"Raise the dead"

[bbyrd009]

i was struck by the "fourth stage civilization" thing, where "beliefs are not taken into account" or whatever, in connection here. The "1" is really a 4 onsite, i don't feel like fixing it

1. The fourth stage of natural state formation is like the third with as main distinction that it has no central government. The citizens of a fourth stage state operate by means of a shared conviction. The actions and development of a fourth-stage state are not culled by the opinions or visions of a single governing body but are rather cultivated by a defining constitution much like the DNA of a multi-cellular organism. Among animals fourth stage states are common: bees and ants and the likes operate like that (like a "super-organism"), and in the human world perhaps the international "science-world" could be viewed as a fourth stage state (not based on what it knows but on how it works), and nowadays, of course, the Internet and most spectacularly blockchain technology. In literature this stage is celebrated as the Body of Christ, a.k.a. Ecclesia, or the New Jerusalem, obviously not to be confused with any formal church or religion. A fourth stage state can only be sustained when it is based on natural law; a law that doesn't change and is not affected by anybody's beliefs.

The amazing name Abraham: meaning and etymology

man, this stuff is deep!
"From Abraham onward the Old Testament deals with the intensification of international exchange (more and more sharing and less and less hoarding; hence the era of the great empires) and obviously culminates at the level of personal transcendence (no more self) and full dedication to exchange (only sharing). Hence Paul wrote that Jesus (making the ultimate sacrifice) was the fulfillment of the Abrahamic covenant (Romans 4:11, Galatians 3:7).

Abraham the border man

It should be emphasized that despite the claims of Jews, Christians and Muslims alike, neither Jesus nor Abraham has anything to do with any formal religion. Abraham marks the complexity level of interaction and exchange, which on the level of matter and energy is described by the second law of thermodynamics: all concentrations of energy must eventually level out (Isaiah 40:4). Jesus not only represents ultimate sacrifice but also the only thing people from all variously specified cultural backgrounds (low entropy) must eventually agree on (high entropy), namely the summing up of all natural law, unified by what scientists label the Grand Unified Theory and theologians know as the Word Of God.

Abraham is not a border-maker; he is a border-breaker..."

 

[BreadOfLife]

Self absorb much?

I noticed you didn't answer the question . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

ah, no, way worse than that, misdefined
or someone does, ya; see, Paul's definition of doctrine is just not your definition of doctrine, he did not mean "laws that i have my wife needlepoint up and put in a frame, after the church has made them mando beliefs."

The doctrine of the deity of Christ is
fine in principle, but made into a bludgeon to DQ any seeker who does not conform to the lexicon, see, just like you are doing right now, "you can't be seeking Christ because you are not saying it like i am,"

and etc. Two Greeks came to worship Jesus, and He hid from them

Another non-answer . . .

 

[101G]

Addressing the OP. @VJ.

The blind receive their sight, and the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up

Now you do know that the raised dead is "RESTORED" and not resurrected, right.

Peace in Christ Yeshua.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Addressing the OP. @VJ.

Now you do know that the raised dead is "RESTORED" and not resurrected, right.

Peace in Christ Yeshua.

No, I don't know. Can you explain the difference? I do recognize something is off...something missing I don't fully see yet?

 

[101G]

no problems. raising the dead is simply restoring life. this was also done in the OT by the prophet Elijah, Read 1 Kings 17:17-24 the widows Son. just as the Lord Jesus raised another widow son at Nain. also the daughter of Jairus and Lazarus. see there is no resurrection of any dead before the Lord Jesus who is the FIRST born from the dead. see, those died again.
understand a resurrection of one's body is a quickening or the change. not so in these cases.

peace in Christ Yeshua.

