Reading The Bible.

[meecrob]

I was just curious to what other peoples opinions are. I like hearing different sides. First of all, I don't believe that reading only certain parts of the bible, without reading the stories, can be considered studying the bible. I also don't think that it makes you credible to preach to other people. Now, I believe, if you've read the bible, and then want to study it that way - that's fine. What are your opinions on that?

 

[brionne]

I was just curious to what other peoples opinions are. I like hearing different sides. First of all, I don't believe that reading only certain parts of the bible, without reading the stories, can be considered studying the bible. I also don't think that it makes you credible to preach to other people. Now, I believe, if you've read the bible, and then want to study it that way - that's fine. What are your opinions on that?

its good to read the entire bible, but it may not help you in understanding much about it.

the best way to study the bible is with a study aid which discusses certain subjects and uses the bible to provide the answers.

The subjects covered in study aids may be subjects such as: What is Hell, What is the Soul, What happens when we die, Who is Jesus, Why did Jesus have to die, What does it mean to be a christian etc etc etc

A good study aid will give you more then simple answers and scriptures though. It will also provide you with the original word meanings which is very important because the words used by the hebrews and early christians have changed in meaning since they were written. So in order to really understand whats written, you must know what the original writers actually meant when they wrote their books. You should also know a bit of background information about the person who wrote the bible book, his purpose in writing it & who he wrote it for...this will help you to read the bible book in context.

Then with the original words and background information in mind, you will be able to read the bible and get a good understanding of what God is telling us. Church doctrines are not study aids btw....they are generally introduced ideas that do not come from the bible.

 

[fivesense]

I have to agree with you tree. My thoughts are the same. Reading is not the same as studying, in my opinion. The latter is considerably more disciplined and focused. A person studies to learn about something, while a person reads to satisfy curiousity. I can see where a lack of earnest study would be like a 15 year-old going to kindergarten all the time, instead of entering into High School as would be appropriate. A mind that is stimulated through curiousity alone is easily distracted and likely unstable. It finds it best satisfaction in soulishness and not the things of the Spirit, which indicates immaturity.

Paul did exhort Timothy to study, in order to seek God's approval. I have found that if His approval is bestowed to someone, it usually entails His giving more light and more understanding of who He is and what He is doing in the earth. I enjoy this the most about our God, He rewards us liberally in the spirit if we are willing to seek His approval.

God has given us teachers, and many of them have not entered into the deep things of God due to dwelling in minority;, the spiritual gifts, earthly blessings, prosperity teachings and the like. Paul said, of the three spiritual gratuities that would remain til the Lord returned, the greatest and most transcendent way was the way of love.

It is not good to assess whether or not someone else is a credible teacher or "preacher", according to what we think is the standard. We may cut ourselves off from some spiritual blessing, however minute, because our ears refuse to hear. If we are in the word, studying humbly before God seeking His approval, then whatever a curious or soulish believer may teach or preach will not overly affect us. But it would be our error if we were to dismiss them out of hand, and refuse to hear what they had to say.
fivesense

 

[meecrob]

Thank you for both of your responses! And to fivesense, I understand what you are saying by not ignoring a person for preaching, for I could miss something if they were good, and I agree. I just mean that, I know A LOT of Christian people who don't read the bible as history, or the full stories, they just read bits and parts and start telling you what you're doing wrong and stuff. Pegg, I also agree with you about having a bible study. After I read the bible for the first time, the second time will be more studying. I already have a bible time line and other books to help me better understand it. And I'll also be checking those studies, as best as I can, to make sure they factual.

I just can't understand if I'm not the only one who feels this way, why do so people just read lines of the bible and start condeming people?

