Question no Protestant can answer

[JunChosen]

Universal (Catholic)
World universal

Lk 2:10 And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people. ( catholic universal)

Lk 2:31 prepared before the face of all (catholic) people

Jn 1:29 lamb of God who takes way the sins of the world

Jn 3:16 for God so loved the world

1 Jn 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Lk 2: 10 And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people.

11 For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord. (All people universal)

NOT even close! The Scripture verses you've offered does not pertain to John 3:16 at all. You are in dire need of the Holy Spirit to guide you and expound all things that are spiritual.

For instance, you quoted 1 Jn. 2:2 1:

"And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world."

The above verse merely means that in all of the world Jesus is the ONLY Savior and none other! Imagine if He was not, there would no one be in hell yet we know that hell will heavily be populated!

Try again. Expound John 3:16.

Thank you

 

[theefaith]

NOT even close! The Scripture verses you've offered does not pertain to John 3:16 at all. You are in dire need of the Holy Spirit to guide you and expound all things that are spiritual.

For instance, you quoted 1 Jn. 2:2 1:

"And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world."

The above verse merely means that in all of the world Jesus is the ONLY Savior and none other! Imagine if He was not, there would no one be in hell yet we know that hell will heavily be populated!

Try again. Expound John 3:16.

Thank you

the new covenant church must be catholic
Universal
All included if they accept Christ

 

[BreadOfLife]

Like I said, a human invention untied to Scripture. See 1 Corinthians 11:3.

WRONG.

John 16:12-15
“I have much more to tell you, but you cannot bear it now.
But when he comes, the Spirit of truth, he will guide you to ALL truth. He will not speak on his own, but he will speak what he hears, and will declare to YOU the things that are coming.
He will glorify me, because he will TAKE from what is MINE and declare it to YOU.
EVERYTHING that the Father has is MINE; for this reason I told you that he will TAKE from what is MINE and declare it to YOU.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

and there are many they cannot answer



Philip preached Jesus! How does the eunuch know about baptism???????????????????????



explain acts 8 then

35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.

36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?

37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.

39 And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.

why the same doctrine? Faith and baptism
Why rejoice? Faith and baptism make him a Christian
Member of Christ in the new covenant
1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Philip preached Jesus! How does the eunuch know about baptism????

Notice that Philip asked IF the eunuch believed in his heart in Jesus, then he could demonstrate symbolically the washing of sins in water baptism. Jesus washes away our sins spiritually. We are baptized into JESUS. Baptism means to be emerced into, in essence saturated in Christ. We are baptized in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. It's spiritual not physical, water can do nothing. Water does not cause you to be born again spiritually. Water doesn't cleanse you from sins, the blood of Christ does when you believe. It is ceremonial and symbolic and obedient to be water baptized. It is a public announcement, acknowledging to others that you want to be identified as a believer in Christ.
Did the thief in the cross next to Jesus get water baptized? No, but he went to Paradise on that day.
Are people given their lasts rights at death to receive Christ regardless of whether they have been water baptized or not? Yes.
Did John's water baptism save people?. No, it prepared them.,John baptized for the remission of sins - that did not happen yet. Jesus had to die first and raise from the dead. John was really preparing people to receive Christ when He would soon arrive. They knew the Messiah was coming, but they really didn't fully believe in Jesus yet until His ministry began. Then they listened to His truth and saw his miracles and believed. Even still, when He died they were confused, distraught. But when they saw Him, that elevated their belief to great heights. . They were baptized into Christ. They were now all prepared to receive the soiritual transformation if being born again When the Holy Spirit baptized them - not with water, with fire, spiritually. Pentecost had to come before they could be born again and filled with the Holy Spirit.