 

[bbyrd009]

Another non-answer . . .

ah, wasn't for you then i guess, sorry

 

[bbyrd009]

no problems. raising the dead is simply restoring life. this was also done in the OT by the prophet Elijah, Read 1 Kings 17:17-24 the widows Son. just as the Lord Jesus raised another widow son at Nain. also the daughter of Jairus and Lazarus. see there is no resurrection of any dead before the Lord Jesus who is the FIRST born from the dead. see, those died again.
understand a resurrection of one's body is a quickening or the change. not so in these cases.

peace in Christ Yeshua.

iow they could not have been literally dead as is supposed, but symbology is being employed bc they were dead in the way that matters to God, spiritually dead

 

[101G]

iow they could not have been literally dead as is supposed, but symbology is being employed bc they were dead in the way that matters to God, spiritually dead

ERROR, naturally, because they was in a state of decomposition. that kind of dead.

Peace in Christ Yeshua.

 

[bbyrd009]

because they was in a state of decomposition. that kind of dead.

yesm, i know you want to take that literally too, but see that that has an obvious symbolic meaning also, even if they "stank," see.

again, not presenting facts that need to be accepted or rejected as truth, so much as presenting other reflections that might be contemplated for their fruit, ok

obviously if someone was so dead they stank, reanimating them would be resurrecting them from the dead, regardless of your semantics

 

[VictoryinJesus]

no problems. raising the dead is simply restoring life. this was also done in the OT by the prophet Elijah, Read 1 Kings 17:17-24 the widows Son. just as the Lord Jesus raised another widow son at Nain. also the daughter of Jairus and Lazarus. see there is no resurrection of any dead before the Lord Jesus who is the FIRST born from the dead. see, those died again.
understand a resurrection of one's body is a quickening or the change. not so in these cases.

peace in Christ Yeshua.

I must not still understand. Restoring life and the OT references you provided, makes sense. What I have a hard time with and I am asking Him for help: the first and second resurrection. When Christ came out of the grave, others also came out of the grave and walked and were seen by many. We assume these were dead corpses stumbling around like a genuine walking dead account. (Or that is always what I have heard). But, they would have been as Christ; not corpses?

Then the second resurrection: doesn't it happen every day when a believer is resurrected (restored) to life "in Christ"? I have always been told to wait and look for the second resurrection. Future. As in not happened yet but on the horizon.

 

[101G]

I must not still understand. Restoring life and the OT references you provided, makes sense. What I have a hard time with and I am asking Him for help: the first and second resurrection. When Christ came out of the grave, others also came out of the grave and walked and were seen by many. We assume these were dead corpses stumbling around like a genuine walking dead account. (Or that is always what I have heard). But, they would have been as Christ; not corpses.

Then the second resurrection: doesn't it happen every day when a believer is resurrected (restored) to life "in Christ"? I have always been told to wait and look for the second resurrection. Future. As in not happened yet but on the horizon.

glad you asked that, Matthew 27:52 "And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose". key word arose, not resurrect. listen, 1 Corinthians 15:37 & 38 "And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain: 38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body". Matthew 27:52 said bodies of the SAINTS. not God given or resurrected bodies.
PCY

 

[101G]

PS, VJ. Matthew 27:53 "And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many". so they was not the walking dead as some today think.
PCY

 

[VictoryinJesus]

glad you asked that, Matthew 27:52 "And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose". key word arose, not resurrect. listen, 1 Corinthians 15:37 & 38 "And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain: 38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body". Matthew 27:52 said bodies of the SAINTS. not God given or resurrected bodies.
PCY

Job 19:25-27 KJV
[25] For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth: [26] And though after my skin worms destroy this body , yet in my flesh shall I see God: [27] Whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold, and not another; though my reins be consumed within me.

?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

The question may be: what day did Job speak of? Was Job one of those saints that rose out of the grave after Christ's resurrection, or does Job wait for another day?

 

[101G]

Job 19:25-27 KJV
[25] For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth: [26] And though after my skin worms destroy this body , yet in my flesh shall I see God: [27] Whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold, and not another; though my reins be consumed within me.

