Rapture, Prophecy, Church, and the Nation of Israel- Last Generation

[n2thelight]

The coming of the Holy Spirit upon Israel is prophetic.

Stranger

So when Christ told them not 2 leave until they received the Holy Spirit,could He had returned before then?

 

[Stranger]

So when Christ told them not 2 leave until they received the Holy Spirit,could He had returned before then?

Once Christ left, the promise of the rapture was in place. Yes, the rapture could have occurred before then. Just because we know it didn't, doesn't mean it couldn't have.

Stranger

 

[n2thelight]

Once Christ left, the promise of the rapture was in place. Yes, the rapture could have occurred before then. Just because we know it didn't, doesn't mean it couldn't have.

Stranger

If that's the case,Christ would have been a liar.

 

[Stranger]

If that's the case,Christ would have been a liar.

Why?

Stranger

 

[n2thelight]

Why?

Stranger

Because had He returned before they received the Holy Spirit,Him telling them to wait on the Holy Spirit would have been a lie.

Also the below verse

John 21:18 "Verily, verily, I say unto thee, When thou wast young, thou girdedst thyself, and walkedst whither thou wouldest: but when thou shalt be old, thou shalt stretch forth thy hands, and another shall gird thee, and carry thee whither thou wouldest not ."

Christ told Peter how he would die,if He came back before then,that also would had been a lie....

 

[Stranger]

Because had He returned before they received the Holy Spirit,Him telling them to wait on the Holy Spirit would have been a lie.

Also the below verse

John 21:18 "Verily, verily, I say unto thee, When thou wast young, thou girdedst thyself, and walkedst whither thou wouldest: but when thou shalt be old, thou shalt stretch forth thy hands, and another shall gird thee, and carry thee whither thou wouldest not ."

Christ told Peter how he would die,if He came back before then,that also would had been a lie....

None of your verses remove the promise of the rapture. None of your verses makes the rapture dependent on something to happen first before it occurs.

Prophecy and it's fulfillment is from God. God did not destroy Nineveh in 40 days as Jonah said. Jonah 3:4 " Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown." If He decided to come back before Peter's death, then Peter is delivered from that death.

Once Christ left, his promise to come back and take His people with Him to Heaven was in place and could occur at any time.

Stranger

 

[n2thelight]

None of your verses remove the promise of the rapture. None of your verses makes the rapture dependent on something to happen first before it occurs.

Prophecy and it's fulfillment is from God. God did not destroy Nineveh in 40 days as Jonah said. Jonah 3:4 " Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown." If He decided to come back before Peter's death, then Peter is delivered from that death.

Once Christ left, his promise to come back and take His people with Him to Heaven was in place and could occur at any time.

Stranger

I beg to differ,Christ never promised to take anyone to Heaven.The only way one makes it to Heaven is if they die first,in which case Christ brings them back when He comes....

The problem you all have is in the attempt to seperate Israel from the Church,so you can have the Jew's here during the trib,forgetting the fact that there's only 2 groups of people,those with Christ and those against Him...

The Jew's who only make up a portion of Israel if not saved,are just like anybody else....

 

[Stranger]

I beg to differ,Christ never promised to take anyone to Heaven.The only way one makes it to Heaven is if they die first,in which case Christ brings them back when He comes....

The problem you all have is in the attempt to seperate Israel from the Church,so you can have the Jew's here during the trib,forgetting the fact that there's only 2 groups of people,those with Christ and those against Him...

The Jew's who only make up a portion of Israel if not saved,are just like anybody else....

Enoch didn't die first. Hebrews 11:5 "By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God translated him:..."
Elijah didn't die first. 2 Kings 2:1 " And it came to pass, when the LORD would take up Elijah into heaven by a whirlwind,...."
2 Kings 2:11 "...and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.

John 14:2-3 'In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also."

Yes the lost and saved are two groups of people on earth. But, so is the Jew, the Gentile, and the Church. 1Cor. 10:32 " Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God:"

Stranger

 

[n2thelight]

Enoch didn't die first. Hebrews 11:5 "By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God translated him:..."
Elijah didn't die first. 2 Kings 2:1 " And it came to pass, when the LORD would take up Elijah into heaven by a whirlwind,...."
2 Kings 2:11 "...and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.

John 14:2-3 'In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also."

Yes the lost and saved are two groups of people on earth. But, so is the Jew, the Gentile, and the Church. 1Cor. 10:32 " Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God:"

Stranger

Enoch and Elijah were different..