 

[theefaith]

Notice that Philip asked IF the eunuch believed in his heart in Jesus, then he could demonstrate symbolically the washing of sins in water baptism. Jesus washes away our sins spiritually. We are baptized into JESUS. Baptism means to be emerced into, in essence saturated in Christ. We are baptized in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. It's spiritual not physical, water can do nothing. Water does not cause you to be born again spiritually. Water doesn't cleanse you from sins, the blood of Christ does when you believe. It is ceremonial and symbolic and obedient to be water baptized. It is a public announcement, acknowledging to others that you want to be identified as a believer in Christ.
Did the thief in the cross next to Jesus get water baptized? No, but he went to Paradise on that day.
Are people given their lasts rights at death to receive Christ regardless of whether they have been water baptized or not? Yes.
Did John's water baptism save people?. No, it prepared them.,John baptized for the remission of sins - that did not happen yet. Jesus had to die first and raise from the dead. John was really preparing people to receive Christ when He would soon arrive. They knew the Messiah was coming, but they really didn't fully believe in Jesus yet until His ministry began. Then they listened to His truth and saw his miracles and believed. Even still, when He died they were confused, distraught. But when they saw Him, that elevated their belief to great heights. . They were baptized into Christ. They were now all prepared to receive the soiritual transformation if being born again When the Holy Spirit baptized them - not with water, with fire, spiritually. Pentecost had to come before they could be born again and filled with the Holy Spirit.

what then Christian baptism is meaningless

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

what then Christian baptism is meaningless

No! It is an act of obedience, when we are able to (unless we are in the last moments before death and cannot). It is a public declaration, we desire to be identified as a Christian among family and peers _ a confession _ a ceremony _ that you believe that Jesus died for your sins and rose on the third day and has washed away your sins. The water didn't do that, it's spiritual a spiritual washing and birth.
This is why Protestants believe that infant baptism is not a public declaration of their belief/ faith. They don't know God nor do they have faith. We actually have a ceremony for infants that includes everything but water baptism. It's a dedication of that child to the Lord, involving prayers from the Pastor and parents, that the child will be blessed, that God will guide and protect them in front of the whole congregation who prays along with them. That is meaningful. You are saying, Lord, this child is yours, guide him/her to be all that you purpose, to grow in the knowledge of You and be a reflection of your Light. The parents are prayed over to be godly and spiritually led to care for God's child that He created.
For Water Baptism, we feel that there is an age of accountability, when a child knows right from wrong, has learned about Christ, believes the story and then willingly makes a decision to get baptized. My daughter did at 9 years old. I was baptized as an infant, a Catholic. I had my Communion and Confirmation, but I did not understand, I did not know Christ. Back then it was all in Latin ... sit, stand, knell, recite, sit, stand, communion, confession ... I did not get it. Catechism did not sink in. It was not mine time. Not until I was 35 years old did I had a divine appointment with God and I got water baptized when I believed, when I understood, when I knew Jesus. It is special, I have a photo of being water baptized. But it is symbolic for Christ spiritually washing your sins away.

 

[theefaith]

No! It is an act of obedience, when we are able to (unless we are in the last moments before death and cannot). It is a public declaration, we desire to be identified as a Christian among family and peers _ a confession _ a ceremony _ that you believe that Jesus died for your sins and rose on the third day and has washed away your sins. The water didn't do that, it's spiritual a spiritual washing and birth.
This is why Protestants believe that infant baptism is not a public declaration of their belief/ faith. They don't know God nor do they have faith. We actually have a ceremony for infants that includes everything but water baptism. It's a dedication of that child to the Lord, involving prayers from the Pastor and parents, that the child will be blessed, that God will guide and protect them in front of the whole congregation who prays along with them. That is meaningful. You are saying, Lord, this child is yours, guide him/her to be all that you purpose, to grow in the knowledge of You and be a reflection of your Light. The parents are prayed over to be godly and spiritually led to care for God's child that He created.
For Water Baptism, we feel that there is an age of accountability, when a child knows right from wrong, has learned about Christ, believes the story and then willingly makes a decision to get baptized. My daughter did at 9 years old. I was baptized as an infant, a Catholic. I had my Communion and Confirmation, but I did not understand, I did not know Christ. Back then it was all in Latin ... sit, stand, knell, recite, sit, stand, communion, confession ... I did not get it. Catechism did not sink in. It was not mine time. Not until I was 35 years old did I had a divine appointment with God and I got water baptized when I believed, when I understood, when I knew Jesus. It is special, I have a photo of being water baptized. But it is symbolic for Christ spiritually washing your sins away.

