In the list of the 12 tribes of Revelation ch. 7, there is also no Ephraim as well as Dan. I have seen just one explanation most of the time--that the tribes of Dan and Ephraim were most responsible for the idolatry that got the Ten northern tribes of Israel pitched out of the Land.
Rapture Top Dogs Admit no Proof Exists.
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Yes, not only is Dan left out of the list of the 12 tribes in Revelation 7 but so is Ephraim as well.
However, Dan's territory is listed in Ezekiel 48:1 so it appears that God will forgive the Tribe of Dan. It could be that the Tribe of Dan doesn't come to faith until after the 144,000 are sealed. Ephraim may be included in the Tribe of Joseph.
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Your answer is found in Judges, chapter 18. Read the entire chapter which concludes thus:
30 And the children of Dan set up the graven image: and Jonathan, the son of Gershom, the son of Manasseh, he and his sons were priests to the tribe of Dan until the day of the captivity of the land.
31 And they set them up Micah's graven image, which he made, all the time that the house of God was in Shiloh.
The tribe of Dan deliberately chose idolatry and a false priesthood instead of worshiping at Shiloh as commanded by God. In spite of that, God will give Dan a portion with the twelve tribes of Israel in the Millennium (after they have repented and believed on the Lord Jesus Christ).
Now these are the names of the tribes. From the north end to the coast of the way of Hethlon, as one goeth to Hamath, Hazarenan, the border of Damascus northward, to the coast of Hamath; for these are his sides east and west; a portion for Dan.(Ezek 48:1)
The Holy Spirit calls "Ephraim" "Joseph" in Revelation 7, but "Ephraim" in Ezekiel 48:5: And by the border of Manasseh, from the east side unto the west side, a portion for Ephraim.
CoreIssue
Well-Known Member
It gets a bit complicated when there are half tribes.
Apparently, Ephraim was sometimes referred to as "Joseph". It is thought that it is because Ephraim was the more dominant of Joseph's two sons.
CoreIssue
Well-Known Member
Waiting on him
Well-Known Member
Jesus said anyone who does the will of the father is his brother,mother,sister,.. would this make all Christians members of the tribe of Judah?? @amadeus id still like a response from you on this, if you have time too.
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All Christians are spiritual brothers and sisters. But that is not the same as being brothers and sisters after the flesh.
Waiting on him
Well-Known Member
No, it means that we are SPIRITUAL brothers, sisters, mothers, etc. of Christ (Jesus is "the first of many brethren"). Recall that Jesus, from the Cross, tells John that Mary is John's mother now. Did that mean that she was his mother after the flesh (how could that be since she did not give natural birth to John?), or did it mean that she was his mother by the Spirit of God?
Waiting on him
Well-Known Member
Jesus in revelation is referenced as the lion of the tribe of Judah. Does this mean he’s still affiliated with this tribe?
Thank you for the simplicity which tells the story. I do agree.
Do realize how many non-answers on this I have received on this? I won't elaborate, but maybe you understand...
Yes, I believe so. He is also a descendant of King David. It has been said that being descended from David on both sides of His family was relatively rare. He had legal descent as Joseph's son--remembering that an adopted son has all the rights and privileges of a natural son--and His natural descent on His mother's side. Some have gone so far as to say that Jesus may have been the only rightful heir to the throne of David, in Judea, at that time.
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Spiritually of Judah or of Israel you mean perhaps? I don’t have an specific answer but I have some notes used regarding the prophecy of Jacob on Judah which may be helpful...
“Moreover he refused the tabernacle of Joseph, and chose not the tribe of Ephraim:
But chose the tribe of Judah, the mount Zion which he loved.” Psalm 78:67-68
Then Jacob’s prophecy:
"Judah [=praised], thou art he whom thy brethren shall praise: thy hand shall be in the neck of thine enemies; thy father's children shall bow down before thee. [It was however Joseph to whom the father’s children bowed]
Judah is a lion's whelp [Was he the lion of Judah or the Lamb of God or both]:
from the prey, my son, thou art gone up: he stooped down, he couched as a lion, and as an old lion; who shall rouse him up?
[“And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.
