Question no Protestant can answer

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theefaith

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Just because you don’t like the answer, doesn’t mean you did not get an answer.

Summarize the unanswered part of your question. This should be good.

you never answered a single scripture on the trinity either???
 

theefaith

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Yes. If the HS tells Jesus to go to the desert and Paul to the sea, both act according to divine guidance.

A question I’ve asked but got an answer to is how your view abandons the millions of people who come to Christ through the literally tens of thousands of Protestant sects? It is a False Alternative that these people would be brought to God through one corrupt denomination, aka the Catholic Church.
False there not in Christ,

Eph 1:22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,
23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

Heb 3:6 But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.

Ephesians 5:24
Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ...

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.


Christ and his church are one! Acts 9:4

Must be in the church the body to be United to Christ the head
 

BreadOfLife

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I am confident the HS does not consider major doctrines to be the same as you. And your reply totally side steps my question.
Not surprising. Most traditionalists would rather people not come to Christ if they don’t first embrace your IDOL, so called major doctrines.
Nope - I didn't "side step" anything.
I answered your question the Catholic position that properly Baptized Trinitarian Protestants are, in fact, fellow Christians - albeit, disobedient Christians.

How does that "side step" your question?
 

BreadOfLife

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You started it:
Sooooo, does that mean that you can't address the Scriptural evidence I presented in post #490 for Mary being the fulfillment of the OT type that was the Ark of the Covenant?
I do, just not the ability to see into hundreds of millions of people's heart's everyday, reading their deepest thoughts, desires and needs, since they are all not being specific about what they want after repeating empty Hail Marys. Mary must be a pretty good mind reader - Oh well - everybody is hailing her ... I guess she is seated at the left hand of God? I wonder, since you say she is the "mother" of God the Son, does that make her the Father's wife?
Mary doesn't NEED to be a "mind reader" - nor does any other saint in Heaven. They hear the petitions for prayer by the power of Almighty God because they have been made PERFECT in Christ (Rev. 21:27). EVERYTHING and EVERY power given in Heaven is from God - NOT the people themselves.
That's why Heb. 12:1 says of them:
Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great A CLOUD OF WITNESSES, let us also lay aside every weight, and sin which clings so closely, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us

A "witness" is someone who sees and hears - otherwise they're NOT a witness.
Again - YOUR faith is pretty sad if you don't believe that you will have incredible abilities in Heaven.
That requires omniscience. Knowing what is inside a billion hearts and minds and answering them everyday - I guess you really believe she has been elevated to something divine. Angels can't even read minds, not one person and you have Mary knowing what everyone is thinking and praying - THAT IS ABSURD! But only19 verses for Mary, it so sad they didn't mention this divine person anymore than that.
Ummmmm, NO - it's doesn't require omniscience to hear a FINITE number of prayers.
It requires omniscience to hear an INFINITE number.

There are those here on earth who can communicate wit SEVERAL people at once - and those who don't have that ability.
In Heaven - EVERYTHING is possible in the presence of Almighty God., because HE is omnipotent.

As I stated before - your faith is pathetic if you think He has limits . . .
Actually what were her real responsibilities? She gave birth, fed the baby, cooked, cleaned the house, made him clothes, told him stories. ? Sounds like a normal mom. What else? Oh, she lost him for three days - didn't realize He was missing. Apparently she didn't have those tremendous mind reading abilities before she got to heaven. They go back to Jerusalem to find him in the Temple and the 12 year old Jesus corrects his Mom because she didn't know that He was about His Father's business. She couldn't even read her own son's mind. I guess she got an upgrade, from zero mind reading abilities to knowing what the hecknevery single Hail Mary means. As used to say when Ibwas young, far out!
Time for a Bible lesson . . .

Mary's "responsibility" is foretold in God's prophecy in Genesis:
Gen. 3:15
And I will put enmity between thee and the WOMAN, and between thy seed and HER seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

The "Woman" is Mary - and HER seed is Jesus Christ, the Savior of the world.
THIS is why Jesus always refers to His mother as "Woman" in John's Gospel. Being a good Jew who lived the Law perfectly - He HONORED His mother with this ultimate title from God.