no it’s real acts 22:16

 

[BreadOfLife]

No! It is an act of obedience, when we are able to (unless we are in the last moments before death and cannot). It is a public declaration, we desire to be identified as a Christian among family and peers _ a confession _ a ceremony _ that you believe that Jesus died for your sins and rose on the third day and has washed away your sins. The water didn't do that, it's spiritual a spiritual washing and birth.
This is why Protestants believe that infant baptism is not a public declaration of their belief/ faith. They don't know God nor do they have faith. We actually have a ceremony for infants that includes everything but water baptism. It's a dedication of that child to the Lord, involving prayers from the Pastor and parents, that the child will be blessed, that God will guide and protect them in front of the whole congregation who prays along with them. That is meaningful. You are saying, Lord, this child is yours, guide him/her to be all that you purpose, to grow in the knowledge of You and be a reflection of your Light. The parents are prayed over to be godly and spiritually led to care for God's child that He created.
For Water Baptism, we feel that there is an age of accountability, when a child knows right from wrong, has learned about Christ, believes the story and then willingly makes a decision to get baptized. My daughter did at 9 years old. I was baptized as an infant, a Catholic. I had my Communion and Confirmation, but I did not understand, I did not know Christ. Back then it was all in Latin ... sit, stand, knell, recite, sit, stand, communion, confession ... I did not get it. Catechism did not sink in. It was not mine time. Not until I was 35 years old did I had a divine appointment with God and I got water baptized when I believed, when I understood, when I knew Jesus. It is special, I have a photo of being water baptized. But it is symbolic for Christ spiritually washing your sins away.

First of all- if your avatar is an accurate picture of you - then you don't seem old enough to have made your sacraments within the confines of the Latin Mass - as the Ordinary form changed to the vernacular way back in the mid 1960's. So, unless you're about 70 years or older - you went to mass in the vernacular. And if you left when you were 35 because of the Latin - that would make you almost 100 years old.

Secondly, Baptism IS an act of obedience - but is is necessary for a salvation (John 3:5, Mark 16:16). However, there ARE those exceptions, like the Thief on the cross and others who were (are) willing, but unable to be Baptized - they receive what is referred to as Baptism of Desire.

Peter Baptized the entire household of Cornelius (Acts 10:1-49, 11:13-14), - and Paul the entire households of the Philippian Jailer (Acts 16:23-33) and Stephanas (1 Cor. 1:16). "Entire household have people of ALL ages, including children - of ALL ages.

This is why the Early Church taught and practiced Infant Baptism - stating that it was handed down to them by the APOSTLES themselves . . .

Irenaeus
He [Jesus] came to save all through himself – all, I say, who through him are reborn in God; INFANTS, AND CHILDREN, and youths, and old men. Therefore he passed through every age, becoming an INFANT for INFANTS, sanctifying infants; a child for children, sanctifying those who are of that age . . . [so that] he might be the perfect teacher in all things, perfect not only in respect to the setting forth of truth, perfect also in respect to relative age (Against Heresies 2:22:4 [A.D. 189]).

Hippolytus
Where there is no scarcity of water the stream shall flow through the baptismal font or pour into it from above; but if water is scarce, whether on a constant condition or on occasion, then use whatever water is available. Let them remove their clothing. Baptize first the children, and if they can speak for themselves let them do so. Otherwise, let their parents or other relatives speak for them (The Apostolic Tradition 21:16 [A.D.215]).

Origen
THE CHURCH RECEIVED FROM THE APOSTLES THE TRADITION OF GIVING BAPTISM EVEN TO INFANTS. The apostles, to whom were committed the secrets of divine sacraments, knew there is in everyone innate strains of [original] sin, which must be washed away through water and the Spirit (Commentaries on Romans 5:9 [A.D. 248]).

Cyprian
As to what pertains to the case of INFANTS: You [Fidus] said that they ought not to be baptized within the second or third day after their birth, that the old law of circumcision must be taken into consideration, and that you did not think that one should be baptized and sanctified within the eighth day after his birth. In our council it seemed to us far otherwise. No one agreed to the course which you thought should be taken. Rather, we all judge that the mercy and grace of God ought to be denied to no man born" (Letters 64:2 [A.D. 253]).

