Question about the M kingdom

[Philip James]

You do not admit they were atrocities. You claim it was the church ruling with a rod of Iron. hence you excused the atrocities of your church

You are the one equating 'ruling with a rod of iron' with atrocities.. I suggested no such thing,
unless you consider the punishment of evildoers an atrocity...

For rulers are not a cause of fear to good conduct, but to evil. Do you wish to have no fear of authority? Then do what is good and you will receive approval from it,

for it is a servant of God for your good. But if you do evil, be afraid, for it does not bear the sword without purpose; it is the servant of God to inflict wrath on the evildoer.

Peace!

 

[quietthinker]

a comment on 'ruling with a rod of iron'. Iron was the strongest metal known at the time....far stronger than bronze heretofore used. God's love is compared to the strength of Iron....the strongest force in the Universe. To interpret this text as meaning Jesus will rule as would a fascist is not only a misunderstanding, it misrepresents the Jesus who is the same yesterday, today and forever.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You are the one equating 'ruling with a rod of iron' with atrocities.. I suggested no such thing,
unless you consider the punishment of evildoers an atrocity...

For rulers are not a cause of fear to good conduct, but to evil. Do you wish to have no fear of authority? Then do what is good and you will receive approval from it,

for it is a servant of God for your good. But if you do evil, be afraid, for it does not bear the sword without purpose; it is the servant of God to inflict wrath on the evildoer.

Peace!

Murder is murder

you can excuse the many sins of your church as being done in the name of God all you want.

they will be punished by God for all they did.

again,

God told us to spread the word so people can be saved, not kill the heretic. (One who does not agree with us)

 

[Eternally Grateful]

a comment on 'ruling with a rod of iron'. Iron was the strongest metal known at the time....far stronger than bronze heretofore used. God's love is compared to the strength of Iron....the strongest force in the Universe. To interpret this text as meaning Jesus will rule as would a fascist is not only a misunderstanding, it misrepresents the Jesus who is the same yesterday, today and forever.

God is not going to stand for evil when he rules

that’s not fascism. Which makes you do what they want or else

what we have to understand is yes Gods love, but also his just judgment,

 

[Philip James]

Murder is murder

indeed. But not all killing is murder.

you can excuse the many sins of your church as being done in the name of God all you want.

why do you keep suggesting this? I have said no such thing..

they will be punished by God for all they did.

as are we all..

again,

God told us to spread the word so people can be saved, not kill the heretic. (One who does not agree with us)

Well the Christian nations of Europe certainly spread the Word all across he globe as they colonized it...

If it is illegal in my country to preach heresy (The teaching or expression of an opinion in the conscious knowledge that it is contradictory to the teachings of the Church formal heresy - Wiktionary ) and someone obstinately continues to do so, should they not incur the penalty attached to said activity?

Peace!

 

[Eternally Grateful]

indeed. But not all killing is murder.

indeed, but killing a person just because they do not believe as I do is murder

why do you keep suggesting this? I have said no such thing..

Your the one defending your church

as are we all..

I never murdered anyone for heresy or because they did not agree as I do,

Well the Christian nations of Europe certainly spread the Word all across he globe as they colonized it...

If it is illegal in my country to preach heresy (The teaching or expression of an opinion in the conscious knowledge that it is contradictory to the teachings of the Church formal heresy - Wiktionary ) and someone obstinately continues to do so, should they not incur the penalty attached to said activity?

Peace!

What gives your country the right to punish someone? Did God give that right? Did God tell the apostles to become rulers and punish people who did not agree with them? Did he not tell them to render to ceasar that which is Caesar’s?

the Roman Catholic Church and Protestant churches who took over nations and forced everyone to agree with them or be severely punished will answer for their sins, God never told the church to do this, if he wanted that he would have destroyed the Roman Empire and placed the apostles in charge,

he is patient now, willing no one should perish but all will come to truth, vengeance is mine says the lord, he will enact vengeance in his own due time, our goal is to be lights to the world, to draw lost sinners to him, not demand they obey us or suffer the consequences,

doing that makes us no better than the jews of the OT, Islam, or any other heathen nation who sins in the name of God to get their way

 

[theefaith]

Murder is murder

you can excuse the many sins of your church as being done in the name of God all you want.

they will be punished by God for all they did.

again,

God told us to spread the word so people can be saved, not kill the heretic. (One who does not agree with us)

murder really? The state has the duty to execute justice!

 

[quietthinker]

God is not going to stand for evil when he rules

that’s not fascism. Which makes you do what they want or else

what we have to understand is yes Gods love, but also his just judgment,

Textual misunderstandings are generated because one's paradigm is faulty. A faulty paradigm attempts to shoehorn scripture into it....it ends as an inconsistent picture.

Jesus, the same yesterday, today and tomorrow....this is the reality. Allow it to colour your consciousness. If the imagined scenario doesn't fit this, it is in error.

