground” as a basis for Discussion. The TWO have completely Different “sources” (Doctrines) from which they “support” their beliefs.
A man WHO, accepts the NEW Testimony given of Jesus, that men CAN BECOME SAVED (by Conversion, through Christ), while STILL physically ALIVE in their body...IS Saved...That SALVATION IS receiving the Baptism of the HOLY GHOST...which includes FIRE purification.
A man WHO, believes, but does NOT elect to become Sav-ED, Converted while ALIVE in their Body......WHO ALSO CONTINUES believing to the Time of their Physical Bodily DEATH.....they “SHALL BE SAVED”....Praying FOR them to become SAVED...is MOOT. It is Praying for what already God said WOULD COME TO PASS. Why Pray for, what God SAID He WILL DO, unless one thinks God is NOT TRUE to His WORD?
Men ARE baptized WITH the Holy Ghost and Fire....at the time...Before physical death (IF they accept Jesus’ offering)....or After their physical death...IF...they maintained belief to the time of their physical Death.
Catholics somehow have determined “Prayer” for departed souls, changes that souls “destiny”. It doesn’t. Prayers to God for a bodily alive man, IS taught. It doesn’t mean God will “change” them, but study shows, Prayers for an unbelieving, non-converted man, is responded to, BY God putting “something, someone” in that individuals path, that “give them consideration” to hear, learn, seek God. Every “individual” still has to Choose for himself.
Purgatory in Basic Understanding IS:
1 : an intermediate state after death for expiatory purification specifically : a place or state of punishment wherein according to Roman Catholic doctrine the souls of those who die in God's grace may make satisfaction for past sins and so become fit for heaven.
2 : a place or state of temporary suffering or misery.
Scripture gives ZERO indication that “departed souls of the Dead” IN Gods Grace “suffer” for “Past Sins”.
Clearly, “Departed souls of the Dead”, IN Gods Grace, WERE IN a place of “Comfort” WITH Abraham’s departed soul IN HELL, until” Jesus’ arrived, was bodily killed, his soul went to hell, his soul left hell, his soul returned to his body, his body returned to Heaven.....After Jesus’ Being First...all saved souls, departed out of their dead body, goes to Heaven.
Why are Catholics praying for departed souls....who are IN Heaven WITH God? Praying God Keeps His Word? He already has!
Purgatory is a funky teaching, and their explaining vague.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Wow. Do YOU realize I was making an analogy to the Scripture verse that says people will be judged/rewarded by their works?
The whole idea of God knowing our hearts is besides 2 points: (1), the verse about being judged based on our works; and (2). that we are saved by grace not what is in our hearts?
No need to continue hashing with you. I responded to YOUR question ABOUT YOU assessing men. Period.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Yea, lest you see how one truth connects to another truth! How we judge is in some ways the same as God judges - by the actions of others.
God Judges on Absolute Truth, as He is all-knowing.
Men (are supposed) to Judge Rightly, according to what they are assured (to the best of their knowledge) that which is True.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
So say you apart from the verse in question, which explicitly says God judges the works of people.
What is your point of carrying on?
Your question I responded to was about you making a judgement.
God Judges many things....IF one heartfully believes, IF a mans works glorified Him, If a mans name is to be blotted out, etc.
What is your point?
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
I’ve already answered that several times now. You have a doctrine that supersedes God’s Word.
In the verse in question, God says he’ll judge/reward people’s works. What is your point of carrying on?
Is that so? Why don’t you quote “inmy words” my “supposed” doctrine that supersedes Gods Word...
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
See below.
Scripture says judgment will be based on man’s work.
You’ve made so many posts to divert from this it’s hard to keep count but the post above relies on ‘many things’ as a means to deny God judges based on man’s works.
That is not what that passage says at all. It is about the judgment of works done by Christians. Not the judgment of Christians, since "there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus".
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
A distinction without a difference. All I said was judgment/rewards of works is what Scripture says in the verse.
Taken took the thread down a long diversion. But to your point, the idea of judging/rewarding a man’s works but not the man has no application.
Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
So six long posts to explain what the Bible does very simply.
Sin came to humankind through the actions of our earthly progenitor, being led into sin by temptation, resulting in all his children inheriting that defect of sin. (Romans 5:12)
God sends Jesus to pay a ransom for our release from this debt by cancelling it....offering a 'sinless life for a sinless life'. (Deuteronomy 19:21) Done and dusted. We either qualify for it to apply to us by our adherence to Christ's teachings....or we don't. It requires more than mere belief. (James 2:19)
God remembers that we cannot be holy like he is, so he appoints a "mediator" to intercede for us so that our prayers can still come before our God. (1 Timothy 2:5-6) A God who loved us so much, that he sent his precious son to die for us.....he planned this rescue mission for Adam's children right then and there in the Garden of Eden. (Genesis 3:15 John 3:16)
Jesus comes from heaven and is miraculously born as sinless human, and at the age of 30, embarks on his mission to save those who listen and respond to his teachings.