Augustine
It is this one Spirit who makes it possible for an infant to be regenerated . . . when that INFANT is brought to baptism; and it is through this ONE SPIRIT that the INFANT so presented is REBORN. For it is not written, "Unless a man be born again by the will of his parents" or "by the faith of those presenting him or ministering to him," but, "Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit." The water, therefore, manifesting exteriorly the sacrament of grace, and the Spirit effecting interiorly the benefit of grace, both regenerate in one Christ that man who was generated in Adam (Letters 98:2 [A.D. 408]).

PS - WHERE is "Infant Dedication" on the pages of the NT??

 

[n2thelight]

Philip preached Jesus! How does the eunuch know about baptism????

Wasn't Christ baptized ?

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

First of all- if your avatar is an accurate picture of you - then you don't seem old enough to have made your sacraments within the confines of the Latin Mass - as the Ordinary form changed to the vernacular way back in the mid 1960's. So, unless you're about 70 years or older - you went to mass in the vernacular. And if you left when you were 35 because of the Latin - that would make you almost 100 years old.

Secondly, Baptism IS an act of obedience - but is is necessary for a salvation (John 3:5, Mark 16:16). However, there ARE those exceptions, like the Thief on the cross and others who were (are) willing, but unable to be Baptized - they receive what is referred to as Baptism of Desire.

Peter Baptized the entire household of Cornelius (Acts 10:1-49, 11:13-14), - and Paul the entire households of the Philippian Jailer (Acts 16:23-33) and Stephanas (1 Cor. 1:16). "Entire household have people of ALL ages, including children - of ALL ages.

This is why the Early Church taught and practiced Infant Baptism - stating that it was handed down to them by the APOSTLES themselves . . .

Doubting Thomas! Thank you for the complement I often receive - I look 15 years younger than I am. I was born in 1955. The Avatar picture was taken 4 years ago. I remember I started Catechism in the third grade. Because I was born in November, I was able to start Kindergarden at 4 years and 10 months old in Sept. 1959. So after a year or so I received the ceremonial rituals of Communion and Confirmation. Unfortunately, they were empty acts. I really wasn't communing with Jesus nor was I baptized by the Holy Spirit ( which is what confirmation is supposed to be. No, I received Jesus and was confirmed by the Holy Spirit in 1991. I was aware, the light went on, I knew God loves me and had been watching iver me all along. I knew that the events and people that came into my life were orchestrated by God to the very day of my divine appointment, I was confirmed in that day, not when I was a kid, not because I sat through many classes of Catechism, and participated in the sacraments.
Afterwards, I was water baptized. It was a public confession and acknowledgment of my faith, A SYMBOLIC CLEANSING OF MY SOUL (which happened spiritually months before I got dunked in the water). Does water (which is physical) cleanse your soul? No, our sins are washed by His blood spiritually.
"Since Jesus expected Nicodemus to understand this truth (Jn 3:10), it must have been something with which he was familiar. Water and Spirit often refer symbolically in the Old Testament to spiritual renewal and cleansing (cf. Nu 19:17–19; Isa. 4:4; 32:15; 44:3; 55:1; Joel 2:28–29; Zech. 13:1). In one of the most glorious passages in all of Scripture describing Israel’s restoration to the Lord by the new covenant, God said through Ezekiel, "Since Jesus expected Nicodemus to understand this truth (Jn 3:10), it must have been something with which he was familiar. Water and Spirit often refer symbolically in the Old Testament to spiritual renewal and cleansing (cf. Nu 19:17–19; Isa. 4:4; 32:15; 44:3; 55:1; Joel 2:28–29; Zech. 13:1). In one of the most glorious passages in all of Scripture describing Israel’s restoration to the Lord by the new covenant, God said through Ezekiel, "For I will take you from the nations, gather you from all the lands and bring you into your own land. Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols. Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will be careful to observe My ordinances. (Ezek. 36:24–27) It was surely this passage that Jesus had in mind, showing regeneration to be an Old Testament truth (cf. Dt. 30:6; Jer. 31:31–34; Ezek. 11:18–20 - see note above) with which Nicodemus would have been acquainted. Against this Old Testament backdrop, Christ’s point was unmistakable: Without the spiritual washing of the soul, a cleansing accomplished only by the Holy Spirit (Titus 3:5) through the Word of God (Eph. 5:26), no one can enter God’s kingdom." (MNTC-Jn) My statutes, and you will be careful to observe My ordinances. (Ezek. 36:24–27) It was surely this passage that Jesus had in mind, showing regeneration to be an Old Testament truth (cf. Dt. 30:6; Jer. 31:31–34; Ezek. 11:18–20 - see note above) with which Nicodemus would have been acquainted. Against this Old Testament backdrop, Christ’s point was unmistakable: Without the spiritual washing of the soul, a cleansing accomplished only by the Holy Spirit (Titus 3:5) through the Word of God (Eph. 5:26), no one can enter God’s kingdom." J. Macarthur

