Rapture Ready For Partial Rapture?

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marks

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So you are saying as long as you serve God in your mind, it doesn't matter what your flesh does because there is now no condemnation? I know some believe that, but you don't do you?
Of course I don't think that. That's Gnosticism.

But you still are not engaging my question. I mean, it's OK if you don't want to.

Much love!
 

marks

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Brother marks; what if those left behind are still justified in Christ Jesus to be considered His but they are disqualified because they did not run the race for that high prize of our calling to be the vessel unto honor in His House by His grace and by His help?
Hi Enow,

Finally returning to this . . .

We can ask "what if?" but why? We just need to know what is.

So then, IS someone disqualified from being raptured because of some disobedience in their life?

Daniel 12:2 "And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt."

Is that your thinking on this passage? The ones who weren't running the race are resurrected to everlasting shame and contempt?

That would seem a good description for those who are forever vessels of dishonor.

The next verse in Daniel is one I always like to keep in mind . . .

3 "And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever."

1 Corinthians 15
41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
47 The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.
48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

I don't see how this describes being resurrected a vessel of dishonor.

1 John 3
3 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

Vessels of dishonor?

Much love!
 

marks

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We are called to live this reconciled relationship with God thru Jesus Christ and nobody seems to understand that running that race is not for obtaining salvation, but for the high prize of our calling to be received by the Bridegroom as that vessel unto honor in His House at the rapture event.
I don't realize this because I don't see it in the Bible. You've concluded this is so, but requiring certain assumptions that I don't happen to share, such as that the judgment seat of Christ is the rapture of the church, and that the vessels of honor and dishonor apply to the eternal state and not to our lives now.

That the high calling is the same as endeavoring to be "received by the Bridegroom",

Let me ask you . . .

Philippians 3
10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.

The resurrection of the dead that Paul desires to attain unto . . . being made conformable unto His death, do you see this as attaining to his physical resurrection in the age to come? Or attaining to the fulness of the newness of life as in Romans 6?

Much love!
 

marks

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is why He is denying them access to the Marriage Supper as in disqualified for why there are empty seats there.
I think the marriage supper is on the earth after Jesus returns. Many will come from the east and west, there is no east and west in heaven.

In describing the bounds of heaven, the Bible uses terms like, from one end of heaven to the other, but not east and west, as these are earth directions.

Much love!
 
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marks

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If God commands a church to excommunicate a believer living in sin, in order to hold the feast of fellowship in sincerity and in truth, then what do you think Jesus will do as the Bridegroom for the Marriage Supper in Heaven?
Did God command excommunication of every believer who is entangled in sin?

He makes us a new lump.

1 Corinthians 15
41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

Much love!
 

marks

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The problem here is that you are not understanding why Jesus is warning believers to be ready or else. If Paul did not bring his body under subjection, he said he could become a castaway in 1 Corinthians 9:24-26 and not just lose the reward of crowns. Paul did not say he will lose salvation, but to be disqualified by Him to not attend the Marriage Supper in heaven in His honor as a castaway. This is where the vessels unto dishonor comes from.
You're pretty good at identifying the problem . . .

OK.

Paul did not say that he would lose salvation, in this you are correct.

However, Paul did not say that he would be disqualified from the wedding feast of the Lamb. And he did not say that he would be a "vessel unto dishonor". He didn't say these things. These are your own conclusions, but I really don't see them based in Scripture.

IN those places where you see this taught, I'd be happy to look at them one at a time with you.

Much love!
 

marks

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Also no more Gentiles will be saved, so witness now! The fullness of the Gentiles coming into the Church will close and the focus will now be on saving Israel.
I think gentiles may still be received into the kingdom being judged "sheep" by Jesus when He returns and gathers the nations for judgment.

Much love!
 

marks

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Wouldn't it be better for you and all who think they will be 'raptured', to know the truth and be prepared for soon to happen events?
I think it's best to know Jesus, and be found in Him. Whether this, or that, I don't have a dog in the fight. Rapture, wonderful! No rapture, wonderful! To live is Christ, to die is gain.

But for me, as those who teach, as most of us posting here are, to those who teach, we Will receive a stricter judgment. So I want to make sure what I'm teaching is what Scripture teaches. At least, to the absolute best that I can! My reliance is on the Holy Spirit, but it's on me if I ignore something, or insert my own assumptions.

Much love!
 

marks

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Matthew 6:
14 “For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15 But if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses."
So what about the sharp difference between these passages?

One says, forgive or you won't be forgiven. The other says, forgive others as God has in Christ forgiven you.

In the Ephesians passage, you are forgiven, and now are to forgive others in the same way.

In the Matthew passsage, you will not be forgiven unless you forgive others.

Seeing how these two statements are exactly opposite each other, how do you account for that?

Much love!
 

marks

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where you have to use discernment
I do prefer exegesis for these things.

Otherwise it becomes unverifiable, and subjective, and, to me, untrustworthy.

I'd rather say, and this is my practice, THIS I see in the text in such and such a way, and THAT is my own speculation, based on such and such. I like to make a clear distinction between what I believe the text of Scripture supports, and my own opinions based on what I read.

Much love!
 

marks

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Yes, we run that race by the same grace of God that we have been saved by our faith in Him as our Savior, by running that race by our hope in Him as our Good Shepherd to understand and discern by His words to abide in Him as His disciples so we can bear fruits so that our joy may be full.

We run that race by hoping in Jesus Christ thus living by faith in Jesus Christ and all His promises to us as our Good Shepherd to help us to follow Him.