To the point.....there will be no wicked nations on the earth when Jesus rules.
Your faulty eschatological interpretation allows for wicked nations to be on the earth ....your eschatology is in error, subsequently your understanding of the text in question (rule with a rod of iron) is interpreted incorrectly to mean, rule by force. This is not how Jesus operates.....if it were he would have called legions of angels to prevent his arrest and murder....he would have subdued the enemy there and then.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Textual misunderstandings are generated because one's paradigm is faulty. A faulty paradigm attempts to shoehorn scripture into it....it ends as an inconsistent picture.

Jesus, the same yesterday, today and tomorrow....this is the reality. Allow it to colour your consciousness. If the imagined scenario doesn't fit this, it is in error.

To the point.....there will be no wicked nations on the earth when Jesus rules.
Your faulty eschatological interpretation allows for wicked nations to be on the earth ....your eschatology is in error, subsequently your understanding of the text in question (rule with a rod of iron) is interpreted incorrectly to mean, rule by force. This is not how Jesus operates.....if it were he would have called legions of angels to prevent his arrest and murder....he would have subdued the enemy there and then.

Your right, there will not be any wicked nations, because God rules with a rod of iron.

we also know there will still be sin, God will withhold rain from nations who do not come worship the king once a year.

why would Jesus call legions of angels to prevent his arrest and murder? That was the purpose for which he came was to die for your and my sin.

if you want to discuss something, let’s discuss it, but please leave your tude outside our discussion

 

[quietthinker]

Your right, there will not be any wicked nations, because God rules with a rod of iron.

we also know there will still be sin, God will withhold rain from nations who do not come worship the king once a year.

why would Jesus call legions of angels to prevent his arrest and murder? That was the purpose for which he came was to die for your and my sin.

if you want to discuss something, let’s discuss it, but please leave your tude outside our discussion

do you understand what paradigm means?

 

[Philip James]

indeed, but killing a person just because they do not believe as I do is murder

But I say to you, whoever is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment, and whoever says to his brother, 'Raqa,' will be answerable to the Sanhedrin, and whoever says, 'You fool,' will be liable to fiery Gehenna.

Therefore, if you bring your gift to the altar, and there recall that your brother has anything against you,


leave your gift there at the altar, go first and be reconciled with your brother, and then come and offer your gift.

Your the one defending your church

I never murdered anyone for heresy or because they did not agree as I do,

And neither have I. Shall we hold the sins of our fathers against each other? against them? Shall we stand as their accusors?

What gives your country the right to punish someone?

Legally? The Crown has the right to legislate, adjudicate and enforce the law in Canada by the authority of the Queen of Canada,
Hey Majesty,
Queen Elizabeth II
Defender of the Faith (which title she took willingly when she gave her oath at her coronation.)
<God save the Queen!>

Did God give that right?

yes!

Let every person be subordinate to the higher authorities, for there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been established by God.


Therefore, whoever resists authority opposes what God has appointed, and those who oppose it will bring judgment upon themselves.

Did God tell the apostles to become rulers and punish people who did not agree with them?

Ananias and Sapphira?

Did he not tell them to render to ceasar that which is Caesar’s?

Indeed He did, and thus did the Church conquer the Roman Empire...

the Roman Catholic Church and Protestant churches who took over nations and forced everyone to agree with them or be severely punished will answer for their sins,

strife amongst brothers will certainly have its accounting...

God never told the church to do this,

do what? split into warring factions? No He certainly did not...

if he wanted that he would have destroyed the Roman Empire and placed the apostles in charge,

ummm, that's pretty much what happened..


Peace!

 

[Naomi25]

LoL!!! Yes, it's like being in a ring with a guy that no matter how hard you hit him he just won't go down, Lol. He keeps scrambling to his feet and coming at you again until you're like, "Jesus, dude. Would you please just stop getting up. I'm starting to wanna capitulate just looking at you," Lol.

It's like fighting Rocky. Eventually you realize you may have bitten off more than you can chew.

I don't know if that's flattering or sobering. The part of me that's "lets debate!" is probably flattered. The part of me that taps on the shoulder and goes 'psst, humility'...not so much. But still, taken in the spirit it was given, so
It's never really a bad thing to question yourself, I think. Lol. I've read bits of Daniel before, but in drilling down, I've come across a couple of passages that have thrown a few monkey wrenches into my own arguments. And I'm okay with that, because I don't much care if Amillennialism is the truth, you know, I just want to know what the truth is. If Amil is, great, if not, then I want what is. That is all. And every question I ask, I want to be in effort of digging that out. That's my goal, my quest. And I love it. Even if I get overly zealous at times. Sorry.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

do you understand what paradigm means?

It is a symbolic reference of how he will rule.

I just do not see it the way you see it

 

[Eternally Grateful]

But I say to you, whoever is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment, and whoever says to his brother, 'Raqa,' will be answerable to the Sanhedrin, and whoever says, 'You fool,' will be liable to fiery Gehenna.

