Questions; Jesus, Peter, and the keys

[Illuminator]

Concerning the keys of heaven: yes it was Peter who got them, but if they are a symbol of his authority to bind or loose whatever on earth or heaven (which was limited), he wasn't the only one.

No, but Peter was the first one. That proves preeminence. Furthermore, the other Apostles didn't have their name changed.

Matthew 18:18 KJV
Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

In chapter 18 he is talking to his disciples, not just Peter.

Wrong.
Matt. 16:18-19 – the verses are clear that Jesus, after acknowledging Peter’s receipt of divine revelation, turns the whole discourse to the person of Peter: Blessed are “you” Simon, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to “you,” and I tell “you,” “you” are Peter, and on this rock I will build my Church. I will give “you” the keys to the kingdom, and whatever “you” bind and loose on earth will be bound and loosed in heaven. Jesus’ whole discourse relates to the person of Peter, not his confession of faith.
So, if they keys to heaven mean the authority to bind and loose... No, Peter wasn't the only one.

No, but Peter was the first one. That proves preeminence. Furthermore, the other Apostles didn't have their name changed.

If Peter is the rock on which the Church is built then we are all in deep trouble. That Church would be built upon sand, since only God is the Rock and only Christ is the Rock.

2 Sam. 22:2-3, 32, 47; 23:3; Psalm 18:2,31,46; 19:4; 28:1; 42:9; 62:2,6,7; 89:26; 94:22; 144:1-2 – in these verses, God is also called “rock.” Hence, from these verses, non-Catholics often argue that God, and not Peter, is the rock that Jesus is referring to in Matt. 16:18. This argument not only ignores the plain meaning of the applicable texts, but also assumes words used in Scripture can only have one meaning. This, of course, is not true. For example:

• 1 Cor. 3:11 – Jesus is called the only foundation of the Church, and yet in Eph. 2:20, the apostles are called the foundation of the Church.
• Similarly, in 1 Peter 2:25, Jesus is called the Shepherd of the flock, but in Acts 20:28, the apostles are called the shepherds of the flock.

These verses show that there are multiple metaphors for the Church, and that words used by the inspired writers of Scripture can have various meanings. Catholics agree that God is the rock of the Church, but this does not mean He cannot confer this distinction upon Peter as well, to facilitate the unity He desires for the Church. (both/and, not either/or)

Yes Enoch... True. The Apostles took careful steps to let it be known that they were not the rock which the Church is built on.

Where did they do that? Chapter and verse, please.

They noted their importance and proper place, but none ever said the Church is built on "me".

No one had to because everyone knew who the ROCK was. Cephas is transliterated from the Aramaic "Kepha". Paul refers to Peter as Cephas 6 times. Why would Paul use an Aramaic title to a Greek speaking audience??? Because everyone knew who the Rock was, no matter what their language. Furthermore, Eph. 2:20, the apostles are called the foundation of the Church. None of the Apostles wrote "I am the foundation of the Church" so none ever said the Church is built on "me" doesn't make sense.

 

[FHII]

No, but Peter was the first one. That proves preeminence. Furthermore, the other Apostles didn't have their name changed.

The fact that Peter was the first holds bo relevance. He wasn't given that power immediately, as was displayed about 7 verses later. Jesus didn't give Peter "preeminent" power.

The fact that the other Apostles didn't have their name changed means nothing. Well, maybe something... Like I said, name changes happen because a change of character is needed. Peter needed a character change... Maybe the others didn't.

2 Sam. 22:2-3, 32, 47; 23:3; Psalm 18:2,31,46; 19:4; 28:1; 42:9; 62:2,6,7; 89:26; 94:22; 144:1-2 – in these verses, God is also called “rock.” Hence, from these verses, non-Catholics often argue that God, and not Peter, is the rock that Jesus is referring to in Matt. 16:18

Jesus was referring to the revelation Peter brought out, which Peter got from the Father. So right off the bat you are incorrect.

This, of course, is not true. For example:

• 1 Cor. 3:11 – Jesus is called the only foundation of the Church, and yet in Eph. 2:20, the apostles are called the foundation of the Church.

No, they aren't.

Ephesians 2:20 KJV
And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone ;

The Apostles (not Peter alone, by the way) AND the prophets HAVE a foundation; they are NOT the foundation. They never said they were the foundation, but they preached of Christ and his teachings... Not them themselves.

Similarly, in 1 Peter 2:25, Jesus is called the Shepherd of the flock, but in Acts 20:28, the apostles are called the shepherds of the flock.

No, they aren't! I don't mind them having that title, but no they aren't and even so... Its not their flock!

Acts 20:28 KJV
Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

You are leaving out quite a bit assuming they are shepards on the same level as Jesus (and yes, that is what you insinuated. Shall we review what you wrote?)

These verses show that there are multiple metaphors for the Church,

No, they don't.

Catholics agree that God is the rock of the Church, but this does not mean He cannot confer this distinction upon Peter as well, to facilitate the unity He desires for the Church. (both/and, not either/or)

Or Paul, right? After all.. He is the true starter of the Church at Rome.

Where did they do that? Chapter and verse, please.

You already quoted some of them.

None of the Apostles wrote "I am the foundation of the Church" so none ever said the Church is built on "me" doesn't make sense.

Glad you see it my way.

 

[Mosheli]

Questions about Jesus, Peter, and the keys!

How can Jesus be the builder and the church being built?

If Christ is the rock:

1) Why does Christ even mention Peter?

2) Why did Christ change Peter’s name? (Indicating an office or ministry, similar to Abram & Jacob)

3) Why did Christ give the keys to Peter? (and only to Peter) keys of jurisdictional authority. (Refer to Isa 22:21-22)

4) Why does Christ identify peter with himself! Matt 17:27
Where is the coin for the other apostles?

5) Why is Peter commanded to feed Christ’s sheep (the other apostles) and the lambs? (The people)
Jn 21:17

If Peter’s confession is the rock:

1) How do you govern the church and administer the kingdom with a confession?

2) How do you give jurisdictional authority to a confession? (Keys of the kingdom)

3) How do you give a confession the power to bind and loose?