His sacrificial death cancels our sin and opens the way for God to forgive us if we exercise faith in his blood.
The majority of humans will never go to heaven because we were never designed to live there in the first place.
God chose some from among mankind to assist Jesus in helping us to regain all that we lost due to Adam's sin. (Revelation 20:6) It will take 1,000 years for us to get there.
Most will gain everlasting life in a restored earthly paradise by resurrection, because this is where God intended for us to enjoy life and his creation all along....with no sickness, no aging and no death to spoil eternity. (Revelation 21:3-4)
There is no "heaven/hell" scenario as opposite destinations ever mentioned in the scriptures....all God ever offered us was obedience and life...or disobedience and death.....that's it. (Deuteronomy 30:19) Death is the cessation of life, not a continuation of it. (Ecclesiastes 9:5, 10) The only ones promised heaven are there by God's choosing and they have a very important role to play there.
There is no purgatory ever mentioned in the scriptures.....because there is no such thing as an immortal soul. With no soul departing from the body at death, resurrection is the simple solution. (John 5:28-29)
Like Lazarus, Jesus said that he was "sleeping" and he went and woke him up. That is resurrection. (John 11:11-15)
Simple....not complicated at all.
Sin came to humankind through the actions of our earthly progenitor, being led into sin by temptation, resulting in all his children inheriting that defect of sin. (Romans 5:12)
God sends Jesus to pay a ransom for our release from this debt by cancelling it....offering a 'sinless life for a sinless life'. (Deuteronomy 19:21) Done and dusted. We either qualify for it to apply to us by our adherence to Christ's teachings....or we don't. It requires more than mere belief. (James 2:19)
God remembers that we cannot be holy like he is, so he appoints a "mediator" to intercede for us so that our prayers can still come before our God. (1 Timothy 2:5-6) A God who loved us so much, that he sent his precious son to die for us.....he planned this rescue mission for Adam's children right then and there in the Garden of Eden. (Genesis 3:15 John 3:16)
Jesus comes from heaven and is miraculously born as sinless human, and at the age of 30, embarks on his mission to save those who listen and respond to his teachings.
His sacrificial death cancels our sin and opens the way for God to forgive us if we exercise faith in his blood.
The majority of humans will never go to heaven because we were never designed to live there in the first place.
God chose some from among mankind to assist Jesus in helping us to regain all that we lost due to Adam's sin. (Revelation 20:6) It will take 1,000 years for us to get there.
Most will gain everlasting life in a restored earthly paradise by resurrection, because this is where God intended for us to enjoy life and his creation all along....with no sickness, no aging and no death to spoil eternity. (Revelation 21:3-4)
There is no "heaven/hell" scenario as opposite destinations ever mentioned in the scriptures....all God ever offered us was obedience and life...or disobedience and death.....that's it. (Deuteronomy 30:19) Death is the cessation of life, not a continuation of it. (Ecclesiastes 9:5, 10) The only ones promised heaven are there by God's choosing and they have a very important role to play there.
There is no purgatory ever mentioned in the scriptures.....because there is no such thing as an immortal soul. With no soul departing from the body at death, resurrection is the simple solution. (John 5:28-29)
Like Lazarus, Jesus said that he was "sleeping" and he went and woke him up. That is resurrection. (John 11:11-15)
Simple....not complicated at all.
FALSE.
Post # 30 Wrangler -
Next quarter, I have to give annual reviews of my engineering team. How do you propose I evaluate them OTHER than their actions, I,e., works? LOL
Notice YOUR QUESTION?
I CLEARLY responded to YOUR QUESTION.
No, I ignored your STATEMENT and responded to YOUR QUESTION.
You wanted a response to your STATEMENT.
I said God Judges “many things.”
Your response...
Post # 52 Wrangler - claim; “You have a doctrine that supersedes Gods word”.
Conclusion....You do not know the difference between you making a STATEMENT and you asking A QUESTION. And to make up for your lack of knowing the difference, You make a false claim regarding my “supposed” doctrine...”God Judges many things”...as you claiming that is me, “superseding Gods Word”.
WEIRD. IGNORE.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
While ignoring how my question relates to the verse of God judging by man’s works also.
So?
I have no requirement to respond to everything or anything you are wondering about.
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