Purgatory and Praying to Saints in Catholic Biblical Perspective

[BreadOfLife]

fifty thousand were burned alive at the Spanish inquisitions alone. im not so sure its a fairy tale.

Got some documented proof for that idiotic claim?

 

[BreadOfLife]

you notice how before rome "adopted" the faith, they persecuted Christians. and after they adopted, they continued doing the exact same thing.

Still having trouble differentiating pagan Rome and the Church?

Keep reading your history - you'll get there . . .

 

[jaybird]

so.....I see you like to skip through the centuries, at will

Are you really as naive as you sound? You do realize that people of every religious ilk seemed to have reveled in torturing and murdering their fellow humans throughout the history of Christianity, right?

This is not Roman, it is human....

i must have skipped through the part where Jesus and the 12 did that. so where did Jesus put someone to death because they refused to believe Him?

 

[jaybird]

Got some documented proof for that idiotic claim?

"1492) estimated that 2000 people were burned at the stake between 1478 and 1490. Estimates range from 30,000 to 50,000 burnt at the stake (alive or not) at the behest of the Spanish Inquisition during its 300 years of activity have previously been given and are still to be found in popular books."

Death by burning - Wikipedia

i agree, i dont believe this as well. multiply those numbers by three would be much more accurate.

interesting that neither Judaism nor Jesus and the 12 (also Jewish) didnt do this. this was something new, a deviation from Jesus and the 12.

 

[jaybird]

Still having trouble differentiating pagan Rome and the Church?

Keep reading your history - you'll get there . . .

please explain the difference between a man named bob that kills Christians, and a man named dave that kills Christians?

 

[aspen]

i must have skipped through the part where Jesus and the 12 did that. so where did Jesus put someone to death because they refused to believe Him?

well, Judas sold his Savior to the Romans and Peter betrayed Him - looks like we have been repeating their mistakes ever since. Once again, I am sorry there has not been some 'pure', 'sin free' church hiding in the shadows, for you to associated with, while you point fingers at organized religion. This is a myth perpetuated by everyone looking to break away from Christ's church.

The fact is, every time a human breaks away from the church, he takes a human with him and along comes the very evil he is trying escape.

No, Christ did not put anyone to death for not believing in Him, but you can bet the early church blamed the Jews for murdering their Savior because they could not face the fact that they were culpable. It was already beginning in the gospels

 

[jaybird]

well, Judas sold his Savior to the Romans and Peter betrayed Him - looks like we have been repeating their mistakes ever since. Once again, I am sorry there has not been some 'pure', 'sin free' church hiding in the shadows, for you to associated with, while you point fingers at organized religion. This is a myth perpetuated by everyone looking to break away from Christ's church.

so we should be proud of all those that were burned alive, tortured and persecuted?
im sorry, but when i see all that bloodshed, destruction, and the church itself used as a stepping stone to getting rich, these things make me ashamed, they bother me, im not gonna throw my hands up and say it is what it is so ohh well.

The fact is, every time a human breaks away from the church, he takes a human with him and along comes the very evil he is trying escape.

did Jesus agree with mainstream Judaism of His day?

No, Christ did not put anyone to death for not believing in Him, but you can bet the early church blamed the Jews for murdering their Savior because they could not face the fact that they were culpable. It was already beginning in the gospels

rome blamed the Jews to shift the blame from themselves. Jesus, the 12, John B, st Paul were all Jewish along with the multitude of believers that followed, does it make sense that these "Jews" would think "the Jews" killed Jesus? "the Jews" is a non Jew phrase.

 

[aspen]

so we should be proud of all those that were burned alive, tortured and persecuted?
im sorry, but when i see all that bloodshed, destruction, and the church itself used as a stepping stone to getting rich, these things make me ashamed, they bother me, im not gonna throw my hands up and say it is what it is so ohh well.

did Jesus agree with mainstream Judaism of His day?

rome blamed the Jews to shift the blame from themselves. Jesus, the 12, John B, st Paul were all Jewish along with the multitude of believers that followed, does it make sense that these "Jews" would think "the Jews" killed Jesus? "the Jews" is a non Jew phrase.

You sound like Adam. How long are you going to blame Eve for eating the fruit and tempting you? If you claim to be Christian, you need to take responsibility for the sinful tendencies within your own heart - the history of the church is a mirror into our soul. And if you believe you are unable to fail in the same way, woe unto you, your pride is leading you astray. But, don't worry, you are far from alone! We've been trying to hide with fig leaves from the beginning.

Thankfully, Jesus uses mirrors to show us our own hearts; in fact, the only reason we can recognize personal sin within our brothers and sisters / the church, is so we can repent from our own sin. To follow Christ, is to allow the Great Physician to heal us, which He does within His Body / The Church, the true Hospital.

We shouldn't judge clowns for hanging out at a circus or sick people from filling a hospital / church.

 

[jaybird]

You sound like Adam. How long are you going to blame Eve for eating the fruit and tempting you? If you claim to be Christian, you need to take responsibility for the sinful tendencies within your own heart - the history of the church is a mirror into our soul. And if you believe you are unable to fail in the same way, woe unto you, your pride is leading you astray. But, don't worry, you are far from alone! We've been trying to hide with fig leaves from the beginning.

Thankfully, Jesus uses mirrors to show us our own hearts; in fact, the only reason we can recognize personal sin within our brothers and sisters / the church, is so we can repent from our own sin. To follow Christ, is to allow the Great Physician to heal us, which He does within His Body / The Church, the true Hospital.