I will not persuade you of anything, you will remain where you are. You have faith and so do I.
I am not against Catholics as some are, I believe we are all brothers and sisters in Christ. Our faith isn't qualified by the accuracy of our interpretation of scripture. Our faith is demonstrated by the fruit that God has grown in us to produce. The Catholic Church carried the gospel for a long time and since the Reformation, so have we.
I had a wonderful aunt who was Catholic, actually mist of my aunt's and uncles were (on my father's side); since I am a Bruno, Italian and his parents were from Italy. I loved my family, they loved me. After I became a Christian, my wonderful loving aunt made a snide remark about me to my mom. She said, "I hope he's not one of those "Born Again Christians"!
Wow! I caught it, but let it go. You would think that after 70 years of practicing her religion and reading her Bible that she would have come across the conversation that Jesus had with Nicodemus?

 

[BreadOfLife]

Doubting Thomas! Thank you for the complement I often receive - I look 15 years younger than I am. I was born in 1955. The Avatar picture was taken 4 years ago. I remember I started Catechism in the third grade. Because I was born in November, I was able to start Kindergarden at 4 years and 10 months old in Sept. 1959. So after a year or so I received the ceremonial rituals of Communion and Confirmation. Unfortunately, they were empty acts. I really wasn't communing with Jesus nor was I baptized by the Holy Spirit ( which is what confirmation is supposed to be. No, I received Jesus and was confirmed by the Holy Spirit in 1991. I was aware, the light went on, I knew God loves me and had been watching iver me all along. I knew that the events and people that came into my life were orchestrated by God to the very day of my divine appointment, I was confirmed in that day, not when I was a kid, not because I sat through many classes of Catechism, and participated in the sacraments.
Afterwards, I was water baptized. It was a public confession and acknowledgment of my faith, A SYMBOLIC CLEANSING OF MY SOUL (which happened spiritually months before I got dunked in the water). Does water (which is physical) cleanse your soul? No, our sins are washed by His blood spiritually.
"Since Jesus expected Nicodemus to understand this truth (Jn 3:10), it must have been something with which he was familiar. Water and Spirit often refer symbolically in the Old Testament to spiritual renewal and cleansing (cf. Nu 19:17–19; Isa. 4:4; 32:15; 44:3; 55:1; Joel 2:28–29; Zech. 13:1). In one of the most glorious passages in all of Scripture describing Israel’s restoration to the Lord by the new covenant, God said through Ezekiel, "Since Jesus expected Nicodemus to understand this truth (Jn 3:10), it must have been something with which he was familiar. Water and Spirit often refer symbolically in the Old Testament to spiritual renewal and cleansing (cf. Nu 19:17–19; Isa. 4:4; 32:15; 44:3; 55:1; Joel 2:28–29; Zech. 13:1). In one of the most glorious passages in all of Scripture describing Israel’s restoration to the Lord by the new covenant, God said through Ezekiel, "For I will take you from the nations, gather you from all the lands and bring you into your own land. Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols. Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will be careful to observe My ordinances. (Ezek. 36:24–27) It was surely this passage that Jesus had in mind, showing regeneration to be an Old Testament truth (cf. Dt. 30:6; Jer. 31:31–34; Ezek. 11:18–20 - see note above) with which Nicodemus would have been acquainted. Against this Old Testament backdrop, Christ’s point was unmistakable: Without the spiritual washing of the soul, a cleansing accomplished only by the Holy Spirit (Titus 3:5) through the Word of God (Eph. 5:26), no one can enter God’s kingdom." (MNTC-Jn) My statutes, and you will be careful to observe My ordinances. (Ezek. 36:24–27) It was surely this passage that Jesus had in mind, showing regeneration to be an Old Testament truth (cf. Dt. 30:6; Jer. 31:31–34; Ezek. 11:18–20 - see note above) with which Nicodemus would have been acquainted. Against this Old Testament backdrop, Christ’s point was unmistakable: Without the spiritual washing of the soul, a cleansing accomplished only by the Holy Spirit (Titus 3:5) through the Word of God (Eph. 5:26), no one can enter God’s kingdom." J. Macarthur

