1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Featured Questions

Discussion in 'Bible Study Forum' started by VictoryinJesus, Sep 27, 2017.

  1. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    7,032
    Likes Received:
    1,949
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    @VJ.
    “Who are the two Witness in Revelation chapter 11”. we will reveal who they are. But first we need to understand the background on these two witness.
    A.They are symbolic, and not the actual Moses, and Elijah, or Enoch.
    B.These two witness are not eschatologically from our or John’s point of view.
    C.These two witness are in the word today.
    With that said let’s look at these two witness point by point, and then give an outline on each point

    Point #1.
    Revelation 11:3 "And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth”.
    a thousand two hundred and threescore days is exactly 42 months or 3 1/2 years, the exact length, or measure of the Lord Jesus ministry, (time, and times, and half a time). And the POWER that fueled this ministry is God himself, the Holy Spirit, the OIL of Zechariah chapter 4. his two witness, meaning sent from God, meaning God's apostle. see men can be sent by men, who are apostles. but these two witness are "his/my" apostles. we know the Lord Jesus is "SENT" from God, but what about John the Baptist? let the record speak. Scripture, John 1:6 "There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe". two things about John. A. he's an apostle of God. how do we know this. the word "sent" here in this verse is the Hebrew word,
    G649 ἀποστέλλω apostello (a-po-stel'-lō) v.
    1. to set apart.
    2. (by implication) to send out.
    3. (properly) to send out on a mission.
    {literally or figuratively}
    KJV: put in, send (away, forth, out), set (at liberty)

    Cognate: 652 apóstolos (from 649 /apostéllō, "to commission, send forth") – properly, someone sent (commissioned), focusing back on the authority (commissioning) of the sender. WHAT DO "COGNATE" means? (of a word) having the same linguistic derivation as another; from the same original word or root
    my source on 652. apostolos is http://biblehub.com/greek/652.htm under HELPS Word-studies

    So the Lord Jesus and John the Baptist are apostles of God. what a revelation.

    their Cloths in sackcloth, meaning preaching repentance. sackcloth means penitence. and the definition of penitence is the action of feeling or showing sorrow and regret for having done wrong; repentance. the first thing out of John the Baptist mouth, "REPENT". Scripture, Matthews 3:1 "In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea, 2 And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. 3 For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight". now the Lord Jesus, Scripture, Matthews 4:16 "From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand". so we have the two witness, John and the Lord Jesus. But lets go on.

    Point#2
    Revelation 11:4 "These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth”.
    Zechariah 4:2 "And said unto me, What seest thou? And I said, I have looked, and behold a candlestick all of gold, with a bowl upon the top of it, and his seven lamps thereon, and seven pipes to the seven lamps, which are upon the top thereof. 3 And two olive trees by it, one upon the right side of the bowl, and the other upon the left side thereof. 4 So I answered and spake to the angel that talked with me, saying, What are these, my lord? 5 Then the angel that talked with me answered and said unto me, Knowest thou not what these be? And I said, No, my lord. 6 Then he answered and spake unto me, saying, This is the word of the LORD unto Zerubbabel,saying, Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith the LORD of hosts". Here Jesus is confirm as one of the two witness, How?. not by his might, or power, but by, "MY spirit". wait a minute, I thought God is a Spirit. so who is this, "spirit"?. any time one sees small case spirit, it either a man or another spirit, an angel. Not by might, nor by power, (meaning not by dunamis power of a man), but by his spirit, small case spirit. meaning a man with God's authority, the exousia power, or his anointed. and it is two olive trees that is anointed with himself, THE HOLY SPIRIT. so clearly the man, Jesus, is one of the two witness. lets see if this anointing is with God.
    Zechariah 4:11 "Then answered I, and said unto him, What are these two olive trees upon the right side of the candlestick and upon the left side thereof?. 12 And I answered again, and said unto him, What be these two olive branches which through the two golden pipes empty the golden oil out of themselves? 13 And he answered me and said, Knowest thou not what these be? And I said, No, my lord. 14 Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth". now from olive trees, to olive branches so clearly, God spirit, small case, is the man Jesus, who is God, his Intrinsic spatial, or the manifestation of God shared in flesh. you have heard of the word, spatial, if not look up the word, Intrinsic also. in order to get a full understanding of who this spirit, "of" God is. The "of", tell you who he is. the OBJECTIVE or the ARM of God. Now we know for a fact that the Lord Jesus the MAN, NOT THE SPIRIT HIMSELF, but , "OF" God, his (Intrinsic spatial with flesh/body), is that witness. now, with that knowledge, that just bring John into the picture even more. because he witness to that CANDLESTICK. I suggest a re-reading of Zechariah chapters 3, & 4 to get a good picture of the two witness.