And you actually believe that Mary and Joseph "lost" Jesus - that this even was NOT preordained for our benefit??
Again - what a pathetic lack of faith . . .
I didn't say that. I just think Mary and everyone else is not aware of what is going on on earth. Heaven is a perfect environment, without sin and that means without a vision of sins going on down here or pain and suffering going on down here. Why would people in Heaven be exposed to all the evils on earth? That would be depressing don't you think? Every tear is wiped away, therefore, it stands to reason that there is nothing at all to cry about, be depressed over, dyer problems to help remedy, knowing about or seeing anyone else depressed. Heaven is all good, happy - no sadness. Why would God allow evil thoughts in heaven for people to be tormented with?
But you have Mary carrying the load of billions of souls pain and suffering. Do you think she would want that job even if she could handle it? She can't nor does she. This whole thing about Mary is a fabrication, based on misunderstanding, misinterpretations, turned into false doctrine and tradition. You have proven your lack of discernment.
The prayers are in the form of incense. Simce there are billikns, they are like tiny particles. Rhey give them to God- they dont knkw what is in them. Do you think they have special smell detectors built in to their nostrils so that as they breathe in the prayers and dicipher what they are praying? Cool. As they take a deep breath ... "Oh the Buffingtons need help with their daughter down there, Suzy's boyfriend dumped her and well she lost it .. she is on her 93rd Hail Mary- oh my!"
I will put my special request not to get those special incense detectors installed in my new nose - thank you very much.
Ummmmm, ONE more time . . .
Heb. 12:1
Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great A CLOUD OF WITNESSES, let us also lay aside every weight, and sin which clings so closely, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us


Did that finally sink in this time?
I agree with the top part intil you get to Mary ... who was on that council?.I know, that was the beginning of the Women's Lib movement. Theotokos? ERROR
Please explain to me, then how Jesus is God and was God in the womb - yet Mary DIDN'T carry God in her womb.
Explain to me why Elizabeth shouted out to Mary:
Luke 1:42-43
“Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb! And why is this granted to me that the MOTHER OF MY LORD should come to me?

STILL think Mary wasn't carrying God in her womb??
Your lack of faith is pathetic . . .
I TOLD YOU, SHE GAVE BIRTH TO A BABY. SHE WAS THE MOTHER OF A HUMAN. SHE HAS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH HIS SPIRIT - HE PRE-EXISTED BEFORE TIME. THERE IS NO MOTHER OF GOD. GOD IS SPIRIT, NOT CONFINED TO ANY PERSON, PLACE, THING OR TIME.

Listen, this is enough. It was interesting and fun dealing with absurdities for awhile. Take care.[/QUOTE]
You can run if you want - but until you can show me - from SCRIPTURE - that the baby Jesus is NOT God - then you LOSE this argument.

You can't have it both ways . . .
 

Ronald David Bruno

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and there are many they cannot answer



Philip preached Jesus! How does the eunuch know about baptism???????????????????????



explain acts 8 then

35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.

36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?

37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.

39 And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.

why the same doctrine? Faith and baptism
Why rejoice? Faith and baptism make him a Christian
Member of Christ in the new covenant
1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Philip preached Jesus! How does the eunuch know about baptism????
It's funny, coming from a Catholic, how within the very scripture of the OP, lies the qualifications of water baptism and the disqualification of infant baptism:
"And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?
And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. ACTS 8:36-37

Posing a question "no Protestant can answer" wasn't a trap for us, it was your own trap.
 
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Wrangler

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Nope - I didn't "side step" anything.
I answered your question the Catholic position that properly Baptized Trinitarian Protestants are, in fact, fellow Christians - albeit, disobedient Christians.

How does that "side step" your question?

Your ‘answer’ has nothing to do with my question.

A question I’ve asked but got an answer to is how your view abandons the millions of people who come to Christ through the literally tens of thousands of Protestant sects? It is a False Alternative that these people would be brought to God through one corrupt denomination, aka the Catholic Church.

Putting aside all your caustic, holier-than—thou criticism, which is a lot to set aside, it is almost AS IF you are implying there could be a hint of good with those rascally, disobedient Protestant groups you despise so much. Correct me if I am wrong.
 

theefaith

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It's funny, coming from a Catholic, how within the very scripture of the OP, lies the qualifications of water baptism and the disqualification of infant baptism:
"And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?
And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. ACTS 8:36-37

Posing a question "no Protestant can answer" wasn't a trap for us, it was your own trap.

The requirements for Christian baptism and entrance into the new covenant of grace are not requirements if there not possible
Where do you get the idea you can make your own faith and your own salvation? Not from the Bible
There is no personal Savior or personal covenants
Lk 2:10-11 Jude 1:3
 

BreadOfLife

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Your ‘answer’ has nothing to do with my question.
Ummmmmm, here s your "question" from post #495 is:
"A question I’ve asked but got an answer to is how your view abandons the millions of people who come to Christ through the literally tens of thousands of Protestant sects?"

