Rapture Top Dogs Admit no Proof Exists.

[Copperhead]

There is no direct scriptural support to support a 7 year tribulation or pre-trib rapture. If you teach this doctrine it make you a false prophet and a deceiver. The only rapture happens on the last day after the resurrection according to Paul and Jesus. It will be as in the days of Noah at that time, marrying and giving in marriage just as today.

I would agree to some extent. The "great tribulation" within Daniel's 70th week is really only 3.5 years, the last half of Daniel's 70th week.

"At the Last Day" is a reference to the Day of the Lord. Just like "in that day" in many locations of the OT means the same thing. It is not a literal 24 hr day but a period of time when a lot of stuff is going down.

But there is ample support that the righteous are removed and hidden in the tabernacle of the Lord during this period. King David states that as does Isaiah, and Yeshua affirms what Isaiah says in John. That either has to be where the Lord is, unless there is an auxiliary tabernacle of the Lord set up in some place like Hoboken, New Jersey. And as for timing, the scripture says that it is before the man of sin / false messiah / antichrist is revealed. And he has to be revealed to enforce the covenant that starts Daniel's 70th week which is represented by seal one in Revelation 6.

And you can grow up and drop the character assassination tactics that the political world uses. You keep it up and we are going to be assured you are just a troll that has come in to disrupt the Body. Brothers and sisters in the body can disagree on details without laying false accusations of malicious intent (deception). You cannot know the heart of another and it is not in your pay grade to accuse them of being malicious. That is slander, pure and simple, and sin. Just stop doing it or it will be confirmed that you are not part of the body.

 

[Copperhead]

And then, the Lord will send fire out of heaven.

Yeah, it will really amplify the meaning of "global warming".

 

[Dave L]

I would agree to some extent. The "tribulation period" within Daniel's 70th week is really only 3.5 years, the last half of Daniel's 70th week.

"At the Last Day" is a reference to the Day of the Lord. Just like "in that day" in many locations of the OT means the same thing. It is not a literal 24 hr day but a period of time when a lot of stuff is going down.

But there is ample support that the righteous are removed and hidden in the tabernacle of the Lord during this period. King David states that as does Isaiah, and Yeshua affirms what Isaiah says in John. That either has to be where the Lord is, unless there is an auxiliary tabernacle of the Lord set up in some place like Hoboken, New Jersey. And as for timing, the scripture says that it is before the man of sin / false messiah / antichrist is revealed. And he has to be revealed to enforce the covenant that starts Daniel's 70th week which is represented by seal one in Revelation 6.

And you can grow up and drop the character assassination tactics that the political world uses. You keep it up and we are going to be assured you are just a troll that has come in to disrupt the Body. Brothers and sisters in the body can disagree on details without laying false accusations of malicious intent (deception). You cannot know the heart of another and it is not in your pay grade to accuse them of being malicious. That is slander, pure and simple, and sin. Just stop doing it or it will be confirmed that you are not part of the body.

There is no gap between Daniel's 69-70th weeks. It is a Jesuit lie and the source for all of Dispensationalism's false prophecy.

 

[Copperhead]

There is no gap between Daniel's 69-70th weeks. It is a Jesuit lie and the source for all of Dispensationalism's false prophecy.

So when was the 70th week fulfilled? By 39AD? Funny, I don't recall even Josephus claiming that the covenant was confirmed by the prince of the people to come right after Yeshua's death and was broken 3.5 years later.

There are gaps intended in scripture. Yeshua gave us a clear example when He read Isaiah 61 in the synagogue. He stopped right before "And the day of vengeance of our God", closed the scroll, and proclaimed that what He had read was fulfilled before their eyes. The day of vengeance of YHVH would be another 2000 years at least.

Isaiah 61:1-2 “The Spirit of the Lord God is upon Me, Because the Lord has anointed Me
To preach good tidings to the poor;
He has sent Me to heal the brokenhearted,
To proclaim liberty to the captives,
And the opening of the prison to those who are bound;
2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord, (Yeshua stopped here)

And the day of vengeance of our God;
To comfort all who mourn,


You seem to get a real kick out of calling everyone who has a different opinion a liar, deceiver, false prophet, etc. You have arbitrarily set yourself up as the sole authority on eschatology. You might want to climb down off that pedestal. The fall could be brutal.