    Lets recap. The angel that spoke with Zechariah said that the two Olive trees are the two anointed ones. Let’s see who was anointed by God, and who God anoints with his Spirit. A. we know that the Lord Jesus, born as a man was anointed from birth. Was John born with the Spirit.B. Luke 1:13-15 "But the angel said unto him, Fear not, Zacharias: for thy prayer is heard; and thy wife Elisabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John. And thou shalt have joy and gladness; and many shall rejoice at his birth. For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb”. at that time the only two men who was Spiritually alive to God was John and the Lord Jesus. Both had the Spirit from birth.

    next time verse 5 & 6 and then make the comparison of Moses and the Lord Jesus, Elijah and John the baptist.

    be blessed.
     
  2. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

    Messages:
    27,964
    Likes Received:
    9,413
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States Minor Outlying Islands
    isn't this "3 and 2" thing done elsewhere in Scripture too?
     
  3. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    7,032
    Likes Received:
    1,949
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    @VJ, Revelation 11:5 "And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed”.
    Many Christians and others, think that the fire out of the witness mouth is actual physical fire. No, scripture, Jeremiah 5:14 "Wherefore thus saith the LORD God of hosts, Because ye speak this word, behold, I will make my words in thy mouth fire, and this people wood, and it shall devour them”. if one would read that 5th chapter of Jeremiah, one will see who this fire, the word of God devoured. It was false prophets. And the word of God exposed then for who they was, so did the Lord Jesus burned them, (the false prophets) up, by the word of God. scripture, 1 Corinthians 3:13 "Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is". John also had a fiery mouth, the truth, which made him a martyr also. And please note: a martyr is also called a “witness”. this is the manner, in which, they will be killed. By the truth, the word of God will the false prophets will be killed, and like wise by telling the truth the word of God these witness will be killed, literally. This fulfills the scripture, Genesis 3:15 "And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel”.

    Revelation 11:6 "These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.
    Now we will look at the power these two witness have. The answer is within the scripture itself. A. “have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy”. this is in reference to Elijah. B. “have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues”. this is in reference to Moses. But are they, the two witness, these two men? No, they all died, only the similarities to theses two men Moses and Elijah. We know without a doubt that John the Baptist is one of the witness. Coming down from the mount of the transfiguration, the Lord’s disciples asked him a question. Scripture, Matthew 17:10-13 "And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elias must first come? And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things. But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them. Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist”. so John the Baptist is the Elijah that came "already". Now a question for you, “can the Lord Jesus lie?”. no, so Elijah had come, which was John the baptist, how did John come as Elijah. Let the scripture speak, Luke 1:17 "And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord”. in the spirit is the ways, or character of Elijah. not Elijah himself. For John wore a hairy coat, and ate honey locusts. Matthew 3:4 "And the same John had his raiment of camel's hair, and a leathern girdle about his loins; and his meat was locusts and wild honey”. so John was the forerunner to the Lord Jesus as, as, as the prophet Elijah, scripture, Malachi 4:5 & 6 "Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD: And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse” now once again Luke 1:17 "And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord”. these are identical verses. Without a doubt the prophet John is the Elijah to come before the LORD. Just a couple more scriptures to put the icing on the cake. Mark 1:2 "As it is written in the prophets, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee”. we know that it is the prophet Elijah, who is John the Baptist, but were in the scriptures is this written? Answer, Malachi 3:1 "Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts”. by now one must began to learn who the witness is?, John the baptist.