I believe I answered this satisfactorily.
I stated that people DO come to Christ through the tens of thousands of Protestant sects - but they are disobedient for remaining splintered from His Body.
Putting aside all your caustic, holier-than—thou criticism, which is a lot to set aside, it is almost AS IF you are implying there could be a hint of good with those rascally, disobedient Protestant groups you despise so much. Correct me if I am wrong.
And there you go, lying again.

I don't "hate" Protestants - or anyone else. I hate LIES.
There is nothing "caustic" or "holier-than-thou" in speaking the truth. The problem lies with people - like YOU - who don't like the truth . . .

I am 1 of 13 siblings - 9 of which are Protestants, and I love them dearly.
MY problem with Protestantism is that you have to accept some pretty outrageous myths, doctrinal inventions and outright LIES in order to believe what you believe.
I also don't understand why a Baptized Christian would settle for a partial truth instead of the fullness of the Gospel.
 

BreadOfLife

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I am confident the HS does not consider major doctrines to be the same as you. And your reply totally side steps my question.
Not surprising. Most traditionalists would rather people not come to Christ if they don’t first embrace your IDOL, so called major doctrines.
And you would be WRONG about that.
These aren't MY opinions - but the judgement of Christ's Church, who He have COMPLETE earthly Authority.

- He stated that WHATEVER His Church declared on earth would also be declared in Heaven (Matt. 16:18-19, <arr. 18:15-18, John 20:21-23).
- He promised His Church that the Holy Spirit would guide her to ALL Truth (John 16:12-15).
- He stated in NO uncertain terms that His Church was His mouthpiece on earth (Luke 10:16).

As Jesus states in Luke 10:16 - since YOU have rejected the doctrines of His Church - you have rejected HIM and the ONE who sent Him.
Good luck with that . . .
 

Wrangler

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I believe I answered this satisfactorily.
I stated that people DO come to Christ through the tens of thousands of Protestant sects - but

OK. The but monkey got me and that is all I could hear.

So, while it is good that you do admit that people DO come to Christ through the many Protestant denominations, your BUT MONKEY stopped from answering my question.

How your view is to abandon these millions of people who come to Christ via Protestantism that Christ found a way you and yours did not?

I know you want to run right back to the BUT MONKEY but hang with me here a bit. Your rush to condemn them for being ‘disobedient’ skips over achieving the most important part of being a follower of Christ, the Great Commission, bringing millions to be saved in Christ!

How do you answer abandoning this body of Christ? (And jettison the BUT MONKEY BS).
 

BreadOfLife

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OK. The but monkey got me and that is all I could hear.

So, while it is good that you do admit that people DO come to Christ through the many Protestant denominations, your BUT MONKEY stopped from answering my question.

How your view is to abandon these millions of people who come to Christ via Protestantism that Christ found a way you and yours did not?

I know you want to run right back to the BUT MONKEY but hang with me here a bit. Your rush to condemn them for being ‘disobedient’ skips over achieving the most important part of being a follower of Christ, the Great Commission, bringing millions to be saved in Christ!

How do you answer abandoning this body of Christ? (And jettison the BUT MONKEY BS).
First of all - I have NO idea what you're talking about with your "But monkey" nonsense, but I digress . . .

As to your final statement in RED - I never "condemned" anybody. I'm not in the "condemning" business - that' GOD'S job.
What I do is point out facts. If Jesus states explicitly that His Church has COMPLETE earthly authority (Matt. 16:18-19, Matt. 18:15-18, Luke 10:16, John 16:12-15, John 20:21-23) - and that if people refuse to listen to His Church are refusing to listen to Him - then they are being disobedient.
I didn't say that - JESUS did (Luke 10:16).

YOU see the Church as an "man-made organization".
The BIBLE, however, defines the Church as follows:

- The Church is the Body of Christ and He is the Head (1 Cor. 12:12-31, Eph. 4:3-6, Col. 1:8).

- Jesus said that HE is the Light of the World (John 8:12).
Jesus also said that His Church is the Light of the world (Matt. 5:14).

- Jesus is Truth itself (John 14:6).

- The Church is the Pillar and Foundation of Truth (1 Tim. 3:15).

- Jesus promised His Church that the Holy Spirit would guide her to ALL Truth (John 16:12-15).