I will not persuade you of anything, you wullbremain where you are. You have faith and so do I.
I am not against Catholics as some are, I believe we are all brothers and sisters in Christ. Our faith isn't qualified by the accuracy of our interpretation of scripture. Our faith is demonstrated by the fruit that God has grown in us to produce. The Catholic Church carried the gospel for a long time and since the Reformation, so have we.
I had a wonderful aunt who was Catholic, actually mist of my aunt's and uncles were (on my father's side); since I am a Bruno, Italian and his parents were from Italy. I loved my family, they loved me. After I became a Christian, my wonderful loving aunt made a snide remark about me to my mom. She said, "I hope he's not one of those "Born Again Christians"!
Wow! I caught it, but let it go. You would think that after 70 years of practicing her religion and reading her Bible that she would have come across the conversation that Jesus had with Nicodemus?

Just out of curiosity - were you a Catholic of the Roman/Latin Rite - or another Rite.
The reason I ask is because you say that you made you First Communion and Confirmation at around the same age as a small child.

Anyway - you already were a Christian when you were Baptized the first time.
The second time - you simply got wet.

Whereas water doesn't literally wash away our sins - it is the means that GOD Himself chose for us to be regenerated in Him (Ezek. 36:25-27) and to receive the gift of the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:38). Water is the MEANS - not the ENDS.

Finally - as to what your aunt said - the Catholic Church has always taught that we need to be born again, per John 3:5. I think your aunt was simply referring to the USE of the term by non Catholics as it pertains to spiritual rebirth.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Just out of curiosity - were you a Catholic of the Roman/Latin Rite - or another Rite.

ST. Ann's in
Bridgeport, CT. / Black Rock community.
I went to Black Rock grammar school and right next door was St. Ann's school and church. In 3rd grade we had the option of getting out of school for a period and walking next door or to the Protestant church 1/2 mile away. My brother and I chose the Catholic church, since half my family was Catholic. I did it just to get out of school, it was a choice, not pushed on us since my parents were not religious. But we had to also go on Saturdays for Catechism and of course Sunday's for church as well. Just that one year and at the end of the school year at 8 years old, I had my first communion. After two years I stopped going - I didn't get it. There was no relationship with Christ. I certainly was not confirmed spiritually nor born again.

Anyway - you already were a Christian when you were Baptized the first time.
The second time - you simply got wet.

I was intended to be a Christian before I was born, but my spiritual enlightenment and transformation happened 27 years later.

Finally - as to what your aunt said - the Catholic Church has always taught that we need to be born again, per John 3:5. I think your aunt was simply referring to the USE of the term by non Catholics as it pertains to spiritual rebirth.

No, it was just ignorance. I was told Catholics didn't read their Bibles that much - not like Prostestants do..I suppose that is why God had to interevene as He did by sending Martin Luther to teach them a few things ... and to this very day, you're still making the same mistakes ... well maybe not all of them, you don't still sell indulgences.

 

[Wrangler]

I'm just wondering if @theefaith feels after 24 pages he got his question answered?