It doesn't matter because the problem is not whether Peter is the rock or leader of apostles or has the keys/authority. No one disputes Peter was leader of the apostles (though James was leader of the community). No is there dispute that Babylon in Peter's letter was probably Rome.
But there is dispute about Peter being in Rome, his letter only implies he was only passing on greetings received from there but he was not also there himself. And there is dispute about the bishop's of Rome being true successors of Peter. The popes list is certainly a fake as it matches the Roman emperors list (eg pope Pius 1 matches emperor Antoninus Pius in name, meaning, dates, details).

Jesus can be both. There is no dualism. We are One with him, he is in us and we are in him. "I am the vine and you are the branches." He rose and fills. Church is both body of christ and bride of christ.

Jesus said he is the corner/foundation stone. He is also the stone/rock in Daniel. Peter is only a stone/rock like we all are living stones built into edifice. Besides which is is disputed which words of Matt 16 are referring to Peter or Church or Jesus.
The churches center is Jerusalem (symbolicly Ephesus in Revelation 1-3) not Rome ("Pergamum/Babylon/Nineveh").

Too many elite "christians" and others are secret folowers of the popes/ Bush, Obama, CLinton, Trump, Sanders, Le Pen, Macron, Luxon (NZ), etc etc. Revelation says "come out of her" but christians are not listening they keep falling for the same old "Peter has the keys" used since the synod of Whitby in mid 600s ad. If you want to follow the pope I have no problem with that, but when many christians and elite are doing it secretly without admitting it publically it is deception.

 

[Saint of God]

No one is saying that. Read the Protestant scholarly quotes again. Jesus gave Peter a new name. Peter=rock.
Mark 3:16; John 1:42 – Jesus renames Simon “Kepha” in Aramaic which literally means “rock.” This was an extraordinary thing for Jesus to do, because “rock” was not even a name in Jesus’ time. Jesus did this, not to give Simon a strange name, but to identify his new status among the apostles. When God changes a person’s name, He changes their status. John 1:42 is enough to settle the matter, but apparently it is not for some people.

You are using a passage out of context to argue a point. The context of the passage is, whom do men say that I am...matt 16
13 When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?
14 And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.
15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
20 Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ.
Your whole premise makes no sense, since only two epistles are credited to Peter... How is Peter the rock that Jesus builds his church upon when Paul rebukes him for causing division? Gal 2
11 But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.
12 For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision.

Gen. 17:5; 32:28; 2 Kings 23:34; Acts 9:4; 13:9 – for example, in these verses, we see that God changes the following people’s names and, as a result, they become special agents of God: Abram to Abraham; Jacob to Israel, Eliakim to Jehoiakim, Saul to Paul.

This has nothing to do with the passage in question. And Jesus is not God... You believe Peter, don't you? Who did Peter say Jesus was?

The keys are not given to each individual believer. Keys represent authority. Imagine going to a pro baseball game, and suddenly all the players are umpires. Chaos would surely follow.

Of course they are...
Matthew 5:20
For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Matthew 7:21
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Matthew 18:3
And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.
John 3:5
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

A non-sequitur fallacy. Again, Peter means ROCK. You contradict a long list of scholars from a variety of Protestant sources. Maybe you should write your own Bible study manual and see how far you get.
Matt. 16:18 – Jesus said in Aramaic, you are “Kepha” and on this “Kepha” I will build my Church. In Aramaic, “kepha” means a massive stone, and “evna” means little pebble. Some non-Catholics argue that, because the Greek word for rock is “petra”, that “Petros” actually means “a small rock”, and therefore Jesus was attempting to diminish Peter right after blessing him by calling him a small rock. Not only is this nonsensical in the context of Jesus’ blessing of Peter, Jesus was speaking Aramaic and used “Kepha,” not “evna.” Using Petros to translate Kepha was done simply to reflect the masculine noun of Peter.

I never said Peter did not mean rock...he is just not my rock. neither is he the rock that Jesus' church is built upon.

Moreover, if the translator wanted to identify Peter as the “small rock,” he would have used “lithos” which means a little pebble in Greek. "lithos" is not used.

who cares what the translators want? You should be looking at the context of the passage and the reason for the statement.

We agree that Jesus builds the Church. It's BOTH/AND (Hebraic approach to Scripture) not EITHER/OR. (false dichotomous thinking)

You are only playing with words... Jesus builds his church on his teachings. Not on Peter. So how can you say we agree when you believe Jesus builds his church on Peter?

To argue that Jesus first blesses Peter for having received divine revelation from the Father, then diminishes him by calling him a small pebble, and then builds him up again by giving him the keys to the kingdom of heaven is entirely illogical, and a gross manipulation of the text to avoid the truth of Peter’s leadership in the Church.

You seem to be making an argument that Peter had just received that revelation, and that Jesus is blessing him for that. Jn 1
40 One of the two which heard John speak, and followed him, was Andrew, Simon Peter's brother.
41 He first findeth his own brother Simon, and saith unto him, We have found the Messias, which is, being interpreted, the Christ.
42 And he brought him to Jesus. And when Jesus beheld him, he said, Thou art Simon the son of Jona: thou shalt be called Cephas, which is by interpretation, A stone.

This is a three-fold blessing of Peter – you are blessed, you are the rock on which I will build my Church, and you will receive the keys to the kingdom of heaven (not you are blessed for receiving Revelation, but you are still an insignificant little pebble, and yet I am going to give you the keys to the kingdom DUH).

Mk 9 You are reading that into the passage... The passage is about who Jesus is...not who Peter is... And Jesus taught the rock must become a pebble
34 But they held their peace: for by the way they had disputed among themselves, who should be the greatest.
35 And he sat down, and called the twelve, and saith unto them, If any man desire to be first, the same shall be last of all, and servant of all.

Matt. 16:18-19 – to further rebut SofG's argument that Jesus was speaking about Peter’s confession of faith (not Peter himself) based on the revelation he received, the verses are clear that Jesus, after acknowledging Peter’s receipt of divine revelation, turns the whole discourse to the person of Peter: Blessed are “you” Simon, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to “you,” and I tell “you,” “you” are Peter, and on this rock I will build my Church. I will give “you” the keys to the kingdom, and whatever “you” bind and loose on earth will be bound and loosed in heaven. Jesus’ whole discourse relates to the person of Peter, not his confession of faith.

Then it must be that Peter was the only one with power to bind and loose. Also there is no mention of a line of succession.