    ********************** The Lord Jesus and Moses ********************
    Here are some compiled similarities between the Lord Jesus the Christ and the prophet Moses.
    1. both have a close relationship with God. Moses a face to face with barrier Physical (human) meeting. Jesus a Spiritual Face to face. John 1:18 "No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

    2. both were ordained by God to deliver his people from bondage. Moses Physical bondage, the Lord Jesus Spiritual bondage

    3. both Moses and the Lord Jesus were saved from certain death when they were small children, while most other Israelite male children of the same age and place of birth were murdered.
    the Lord Jesus (Matthews 2:16-18). Moses (Exodus 1:15-22 chapter 2:1-10)

    4. both the Lord Jesus and Moses refused the possibility to become rulers in their age. Satan offered Jesus the rule over the kingdoms of this world (Matthew 4:8-9), but Jesus rejected that offer and chose to suffer and die for the sake of the people of the world. Moses acted in a similar manner; he had been raised as a son in a royal family, and he could have had a lavish lifestyle, but he chose differently. he suffered for the people sake.

    5. both the Lord Jesus and Moses were "called out of Egypt".

    6. both Moses and the Lord Jesus interceded for Israel, not allowing the destruction of the nation

    7. both the Lord Jesus and Moses "mediated" between Israel, (the church in the wilderness), and the true God.

    8. both the Lord Jesus and Moses were Lawgivers. Moses the carnal Law of Stone. Jesus the Spiritual Law of the heart/Lively stones.

    9. both had water connections. The Nile (water) into blood/red. Water into wine/red

    10. both died, and no man knows where their GRAVE are.

    11. both had foster mother. Moses, king of Egypt Daughter, the Lord Jesus, his surrogate mother Mary.

    12. both talked to God on mountains tops.

    there are other similarities between Moses and the Lord Jesus. but understand the book of Revelation is signified.

    hope this helped. peace in Christ Jesus
     
  4. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    7,032
    Likes Received:
    1,949
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Revelation 11:7 "And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them”.
    John the baptist and the Lord Jesus Christ, after the 3 and 1/2 years of their witness/ministries will be killed. John by the hands of Herod, Matthew 14:3-12 "For Herod had laid hold on John, and bound him, and put him in prison for Herodias' sake, his brother Philip's wife. For John said unto him, It is not lawful for thee to have her. And when he would have put him to death, he feared the multitude, because they counted him as a prophet. But when Herod's birthday was kept, the daughter of Herodias danced before them, and pleased Herod. Whereupon he promised with an oath to give her whatsoever she would ask. And she, being before instructed of her mother, said, Give me here John Baptist's head in a charger. And the king was sorry: nevertheless for the oath's sake, and them which sat with him at meat, he commanded it to be given her. And he sent, and beheaded John in the prison. And his head was brought in a charger, and given to the damsel: and she brought it to her mother. And his disciples came, and took up the body, and buried it, and went and told Jesus”.

    The Lord Jesus by the hands of Pontius Pilate the governor. John 18:37-40 "Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice. Pilate saith unto him, What is truth? And when he had said this, he went out again unto the Jews, and saith unto them, I find in him no fault at all. But ye have a custom, that I should release unto you one at the passover: will ye therefore that I release unto you the King of the Jews? Then cried they all again, saying, Not this man, but Barabbas. Now Barabbas was a robber”.

    peace in Christ Jesus.
     
    Helen and ScottA like this.
  5. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    7,032
    Likes Received:
    1,949
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Revelation 11:8 "And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified”.
    Sodom and Egypt have already been identified. dead bodies shall lie in the street is a symbol of a violent death, which both John abd the Lord Jesus suffered. John, beheaded, the Lord Jesus crucified. The Great city called Sodom and Egypt spiritually is the synagogue of Satan.

    Revelation 11:9 "And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.
    Proper burial, Neither John nor the Lord Jesus was not given proper burials. nor was they put in graves, but in tombs. Mark 6:29 "And when his disciples heard of it, they came and took up his corpse, and laid it in a tomb". a body without a head is not a proper burial. now the Lord Jesus, neither was his body ready for proper burial, Luke 23:52 "This man went unto Pilate, and begged the body of Jesus. And he took it down, and wrapped it in linen, and laid it in a sepulchre that was hewn in stone, wherein never man before was laid. And that day was the preparation, and the sabbath drew on. And the women also, which came with him from Galilee, followed after, and beheld the sepulchre, and how his body was laid. And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment". the Lord Jesus body was quickly removed from the cross and placed in a tomb without the spices and proper burial ointments. so neither had a proper burial, and both was put in "tombs" and not into the ground, under dirt.
     