I stay in a house full of great people, but their hypocricy is horrid. None of them (except the father), reads the whole bible, and they ALL condemn eachother! They don't believe that we all have our time to go, which to me is like not believing in God's will, they believe their sister got Lupus because she "MUST be a bad Christain or God would take it away!", 1 of the sisters had a misscarriage and the other sister said "it happened to her because she was living a life of sin", then that same sister too possibly had a misscarriage this year, one sister believes that if someone tries to shoot her and she says "I repent you!", that they WILL NOT NO MATTER WHAT shoot her.. OH and one sister believes it's totally okay to pray to win the lottery and God will answer her when she gets rid of sin in her life. I just.. I know that God is a powerful God, and there is nothing He can't do.. so if He wants for any of the above to be true, it can be true. To just ASSUME that it all is, seems prideful and and pitiful to me though. When I made a statement about it being someones time to go, one of the sisters started snapping on me saying that isn't true, and then telling me that "The bible isn't meant to be read like a book!! If you have a question, you use it to find the answers".. Which I ALSO disagree with because if you don't understand the full story, and you read a line that relates to your question, what if you don't understand it and misuse it? Ugh.. So much I've been wanting to discuss!

 

[brionne]

I just can't understand if I'm not the only one who feels this way, why do so people just read lines of the bible and start condeming people?
I stay in a house full of great people, but their hypocricy is horrid. None of them (except the father), reads the whole bible, and they ALL condemn eachother!

Its very unfortunate that this happens. I think it really depends on their preachers to be honest. If a preacher presents his teachings in a well balanced manner, then his listerners are bound to be well balanced about such things. But if a preacher is pointing the finger and condemning in his sermons, then the sheep will be the same.

Preachers have a HUGE responsibility to be 'sound in mind' and to really know Gods view on matters. Paul gives the standard for how preachers should behave at 1Ti 3:1-7

They don't believe that we all have our time to go, which to me is like not believing in God's will, they believe their sister got Lupus because she "MUST be a bad Christain or God would take it away!", 1 of the sisters had a misscarriage and the other sister said "it happened to her because she was living a life of sin", then that same sister too possibly had a misscarriage this year, one sister believes that if someone tries to shoot her and she says "I repent you!", that they WILL NOT NO MATTER WHAT shoot her.. OH and one sister believes it's totally okay to pray to win the lottery and God will answer her when she gets rid of sin in her life. I just.. I know that God is a powerful God, and there is nothing He can't do.. so if He wants for any of the above to be true, it can be true. To just ASSUME that it all is, seems prideful and and pitiful to me though.

I feel really sad when I hear of christians who think God is punishing them for their sin when they get sick or something bad happens to them. Job 34:10 tells us that God does not act wickedly. We suffer such things only because we are living in a world that is out of his control. We are all imperfect so our bodies do not function as they are supposed to function thats why we get sick...no other reason. James 1:13

My personal feeling is that its our own guilty feelings that cause us to think God is punishing us. Guilt is a terrible burden on us....its guilt that caused Adam to run and hide from his heavenly father when he sinned. And even after Adam disobeyed & hid from God....he still showed him care and dignity by clothing him in animals skins. This tells us alot about God and shows that even when we do wrong God still cares for us. Far from cause us distress he tries to ease it.

When I made a statement about it being someones time to go, one of the sisters started snapping on me saying that isn't true, and then telling me that "The bible isn't meant to be read like a book!! If you have a question, you use it to find the answers".. Which I ALSO disagree with because if you don't understand the full story, and you read a line that relates to your question, what if you don't understand it and misuse it? Ugh.. So much I've been wanting to discuss!

Your right, you cannot simply read one line and think that is an answer to your question. You should always read the entire chapter in order to get the right context of what is being spoken of. Answers certainly do come to you when you read in full context and understand the meaning behind the words being spoken. You also need to ensure that the answer you come to is in harmony with Gods personality, his laws and his purposes.

Perhaps if you have any particular questions that you have in mind, post them and i can give you a demonstration of how to find an answer.