Luke 22:31-32 – Jesus also prays that Peter’s faith may not fail and charges Peter to be the one to strengthen the other apostles – “Simon, satan demanded to have you (plural, referring to all the apostles) to sift you (plural) like wheat, but I prayed for you (singular) that your (singular) faith may not fail, and when you (singular) have turned again, strengthen your brethren. Did God the Father ignore Jesus' prayer???

More comedy by you... Are you claiming that all the apostles are named Simon? Clearly Jesus is referring to only one person.
31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat:
32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.
33 And he said unto him, Lord, I am ready to go with thee, both into prison, and to death.

Acts 1,2,3,4,5,8,15 – no one questions Peter’s authority to speak for the Church, declare anathemas, and resolve doctrinal debates. Peter is the rock on which the Church is built who feeds Jesus’ sheep and whose faith will not fail.

Aramaic Bible

70 verses indicating Peter's role of leadership for the universal Church and chief of the Apostles

The false assertion by you that Jesus is building his church on a man is funny. You are saying that when Peter died the church died also...

 

[Illuminator]

The fact that Peter was the first holds bo relevance.

Maybe not to you.

He wasn't given that power immediately, as was displayed about 7 verses later. Jesus didn't give Peter "preeminent" power.

Yes, He did. "Keys" are a symbol of authority, not power. Caesar had power.

The fact that the other Apostles didn't have their name changed means nothing. Well, maybe something... Like I said, name changes happen because a change of character is needed. Peter needed a character change... Maybe the others didn't.

Peter's status changed, not his character. He was an idiot at times.

Jesus was referring to the revelation Peter brought out, which Peter got from the Father. So right off the bat you are incorrect.

A long list of Protestant Bible reference manuals and scholars disagree with your opinion.

For the Protestant Reformers to rationalize breaking away from what was universally acknowledged in their culture as the Christian Church, it was necessary for them to deny the Catholic Church’s authority. To maintain their positions, they were forced to portray it as a kind of “anti-Church” that was unjustly claiming the prerogatives of Christ’s true (but invisible) Church.

Their chief target was, of course, the pope. To justify breaking away from the successor of Peter, they had to undercut the Petrine office itself. They were forced to deny the plain reading of Matthew 16:18—that Jesus made Peter the rock on which he would build his Church.

More recent Protestants have been able to back away from the position that early Protestants felt forced to make and have been able to admit that Peter is, indeed, the rock. It remains to be seen whether they will start drawing the necessary inferences from this fact.​

Protestant Scholars Admit Peter Is the Rock

No, they aren't
Ephesians 2:20 KJV
And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone ;

What part of 'built upon the foundation of the apostles" don't you understand?

The Apostles (not Peter alone, by the way) AND the prophets HAVE a foundation; they are NOT the foundation. They never said they were the foundation, but they preached of Christ and his teachings... Not them themselves.

You are adding to Scripture what isn't there. (HAVE) Sure, Peter AND the Apostles preached of Christ and his teachings. The Church was built on a foundation made up of sinful PEOPLE, not a book that wasn't fully ratified until 4 centuries later.

No, they aren't! I don't mind them having that title, but no they aren't and even so... Its not their flock!

Acts 20:28 KJV
Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

What part of "and to all the flock" don't you understand?

You are leaving out quite a bit assuming they are shepards on the same level as Jesus (and yes, that is what you insinuated. Shall we review what you wrote?)

By all means, and I made no such insinuation

No, they don't.

So you are saying there is only one metaphor for the Church?

Or Paul, right? After all.. He is the true starter of the Church at Rome.

Not Paul by himself.

“Through envy and jealousy, the greatest and most righteous pillars [of the Church] have been persecuted and put to death. Let us set before our eyes the illustrious apostles. Peter, through unrighteous envy, endured not one or two, but numerous labours and when he had at length suffered martyrdom, departed to the place of glory due to him.” ​

Clement of Rome, The First Epistle of Clement, 5 (c. A.D. 96).

“I do not, as Peter and Paul, issue commandments unto you.” ​

Ignatius of Antioch, Epistle to the Romans, 4 (c. A.D. 110).
I can see why Calvinoids dismiss or ignore Ignatius of Antioch.
Bishops: NT, Early Church, & Baptists (vs. James White) Bishops: NT, Early Church, & Baptists (vs. James White)
Library : The Seven Epistles Of St. Ignatius Of Antioch

You already quoted some of them.

I asked you for a chapter and verse that clearly states or implies, "The Apostles took careful steps to let it be known that they were not the rock which the Church is built on." There is no such verse. Foundation, yes, rock no. Only one Apostle was renamed ROCK.

Glad you see it my way.

Like I said at the bottom of post #21, your way doesn't make sense. Straw man fallacies, once exposed, don't make sense.

 

[Illuminator]

...And Jesus is not God...

You have "0" credibility right off the bat. There are too many threads contaminated by anti-trinitarian fools so I don't bother keeping up with all of them.

 

[Saint of God]

You have "0" credibility right off the bat. There are too many threads contaminated by anti-trinitarian fools so I don't bother keeping up with all of them.

Why are you attacking me? It is Peter you have a problem with...Jesus asked his disciples...
13 When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?
14 And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.
15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
...There is nothing added to that... so your claim that Jesus is God is not what Peter believed. You, my friend, believe a lie.

 

[Saint of God]

Yes, He did. "Keys" are a symbol of authority, not power. Caesar had power.

You keep exposing your ignorance of the scripture.
Matthew 28:18
And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
Luke 10:19
Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you.

 

[theefaith]

Is Peter a greater rock than Jesus? Is Abraham a greater rock than Jesus? Unless you can show that Jesus answers to any of those, it must be that Jesus is the head rock.
1 Peter 2:7
Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,



Yet you are cherry-picking verses... therefore YOU didn't get anywhere..

The church is an extension of Christ!

Jesus Christ extends his mission, power, and authority to His church of His apostles!