Therefore, if you bring your gift to the altar, and there recall that your brother has anything against you,


leave your gift there at the altar, go first and be reconciled with your brother, and then come and offer your gift.

So this gives the church the right to execute someone because they do not believe Mary was a virgin? or they reject the eucharistic sacrifice?

And neither have I. Shall we hold the sins of our fathers against each other? against them? Shall we stand as their accusors?

So are you now admitting the atrocities of the roman church for well over a thousand years.

Legally? The Crown has the right to legislate, adjudicate and enforce the law in Canada by the authority of the Queen of Canada,
Hey Majesty,
Queen Elizabeth II
Defender of the Faith (which title she took willingly when she gave her oath at her coronation.)
<God save the Queen!>

Yes I agree.

But when they do it in the name of God and the church. thats where there is an issue

yes!

Let every person be subordinate to the higher authorities, for there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been established by God.

Therefore, whoever resists authority opposes what God has appointed, and those who oppose it will bring judgment upon themselves.

Again, This gives men the right to execute people because they disagree with the virginity of Mary, The eucharist. And the sacramental system of salvation?

Ananias and Sapphira?

These people lied. This did not disagree with the church. And God took their life. Not the government.

[/quote]Indeed He did, and thus did the Church conquer the Roman Empire...[/quote]
lol. Actually the roman empire conquered the church. the roman empire fell for the same reason the United States will fall. They became divided. again, you need to restudy history. Not from a catholic view.

strife amongst brothers will certainly have its accounting...

Strife is the least of their worries. Their murders in the name of God is there greatest sin.

do what? split into warring factions? No He certainly did not...

He never told them to go to war period.

ummm, that's pretty much what happened..

Nope. Again you give to much credit where no credit has been earned.


[/quote]
Peace![/QUOTE]
Peace? Thats what God wanted for his people. Sadly your church never heeded the call.

 

[theefaith]

So this gives the church the right to execute someone because they do not believe Mary was a virgin? or they reject the eucharistic sacrifice?




So are you now admitting the atrocities of the roman church for well over a thousand years.


Yes I agree.

But when they do it in the name of God and the church. thats where there is an issue


Again, This gives men the right to execute people because they disagree with the virginity of Mary, The eucharist. And the sacramental system of salvation?


These people lied. This did not disagree with the church. And God took their life. Not the government.

Indeed He did, and thus did the Church conquer the Roman Empire...[/quote]
lol. Actually the roman empire conquered the church. the roman empire fell for the same reason the United States will fall. They became divided. again, you need to restudy history. Not from a catholic view.


Strife is the least of their worries. Their murders in the name of God is there greatest sin.


He never told them to go to war period.



Nope. Again you give to much credit where no credit has been earned.


[/quote]
Peace![/QUOTE]
Peace? Thats what God wanted for his people. Sadly your church never heeded the call.[/QUOTE]

salvation of souls depends on the truth, all error must be combated
Heresy is treason against God and treason is an evil punishable by death

 

[theefaith]

What did Elijah do to the 400 false prophets of Baal? Killed every single one
And when God showed Jeremias that they were worshipping the sun in His temple? Even those who were not grieved by this outrage were to be punished

what about the Jews who killed Christ?

Matt 21:37 But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son.

38 But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance.

39 And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him.

40 When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen?

And they lost the kingdom

43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

44 And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.

45 And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them.

how more deserving of death are those who deny Christ and His church and His revelation!!!

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Indeed He did, and thus did the Church conquer the Roman Empire...
lol. Actually the roman empire conquered the church. the roman empire fell for the same reason the United States will fall. They became divided. again, you need to restudy history. Not from a catholic view.


Strife is the least of their worries. Their murders in the name of God is there greatest sin.


He never told them to go to war period.



Nope. Again you give to much credit where no credit has been earned.



Peace!
Peace? Thats what God wanted for his people. Sadly your church never heeded the call.

salvation of souls depends on the truth, all error must be combated
Heresy is treason against God and treason is an evil punishable by death

Please show me in the NT where God commanded the apostles to kill heretics..

 

[theefaith]

Please show me in the NT where God commanded the apostles to kill heretics..

he does not the church has the duty to safeguard the sacred deposit of faith and the faithful from all scandal and error

the state has the duty to execute justice

Romans 13:4
For he is the minister of God to thee forgood. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

 

[theefaith]

The Roman Empire conquered the church???

impossible!

matt16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

You say they did prevail???

the kingdom God set up conquered the pagan Roman empire dan 2:44

the church is eternal Lk 1:32-33

 

[Eternally Grateful]

The Roman Empire conquered the church???

impossible!

matt16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

You say they did prevail???

the kingdom God set up conquered the pagan Roman empire dan 2:44

the church is eternal Lk 1:32-33

Yeah they did

When they took it over, Made it what they wanted it to be. And enforced its beliefs with their military might.