 

[meecrob]

I appreciate your time answering my questions. It's very stressfull for me because I don't see eye to eye with my family, or the family I stay with. I am a very open-minded person, but everyone I'm around are like brainwashed or something.. I don't understand how they can believe what they think. I was raised Catholic, and while I believe Catholicism has a lot of good factors, I have many disagreements with them too. I am against the corruption of the Catholic Church, I do not believe you have to be Catholic to go to heaven, and other things too. (My mom is Roman Catholic). Then, I don't believe in any other religion breaking off from the Catholic church because they just changed what they didn't like. My personal belief is to read the bible, learn and understand as much about it as you can, and life your life loving, knowing, and serving God. But then, the family I stay with, they supposedly feel the same way I do but they're nuts. One of the girls hasn't read any of the bible EXCEPT Revelations and thinks she knows everything about the end times. I try telling her that she cannot possibly understand Revelations without reading even some of the Old Testament ( for I haven't read Revelations yet, but I know it talks about the different tribes, Benjamin.. Judah.. etc, and they are all Isrealites from the Old Testament) but no she just says I'm wrong blahblah. So I feel like an outcast all the time. This is how I feel - Either God blessed me with more common sense and knowledge than most people around me, or the people around me are just .. well, don't have much common sense. That is why I am glad to find this site, to see if there are other people who see things the way I do, or if perhaps I'm just the one who's nuts!! lol.

Pegg, there are soo many questions I'd like to ask and I'll forget some and remember others.. but I have not yet finished reading the bible, I still have a long journey learning about God and his rules, but may I ask..

Besides Job 34:10, are there more scriptures saying God would not juve give someone Lupus because they are "bad"? I feel horrible that my best friend gets told this everytime her sisters are over. Common sense is that it's not true, because their are bad people who live healthy lives, and good people who live unhealthy lives.. everywhere, everyday! But they like to spout it at her! And, while I want my friend to read all of the bible and understand all of God and his great works, I'd like to give her some things for her to read so she won't feel so condemned. Her sisters are always more than happy to find things to give her to tell her why God punished her with lupus! Oh, and sorry to ramble, but what really makes me mad is that my best friend who has Lupus, is a GREAT girl!! She commits no more sins than I do, and for sure not as much as her sisters! If they truely believed that, they should think that they should have lupus. Ugh.. a mess. Thank you for your time again Pegg

 

[brionne]

Besides Job 34:10, are there more scriptures saying God would not juve give someone Lupus because they are "bad"? I feel horrible that my best friend gets told this everytime her sisters are over. Common sense is that it's not true, because their are bad people who live healthy lives, and good people who live unhealthy lives.. everywhere, everyday! But they like to spout it at her! And, while I want my friend to read all of the bible and understand all of God and his great works, I'd like to give her some things for her to read so she won't feel so condemned. Her sisters are always more than happy to find things to give her to tell her why God punished her with lupus! Oh, and sorry to ramble, but what really makes me mad is that my best friend who has Lupus, is a GREAT girl!! She commits no more sins than I do, and for sure not as much as her sisters! If they truely believed that, they should think that they should have lupus. Ugh.. a mess. Thank you for your time again Pegg

Ok, no problem.
Firstly, we need to know why we get sick, what causes it.
Isaiah 33:24 links sickness with our 'error'....this is our 'sin'. But it doesnt mean if i do something wrong today i'll get sick tomorrow. Rather its mankinds fall into sin that has introduced sickness into the world because sin is imperfection and imperfection leads to many problems both physically, mentally, emotional and spiritually. See Psalm 51:5

Secondly, we need to know if sickness fits into Gods purpose for us. If it is a part of his purpose then we could say sickness is quite normal, however, the scriptures show us that his purpose for us is to have perfect health.
See Revelation 21:3, 4 Just as Jesus cured the sick of their ailments, so too will God. Look back again at Isaiah 33.24 and he promises that in his new world 'no resident will say I am sick'

So obviously he does not want us to be sick and if he doesnt want us to be sick he certainly isnt going to give us sickness.
We can see from the scriptures that death and sickness comes from Adam in Romans 5:12

The greatest proof that we have about how God views our sickness is found in Jesus Christ himself. He was the perfect reflection of his heavenly father and he imiated his fathers will. Look at the way he treated the sick:
Mt 4:23, 24 Jesus spent a lot of energy in curing the sick
Lu 5:12, 13 jesus touches a man with leprosy, something forbidden by the mosaic law
Joh 9:1-7 Jesus says the mans blindness is not a result of any personal sin committed on his part.
Mt 8:14-17 Even Jesus associates experienced sickness....which he cured for them.
Php 2:25-30; 1Ti 5:23; 2Ti 4:20 Even these early christians suffered illnesses while they were busy in the lords work.
Ps 41:1-3 And this beautiful scripture shows that God is still near to those who are suffering illness so its evidence that the sickness is not because God has abandoned them or given them sickness because he is unhappy with them.