Even His judging!
Matt 19:28
His teaching authority!
Matt 28:19 and Jn 20:21
His power to forgive sins!
Jn 20:23
His being the light of the world!
Matt 5:14
His ministry of reconciliation!
2 cor 5:18
His authority in governing the church and administering the kingdom!
Matt 16:18-19 & 18:18 Jn 21:17
Lk 22:29
Apart from me you can do nothing. Jn 15:5
So the church is subject to Christ!
Eph 5:24
Christ shares His glory! 2 thes 1:10 rev 12:1


Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Matt 18:17 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 acts 9:4 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20 acts 2:42 1 Tim 3:15

Jesus Christ is the rock of salvation!

Peter is the rock that the church is built on by Christ alone!

Lk 22
All apostles But Jesus prays for Peter alone

Jn 21:17 Peter entrusted with the flock or church

Only Peter and His successors have
Jurisdictional authority from Christ to govern the church!

Already acting in the person of Christ even acting as intermediary!

It is Jesus Christ who identifies peter with himself!

Matt 17:24 And when they were come to Capernaum, they that received tribute money came to Peter, and said, Doth not your master pay tribute?

25 He saith, Yes. And when he was come into the houser, Jesus prevented him, saying, What thinkest thou, Simon? of whom do the kings of the earth take custom or tribute? of their own children, or of strangers?

26 Peter saith unto him, Of strangers. Jesus saith unto him, Then are the children free.

27 Notwithstanding, lest we should offend them, go thou to the sea, and cast an hook, and take up the fish that first cometh up; and when thou hast opened his mouth, thou shalt find a piece of money: that take, and give unto them for me and thee.

It is Jesus Christ who identifies peter with himself! Matt 17:27

Jesus Christ gives the keys of the kingdom to peter matt 16:18-19 making him prime minister applying Isa 22:21-22 to peter

It’s Christ who does this

Why is the name of peter even mentioned?

Why does Christ change Peter’s name, God changing a persons name like Abram to Abraham or Jacob to Israel always signifies a mission or ministry!

Why does Christ give him the keys of jurisdictional authority that the prime minister holds under the king to administer the kingdom? Isa 22:21-22

How do you govern the church and administer the kingdom with a confession?

How do you give jurisdictional authority to a confession? (Keys of the kingdom)

How do you give a confession the power to bind and loose?


also have to explain
Isa 22:21-22 jurisdictional authority of the keys and called father
Matt 28:19 go teach baptize
Jn 20:21-23 same mission power and authority as christ
Eph 2:20 church built on the apostles
Matt 23 successors of Moses have the jurisdictional authority and the power to bind and loose which Christ says must be obeyed, then taken from them matt 21:43 given to Peter and the apostles and their successors

Lk 22:29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;
30 That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat: (plural Peter and his successors)
32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.



Applies only to Peter as “prince of the apostles”!

Peter and his successors are the Leader of the apostles and the head of the church until Christ returns!

Matt 10:2 Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter,

Lk 22:29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;
30 That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat: (plural Peter and his successors)
32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.

Lk 22:32 Christ prayed for Peter!

Peter is head of the church on earth in the place of Christ until His return!

Isa 22:21-22 21 And I will clothe him with thy robe, and strengthen him with thy girdle, and I will commit thy government into his hand: and he shall be a father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and to the house of Judah.

22 And the key of the house of David will I lay upon his shoulder; so he shall open, and none shall shut; and he shall shut, and none shall open.

Matt 16:19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Matt 23:1 power and authority of the kingdom known in the keys and binding and loosing, Matt 21:43 kingdom shall be taken from you given to another who will bear fruit. (Peter the apostles in holy church Lk 22:29)

Matt 17:27 Jesus identified peter with himself.

Matt 16:17 Peter alone received revelation from the Father

Lk 22:32 Peter to strengthen his brethren (the apostles)

Jn 21:17 feed my sheep

Peter exercises his authority over the apostles and the church!

Acts 1:15
Acts 3:4
Acts 5:5 5:10
Acts 15:7

ONLY TO PETER CHRIST SAID: THOU ART PETER AND UPON THIS ROCK I WILL BUILT MY CHURCH, AND THE GATES OF HELL SHALL NOT PREVAIL AGAINST IT!Matt 16:18

Peter is the prime minister, father, and head of the church on earth until Christ returns Isa 22:21-22

Seat of peter remains Until Christ returns
Matt 28:19-20


Matthew 5:14
Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.


Rom 14:10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

4 important questions:

1) How do you govern the church and administer the kingdom with a confession?

2) How do you give jurisdictional authority to a confession? (Keys of the kingdom)

3) How do you give a confession the power to bind and loose?

4) why did Christ give the keys to Peter (and only to Peter) keys of jurisdictional authority. Isa 22:21-22 why even bother to mention Peter if he is not involved?

Explain Jn 20:21 Peter and the apostles and their successors have the same mission, ministry, power, and authority as Christ! “As the father sent me, so I send you”!

Matt 28:19 christ communicates his authority to peter and the apostles to teach all nations, baptize all disciples!
Jn 20:21-23 apostles even have authority to forgive sins
Eph 2:20 church built on the apostles
Matt 23 the authority and power of the successors of Moses required to be obeyed are taken from them and given to Peter and the apostles

Jn 21:17
Peter commanded to Feed my sheep:

2 Tim 3: 8 Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.
(Protestants, fundamentalists, etc.)

Christ and His church are one!
God cannot reveal error and the church cannot teach error!

 

[theefaith]

God had chosen impetuous Peter to eventually become a very stable and solid apostle. Hence Peter (Petros = Kepha = Cephas = little rock or stone) was chosen to be the apostle to the Jews (and Paul as apostle to the Gentiles). Peter's confession of faith given by revelation was built on the Rock who is Christ. So the metaphorical "keys" given to Peter were in fact the keys of the Gospel. Since "keys" is plural, Peter first preached the Gospel to the Jews at Pentecost and then to the Gentiles in the house of Cornelius. But Peter did not preach the Gospel in Rome, and is not even mentioned by Paul in the epistle to the Romans.

Now if you still want to hold on to the claptrap about Peter and the Papacy, you can certainly do so, but the Bible gives you no support. Only legends manufactured by the Catholic Church.

Jesus Christ is the rock of salvation!

Peter is the rock that the church is built on by Christ alone!

Lk 22
All apostles But Jesus prays for Peter alone

Jn 21:17 Peter entrusted with the flock or church

Only Peter and His successors have
Jurisdictional authority from Christ to govern the church!

Already acting in the person of Christ even acting as intermediary!