  6. VictoryinJesus

    VictoryinJesus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,769
    Likes Received:
    4,105
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    That is a lot to digest! I hope you don't mind; I printed all post that pertain to the two witnesses, so I can study. It is impossible to study from post. Thank you.
     
  7. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    7,032
    Likes Received:
    1,949
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    yes, study with the Holy Spirit guiding you. and in the name of the Lord Jesus thank you. and may these post help you. all glory and praise to the Lord Jesus, God almighty.
     
    pia likes this.
  8. VictoryinJesus

    VictoryinJesus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,769
    Likes Received:
    4,105
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    101, are you saying:
    Revelation 11:2-3 KJV
    [2] But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months. [3] And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

    Has already happened?
     
  9. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    7,032
    Likes Received:
    1,949
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    VJ, a measure here is not a physical measurement in length. but the measure of their religious service, meaning in Spirit and in truth. notice the : colon there. the Gentiles will be given the Holy Spirit, after the two witness ministry which is 3 1/2 years, or 42 month. or the thousand two hundred and threescore days. see the measure is Spiritual, the out pouring of the Spiritual gifts, John 3:34 "For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him". measure: G3358 μέτρον metron (me'-tron) n.
    1. a measure (“metre”).
    2. (by implication) a limited portion (degree).
    to us is the Spirit measured. hence the gifts.
    the gentiles, as well as the Jews receive the Spirit. the outer court is with the cerimonal Laws.
     
  10. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    7,032
    Likes Received:
    1,949
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    VJ this might help, the temple is not physical. 1 Corinthians 6:19 "What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?”. so what John was to measure is worship service. The alter of sacrifice is our lips, supportive scripture, Hebrews 13:15 "By him therefore let us offer the sacrifice of praise to God continually, that is, the fruit of our lips giving thanks to his name”. For God seek those who worship him in spirit and in truth (see John 4:23 & 24).
     
  11. VictoryinJesus

    VictoryinJesus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,769
    Likes Received:
    4,105
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States

    I understand(I hear truth in some of what you share) and at the same, I don't understand. No offense but being where you are is like going from 2 to 1000. I can't jump that far. The Spirit teaches me in baby steps I can get: one building upon another. To me what He shows is profound. To others it may be milk. I won't say you are wrong. You may be correct. I will say I read things in the book of revelation that clearly tells me what I have always been told it says, may not be true. Like chapter twelve. That is slightly distressing since it makes me wonder what else I have been told that doesn't line up with His word.

    I do question John being spiritually alive; born from above. Yes, he was anointed and filled with the Holy Ghost to prepare the way, but, others in the OT were given the spirit for Gods purposes also. I realize the Spirit came and went then. But Christ is the firstfruits.

    1 Corinthians 15:20 KJV
    [20] But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

    1 Corinthians 15:23 KJV
    [23] But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

    Jeremiah 32:8-14 KJV
    [8] So Hanameel mine uncle's son came to me in the court of the prison according to the word of the Lord , and said unto me, Buy my field, I pray thee, that is in Anathoth, which is in the country of Benjamin: for the right of inheritance is thine, and the redemption is thine; buy it for thyself. Then I knew that this was the word of the Lord . [9] And I bought the field of Hanameel my uncle's son, that was in Anathoth, and weighed him the money, even seventeen shekels of silver. [10] And I subscribed the evidence, and sealed it , and took witnesses, and weighed him the money in the balances. [11] So I took the evidence of the purchase, both that which was sealed according to the law and custom, and that which was open: [12] And I gave the evidence of the purchase unto Baruch the son of Neriah, the son of Maaseiah, in the sight of Hanameel mine uncle's son , and in the presence of the witnesses that subscribed the book of the purchase, before all the Jews that sat in the court of the prison. [13] And I charged Baruch before them, saying, [14] Thus saith the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel; Take these evidences, this evidence of the purchase, both which is sealed, and this evidence which is open; and put them in an earthen vessel, that they may continue many days.
     
  12. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    7,032
    Likes Received:
    1,949
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    First thing, thanks for the response, second don't cut yourself short. your brain learn just as mine or anyone else. but we all learn a different rate. so never put yourself down,ok. it took me years to learn this, I just hope I can help someone to learn quicker, and more than me. so that I can learn for you. now your concerns.