- Jesus told the leaders of His Church that WHATEVER they bound or loosed on earth would ALSO be bound and loosed in Heaven (Matt. 16:18-19, Matt. 18:15-18, John 20:21-23).

- The Church is the FULLNESS of Christ (Eph. 1:22-23).

- Jesus identifies His very SELF with His Church (Acts 9:4-5).

 

BreadOfLife

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Excellent topic for another thread. I hope you start one.
I don't start threads.
I'm only here to expose lies against the Catholic Church - and thee are PLENTY here . . .
 

Ronald David Bruno

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The requirements for Christian baptism and entrance into the new covenant of grace are not requirements if there not possible
Where do you get the idea you can make your own faith and your own salvation? Not from the Bible
There is no personal Savior or personal covenants
Lk 2:10-11 Jude 1:3
Your response is incoherent and scriptures not applicable.
Make your own faith ... salvation? What are you talking about. My comment was directed at the very scripture you presented which apparently just went over your head. The eunich had to first believe in his heart that Jesus died for our sins and rise on the third day. Infants can't make that claim now can they, which is why one should be at the age of accountability, knowing right from wrong and then knowing who Jesus is and what He did, before they get baptized. They need to be baptized in His name, immersed in Him in belief.
I gave you a scripture that qualifies a person to get water baptized and you don't like It, it doesn't work with your religion so you wiggle around it and say it isn't applicable when it isn't possible. That is the point. You are saying that since it is not possible for an infant to be believe, that being have to. My brother was baptized as an infant. He is now 67 and an atheist. He never believed. They pushed him through communion and confirmation too and that meant nothing. One has to believe to be saved ... so much for the infant baptism. I suppose you think because the Catholic Church baptized my brother, the Holy Spirit baptized him as well? Nope, he is lost.
You wiggle around the criminal on the cross next to Jesus who did not get water baptized. I guess it wasn't possible - you think? Jesus said to him, (because of his confession of faith in Him), "Today you will be in paradise". He didn't shout down to his disciple John and tell him to get a bucket of water to baptize this guy - before it's too late.
 

Wrangler

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And you would be WRONG about that.
These aren't MY opinions

They certainly are your opinions!

As Jesus states in Luke 10:16 - since YOU have rejected the doctrines of His Church - you have rejected HIM and the ONE who sent Him.
Good luck with that . . .

Jesus said nothing of his doctrines. From a modern translation:
Luke 10:16 The Voice

16 Listen, disciples: if people give you a hearing, they’re giving Me a hearing. If they reject you, they’re rejecting Me. And if they reject Me, they’re rejecting the One who sent Me. So—go now
 

Wrangler

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What I do is point out facts. If Jesus states explicitly that His Church has COMPLETE earthly authority (Matt. 16:18-19

You do have a God complex. Christ. Church. Not the same.

Christ has ALL authority.

The denomination you belong to has no authority. That you rely on Scripture that does not support your position in the least is hilarious.
 

BreadOfLife

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They certainly are your opinions!
No - and I already proved that with Scripture.
The fact that you reject the Scriptural evidence is on YOU . . .
Jesus said nothing of his doctrines. From a modern translation:
Luke 10:16 The Voice

16 Listen, disciples: if people give you a hearing, they’re giving Me a hearing. If they reject you, they’re rejecting Me. And if they reject Me, they’re rejecting the One who sent Me. So—go now
Aside from being a fairly idiotic interpretation of the text Luke 10:16 is FAR more binding than YOU are willing to admit.
 

BreadOfLife

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You do have a God complex. Christ. Church. Not the same.
Christ has ALL authority.

The denomination you belong to
has no authority. That you rely on Scripture that does not support your position in the least is hilarious.
WRONG on all three counts.
time for another Bible Lesson . . .

Jesus compared His very SELF with His Church (Acts 9:4-5).
STRIKE ONE.


Yes, Jesus has ALL Authority - but TRANSFERS that Authority onto His Church:
John 16:13-16

When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into ALL TRUTH, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come. He will glorify me, for he will take what is mine and declare it to you.
ALL THAT THE FATHER HAS IS MINE; THEREFORE I SAID THAT HE WILL TAKE WHAT IS MINE AND DECLARE IT TO YOU.

STRIKE TWO.


Finally - I don't belong to a "denomination". The Catholic Church is the Original Tree from which Protestantism splintered - and continues to splinter to the tune of tens of thousands of disjointed sects that ALL teach competing doctrines - yet ALL teach that they were "led" to this confusion by the Holy Spirit.
What a mess. . .

STRIKE THREE
- you're OUT.