It is Jesus Christ who identifies peter with himself!

Matt 17:24 And when they were come to Capernaum, they that received tribute money came to Peter, and said, Doth not your master pay tribute?

25 He saith, Yes. And when he was come into the houser, Jesus prevented him, saying, What thinkest thou, Simon? of whom do the kings of the earth take custom or tribute? of their own children, or of strangers?

26 Peter saith unto him, Of strangers. Jesus saith unto him, Then are the children free.

27 Notwithstanding, lest we should offend them, go thou to the sea, and cast an hook, and take up the fish that first cometh up; and when thou hast opened his mouth, thou shalt find a piece of money: that take, and give unto them for me and thee.

It is Jesus Christ who identifies peter with himself! Matt 17:27

Jesus Christ gives the keys of the kingdom to peter matt 16:18-19 making him prime minister applying Isa 22:21-22 to peter

It’s Christ who does this

Why is the name of peter even mentioned?

Why does Christ change Peter’s name, God changing a persons name like Abram to Abraham or Jacob to Israel always signifies a mission or ministry!

Why does Christ give him the keys of jurisdictional authority that the prime minister holds under the king to administer the kingdom? Isa 22:21-22

How do you govern the church and administer the kingdom with a confession?

How do you give jurisdictional authority to a confession? (Keys of the kingdom)

How do you give a confession the power to bind and loose?


also have to explain
Isa 22:21-22 jurisdictional authority of the keys and called father
Matt 28:19 go teach baptize
Jn 20:21-23 same mission power and authority as christ
Eph 2:20 church built on the apostles
Matt 23 successors of Moses have the jurisdictional authority and the power to bind and loose which Christ says must be obeyed, then taken from them matt 21:43 given to Peter and the apostles and their successors

Lk 22:29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;
30 That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat: (plural Peter and his successors)
32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.



Applies only to Peter as “prince of the apostles”!

Peter and his successors are the Leader of the apostles and the head of the church until Christ returns!

Matt 10:2 Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter,

Lk 22:29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;
30 That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat: (plural Peter and his successors)
32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.

Lk 22:32 Christ prayed for Peter!

Peter is head of the church on earth in the place of Christ until His return!

Isa 22:21-22 21 And I will clothe him with thy robe, and strengthen him with thy girdle, and I will commit thy government into his hand: and he shall be a father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and to the house of Judah.

22 And the key of the house of David will I lay upon his shoulder; so he shall open, and none shall shut; and he shall shut, and none shall open.

Matt 16:19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Matt 23:1 power and authority of the kingdom known in the keys and binding and loosing, Matt 21:43 kingdom shall be taken from you given to another who will bear fruit. (Peter the apostles in holy church Lk 22:29)

Matt 17:27 Jesus identified peter with himself.

Matt 16:17 Peter alone received revelation from the Father

Lk 22:32 Peter to strengthen his brethren (the apostles)

Jn 21:17 feed my sheep

Peter exercises his authority over the apostles and the church!

Acts 1:15
Acts 3:4
Acts 5:5 5:10
Acts 15:7

ONLY TO PETER CHRIST SAID: THOU ART PETER AND UPON THIS ROCK I WILL BUILT MY CHURCH, AND THE GATES OF HELL SHALL NOT PREVAIL AGAINST IT!Matt 16:18

Peter is the prime minister, father, and head of the church on earth until Christ returns Isa 22:21-22

Seat of peter remains Until Christ returns
Matt 28:19-20


Matthew 5:14
Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.


Rom 14:10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

4 important questions:

1) How do you govern the church and administer the kingdom with a confession?

2) How do you give jurisdictional authority to a confession? (Keys of the kingdom)

3) How do you give a confession the power to bind and loose?

4) why did Christ give the keys to Peter (and only to Peter) keys of jurisdictional authority. Isa 22:21-22 why even bother to mention Peter if he is not involved?

Explain Jn 20:21 Peter and the apostles and their successors have the same mission, ministry, power, and authority as Christ! “As the father sent me, so I send you”!

Matt 28:19 christ communicates his authority to peter and the apostles to teach all nations, baptize all disciples!
Jn 20:21-23 apostles even have authority to forgive sins
Eph 2:20 church built on the apostles
Matt 23 the authority and power of the successors of Moses required to be obeyed are taken from them and given to Peter and the apostles

Jn 21:17
Peter commanded to Feed my sheep:

2 Tim 3: 8 Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.
(Protestants, fundamentalists, etc.)

Christ and His church are one!
God cannot reveal error and the church cannot teach error!

 

[theefaith]

Are you questioning that Jesus was the builder? The Church is built upon the apostles and prophets and Jesus is the chief cornerstone. In one way it wasn't all him but in another way it was. He used others to build it, but it was his doctrine and truth the others used.

But as to your question as to how Jesus could be the builder and the Church being built, you should ask Jesus.

Matthew 16:18 KJV
And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

I trust you are perhaps a little familiar with the vers, no? Jesus said he was building his Church.

So Peter is the rock the church is billt on?

 

[FHII]

You are adding to Scripture what isn't there. (HAVE) Sure, Peter AND the Apostles preached of Christ and his teachings. The Church was built on a foundation made up of sinful PEOPLE, not a book that wasn't fully ratified until 4 centuries later.

Explaining a verse is not the same as adding to the verse. This quote is again referring to Ephesians 2:20. The notion that the Church wasn't built on the Bible is wrong. First off, just because it wasn't ratified doesn't mean it didn't exist. Bow of course, at the time the books of the NT were still being written, they had the OT which is nearly 80% of the Bible. All the authors relied and heavily quoted it, even Jesus. Jesus is THE ONLY one who pointed to himself as the Word and the only way to salvation. If he used scripture as his foundation (and he said that the scripture testified of himself) then that is settled. I mean, the Church really was built on HIM and even he used that book that wasn't ratified until 4 centuries later.

[On Paul being the true starter of the Church at Rome]:

Not Paul by himself.

Never said otherwise, myself. I don't need Clement or Ignatius to prove that either. Paul had many faithful helpers. He was the one who said the Church was built on the foundation of the Apostles and Prophets and Christ. And again, the men themselves weren't the foundation, it was their doctrine. The closest you can come to saying it was built on physical men is to say it was built on their actions (acts, or implementation of their doctrine.)