 

[BreadOfLife]

ST. Ann's in
Bridgeport, CT. / Black Rock community.
I went to Black Rock grammar school and right next door was St. Ann's school and church. In 3rd grade we had the option of getting out of school for a period and walking next door or to the Protestant church 1/2 mile away. My brother and I chose the Catholic church, since half my family was Catholic. I did it just to get out of school, it was a choice, not pushed on us since my parents were not religious. But we had to also go on Saturdays for Catechism and of course Sunday's for church as well. Just that one year and at the end of the school year at 8 years old, I had my first communion. After two years I stopped going - I didn't get it. There was no relationship with Christ. I certainly was not confirmed spiritually nor born again.

I was intended to be a Christian before I was born, but my spiritual enlightenment and transformation happened 27 years later.

No, it was just ignorance. I was told Catholics didn't read their Bibles that much - not like Prostestants do..I suppose that is why God had to interevene as He did by sending Martin Luther to teach them a few things ... and to this very day, you're still making the same mistakes ... well maybe not all of them, you don't still sell indulgences.

Seems to me that you were simply misinformed and not taught well.

The raising of Christian children begins at HOME - and if your parents weren't involved - then it's no wonder why you didn't know what was going on. It was the exact opposite at my house growing up. My parents were VERY involved, Bible reading, Church-going Catholics.

You were "told" that Catholics don't read their Bibles - well you were told wrong. My mom raised us on the Word of God and made sure we learned more every week at Mass. Virtually the ENTIRE Bible is read aloud and preached on during the Liturgy of the Word in a given 3-year cycle in the Catholic Church.
Where were YOU? Where were your parents? Don't blame the Church because they failed you.

Also - the Church was never in the business of selling Indulgences. That was an ABUSE by men like Johann Tetzel in Luther's Germany that has grown into a gigantic anti-Catholic LIE over the centuries.

Finally - as to "no relationship with Christ" in the Catholic Church - I can't think of a more intimate relationship with Him as I pray to Him and receive Him body, blood, soul, and divinity each week at mass - and during the week when I can attend.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Seems to me that you were simply misinformed and not taught well.

It probably wasn't their teaching, It was me, I wasn't ready, wasn't interested.

The raising of Christian children begins at HOME - and if your parents weren't involved - then it's no wonder why you didn't know what was going on. It was the exact opposite at my house growing up. My parents were VERY involved, Bible reading, Church-going Catholics.

That is absolutely true, there was no parental influence at all.

You were "told" that Catholics don't read their Bibles - well you were told wrong. My mom raised us on the Word of God and made sure we learned more every week at Mass. Virtually the ENTIRE Bible is read aloud and preached on during the Liturgy of the Word in a given 3-year cycle in the Catholic Church.
Where were YOU? Where were your parents? Don't blame the Church because they failed you.

That is wonderful. I doubt that all Catholics are as hungry for the Word.

Also - the Church was never in the business of selling Indulgences. That was an ABUSE by men like Johann Tetzel in Luther's Germany that has grown into a gigantic anti-Catholic LIE over the centuries.

I do believe your position on that could challenged fervently - I dont care to. Listen, the Church has been responsible for some tragedies in the name of the Lord. Do not be naive. We are all sinners, that goes for Popes as well.The Crusades, the Inquisition ... if nothing else, pure hatred.

Finally - as to "no relationship with Christ" in the Catholic Church - I can't think of a more intimate relationship with Him as I pray to Him and receive Him body, blood, soul, and divinity each week at mass - and during the week when I can attend.

I was a boy. They did not test to see if I really understood the Word, they just pushed me through. They could not discern ifJesus was truly in my heart.
Oh well, you worship your way and I will mine and we'll see you behind the Pearly Gates.

 

[BreadOfLife]

It probably wasn't their teaching, It was me, I wasn't ready, wasn't interested.

That is absolutely true, there was no parental influence at all.

That is wonderful. I doubt that all Catholics are as hungry for the Word.

I do believe your position on that could challenged fervently - I dont care to. Listen, the Church has been responsible for some tragedies in the name of the Lord. Do not be naive. We are all sinners, that goes for Popes as well.The Crusades, the Inquisition ... if nothing else, pure hatred.

I was a boy. They did not test to see if I really understood the Word, they just pushed me through. They could not discern ifJesus was truly in my heart.
Oh well, you worship your way and I will mine and we'll see you behind the Pearly Gates.