This is not done by keeping a commitment or promise to Jesus in following Him.

Our hope is to be with Him, and our resurrection to glory, and to be like Him, all made new, all tears wiped away. And fixing our minds on this hope - This Hope - causes us to live more pure lives.

"and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith;"

It's all about faith. Not about our works, not any of the dead works of the flesh.

Much love!
 

marks

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marks said:
There is therefore now no condemnation . . .

Therefore . . . therefore why? Why is there now no condemnation? The answer is not what comes after, but what comes before "therefore".

Much love!


Romans 8:1There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.... 12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. 13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

There is no condemnation to those who do not walk after the flesh, but after the Spirit...
Like @CharismaticLady , you are not engaging this question either.

With the mind I serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin. There is therefore now no condemnation . . .

Therefore shows causal relationship between what goes before, and what comes after. This, therefore, that.

Here, This, is, "With the mind I serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin,", and, because this is true, the following is true, therefore, there is "no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus."

How do you explain this?

Much love!
 

marks

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being damned forever as that vessel unto dishonor In His House,
You keep repeating this but without once showing it actually taught in the Bible.

Romans 10:11 "For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed."

Eternally dishonored? I don't see it.

Much love!
 

Enow

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Hi Enow,

Finally returning to this . . .

We can ask "what if?" but why? We just need to know what is.

So then, IS someone disqualified from being raptured because of some disobedience in their life?

Daniel 12:2 "And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt."

Is that your thinking on this passage? The ones who weren't running the race are resurrected to everlasting shame and contempt?

That would seem a good description for those who are forever vessels of dishonor.

The next verse in Daniel is one I always like to keep in mind . . .

3 "And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever."

I agree with the above in regards to why Jesus warned believers to be ready or else as Luke 12:40-49 declares.

1 Corinthians 15
41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
47 The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.
48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

I don't see how this describes being resurrected a vessel of dishonor.

It doesn't when that was talking about our current sinful state we were born in.

1 John 3
3 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

Vessels of dishonor?

Much love!

You have to explain 2 Timothy 2:20 then for why the call to depart from iniquity was given even to former believers in 2 Timothy 2:18-21
 

Enow

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I don't realize this because I don't see it in the Bible. You've concluded this is so, but requiring certain assumptions that I don't happen to share, such as that the judgment seat of Christ is the rapture of the church, and that the vessels of honor and dishonor apply to the eternal state and not to our lives now.

That the high calling is the same as endeavoring to be "received by the Bridegroom",

Let me ask you . . .

Philippians 3
10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.

The resurrection of the dead that Paul desires to attain unto . . . being made conformable unto His death, do you see this as attaining to his physical resurrection in the age to come? Or attaining to the fulness of the newness of life as in Romans 6?

Much love!

Whatever it is you are trying to share, consider Paul's words of the risk of being a castaway and not just losing the rewards of crowns in running that race.

1 Corinthians 9:24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain. 25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible. 26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air: 27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.
 

CharismaticLady

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Of course I don't think that. That's Gnosticism.

But you still are not engaging my question. I mean, it's OK if you don't want to.

Much love!

Of course I want to, even though I keep having to repeat the same truth to you over and over.

Romans 7:25 is still someone under the law before the Spirit. The reason we know this is because they are STILL IN THE FLESH. "So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God." Romans 8 shows that the Spirit frees us from sin in the flesh, and thus from the law. Romans 8:9 For we are NOT IN THE FLESH, but in the Spirit, if the Spirit of God indeed dwells in you. If anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ they do not belong to Him.
 

Enow

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I think the marriage supper is on the earth after Jesus returns. Many will come from the east and west, there is no east and west in heaven.

In describing the bounds of heaven, the Bible uses terms like, from one end of heaven to the other, but not east and west, as these are earth directions.

Much love!

That is the gathering from all over the world; to be taken to Heaven.
 

Enow

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Did God command excommunication of every believer who is entangled in sin?

He makes us a new lump.

1 Corinthians 15
41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

Much love!

1 Corinthians 5:8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth. 9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators: 10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world. 11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat. 12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within? 13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

Really think with all the heresy being spouted and argued with in this forum, believers are ready to hold that feast in Heaven in sincerity & in truth?

You can't see God casting those not ready being in iniquity still and have not repented of their iniquity into the bed of the great tribulation where Satan will wage war on the saints to kill them with death?

1 Corinthians 5:4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, 5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

Revelation 2:21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not. 22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds. 23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.
 

CharismaticLady

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I think gentiles may still be received into the kingdom being judged "sheep" by Jesus when He returns and gathers the nations for judgment.

Much love!

Based on what scriptures?

Mine is based on the Revelation 2 and 3 (the last 4 letters); Romans 11:25-27; 2 Thessalonians 2:8-12; Revelation 7:9-14.
 

CharismaticLady

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marks said:
There is therefore now no condemnation . . .

Therefore . . . therefore why? Why is there now no condemnation? The answer is not what comes after, but what comes before "therefore".

Much love!



Like @CharismaticLady , you are not engaging this question either.

With the mind I serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin. There is therefore now no condemnation . . .

Therefore shows causal relationship between what goes before, and what comes after. This, therefore, that.

Here, This, is, "With the mind I serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin,", and, because this is true, the following is true, therefore, there is "no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus."

How do you explain this?

Much love!

The reason you are having a problem understanding the difference between being under the law and under the Spirit is because you seem to be using a modern translation that has deleted the condition. Read Romans 8:1 in the NKJV