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Featured Rapture Ready For Partial Rapture?

Discussion in 'Eschatology & Prophecy Forum' started by Enow, Mar 7, 2020.

  1. Enow

    Enow Well-Known Member

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    Paul did say he could become a castaway in 1 Corinthians 9:24-26.

    Jesus said He would cut off those from the vine for not abiding in Him; John 15:6

    Jesus also said He would cut them asunder to have their portions with unbelievers in Luke 12:40-49 in facing the calamity of fire coming on the earth.

    That is what Peter was warning believers to be saved from that calamity of fire by enduring to the end in 2 Peter 3:3-15
     
  2. Enow

    Enow Well-Known Member

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    Then ascertain what the warning is for and the consequence(s) for not heeding His warnings given to believers.
     
  3. Enow

    Enow Well-Known Member

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    That race involves looking to Him to help us lay aside every weight & sin. Not every saved believer is running that race when they are living their lives.
     
  4. Enow

    Enow Well-Known Member

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    2 Timothy 2:10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory. 11 It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him: 12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us: 13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

    So Jesus will deny believers who deny Him, but even if they don't believe in Him any more, He still abides. This is why even former believers are called to depart from iniquity because as they are now, they are vessels unto dishonor and they will be denied by Him unless they depart from iniquity before the Bridegroom comes. Then left behind to be resurrected after the great tribulation is why there are vessels unto dishonor in His House.

    2 Timothy 2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some. 19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. 20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. 21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.
     
  5. CharismaticLady

    CharismaticLady Well-Known Member

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    So you are bringing up works again??? Evidently you didn't understand the difference in works? Read my post to you a couple pages ago #340.
     
  6. Enow

    Enow Well-Known Member

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    In Romans 7 th chapter Paul was testifying to how he was before as under the law; he is not any more for why it leads into the 8th chapter for.

    If you want to keep overlooking that point then see Romans 6 also.

    Romans 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. 15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. 16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? 17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. 18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness. 19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness. 20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.
     
  7. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    Normally I read from, and quote, the King James. But I do use a number of other translations and interlinears. I've spent quite a number of years comparing and studying the translations and manuscript variations. I'm not to where I can just read Greek like a friend of mine, but the simpler Greek I can. And I've found the KJV to carry the best sense in the most places.

    It's not a condition. It's a definition.

    Much love!
     
  8. CharismaticLady

    CharismaticLady Well-Known Member

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    I suppose. The key is the word "in" Christ Jesus. Many know all about Jesus but do not actually abide in Him, and He in them. Take for instance, demons. Unfortunately, many Christians, because they do not abide in Him, and He in them, still have no power over sin. That "definition" is important, because it is walking in the Spirit that keeps you free from the flesh in order to keep his commandments.

    Now remember good works in our own strength, rather than in the power of the Spirit, is what the apostles are against. Works is NOT a dirty word. Just ask James. "14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. 18 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.

    1 John 3:23-24
    23 And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment. 24 Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.
     
  9. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    Hi Enow,

    Exegetically speaking . . . the Rapture is being snatched away, while Luke 21:36 is fleeing on one's own. That right there is enough to tell me that these are different. I've found the Bible agrees with itself in these tiny little details.

    Jesus was prophesying the end of the age to Israel, not the rapture of the church that would not actually be revealed (musterion) until Paul. That also is sufficient to tell me these are not the same. Paul revealed the mystery of the church. It was not revealed before that.

    There is more. I like these for their simplicity. Running away is not the same thing as being taken away, so these are different.

    Much love!
     
  10. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    Just being clear . . . some tend to blend.
     
  11. CharismaticLady

    CharismaticLady Well-Known Member

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    If you are ever going to speak against works, you HAVE to be clear. You, dear. Our own carnal righteousness is as filthy rags, but our righteousness through the Spirit is divine. To lump the Spirit in with the good works in the flesh can almost be blasphemy. You can see how strongly I feel about protecting the Spirit...
     
  12. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    You are not engaging the question.

    So with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin. There is therefore now no condemnation to them who are in Christ Jesus . . .

    This question is impossible to answer without the correct understanding.

    "Therefore" shows causal relationship. He spent 4 hours in the noontime sun, therefore he has a sunburn.

    "I the LORD change not, therefore you, O Jacob, are not consumed". Why is Jacob not consumed? Because the Lord does not change.

    "So with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin. There is therefore now no condemnation to them who are in Christ Jesus . . ."

    The questions becomes, what is the Therefore, there for?

    What is the causal relationship?

    with the mind, I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin. There is therefore . . .

    Much love!
     
  13. CharismaticLady

    CharismaticLady Well-Known Member

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    The "escape" of Luke 21:36 is the same as "keeping us from" in Revelation 3 to the faithful Church.

    "I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth."

    Neither implies we won't be on the earth, anymore than the Israelites were out of Egypt already when they were supernaturally protected from the plagues.
     
  14. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    Is any saved believer ALWAYS running their race?

    We do see these differently!

    :)
     
  15. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    Actually these are different. "I will keep you" and "strength to flee" are very different. Thse are not the same thing.

    Much love!
     
  16. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    The verb tenses say something different from this.

    Much love!
     
  17. CharismaticLady

    CharismaticLady Well-Known Member

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    Where are the words, strength to flee? There isn't. They are both protection by God.
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2020
  18. Enow

    Enow Well-Known Member

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    Romans 8:1There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit......
    5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. 8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

    Paul stated plainly that there is condemnation to those saints that walk after the flesh & they will die a physical death for reaping corruption. There is no point warning believers unless it is possible for them to be foolish to go astray and sow to the works of the flesh where they wind up being worse than they were before they were saved as Peter explained below.

    2 Peter 2:18 For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error. 19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage. 20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. 21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. 22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.
     
  19. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    Hi CL,

    Here is from Scripture4all.org, from Luke 21:

    upload_2020-3-18_12-50-22.png

    "To be escaping" here is an "active voice verb", meaning, this action is being performed by the person. The person flees.

    And from 1 Thessalonians 4:
    upload_2020-3-18_12-52-34.png
    "Shall be being snatched away" is a passive voice verb. This is done to the person, the person does not do this themself.

    These are not the same thing.

    Edit to add . . . the Majority MS shows as above, worthy to escape (flee), while the Alexandrian shows 'strength to escape'.
    Much love!
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2020
  20. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    Hi Enow,

    "If I want to keep overlooking . . ." ?

    Wouldn't that be intellectual dishonesty? Is that what you think of me?

    Much love!
     
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