?

yes, we all will stand before the judgment seat, and see God/JESUS, this is the ressurection. but did not the prophet David also say the same?. Psalms 16:10 "For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption". and the apostle Peter quoted it, Acts 2:31 "He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption. 32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses".

now the latter day of job speaking, Zechariah 14:3 & 4 "Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle. 4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south". well here is the FIRST resurrection. 1 Thessalonians 4:16 "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first". but keep this in mind, Revelation 20:4 & 5 "And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years 5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection".

so we know that the Second resurrection is AFTER the thousand years. but the thousand years don't start until he returns, which brings us back to 1 Thessalonians 4:16.
PCY

 

[Ally.s.j]

Matthew 25:43 KJV
[43] I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.


Luke 7:20-23 KJV
[20] When the men were come unto him, they said, John Baptist hath sent us unto thee, saying, Art thou he that should come? or look we for another? [21] And in that same hour he cured many of their infirmities and plagues, and of evil spirits; and unto many that were blind he gave sight. [22] Then Jesus answering said unto them, Go your way, and tell John what things ye have seen and heard; how that the blind see, the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, the deaf hear, the dead are raised, to the poor the gospel is preached. [23] And blessed is he , whosoever shall not be offended in me.

Why did Jesus not do the work of going to visit John in prison?

I am just now learning what "apologetics" mean. State what you believe and then defend it. Christ words were about the Spiritual and not the physical. Jesus' miracles demonstrated His deity through signs of the physical which were put on display in the visible.

Christ ministry was not about the physical prison John was held in.Every promise the Lord made He has kept:

When someone is drawn to Salvation and life in Christ: the dead are raised. When someone hears God speak: the deaf hear. When some one sees the light of truth: the blind see. When a non-believer is converted and translated into the Kingdom of God: the sick(wounded) are healed.The lame walk. The dumb speak.Those captive and in prison are set free.

Acts 26:8 KJV
[8] Why should it be thought a thing incredible with you, that God should raise the dead?

It happens every day.
The dead are raised.
The blind receive sight.
The deaf hear.
The dumb speak.
The naked are clothed with righteousness. The hungry are fed. The fearful (like Legion) receive a sound mind. We walk by faith and not by sight. It is spiritual. To say these promises do not happen every single day and give God the glory, is to focus on the physical and not what is unseen.The flesh is offended and we doubt. It is a lie. We walk by faith, not by sight.

Matthew 11:5-6 KJV
[5] The blind receive their sight, and the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, and the poor have the gospel preached to them. [6] And blessed is he , whosoever shall not be offended in me.

VictoryinJesus

I get what you are saying. But thats not what the bible tells us. It tells us to raise the dead heal the sick set the captives free to cast out demons
And its for real. Just like Jesus did. Not saying there not another spiritual dimention to it. As you words are life and death.

The other point is . If healing the sick reveals Jesus diety. What does it reveal when we do it?
It reveals our ability to represent Him fully on the earth right now. As He is so are WE. Nothing is impossible to you. Anything you ask in my name and dont doubt in your heart. Boom.

 

[Ally.s.j]

After reading this nonsense it is glaringly apparent that you don't even understand what Apologetics is.
That's why you claim that it is an "unbiblical" practice.

I suggest you study Scripture a little harder . . .

And you dont need to oh mighty teacher of all knowldge. What a comiedian you are. You cant tell us if you layed hands on the sick or not. Its a secret. I dont give you any credit after our discussion and you empty replies. You have nothing to bring to any table I am at.

 

[Ally.s.j]

Thank you for that insane rant.
Didn't YOU say, in post #2 that apologetics was "unscriptural"??

"understand that this is unscriptural, ok, no where in Scripture are you called to defend your faith to strangers, that is not who you even have available to "witness" to, even if you wanted to for some odd reason"

Hmmmm, I thought that was you . . .

You say plenty that is unscriptural and here you are acussing other of the same. You said you wont tell us about laying hands on the sick as it would be boasting. That is utter nonsense. and unscriptural. So stop lecturing others on what you do.

 

[Ally.s.j]

Then Sacred Scripture is "Satanic" to you??
Good luck trying to convince the Author of that . . .

like a stuck record now. You said that to me. Your twisting his post again to suit your little agenda. Stop twisting what people say. He s clearly talking about catholisisim twisting scripture and people like you.