Okay so who are the Jew's,who is the Church,and who are the Gentiles?

Definitions on each,as it's very important...


The point Im trying to make is ,you are either with God or against Him,and Christ is the only way to Him,no one is special....

 

[Stranger]

Enoch and Elijah were different..

Okay so who are the Jew's,who is the Church,and who are the Gentiles?

Definitions on each,as it's very important...


The point Im trying to make is ,you are either with God or against Him,and Christ is the only way to Him,no one is special....

You bet they are different. They were taken to heaven before dying. You might say they were 'raptured'. But you don't have to.

And what of the promise in John 14:2-3? That is a promise that Christ will return and take His people to Himself in Heaven where He is.

The point you were making was that there were only two groups of people, the saved and lost. But Scripture gives more than two. It gives the Jews, the Church, and the Gentiles.

The Jews are Jews. They can be saved or lost Jews, depending on the context.
The Gentiles are all people of all nations who are not Jews.
The Church is the body of believers since Pentacost, and consists of both Jew and Gentile.

Stranger

 

[keras]

You bet they are different. They were taken to heaven before dying. You might say they were 'raptured'. But you don't have to.

And what of the promise in John 14:2-3? That is a promise that Christ will return and take His people to Himself in Heaven where He is.

The point you were making was that there were only two groups of people, the saved and lost. But Scripture gives more than two. It gives the Jews, the Church, and the Gentiles.

The Jews are Jews. They can be saved or lost Jews, depending on the context.
The Gentiles are all people of all nations who are not Jews.
The Church is the body of believers since Pentacost, and consists of both Jew and Gentile.

Stranger

Enoch and Elijah were different, because God had His reasons to take them. They may be the 2 witnesses of Rev 11:3.
But since them, everyone, including Moses, Stephen, Peter, etc, and the millions of martyrs since have died and their souls are kept under the Altar. Why should you or any Christian now be taken away from the testing imes to come? 1 Peter 4:12
It is only by reading into and mis-applying the scriptures, that a 'rapture to heaven' is made out. John 14:1-3 does NOT say people will be taken to heaven, it says they will be taken to where Jesus is, that will be in Jerusalem, on earth. As Matthew 24:31 says.

There is not 3 types of people in God' sight. Only 2: the saved and the lost
There are many prophesies telling of the forthcoming judgement of Judah. Only a remnant of Messianic Jews will be saved. Isaiah 29:1-4, Jeremiah 12:14, Ezekiel 21:1-15, Matthew 21:43

 

[Stranger]

Enoch and Elijah were different, because God had His reasons to take them. They may be the 2 witnesses of Rev 11:3.
But since them, everyone, including Moses, Stephen, Peter, etc, and the millions of martyrs since have died and their souls are kept under the Altar. Why should you or any Christian now be taken away from the testing imes to come? 1 Peter 4:12
It is only by reading into and mis-applying the scriptures, that a 'rapture to heaven' is made out. John 14:1-3 does NOT say people will be taken to heaven, it says they will be taken to where Jesus is, that will be in Jerusalem, on earth. As Matthew 24:31 says.

There is not 3 types of people in God' sight. Only 2: the saved and the lost
There are many prophesies telling of the forthcoming judgement of Judah. Only a remnant of Messianic Jews will be saved. Isaiah 29:1-4, Jeremiah 12:14, Ezekiel 21:1-15, Matthew 21:43

What does that matter? Of course God had a reason. Just like He has a reason for rapturing the Church. He raptured them, Enoch and Elijah, and He can and will rapture the Church.

John 14:1-3 does say we are taken to Heaven. Where did Christ go? He went to Heaven to build in His Fathers House a place for His people. If that is not Heaven, what is?

There are three types of people as I just showed in 1Cor. 10:32 " ...to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God."

Stranger

 

[keras]

What does that matter? Of course God had a reason. Just like He has a reason for rapturing the Church. He raptured them, Enoch and Elijah, and He can and will rapture the Church.

John 14:1-3 does say we are taken to Heaven. Where did Christ go? He went to Heaven to build in His Fathers House a place for His people. If that is not Heaven, what is?

There are three types of people as I just showed in 1Cor. 10:32 " ...to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God."

Stranger

Please tell me the reason God wants His church in heaven. I don't see it anywhere, but I do see where He has work for His people on earth.

In John 13:1-3 Jesus says; I will go to heaven.....then: I will come again and take you to Myself.... Making that mean the church goes to heaven, is a serious misapplication of what is actually meant.