And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.” Rev 5:5-6]
The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, [the sceptre offered by the King of the Persian Empire was Life for Esther... see Esther 4:11 & 5:2]
nor a lawgiver from between his feet [between his feet may refer to Him as a source of Life (reference to reproduction). This is used regarding a woman (Deut28:57)], until Shiloh [=a place of rest; the location of the tabernacle in the promised land (Joshua 18:1) ] come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be.
Binding his foal unto the vine, and his ass's colt unto the choice vine [see Zech 9:9 & Matt 21:5]; he washed his garments in wine [see Rev 7:14], and his clothes in the blood of grapes [=wine= blood of Jesus]:
His eyes shall be red with wine, and his teeth white with milk." Gen 49:8-12
And then...
“For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:” Heb 8:8 [See Jerem 31:31-33]
If you can amplify or add to this I would be glad to see it.
@CoreIssue @Lady Crosstalk @Enoch111
Thanks to the several people who responded to my question regarding the missing tribe of Dan in Revelation chapter 7...
Thanks to the several people who responded to my question regarding the missing tribe of Dan in Revelation chapter 7...
Waiting on him
Well-Known Member
Thanks you brought this to mind
Genesis 49:10-12,16-17 KJV
[10] The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be . [11] Binding his foal unto the vine, and his ass's colt unto the choice vine; he washed his garments in wine, and his clothes in the blood of grapes: [12] His eyes shall be red with wine, and his teeth white with milk. [16] Dan shall judge his people, as one of the tribes of Israel. [17] Dan shall be a serpent by the way, an adder in the path, that biteth the horse heels, so that his rider shall fall backward.
Tecarta BibleAlso see Isaiah 63:
Isaiah 63:1-6 KJV
[1] Who is this that cometh from Edom, with dyed garments from Bozrah? this that is glorious in his apparel, travelling in the greatness of his strength? I that speak in righteousness, mighty to save. [2] Wherefore art thou red in thine apparel, and thy garments like him that treadeth in the winefat? [3] I have trodden the winepress alone; and of the people there was none with me: for I will tread them in mine anger, and trample them in my fury; and their blood shall be sprinkled upon my garments, and I will stain all my raiment. [4] For the day of vengeance is in mine heart, and the year of my redeemed is come. [5] And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold: therefore mine own arm brought salvation unto me; and my fury, it upheld me. [6] And I will tread down the people in mine anger, and make them drunk in my fury, and I will bring down their strength to the earth.
Tecarta Bible
You are quite welcome--that has always been a pondering point of mine as well. Somehow, it doesn't seem to be the whole story that it was just about idolatry. But it seems that Scripture would have told us more if it was important to our present understanding.
Copperhead
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Copperhead
Well-Known Member
So the 12 tribes are either believers or they are disbarred and are now gentiles. Ok.... when did believing Israel reject Messiah and how is it, if they are redeemed, do they have to acknowledge that rejection before He will return?
Hosea 5:14-15 For I will be like a lion to Ephraim,
And like a young lion to the house of Judah.
I, even I, will tear them and go away;
I will take them away, and no one shall rescue.
15 I will return again to My place
Till they acknowledge their offense.
Then they will seek My face;
In their affliction they will earnestly seek Me.”
Ephraim was the largest tribe of the north so Hosea and Isaiah would use Ephraim as a collective term for all the northern Kingdom. Likewise, Judah being the largest tribe in the southern kingdom, that kingdom was collectively known as Judah. So in verse 14, we see that the reference is all 12 tribes.
And that being the case, Yeshua says next that He will return to His place until they (all 12 tribes) acknowledge their offense. So He is not going to return and set foot on this planet until they do.
And Yeshua affirmed this in....
Matthew 23:37-39 “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing! 38 See! Your house is left to you desolate; 39 for I say to you, you shall see Me no more till you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!’ ”
So again, when did the redeemed reject Yeshua, and how could they be considered redeemed while in rejection of Yeshua? And that rejection of Yeshua would have had to happen before He ascended back to the Father, as it is the rejection that caused Him to return to the Father. And we know that the rejection has not ended because Yeshua has not returned.
Wow. To be a part of the body of Messiah, the bride of Messiah, the ekklesia of Messiah, and reject the Messiah before the ekklesia even started at Shavuot following His ascension. Anyone who wants to go down that rabbit trail of Alice in Wonderland really should consider serious professional counseling to untie those knots.
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