 

[Dave L]

So when was the 70th week fulfilled? By 39AD? Funny, I don't recall even Josephus claiming that the covenant was confirmed by the prince of the people to come right after Yeshua's death.

There are gaps in scripture. Yeshua gave us a clear example when He read Isaiah 61 in the synagogue. He stopped right before "And the day of vengeance of our God", closed the scroll, and proclaimed that what He had read was fulfilled before their eyes. The day of vengeance of YHVH would be another 2000 years at least.

Isaiah 61:1-2 “The Spirit of the Lord God is upon Me, Because the Lord has anointed Me
To preach good tidings to the poor;
He has sent Me to heal the brokenhearted,
To proclaim liberty to the captives,
And the opening of the prison to those who are bound;
2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord,

And the day of vengeance of our God;
To comfort all who mourn,

There is no gap between Daniel's 69-70th weeks.

 

[Enoch111]

Nowhere does the Bible say that God will take His people to heaven.

All the saints who have passed on -- both OT and NT -- are presently in Heaven. How did you miss that? And at the Resurrection/Rapture their souls and spirits will come with Christ to receive resurrected, immortal, glorified bodies, and then return to Heaven for the Marriage of the Lamb.

But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel. (Heb 12:22-24)

 

[Copperhead]

There is no gap between Daniel's 69-70th weeks.

Ok. go with it. I grew up on a livestock farm. I know that even if one leads a horse to water, one cannot make him drink.

 

[Enoch111]

Nothing is finished until Christ returns to this earth,and even then,that's just the first part.

Christ returns to this earth to JUDGE AND TO DESTROY before He establishes His Kingdom. Not finish the work of redemption in His saints, which happens long before that.

Who are the children of God?

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. (John 1:12,13)

 

[Dave L]

Ok. go with it.

Prove from direct quotes in scripture one exists. = false prophecy if you cannot.

 

[Copperhead]

All the saints who have passed on -- both OT and NT -- are presently in Heaven. How did you miss that? And at the Resurrection/Rapture their souls and spirits will come with Christ to received resurrected, immortal, glorified bodies, and then return to Heaven for the Marriage of the Lamb.

But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel. (Heb 12:22-24)

And don't forget Isaiah 26:19-21.

 

[Copperhead]

Prove from direct quotes in scripture one exists. = false prophecy if you cannot.

Already did. You are blinded to your own conceit that you don't see it. That's ok. I am not offended or worried. All one can do is point something out and if the person refuses to see it, well, not my problem anymore. So..... go with it.

You can only prove a false prophecy after the event happens and the prophet is proven wrong. That is scripture. You are making false accusations based on no evidence which is slander. False prophet was a capital offense in Israel. You are accusing others of a capital offense on which you have no scriptural basis to prove it. You were advised not to continue on that path, but you remain.

You are a troll that has come in to disrupt the Body. I wouldn't have said that if you would have stopped, but you continued. Now it is confirmed.

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

Yeah, it will really amplify the meaning of "global warming".

LOL

 

[Dave L]

Already did. You are blinded to your own conceit that you don't see it. That's ok. I am not offended or worried. All one can do is point something out and if the person refuses to see it, well, not my problem anymore. So..... go with it.

You can only prove a false prophecy after the event happens and the prophet is proven wrong. That is scripture. You are making false accusations based on no evidence which is slander. False prophet was a capital offense in Israel. You are accusing others of a capital offense on which you have no scriptural basis to prove it. You were advised not to continue on that path, but you remain.

You are a troll that has come in to disrupt the Body. I wouldn't have said that if you would have stopped, but you continued. Now it is confirmed.