    #1. "I do question John being spiritually alive; born from above. Yes, he was anointed and filled with the Holy Ghost to prepare the way, but, others in the OT were given the spirit for Gods purposes also. I realize the Spirit came and went then. But Christ is the firstfruits". Good question, but John was BORN WITH THE SPIRIT FROM BIRTH, let's check the record. Luke 1:15 "For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb". he had the Spirit from his birth until he physically died. now what you said is "firstfruit". this is thr resurrection, which Jesus is the firstfruit of. but not while he was physically alive in natural flesh. only after his death.

    #2. "1 Corinthians 15:23 KJV [23] But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming". here is the ORDER, the key word to understand is "at his coming". let's check the record, Revelation 20:4 & 5 "And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection". THAT'S THE ORDER VJ. before the 1,000 years the righteous, and after the 1,000 years the wicked. these are the two resurrection or order of resurrection, check out Daniel to confirm this, Daniel 12:2.

    hoped this helped.
     
  13. VictoryinJesus

    VictoryinJesus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,769
    Likes Received:
    4,105
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    I am not putting myself down: that would be complaining the LORD is not feeding me fast enough. I am thankful for His willingness to teach and guide me and all that He brings into the light! To be honest; my whole life no one shown interest...until Him. I am grateful He said: that one is MINE!



     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2017
  14. tabletalk

    tabletalk Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    790
    Likes Received:
    345
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Need feedback/interpretations of these verses from Romans 5:

    13. (For until the law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law. 14. Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come."

    Question: What kind of sins would these be? Lessor sins?

    (remember; *It's not the apple on the tree, it's the pair underneath* )
     
  15. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    7,032
    Likes Received:
    1,949
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    GINOLJC, not sins, but sin. sins, with the "s" on the end are individual acts or manifestation of "sin". and the likeness of sin is a representation, the first Adam was our representative, and in him came death unto us who is after him. scripture, 1 Corinthians 15:21 & 22 "For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive". now, let's back this up, 2 Corinthians 5:15 "And that he (meaning Christ) died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again".

    and the "figure", or "Type" of Adam that is to come, is the image of God shared in flesh. the Last Adam, who is the NEW MAN, or now our new representative, without sin.
     
  16. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    7,032
    Likes Received:
    1,949
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    GINOLJC, @ VJ. here is something that might help you out. the bible will interpreted itself if we let it. see the word measure here is spiritual. lets give the example from the bible. John 15:4 "Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me". Abide here, is the Greek word, G3306 μένω meno (me'-nō) v.
    1. to remain.
    2. (in a place) to abide, to stay.
    3. (of expectancy) to await.
    4. (in a state) to continue.
    5. (in a task) to endure.
    6. (of a relationship) to exist permanently in, inseparably united (inhere, adhere).

    now let's go to the OT and see what it means. Malachi 3:1 & 2 "Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts. But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap". these verse are loaded with information. but we want to zero in on "Abide" here. it's the Hebrew word, H3557 כּוּל kuwl (kool) v.
    1. (properly) to keep in.
    2. (hence) to measure.
    3. (figuratively) to maintain (in various senses).

    both word basically means the same thing, but look at definition #2 here, "to measure". there is our word. what do it mean? let the bible answer, this is a well known verse. listen, Daniel 5:25-29 "And this is the writing that was written, MENE, MENE, TEKEL, UPHARSIN. This is the interpretation of the thing: MENE; God hath numbered thy kingdom, and finished it TEKEL; Thou art weighed in the balances, and art found wanting. PERES; Thy kingdom is divided, and given to the Medes and Persians. Then commanded Belshazzar, and they clothed Daniel with scarlet, and put a chain of gold about his neck, and made a proclamation concerning him, that he should be the third ruler in the kingdom". VJ read Gill's commentary on this and you'll see what abode/measure means. now that you have read Gill's commentary, notice John was instructed to measure the temple, not the city, but the temple. what is being said here. well first lets see what or who is the temple. Revelation 3:12 "Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name". a pillar in the temple? "him", that overcometh?, a pillar is a "him". see it now VJ.

    only let the bible interpenetrate itself, we don't have to nothing but LEARN.

    Pease in Christ Jesus.
     
    VictoryinJesus likes this.
  17. VictoryinJesus

    VictoryinJesus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,769
    Likes Received:
    4,105
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Question: Isaiah 34-35 ??

