Question on creation and judgement

[Lifelong_sinner]

The first man born of God was Jesus Christ.

wait….. what?????? God the Father did not create Jesus. He has always existed.

 

[Waiting on him]

wait….. what?????? God the Father did not create Jesus. He has always existed.

Are you denying Jesus was a man born of a woman?

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

Are you denying Jesus was a man born of a woman?

Jesus has ALWAYS existed. He is part of the Trinity. He is 100% God, 100% man. But theres never been a time where He didnt exist.

are you one of them unitarians??

 

[Taken]

wait….. what?????? God the Father did not create Jesus. He has always existed.

Yes Gods Word has always existed.

 

[Taken]

However it may have happened (that part is highly controversial), not all people were created by God. The Bible tells us as much, over and over.

Utterly False.

God IS the Creator and Maker of ALL of manKIND.
All of manKIND has FREEWILL to Believe as they Choose.
Men who REJECT God IS the Creator and Maker of ALL of manKIND, Reject Gods Truth.

No where IN SCRIPTURE does it ONCE (let alone over and over), teach that ANYONE other than God IS the Creator and Maker of manKIND.

 

[GEN2REV]

No manWoman comes spilling from the womb born of God. Even the very thought of this is nuts. ... The first man born of God was Jesus Christ.

Did you forget Adam? Who was he of? There wasn't anybody else for him to come from but God.

What about Jeremiah and John the Baptist? They had the Holy Spirit from the womb.

Jeremiah 1:5
Luke 1:15

Isaiah seems to indicate that TRUE Israel is of God from the womb.
Isaiah 44:21
Isaiah 49:15

Not everyone IS born of God.
Matthew 15:13

This brings us back around to the Wheat and the Tares.
Matthew 13:24-30, 36-40

 

[GEN2REV]

Utterly False.

God IS the Creator and Maker of ALL of manKIND.
All of manKIND has FREEWILL to Believe as they Choose.
Men who REJECT God IS the Creator and Maker of ALL of manKIND, Reject Gods Truth.

No where IN SCRIPTURE does it ONCE (let alone over and over), teach that ANYONE other than God IS the Creator and Maker of manKIND.

I guess you missed all the countless verses about being of the devil ...

...and John chapter 8 where Jesus tells the Pharisees and Sadducees to their face that their father is the devil, etc.

How do you reconcile your above statements with Genesis 3:15? The devil unequivocally has a seed (a lineage). God wasn't referring to those who would fall spiritually later in their life. He wouldn't have referred to it as seed. Seed is from the get-go. Seed is source.

 

[Taken]

I guess you missed all the countless verses about being of the devil ...

...and John chapter 8 where Jesus tells the Pharisees and Sadducees to their face that their father is the devil, etc.

How do you reconcile your above statements with Genesis 3:15? The devil unequivocally has a seed (a lineage). God wasn't referring to those who would fall spiritually later in their life. He wouldn't have referred to it as seed. Seed is from the get-go. Seed is source.

Did the devil create men? No
Did the devil make men? No.
Do men have freewill? Yes.
Can men commit to the devil? Yes
Can men commit to the Lord Jesus? Yes
Can men commit to God? Yes
Can men commit to Abraham? Yes

Are men freely deciding WHOM they commit to? Yes.
If a man commits to Abraham.........is that man OF Abraham? Yes
If a man commits to God................is that man OF God? Yes
If a man commits to the Lord Jesus..is that man OF the Lord Jesus? Yes

I committed TO Abraham......He is my Earthly Father.
I committed TO Lord Jesus....He is my Spiritual Father.
I committed TO God.............He is my Heavenly Father.

What I have DONE applies to me.
What Other men have DONE, has no application to me.

Absolutely there are countless verse references that APPLY to specific men.
Scripture IS FULL of KNOWLEDGE, and ALL TRUE.
YET Scripture DOES NOT APPLY THE SAME TO ALL MEN.

You are supposed to LEARN HOW TO RIGHTLY DIVIDE the WORD of TRUTH “IN SCRIPTURE”.... LEARNING WHAT DOES and DOES NOT APPLY TO YOU....
AND WHY.

“RIGHTLY DIVIDING”...absolutely applies to oneself...
“RIGHTLY DIVIDING”...also applies to ONE, who is applying to another THAT WHICH DOES APPLY.

SEED...? SEED the source.
I did not HAVE, the NATURAL seed of Abraham...Neither did Jesus.
As did Jesus, so did I, Take upon myself the SEED of Abraham.

And some men “take upon themselves” the seed of Satan.