So no... It wasn't built on Paul alone. Nevertheless, I do have this scripture:

Acts 23:11 KJV
And the night following the Lord stood by him, and said, Be of good cheer, Paul: for as thou hast testified of me in Jerusalem, so must thou bear witness also at Rome.

Jesus told Paul he needed him to bear witness in Rome. Is there any other Apostle that can say the same thing? No, there isn't. Indirectly you can say they were to preach throughout the world (which would include Rome)... But Jesus never told anyone other than Paul to go to Rome.

I asked you for a chapter and verse that clearly states or implies, "The Apostles took careful steps to let it be known that they were not the rock which the Church is built on." There is no such verse. Foundation, yes, rock no. Only one Apostle was renamed ROCK.

Well like I said, you already quoted some of them. Furthermore some have already been discussed. But here you go:

1 Corinthians 10:4 KJV
And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

Romans 9:33 KJV
As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

1 Peter 2:8 KJV
And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.

The above verses point to Jesus and only a fool would say otherwise. Even Peter/Cephus/Petra pointed to Jesus.


Romans 1:1 KJV
Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,
1 Corinthians 1:1 KJV
Paul, called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother,
1 Corinthians 1:13 KJV
Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?
2 Corinthians 1:1 KJV
Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timothy our brother, unto the church of God which is at Corinth, with all the saints which are in all Achaia:
Galatians 1:1 KJV
Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead
Ephesians 1:1 KJV
Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:
Ephesians 3:1 KJV
For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,
Acts 4:12 KJV
Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
Ephesians 3:8 KJV
Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;
1 Peter 1:1 KJV
Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,
2 Peter 1:1 KJV
Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:

The Apostles point to Christ as the Rock on whom the house/Church was built. They referred to themselves as Apostles (ones that were sent) and servants. There are even verses where they quoted that book that wasn't ratified yet that the Rock was Christ.

It is unreasonable to believe that the Apostles would not state that Christ was the Rock on whom the Church was built.

Yes, Simon bar Jonah was renamed Cephas or Peter or stone or rock. Makes no difference to me... Jesus was also called a stone so the arguement that Peter meant "little stone" doesnt matter to me.

[In response to me rejoicing that Illuminator see's it my way]:

Like I said at the bottom of post #21, your way doesn't make sense. Straw man fallacies, once exposed, don't make sense.

Lets recap:

None of the Apostles wrote "I am the foundation of the Church" so none ever said the Church is built on "me" doesn't make sense.

I fully agree: no Apostle ever said they were the foundation of the Church and none said the Church was built on them.

Bottom line: the Church was built on Christ; not Peter.

 

[theefaith]

It doesn't matter because the problem is not whether Peter is the rock or leader of apostles or has the keys/authority. No one disputes Peter was leader of the apostles (though James was leader of the community). No is there dispute that Babylon in Peter's letter was probably Rome.
But there is dispute about Peter being in Rome, his letter only implies he was only passing on greetings received from there but he was not also there himself. And there is dispute about the bishop's of Rome being true successors of Peter. The popes list is certainly a fake as it matches the Roman emperors list (eg pope Pius 1 matches emperor Antoninus Pius in name, meaning, dates, details).

Jesus can be both. There is no dualism. We are One with him, he is in us and we are in him. "I am the vine and you are the branches." He rose and fills. Church is both body of christ and bride of christ.

Jesus said he is the corner/foundation stone. He is also the stone/rock in Daniel. Peter is only a stone/rock like we all are living stones built into edifice. Besides which is is disputed which words of Matt 16 are referring to Peter or Church or Jesus.
The churches center is Jerusalem (symbolicly Ephesus in Revelation 1-3) not Rome ("Pergamum/Babylon/Nineveh").

Too many elite "christians" and others are secret folowers of the popes/ Bush, Obama, CLinton, Trump, Sanders, Le Pen, Macron, Luxon (NZ), etc etc. Revelation says "come out of her" but christians are not listening they keep falling for the same old "Peter has the keys" used since the synod of Whitby in mid 600s ad. If you want to follow the pope I have no problem with that, but when many christians and elite are doing it secretly without admitting it publically it is deception.

are you familiar with Jewish practices such as Passover?

 

[FHII]

Illuminator, I have responded to you latest post to me fully, yet I can only find the second half (post 32). Did I not send a post before that? Let me know...

 

[BreadOfLife]

That does not help your argument. Jesus' Hebrew name is Yeshua and there are many others with that name in the scriptures. So the big question is... Are you saying that Peter is the rock of your salvation?

You are funny... Jesus is referring to the revelation from the Father that he Jesus is his son. That is why he said 'you are Peter'. You have to remember the original question to get the context. "Whom do men say that I am?" Peter answered correctly, and Jesus proved it by saying You are Peter... and it is based on that revelation Jesus builds his church... and the keys of heaven are given to those who believe Jesus is the son of God like Peter.

Sorry if you took it that way, but my intention was not to imply that. My intention was to show that Jesus is our rock and not Peter... If Peter is your rock, then Peter should have died for you.

That is what cherrypicking is... picking verses and using them out of context. (the name Peter means little rock)

Yes, it is what you did...

As I explained to you in my last post - Jesus bestowed a THREEfold blessing on Simon Peter. The FIRST par (v. 17) is indeed about the revelation he received from God about Jesus. The next 2 parts pof the blessing are both Prophetic (v. 18) and Authoritative (v. 19).

- At the Last Sipper - Jesus tells Peter that He has prayed for HIM (singular) to shtrengthen the others.
- When Peter is restored after the Resurresction - Jesus askes Peter and Peter alone to "feed His lambs" and "tend His sheep" (John 21:15-19)
- Peter's name appears FIRST in every list of the Apostles - though he was NOT the first Apostle chosen (Matt. 10:2; Mk 3:16; Luke 6:14; Acts 1:13).
- In Rev. 21, we see the New Jerusalem coming out of Heaven. On the twelve Foundations are the names of the Twelve Apostles.
WHOSE name do you think is on the first foundation?

And finally, NO - "Kepha" doesn't mean "Little Rock". "Peter" is simply an English translation of the Greek transliteration of the Aramaic term, "Kepha" - which is why Jesus called Simon. And, as I already explained - Kepha does not connote size. It simply means "ROCK".