    Isaiah 34:1-17 KJV
    [1] Come near, ye nations, to hear; and hearken, ye people: let the earth hear, and all that is therein; the world, and all things that come forth of it. [2] For the indignation of the Lord is upon all nations, and his fury upon all their armies: he hath utterly destroyed them, he hath delivered them to the slaughter. [3] Their slain also shall be cast out, and their stink shall come up out of their carcases, and the mountains shall be melted with their blood. [4] And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree. [5] For my sword shall be bathed in heaven: behold, it shall come down upon Idumea, and upon the people of my curse, to judgment. [6] The sword of the Lord is filled with blood, it is made fat with fatness, and with the blood of lambs and goats, with the fat of the kidneys of rams: for the Lord hath a sacrifice in Bozrah, and a great slaughter in the land of Idumea. [7] And the unicorns shall come down with them, and the bullocks with the bulls; and their land shall be soaked with blood, and their dust made fat with fatness. [8] For it is the day of the Lord's vengeance, and the year of recompences for the controversy of Zion.

    [9] And the streams thereof shall be turned into pitch, and the dust thereof into brimstone, and the land thereof shall become burning pitch. [10] It shall not be quenched night nor day; the smoke thereof shall go up for ever: from generation to generation it shall lie waste; none shall pass through it for ever and ever. [11] But the cormorant and the bittern shall possess it; the owl also and the raven shall dwell in it: and he shall stretch out upon it the line of confusion, and the stones of emptiness. (Sounds like the definition I have always heard for: hell)

    [12] They shall call the nobles thereof to the kingdom, but none shall be there, and all her princes shall be nothing. [13] And thorns shall come up in her palaces, nettles and brambles in the fortresses thereof: and it shall be an habitation of dragons, and a court for owls. [14] The wild beasts of the desert shall also meet with the wild beasts of the island, and the satyr shall cry to his fellow; the screech owl also shall rest there, and find for herself a place of rest. [15] There shall the great owl make her nest, and lay, and hatch, and gather under her shadow: there shall the vultures also be gathered, every one with her mate. [16] Seek ye out of the book of the Lord , and read: no one of these shall fail, none shall want her mate: for my mouth it hath commanded, and his spirit it hath gathered them. [17] And he hath cast the lot for them, and his hand hath divided it unto them by line: they shall possess it for ever, from generation to generation shall they dwell therein.

    Isaiah 35:1-10 KJV
    [1] The wilderness and the solitary place shall be glad for them; and the desert shall rejoice, and blossom as the rose. [2] It shall blossom abundantly, and rejoice even with joy and singing: the glory of Lebanon shall be given unto it, the excellency of Carmel and Sharon, they shall see the glory of the Lord , and the excellency of our God. [3] Strengthen ye the weak hands, and confirm the feeble knees. [4] Say to them that are of a fearful heart, Be strong, fear not: behold, your God will come with vengeance, even God with a recompence; he will come and save you. [5] Then the eyes of the blind shall be opened, and the ears of the deaf shall be unstopped. [6] Then shall the lame man leap as an hart, and the tongue of the dumb sing: for in the wilderness shall waters break out, and streams in the desert. [7] And the parched ground shall become a pool, and the thirsty land springs of water: (in) the habitation of dragons, where each lay, shall be grass with reeds and rushes. [8] And an highway shall be there, and a way, and it shall be called The way of holiness; the unclean shall not pass over it; but it shall be for those: the wayfaring men, though fools, shall not err therein . [9] No lion shall be there, nor any ravenous beast shall go up thereon, it shall not be found there; but the redeemed shall walk there : [10] And the ransomed of the Lord shall return, and come to Zion with songs and everlasting joy upon their heads: they shall obtain joy and gladness, and sorrow and sighing shall flee away.