You haven't any direct quotes placing a gap between Daniel's 69th and 70th weeks. Because of this you turn Jesus, who fulfilled the 70th week, into Antichrist. And then add one false prophecy after another to recreate the first century days of the abomination of desolation, well into the future. A restored Roman Empire, a Temple, a great tribulation, a pre=trib rapture and more. Each having no direct scriptural support either = false prophecy.

 

[CoreIssue]

Agree. But he was making the point that the only real Israel is those who believe. And all the others of the Hebrews are not Israel because they don't believe. Those are now gentiles. So that I why I posted those passages. There indeed remains a segregated Israel that is still in unbelief. And until the collective group acknowledges that rejection and turns to Yeshua, He is not going to set foot on this earth.

This is where those that say Israel is not longer valid and the redeemed are now the true Israel get caught in quicksand. They fight tooth and nail to argue the assertion, but just those 5 verses I posted make that all look so nonsensical.

Physically, the Bible never says a Jew has to be a believer to be Israel.

Spiritually there's a whole other issue.

Replacement theology tries to make gentiles into Israel. It is false.

 

[CoreIssue]

Nothing is finished until Christ returns to this earth,and even then,that's just the first part.
Who are the children of God?

All those who believe in him by faith and are saved by grace and the blood of Christ.

 

[CoreIssue]

From what passage are you speaking? I'm not arguing with you but my reading of Zechariah chapters 12, 13 and 14 leads me to believe that they acknowledge their grievous sin of rejecting their Messiah before they see Him coming with His "holy ones" (Zechariah 14:5). In any case, it will happen as the Lord directs.

Zechariah 12:10 New International Version (NIV)
Mourning for the One They Pierced
10 “And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and supplication. They will look on me, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for him as one grieves for a firstborn son.

Read the whole chapter. His second coming.

They do not see him until the second coming.

 

[CoreIssue]

What do you all rapturist think would had happened if the prophets and the diciples wanted to be raptured before they had to do what they were meant to do?

They died for that,and for you to say you want to escape IMO it's a slap in their face!!!

What would've happened if a fleet of alien ships attacked the
Earth.

Your question is irrelevant and a fantasy.

 

[amadeus]

From my own reading I have seen a two part map for the tribe of Dan. The first part is west of Ephraim and Benjamin and south of Western Manasseh. The western border is the Mediterranean Sea. That part was described by Joshua initially.[Joshua 19:40ff]

The second part of Dan [Judges chapter 18] was obtained when they went searching and destroyed the people of Laish, a people apparently of the Zidonians. This part was located to the north, a small piece between Naphtali and Eastern Manasseh as shown on this map...

 

[CoreIssue]

From my own reading I have seen a two part map for the tribe of Dan. The first part is west of Ephraim and Benjamin and south of Western Manasseh. The western border is the Mediterranean Sea. That part was described by Joshua initially.[Joshua 19:40ff]

The second part of Dan [Judges chapter 18] was obtained when they went searching and destroyed the people of Laish, a people apparently of the Zidonians. This part was located to the north, a small piece between Naphtali and Eastern Manasseh as shown on this map...View attachment 5820

If you wish to do a map study here are a bunch:
Map the tribes of Israel at DuckDuckGo

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

Zechariah 12:10 New International Version (NIV)
Mourning for the One They Pierced
10 “And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and supplication. They will look on me, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for him as one grieves for a firstborn son.

Read the whole chapter. His second coming.

They do not see him until the second coming.

I think the Second Coming is depicted in Zechariah 14:5. Zechariah 12:10 may be the time of being convinced of and acknowledging their grievous sin of rejecting their Messiah. I looked up the Hebrew in Strong's and the first meaning is to "look on"--true-- but the second meaning is to "pay attention to" or "regard". It follows the pouring out of the "spirit of grace and supplication". I am reminded of my husband's grandmother who, when reading of the Crucifixion, would weep and say, "Oh Lord Jesus, what they did to you." I think she definitely "looked on" Him. I was myself convinced of the truth while reading the Crucifixion account in the Gospel of John at about this time of the year. For just a moment, it felt as though I had been transported to the foot of the Cross and I "looked on" Him.