Heb 2:
[16] For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I have a problem with this and I’m likely one in a line of countless people that have had these types of questions.

Christian theology teaches:

1. God created everyone ex nihilo. He brought into everyone from not existing to existence, designed each one of us from the ground up, loved us, and sent us to earth knowing exactly the decisions we would make.

2. Final judgement will result in the righteous in heaven and the wicked burning in Hell. Both being for eternity.

At its core, my question is why would he bring people into existence only to have them burn for eternity?

Some responses I have heard.

Diamond on black backdrop: The diamond shines brighter and more magnificent when placed against a black background. Hell is needed to show how great heaven will be.

I find this as an interesting take on the trolley problem. Build a trolley and willingly choose to have it Torture 9 out of 10 people for eternity so 1 out of 10 people can live in joy for all eternity.

God does not make us sin: But he did make us to sin. We did not exist, then He breathed life into us and made us the way we are and placed us in a position on earth where he knew we would not accept him and go to hell.

We shouldn’t be asking this question: The question itself causes us to doubt and distrust God, so we shouldn’t ask it.
I appreciate the sentiment, but it doesn’t answer the question

We don’t know: I can buy this one. I don’t love it, but I am not so prideful to say that I have as much understanding as God. His ways are above mine.

Is it loving to have the wicked burn in hell for eternity instead of never having existed? Instead of burning, could he not just strip the wicked of existence and put them back into the place they were before having been made?

Ther is one answer that works

God so loved the WORLD he gave his only begotten son, that whoever believes in him will not perish. But have eternal life

God supplied the plan of salvation for everyone.

But he will not force it on you. If he did that, we would be mad he made us robots. Which is exactly Satans lie.

People love their sin more than God. So as romans 1 says, they make up their own gods.

People do not go to hell because they sinned,

They go to hell because they reject the thing that could save them.

 

[Waiting on him]

Did you forget Adam? Who was he of? There wasn't anybody else for him to come from but God.

What about Jeremiah and John the Baptist? They had the Holy Spirit from the womb.

Jeremiah 1:5
Luke 1:15

Isaiah seems to indicate that TRUE Israel is of God from the womb.
Isaiah 44:21
Isaiah 49:15

Not everyone IS born of God.
Matthew 15:14

This brings us back around to the Wheat and the Tares.
Matthew 13:24-30, 36-40

1 John 3:9 KJV
[9] Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

 

[GEN2REV]

1 John 3:9 KJV
[9] Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Better stop sinning if you're born of God then.

Not everyone IS born of God.
Matthew 15:13

 

[Daniel Veler]

The Bible says that God created wicked people for punishment, so you may be onto something.....sounds mean and unfair , doesn’t it? If there “IS” a God, and I believe there is one, chances are he’s a lot smarter than you and I and knows a lot of stuff we don’t understand.....I bet He has good reasons for doing what He Does, and He sure as Hell does not need our approval.....at the very least, the God I know is one heckuva nice Guy......I’m gonna trust that He knows what He is doing....where were “ you” the day he hung the planets? And you have the nerve to be God’s Critic?

There are two paths that God ordained. One that leads to destruction. The other leads to righteousness. For God said whosoever wills let him come. God created all men to walk in him. But those that choose not will suffer the penalties laid out.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I agree entirely, I don’t think God sinned and I believe whole heartedly agency is a gift from God.

But imagine this. God was getting ready to create Steve, God knew that Steve would be grow up an average person, raise a family of mini Steve’s and die without accepting Christ as his savior, God prepared a place for Steve and his family to go to experience eternal torment because of their failure to accept Christ. At this point, why does God not just scrap the idea of Steve. If he continues on with his plan to make Steve, he is creating Steve purely to experience eternal torment.

So which way are you leaning? Eternal torment in the lake of fire or annihilation in the lake of fire?
Also, what do you think about the seeming inconsistency of there being one way to eternal life (receiving Gods Spirit) but also saying men who don’t receive that Spirit will live forever, albeit a bad living forever?

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Yes, he made it for the devil and his angels. And all the people God makes with his own two hands that don’t accept Christ get sent there.

It’s possible that God is more merciful than men make Him out to be. There is an odd passage where it appears that God might welcome in some who don’t know Him but who showed a small mercy to a member of His body.


31 “But when the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit upon his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered in his presence, and he will separate the people as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will place the sheep at his right hand and the goats at his left.

34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the Kingdom prepared for you from the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry, and you fed me. I was thirsty, and you gave me a drink. I was a stranger, and you invited me into your home. 36 I was naked, and you gave me clothing. I was sick, and you cared for me. I was in prison, and you visited me.’