    Job 28: 7 There is a path which no fowl knoweth, and which the vulture's eyes hath not seen:
    The Path of the LORD, Jesus Christ. "The way of holiness"

    One question particular pertains to "eagles" Matthew 24:28: For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

    Luke 17: 36-37: Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2017
  18. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    7,032
    Likes Received:
    1,949
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    @VJ, I will try and keep it simple and straight to the point.
    #1. One question particular pertains to "eagles" Matthew 24:28: For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
    Answer, Ezekiel 14:21 "For thus saith the Lord GOD; How much more when I send my four sore judgments upon Jerusalem, the sword, and the famine, and the noisome beast, and the pestilence, to cut off from it man and beast?". these four Judgments is at the coming of the Lord. Matthew 24:27 & 28 "For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together". Ezekiel 33:23 "Then the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, 24 Son of man, they that inhabit those wastes of the land of Israel speak, saying, Abraham was one, and he inherited the land: but we are many; the land is given us for inheritance. 25 Wherefore say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Ye eat with the blood, and lift up your eyes toward your idols, and shed blood: and shall ye possess the land? 26 Ye stand upon your sword, ye work abomination, and ye defile every one his neighbour's wife: and shall ye possess the land? 27 Say thou thus unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; As I live, surely they that are in the wastes shall fall by the sword, and him that is in the open field will I give to the beasts to be devoured, and they that be in the forts and in the caves shall die of the pestilence. 28 For I will lay the land most desolate, and the pomp of her strength shall cease; and the mountains of Israel shall be desolate, that none shall pass through. 29 Then shall they know that I am the LORD, when I have laid the land most desolate because of all their abominations which they have committed". desolation of abomination in the Land, God sends Judgments.

    Now the eagles. Ezekiel 39:4 "Thou shalt fall upon the mountains of Israel, thou, and all thy bands, and the people that is with thee: I will give thee unto the ravenous birds of every sort, and to the beasts of the field to be devoured". This was always reckoned a very sore judgment and dreadful calamity, not to have a burial, but to be exposed to birds and beasts of prey. let's ee this plainly. Jeremiah 16:4 "They shall die of grievous deaths; they shall not be lamented; neither shall they be buried; but they shall be as dung upon the face of the earth: and they shall be consumed by the sword, and by famine; and their carcases shall be meat for the fowls of heaven, and for the beasts of the earth".

    death and destruction on the wicked. these sore Judgments are found in Ezekiel chapter 14, please read it. and revealed in the last day in Revelation chapter 4 and chapter 6.

    peace in Christ
     
  19. VictoryinJesus

    VictoryinJesus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,769
    Likes Received:
    4,105
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    I will read Ezekiel 14, and the last day in Revelation. I ask a crazy question: Did Jesus Christ become meat for the fowls and beast? By eatting His flesh and drinking His blood; that which is unclean...is made clean. Fowls and beast. Us. The believer.

    The anti-Christ; the number of the beast.
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2017
    bbyrd009 likes this.
  20. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    7,032
    Likes Received:
    1,949
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    first, thanks for the response. no, Christ is not for the fowls and beasts. note this VJ, the Lord Jesus just finish feeding the people with NATURAL Food and Drink. but what he was telling them instead of pursuing natural life, one need to acquire everlasting food. John 6:45 "It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me". (HE JUST TOLD THEM WHAT TO EAT). Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father. Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life". how do one believe? scripture, Jeremiah 15:16 "Thy words were found, and I did eat them; and thy word was unto me the joy and rejoicing of mine heart: for I am called by thy name, O LORD God of hosts". TO EAT, OR THE ACT OF EATING, and DRINKING, here, is the consumption of the word of God. notice, the Lord Jesus used the Son of Man, who is Spiritual. listen, John 6:53 "Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you". Son of Man is spirit, not carnal. son of God is carnal, meaning NATURAL LIFE. understand Jesus the Christ is the WORD, and these, eating and drinking is not to be understood of a corporeal eating, or drink of them, but having a principle of spiritual life. see to eat, or eating is the consumption of spiritual things, the word of God, TO BELIEVE. the word of God is spirit, and LIFE. John 6:63 "It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life". we digested the word of LIFE.

    so, no, not natural flesh, nor natural blood, to eat, but spiritual food, and spiritual drink, which is the Lord Jesus, the Word of God. his flesh is meat indeed. and strong meat is an offense to a weak mind. meaning one cannot understand. scripture, 1 Corinthians 3:2 "I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able". Hebrews 5:12 "For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat". see drinking NATURAL blood, and eating NATURAL flesh is an offense to those who don't UNDERSTAND. but we who are strong in the word of God understand the things of God.

    1 Corinthians 10:2-4 "And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; And did all eat the same spiritual meat; And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ".

    hoped this helped.
     
Loading...