In 1 Cor 10:32, Paul separated the Jews from the Gentiles, because the gospel was offered to the Jews first. They rejected it and become the same as the ungodly gentiles in God's sight.
There is only one Christian people of God. Ephesians 4:4-6, John 10:16, Romans 9:6-8 The rest are doomed for destruction. Romans 9:22-26 Note in verse 26, it says ....those whom He has called from among Jews and gentiles ...in the very place......they shall be called sons of the Living God. Where does that happen? IN THE HOLY LAND
Time to really think whether the idea of a rapture outta here is right, because it sure doesn't conform to God's plans for His people.

 

[Marcus O'Reillius]

His church in heaven. I don't see it anywhere

Oh! So now we are limited from what you cannot see! NEWS FLASH: Your lack of vision does not determine the truth.

In John 13:1-3 - church goes to heaven, is a serious misapplication of what is actually meant.

One: it's John 14:1-3, and,
Two: it's a literal reading.
So rabbi keras now wants us to read it the way he reads it, and he says what it says it not what it says.

They rejected it and become the same as the ungodly gentiles in God's sight.
There is only one Christian people of God.

Kind of reminds me or Replacement Theology, and another reason rabbi keras takes the promises for Israel, and transposes them to the Church.

Time to really think whether the idea of a rapture outta here is right, because it sure doesn't conform to God's plans for His people.

So, you see, WHEN you misappropriate the promises for the natural nation of Israel, fulfilled in the Millennium, to the Church - then you don't need a Rapture - which is IN the Bible - and you don't need Heaven.

 

[n2thelight]

One: it's John 14:1-3, and,
Two: it's a literal reading.
So rabbi keras now wants us to read it the way he reads it, and he says what it says it not what it says.

John 14:1 "Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in Me."


John 14:2 "In My Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you."

Have you ever heard Christians say before, "I have a mansion in the sky"? Friend, that is not what "mansions" is talking about here, however it is even more beautiful then those thoughts of a large house in the sky. Let's take the word "mansions" as written in the Greek text. "Mansions" is "mone", # 3438 in the Strong's Greek dictionary, and pronounced, "mon-ay' ". It means a place to rest and abide where there is no trouble. Friend, this resting place is in Christ and the Father, that is the resting.

What is the subject of this chapter,? "Don't worry." Jesus is telling you don't worry at any time if you believe.

John 14:3 "And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto Myself; that where I am, there ye may be also."

This is Jesus' promise to you and I today, as much as it was to those eleven disciples sitting at the supper table with Him two thousand years ago. Jesus is telling us that we can count on Him, He is returning to earth to receive His own, and be with them here on earth during the Millennium age Kingdom.

John 14:4 "And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know."

Why? Because for the last three years Jesus told them over and over about His journey to the cross, His death and His resurrection. This is the way to the place where the preparation is made for theirs and our return to Him. That way leads down the path to the cross, and at His death it leads into the tomb where on the third day, Jesus rose for the dead to ascended to be with the father fifty days later.
Our resting place is in His Word, and under the shed blood of Jesus.

 

[n2thelight]

So, you see, WHEN you misappropriate the promises for the natural nation of Israel, fulfilled in the Millennium, to the Church - then you don't need a Rapture - which is IN the Bible - and you don't need Heaven.

Israel has always been the Church...The nation state of Israel today make up only two tribes ..Two baskets of figs were planted there,the good and the bad...True Judah being Christian ,ie the good figs,where as the bad are those that call themselves Jews but are not....

It has been the Christian nations(True Israel)that has kept her brother(Judah)protected since becoming a nation again.It has been the Christian nations(True Israel)that has spread, as prophecised the gospel around the world.

The two stick shall not be joined together until the return of Christ

Again there are only two groups of people those with Christ,and those against,simple as that....

 

[Marcus O'Reillius]

It means a place to rest and abide where there is no trouble. Friend, this resting place is in Christ and the Father, that is the resting.
He is returning to earth to receive His own, and be with them here on earth during the Millennium age Kingdom.
Our resting place is in His Word, and under the shed blood of Jesus.

And this would be a figurative reading.

 

[n2thelight]

And since you like literal meanings of scripture.

Who or what was the Church in the wilderness?

 

[Marcus O'Reillius]

Who or what was the Church in the wilderness?

What do you mean "in the wilderness?"

 

[n2thelight]

What do you mean "in the wilderness?"

Acts 7:38 "This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the Angel Which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our father: who received the lively oracles to give unto us."