37 “Then these righteous ones will reply, ‘Lord, when did we ever see you hungry and feed you? Or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 Or a stranger and show you hospitality? Or naked and give you clothing?39 When did we ever see you sick or in prison and visit you?’

40 “And the King will say, ‘I tell you the truth, when you did it to one of the least of these my brothers and sisters, you were doing it to me!’

41 “Then the King will turn to those on the left and say, ‘Away with you, you cursed ones, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his demons. 42 For I was hungry, and you didn’t feed me. I was thirsty, and you didn’t give me a drink. 43 I was a stranger, and you didn’t invite me into your home. I was naked, and you didn’t give me clothing. I was sick and in prison, and you didn’t visit me.’

44 “Then they will reply, ‘Lord, when did we ever see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and not help you?’

45 “And he will answer, ‘I tell you the truth, when you refused to help the least of these my brothers and sisters, you were refusing to help me.’

46 “And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous will go into eternal life.”

I think this is after the second resurrection, after the thousand years. And it reads as if both people are a bit shocked. It’s like they say…huh?? I never saw You and gave you a cup of water…when did I see you…?
But the others, seeming just as shocked, say, huh?? When did I ever see You and NOT give you a cup of water…?
He answers that one gave some small help or mercy to a member of His body while the other did not.

It seems the first group doesn’t know Jesus and the second group thinks they do know Him.

It’s sort of like the woman who hid the spies and lied to her own countrymen to save their lives. Because she did, she was saved from being killed/destroyed. She helped men who belonged to God, showed them mercy, gave them a “cup of water” even though she wasn’t one of them.

There’s also a parable, the one about the man who knew he was going to be fired, who then showed kindness to some men. It reads the same odd way.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Then there’s the whole bit about how to whoever God gives more, more will be required.
Religion tends to make it the opposite, where to whoever is given more, less will be required and they will be judged more leniently than those to whom God gave much less.

And that also ties in to how it will be worse for some men than it will be for sodom on the day of judgement.

 

[humbleseeker]

perhaps non-believers will be punished, then annihilated

 

[Fancy2020]

Yes, very strange! If God created the world in six days and the earth for only six thousand years, then how can we understand the fact that dinosaurs lay in the earth for millions of years!?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Yes, very strange! If God created the world in six days and the earth for only six thousand years, then how can we understand the fact that dinosaurs lay in the earth for millions of years!?

Where is your evidence they laid on earth for millions of years?

 

[Gabriel _Arch]

Yes, very strange! If God created the world in six days and the earth for only six thousand years, then how can we understand the fact that dinosaurs lay in the earth for millions of years!?

New Earth Creationists think Dinosaurs are Satan's ruse to mislead the saints into believing a lie about a billions of years old creation.

It's necessary you see. Because it must be quantified,why God would make himself known but 6 thousand or so years ago when ,you are to believe, Moshe, aka Moses,wrote the Pentateuch, the first 5 books of the Hebrew Bible, in order to let you know He is there.

If creation were billions of years old, God took his time in that announcement. Also, you can't accept that humans have existed for millions of years and for that same reason.

 

[strepho]

God doesn't torture anybody.

We're talking about Reprobates. They are habitual sinners. They refuse to repent. They think they see brighter light in satan.

2 Peter chapter 2:4 . For if God did not spare angels when they sinned but cast them into hell and committed them to pits of darkness, reserved for judgement.

These are the fallen angels. They're in sheol, called hell. Its holding place for the spirtualty dead or wicked until judgement day. Jesus taught in Luke a 16, neither side can cross over. There's Gulf fixed, we're those in sheol or paradise, can't cross over.
The fallen angels are in chains in hell. There in separate area away from those who are spiritually dead. The fallen angels left their place of habitation during Noah's flood and tried to pollute seed line were messiah would be born.

Gospel of Jude will document the fallen angels are going into lake of fire. They refused to be born in the flesh. The fallen angels king is satan. Get the picture.

2 Corinthians 2:7 to 2:12. Is about reprobates.
False faith.
Self worship.
Habitual sinners
Subverted minds
They have the mentality of satan.

The truth hurts thier ears.

Psalm chapter 37 . This is lake of fire. The wicked or Reprobates follow satan into lake of fire.

No one burns for eternity.

There souls are blotted out. They don't exist anymore.

Easy to understand.

Why???

We can't have troublemakers and problems during the eternity.

Those who choose to follow satan and Reject Jesus. We don't want them.

We don't want bleeding hearts either.

I hope this helps.