Ask yourself why Paul refers to him in his letters NOT as "Petros" in the Greek - but as "Cephas".

They like you all, ignore the original question... Whom do men say that I am? Jesus did not build his church on Peter. Jesus builds his church on the faith of men who believe he is the son of God...

Yes - it's funny how ALL of the same Protestant scholars I listed are corrct when when it comes to other Protestant doctrines - but they're "ALL wroing" when it comes to Peter being the "Rock" of Matt. 16:18 . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

that my friend is cherry-picking... You are trying to infer that the verse is referring to Peter.
Are you saying this is a prophecy of Peter
Isa 22
20 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will call my servant Eliakim the son of Hilkiah:
21 And I will clothe him with thy robe, and strengthen him with thy girdle, and I will commit thy government into his hand: and he shall be a father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and to the house of Judah.
22 And the key of the house of David will I lay upon his shoulder; so he shall open, and none shall shut; and he shall shut, and none shall open.
23 And I will fasten him as a nail in a sure place; and he shall be for a glorious throne to his father's house.
24 And they shall hang upon him all the glory of his father's house, the offspring and the issue, all vessels of small quantity, from the vessels of cups, even to all the vessels of flagons.
25 In that day, saith the Lord of hosts, shall the nail that is fastened in the sure place be removed, and be cut down, and fall; and the burden that was upon it shall be cut off: for the Lord hath spoken it.

Eliakim being given the Keys to the house of David is an OT TYPE of Peter, who was given the Keys to the Kningdom of Heaven.

Only a blind person would NOT see the almost vernbbatim blessings and commissions of Authority in these 2 situations.

 

[BreadOfLife]

A stone can be legitimately called "a little rock" or "a small rock" and Petros = a stone.

HELPS Word-studies
4074 Pétros (a masculine noun) – properly, a stone (pebble), such as a small rock found along a pathway. 4074 /Pétros ("small stone") then stands in contrast to 4073 /pétra ("cliff, boulder," Abbott-Smith).

As to all the NON-BIBLICAL SOURCES about Peter "the pope" just ignore them.

And as I explained - this is an asinine argument - given the fact thatr Jesus did NOT speak Greek to the Apostles, but ARAMAIC. The Aramais "Kepha" means "Rock" - not "little" rock.

- I explaimned tpo you that this is the reason that Paul regers to him as "Cephas" - not "Petros" in his letters.
- I explained to you that "Petros" is the masculinie noun - and THAT is wjhhy it was used in the Greek.
- I even presented over a DOZEN Protestant scholars who ALL testify to the Catholic position on Matt. 16:18.

YOU, on the other hand have presented an irrelevant argument about a language that was NOT even used in the conversation.

 

[FHII]

Well, I wrote a response before, but I don't see it... I will try again.

[In response to the notion that Peter receiving power to bind or loose first is irrelevant]:

Maybe not to you.

Yeah, and I stick to that. In Matthew 16 Peter got it and in chapter 18 the rest of the disciples got it. They didn't get more or less. If I gave Peter a dollar on Monday and everyone else a dollar on Wednesday, is Peter's worth more? No, it isn't.


[On whether Peter had preenimant power]:

Yes, He did. "Keys" are a symbol of authority, not power. Caesar had power.

Authority is power. And no, he didn't. He didn't have preeminent power right away. Less than 10 verses after he got it Jesus rebuked him. Furthermore, his power to bind or loose was never greater than that pf the other disciples. He eventually received power over Satan, but not over God nor the other disciples.

Heck... He wasn't even converted yet.

[On Peter's name change being a need of a change of character]:

Peter's status changed, not his character. He was an idiot at tim

Well yes. His status did change. When he received the name change in John 1 he went from a fisherman to a disciple. When the name xhange was confirmed in Mat 16 he went from a disciple to a disciple. Eventually he would become an Apostle.

I disagree that his character didn't change. I agree with you that he was an idiot, but that changed.

A long list of Protestant Bible reference manuals and scholars disagree with your opinion.

Don't care.

[On Ephesians 2:20]:

What part of 'built upon the foundation of the apostles" don't you understand

None. I understand that it was the prophecy and doctrine given to them by God that was the foundation. You think it was their flesh and blood

So now, I believe I have covered everything.

The Church was not founded on Peter. Not even close. If it was founded on anyone it is Jesus. Otherwise, it was Paul who brought the gentiles to Jesus, not Peter.

Peter was a great man and at times its painful to have to downgrade this "idiot" (as Illuminator called him). Of the original 12, he was the boldest. He was wrong alot but because he did something. He wasn't safe... He tried and failed alot. But he was doing things. He actually was the UNOFFICIAL leader until Paul came around.

But the Church is not built on him, he was a rock but not the rock the church was built on, and he wasn't the founder of the Roman Church. In fact, you will be hard pressed to find any Church he founded with the Bible. I believe he did, but you can't name one with a Biblical reference.

The Church was built on the foundation of the Apostles and Prophets. Not them, but their foundation and they all pointed to Christ as the foundation... Not themselves.

 

[Saint of God]

The church is an extension of Christ!

The church is the body of Jesus...not an extension
Ephesians 5:23
For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
Colossians 1:18
And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

Jesus Christ extends his mission, power, and authority to His church of His apostles!

Jesus gives his followers power and authority...
Luke 24:49
And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.

Even His judging!
Matt 19:28

Are you blind? Do you not see 12 apostles judging the 12 tribes of Israel?
28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

His teaching authority!
Matt 28:19 and Jn 20:21
His power to forgive sins!
Jn 20:23
His being the light of the world!
Matt 5:14
His ministry of reconciliation!
2 cor 5:18
His authority in governing the church and administering the kingdom!
Matt 16:18-19 & 18:18 Jn 21:17
Lk 22:29
Apart from me you can do nothing. Jn 15:5
So the church is subject to Christ!
Eph 5:24
Christ shares His glory! 2 thes 1:10 rev 12:1

Jesus finished his mission here on earth...
John 19:30
When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Matt 18:17 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 acts 9:4 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20 acts 2:42 1 Tim 3:15

That is rubbish Jesus finished his ministry on earth, and now it is up to every man to either to accept his teachings or reject his teachings... The apostles only pass on what what Jesus taught them.