We shouldn't judge clowns for hanging out at a circus or sick people from filling a hospital / church.

i have no idea what your going on about with clowns at a circus and all the rest.

if rome killed Jesus, then destroys the first church, then rome proclaims to the world, they are the real church, does that not raise a red flag to you?

 

[aspen]

i have no idea what your going on about with clowns at a circus and all the rest.

if rome killed Jesus, then destroys the first church, then rome proclaims to the world, they are the real church, does that not raise a red flag to you?

1. My last post is clear.
2. The Bible tells us that Jesus laid down His life - Rome didn't have the power to kill Him
3. The Great Apostasy is a myth - the persecuted Catholic Church was never destroyed.
4. There is no evidence the persecuted and legal forms of the Catholic Church were different churches.

 

[farouk]

In Hebrews 7.25 it is the Lord Jesus Who is vitally interceding for those He has redeemed.

 

[BreadOfLife]

please explain the difference between a man named bob that kills Christians, and a man named dave that kills Christians?

There's no difference between Bob nd Dave, Einstein - but there IS a difference between pagan Rome and the the Christian Church in Rome.

Does your mother support you - or does her bank support you?
Just because YOU live in her basement doesn't mean that he bank runs her household.

They would have evicted you LONG ago . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

"1492) estimated that 2000 people were burned at the stake between 1478 and 1490. Estimates range from 30,000 to 50,000 burnt at the stake (alive or not) at the behest of the Spanish Inquisition during its 300 years of activity have previously been given and are still to be found in popular books."

Death by burning - Wikipedia

i agree, i dont believe this as well. multiply those numbers by three would be much more accurate.

interesting that neither Judaism nor Jesus and the 12 (also Jewish) didnt do this. this was something new, a deviation from Jesus and the 12.

Wikipedia – how cute. You DO understand that Wikipedia can be edited by anybody – don’t you?

Now, here’s how REAL grown-ups do REAL research . . .

First of all – MOST Protestants, and by process of elimination, posters on sources like “Wikipedia” – get their “facts” about the Inquisitions from TWO major sources: Henry C. Lea (1825–1909) and G. G. Coulton (1858–1947). BOTH of these men were virulent anti-Catholics – first and foremost.

SOME Protestant sources claim that as many as 95 MILLION people died. Of course, this is laughable, due to the fact that if you add this number to the number killed during the Plague – Europe would cease to exist.

SOME statistics show that up to 72,000 Catholics were murdered in England by Henry VIII alone. This doesn’t include the up to 40,000 killed by his daughter Elizabeth I. Are these accurate numbers? Maybe – maybe not.

So, the lesson here, sparky, is that when you base your “statistics” on flawed sources – you get ALL sorts of wacky numbers.
In other words, son – it’s time to grow up and move out of mommy’s basement . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

i have no idea what your going on about with clowns at a circus and all the rest.

if rome killed Jesus, then destroys the first church, then rome proclaims to the world, they are the real church, does that not raise a red flag to you?

Two different entities, junior.
Remember what I taught you about differentiating entities . . .

 

[jaybird]

1. My last post is clear.
2. The Bible tells us that Jesus laid down His life - Rome didn't have the power to kill Him
3. The Great Apostasy is a myth - the persecuted Catholic Church was never destroyed.
4. There is no evidence the persecuted and legal forms of the Catholic Church were different churches.

Jews dont crucify
the hundreds of thousands of people burned alive would say different

 

[jaybird]

There's no difference between Bob nd Dave, Einstein - but there IS a difference between pagan Rome and the the Christian Church in Rome.

Does your mother support you - or does her bank support you?
Just because YOU live in her basement doesn't mean that he bank runs her household.

They would have evicted you LONG ago . . .

pagan rome and "Christian" rome do the exact same thing, they kill Christians

 

[jaybird]

Wikipedia – how cute. You DO understand that Wikipedia can be edited by anybody – don’t you?

Now, here’s how REAL grown-ups do REAL research . . .

First of all – MOST Protestants, and by process of elimination, posters on sources like “Wikipedia” – get their “facts” about the Inquisitions from TWO major sources: Henry C. Lea (1825–1909) and G. G. Coulton (1858–1947). BOTH of these men were virulent anti-Catholics – first and foremost.

SOME Protestant sources claim that as many as 95 MILLION people died. Of course, this is laughable, due to the fact that if you add this number to the number killed during the Plague – Europe would cease to exist.

SOME statistics show that up to 72,000 Catholics were murdered in England by Henry VIII alone. This doesn’t include the up to 40,000 killed by his daughter Elizabeth I. Are these accurate numbers? Maybe – maybe not.

So, the lesson here, sparky, is that when you base your “statistics” on flawed sources – you get ALL sorts of wacky numbers.
In other words, son – it’s time to grow up and move out of mommy’s basement . . .

so it wasnt one million, it was just tens of thousands. well thats not so bad, only tens of thousands killed. lets have a party!

 

[jaybird]

Two different entities, junior.
Remember what I taught you about differentiating entities . . .

remember what i taught you if one monster wears two masks, its still the same monster. we know this was the same monster because it continued to kill Christians. remember how st Paul stopped killing, rome did not stop killing, same ole rome as always

 

[aspen]

Jews dont crucify
the hundreds of thousands of people burned alive would say different

Yeah, ok
Have a nice day

 

[BreadOfLife]

pagan rome and "Christian" rome do the exact same thing, they kill Christians

Forget everything I said about your previous posts.
THAT is the most moronic thing you've said so far.