I doubt that "ALL" people in any Protestant denomination are hungry for the Word, either.

And it's not up to someone else to see if THEY know if Jesus is in your heart. That's between YOU and Him.
Not sure about your comments on the Inquisitions or the Crusades - but it appears that you have been misinformed about a LOT of things.

Finally - I'm not being "naive" about some of the bad things that some bad people within the Church have done over the centuries.
There have been BAD people in every Protestant denomination as well - including murderers and child molesters.
Sin isn't "exclusive" to Catholics . . .

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

but it appears that you have been misinformed about a LOT of things.

Actually in 30 years, I haven't paid much attention to what is going on in the Catholic Church. I have however experienced a wonderful relationship with Jesus, the Holy Spirit dwelling in me and the Father, Whom I pray to. I was called, and I answered the call, both inwardly and outwardly. I was forgiven, cleansed, sanctified , justified by faith, and am awaiting the full consummation of our redemption.
I have witnesses the Grace, Love, Healing, Guidance and Power of God in my life and others. I have been taught by spirit filled theologians, but primarily the Holy Spirit as He give a discernment when I study my Bible. The Pope never has done anything for me in my life, nor does Mary or the Saints. I have direct access to God, and therefore no need for any other intermediary. I don't feel the need to pray to dead people to intercede for me for they can do nothing. I pray to the Father, my only spiritual Father and He answers my prayers. I don't need to repeat the same prayer over and over and over again - He knows what I need even before I pray. Actually we are supposed pray without ceasing, which is a continuous open line to God talking to Him about every decision, every problem, everyday and all day long. Not the same prayers all day. We don't talk to people that way repeating ourselves and I dont talk to God that way. We include Him in every part of our lives. And I am blessed for it.

I doubt that "ALL" people in any Protestant denomination are hungry for the Word, either.

Me too.

And it's not up to someone else to see if THEY know if Jesus is in your heart. That's between YOU and Him.

Now it is. Yet an 8-10 year old boy needed just a few minutes here and there of counsel - "Do you understand this? ... What does communion mean? ... Tell me what you believe, about Jesus?" I vaguely remember being tested. I must have failed because I had no clue -yet they pushed me through the ceremony - just like an infant when they get baptized, knows nothing, believes nothing.

Sin isn't "exclusive" to Catholics

You are defensive. I never said it was, in fact I did say we are all sinners!

 

[theefaith]

Wasn't Christ baptized ?

Why should he desire the salvation by baptism

 

[theefaith]

I'm just wondering if @theefaith feels after 24 pages he got his question answered?

No!

 

[theefaith]

Notice that Philip asked IF the eunuch believed in his heart in Jesus, then he could demonstrate symbolically the washing of sins in water baptism. Jesus washes away our sins spiritually. We are baptized into JESUS. Baptism means to be emerced into, in essence saturated in Christ. We are baptized in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. It's spiritual not physical, water can do nothing. Water does not cause you to be born again spiritually. Water doesn't cleanse you from sins, the blood of Christ does when you believe. It is ceremonial and symbolic and obedient to be water baptized. It is a public announcement, acknowledging to others that you want to be identified as a believer in Christ.
Did the thief in the cross next to Jesus get water baptized? No, but he went to Paradise on that day.
Are people given their lasts rights at death to receive Christ regardless of whether they have been water baptized or not? Yes.
Did John's water baptism save people?. No, it prepared them.,John baptized for the remission of sins - that did not happen yet. Jesus had to die first and raise from the dead. John was really preparing people to receive Christ when He would soon arrive. They knew the Messiah was coming, but they really didn't fully believe in Jesus yet until His ministry began. Then they listened to His truth and saw his miracles and believed. Even still, when He died they were confused, distraught. But when they saw Him, that elevated their belief to great heights. . They were baptized into Christ. They were now all prepared to receive the soiritual transformation if being born again When the Holy Spirit baptized them - not with water, with fire, spiritually. Pentecost had to come before they could be born again and filled with the Holy Spirit.

Can’t separate them it’s an entire Christian ritual faith and baptism Mk 16:16