Jesus Christ is the rock of salvation!

Then you don't nees another rock. If you do then Christ is insufficient for your salvation.

Peter is the rock that the church is built on by Christ alone!

then you are saying that you need another rock for your salvation.

Lk 22
All apostles But Jesus prays for Peter alone

Evidently Peter was the least...
Luke 9:48
And said unto them, Whosoever shall receive this child in my name receiveth me: and whosoever shall receive me receiveth him that sent me: for he that is least among you all, the same shall be great.

Jn 21:17 Peter entrusted with the flock or church

Nothing here about entrust...it says Feed MY Sheep.Apparently Peter was the weakest of the apostles since Jesus had to te;; him three times...
17 He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep.

Only Peter and His successors have
Jurisdictional authority from Christ to govern the church!

Where is your scripture passage sauing that? Don't be making up stories here...

Already acting in the person of Christ even acting as intermediary!

Foolishnes, Jesus is the only mediator between God and men...
1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

It is Jesus Christ who identifies peter with himself!

Matt 17:24 And when they were come to Capernaum, they that received tribute money came to Peter, and said, Doth not your master pay tribute?

25 He saith, Yes. And when he was come into the houser, Jesus prevented him, saying, What thinkest thou, Simon? of whom do the kings of the earth take custom or tribute? of their own children, or of strangers?

26 Peter saith unto him, Of strangers. Jesus saith unto him, Then are the children free.

27 Notwithstanding, lest we should offend them, go thou to the sea, and cast an hook, and take up the fish that first cometh up; and when thou hast opened his mouth, thou shalt find a piece of money: that take, and give unto them for me and thee.

It is Jesus Christ who identifies peter with himself! Matt 17:27

Jesus Christ gives the keys of the kingdom to peter matt 16:18-19 making him prime minister applying Isa 22:21-22 to peter

It’s Christ who does this

Why is the name of peter even mentioned?

Why does Christ change Peter’s name, God changing a persons name like Abram to Abraham or Jacob to Israel always signifies a mission or ministry!

Why does Christ give him the keys of jurisdictional authority that the prime minister holds under the king to administer the kingdom? Isa 22:21-22

How do you govern the church and administer the kingdom with a confession?

How do you give jurisdictional authority to a confession? (Keys of the kingdom)

How do you give a confession the power to bind and loose?

Jesus identifies all believers with himself...That is why the church is called his body...

also have to explain
Isa 22:21-22 jurisdictional authority of the keys and called father
Matt 28:19 go teach baptize
Jn 20:21-23 same mission power and authority as christ
Eph 2:20 church built on the apostles
Matt 23 successors of Moses have the jurisdictional authority and the power to bind and loose which Christ says must be obeyed, then taken from them matt 21:43 given to Peter and the apostles and their successors
Lk 22:29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;
30 That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat: (plural Peter and his successors)
32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.

You at the one who must explain how Peter sits on 12 thrones...since you are assuming that Jesus is giving Peter only the authority...

Applies only to Peter as “prince of the apostles”!

Where does the scripture say peter is the prince of apostles?

Peter and his successors are the Leader of the apostles and the head of the church until Christ returns!

Where does the scripture say peter and his successors?

Matt 10:2 Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter,

Jesus said the least shall be called the great...
Luke 9:48
And said unto them, Whosoever shall receive this child in my name receiveth me: and whosoever shall receive me receiveth him that sent me: for he that is least among you all, the same shall be great.
Mark 9:35
And he sat down, and called the twelve, and saith unto them, If any man desire to be first, the same shall be last of all, and servant of all.

Lk 22:29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;
30 That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat: (plural Peter and his successors)
32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.

This does not support your foolishness... Peter cannot sit on thrones...

 

[Saint of God]

Lk 22:32 Christ prayed for Peter!

Peter is head of the church on earth in the place of Christ until His return!

Isa 22:21-22 21 And I will clothe him with thy robe, and strengthen him with thy girdle, and I will commit thy government into his hand: and he shall be a father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and to the house of Judah.

22 And the key of the house of David will I lay upon his shoulder; so he shall open, and none shall shut; and he shall shut, and none shall open.

Matt 16:19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Matt 23:1 power and authority of the kingdom known in the keys and binding and loosing, Matt 21:43 kingdom shall be taken from you given to another who will bear fruit. (Peter the apostles in holy church Lk 22:29)

Matt 17:27 Jesus identified peter with himself.

Matt 16:17 Peter alone received revelation from the Father

Lk 22:32 Peter to strengthen his brethren (the apostles)

Jn 21:17 feed my sheep

Peter exercises his authority over the apostles and the church!

Acts 1:15
Acts 3:4
Acts 5:5 5:10
Acts 15:7

ONLY TO PETER CHRIST SAID: THOU ART PETER AND UPON THIS ROCK I WILL BUILT MY CHURCH, AND THE GATES OF HELL SHALL NOT PREVAIL AGAINST IT!Matt 16:18

Peter is the prime minister, father, and head of the church on earth until Christ returns Isa 22:21-22

Seat of peter remains Until Christ returns
Matt 28:19-20


Matthew 5:14
Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.


Rom 14:10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

4 important questions:

1) How do you govern the church and administer the kingdom with a confession?

2) How do you give jurisdictional authority to a confession? (Keys of the kingdom)

3) How do you give a confession the power to bind and loose?

4) why did Christ give the keys to Peter (and only to Peter) keys of jurisdictional authority. Isa 22:21-22 why even bother to mention Peter if he is not involved?

Explain Jn 20:21 Peter and the apostles and their successors have the same mission, ministry, power, and authority as Christ! “As the father sent me, so I send you”!

Matt 28:19 christ communicates his authority to peter and the apostles to teach all nations, baptize all disciples!
Jn 20:21-23 apostles even have authority to forgive sins
Eph 2:20 church built on the apostles
Matt 23 the authority and power of the successors of Moses required to be obeyed are taken from them and given to Peter and the apostles

Jn 21:17
Peter commanded to Feed my sheep:

2 Tim 3: 8 Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.
(Protestants, fundamentalists, etc.)

Christ and His church are one!
God cannot reveal error and the church cannot teach error!

You are spinning the same foolishness over and over, out of context passages. You should be ashamed...You have Peter sitting on 12 thrones...