Ok and finally, Re 21:1-5 this scriptures shows us that when the purpose of God is realised, there will be no more sickness or death...he will permanently remove these side effects of sin so that we can live as we were meant to live. Until that time though, we need to keep our eyes focused on him and keep praying for that time to come and never loose faith that it will come.

I hope this will help your friend cope a little with her situation.

 

[meecrob]

Thank you soo much! You don't know how much that means to me, or to her! Her feelings have been really hurt lately, and though I know she will always love God, I fear that with the lack of support and blaming she gets from her relatives she feels like straying because she is not accepted.. and I do not want that for her.

Thank you so much!

 

[sniper762]

WHEN ONE "STUDIES" THE BIBLE, they should do so, first by reading it alone, under sincere prayer. once you have done that and have received "your" conception of its true meaning (hopefully through the inspiration of the holy ghost), then you can begin debating its issues with other's and researching other beliefs. if your faith in god and your sincerity is real, the holy spirit will provide you with the true understanding and steer you in the right direction.

 

[Martin W.]

I am going to make a broad generalization here.

First , I only read the parts of the bible I am interested in. Because I am interested , my mind soaks up everything.

Later my interest will change and then I will pursue that topic until I am satisfied.

In my case I have been reading the bible for 25 years and have covered most of it several times over. But only when I have the internal interest first. The bible refers to it as teaching to a prosperous heart. (prosperous to learn ).

Several times I have tried to discipline myself to read the whole bible cover to cover. By the time I get to Leviticus I am sound asleep. But if I stick to what has my interest at the time , I might stay up all night reading , and eagerly want more the next day. I prefer to be eager to learn rather than be forced to read.

I also find I have read the same thing many times over and all of a sudden something pops out that I had previously not paid much attention to. I think this is The Holy Spirit at work during those times. The scriptures were written by men inspired by The Holy Spirit , the same Spirit that can bring certain scriptures alive for the christian.

I think the biggest mistake we make is that we read the bible and want to apply our learning to someone else. This is the biggest error. The Holy Spirit wants to reach us as we read , not the neighbor down the road.

However if we have a friend or neighbor who is not a good reader , they may ask a bible question and only then should we "preach" to them. This can be successful because they have a "prosperous heart" to learn what the bible says regarding the question they have. Many people who are not good at reading also depend on Pastors' sermons for their learning. The Holy Spirit can work well in those situations also. Ever sat through a sermon where you could swear the Pastor was talking about you ?

I use something like a study bible because it gives me quick references to the things I am interested in that day and away I go reading.

I have yet to be interested in Leviticus. Maybe I will some day. In the meantime I find it is a good sleeping aid

Best wishes
Martin

 

[meecrob]

I am going to make a broad generalization here.

First , I only read the parts of the bible I am interested in. Because I am interested , my mind soaks up everything.

Later my interest will change and then I will pursue that topic until I am satisfied.

In my case I have been reading the bible for 25 years and have covered most of it several times over. But only when I have the internal interest first. The bible refers to it as teaching to a prosperous heart. (prosperous to learn ).

Several times I have tried to discipline myself to read the whole bible cover to cover. By the time I get to Leviticus I am sound asleep. But if I stick to what has my interest at the time , I might stay up all night reading , and eagerly want more the next day. I prefer to be eager to learn rather than be forced to read.

I also find I have read the same thing many times over and all of a sudden something pops out that I had previously not paid much attention to. I think this is The Holy Spirit at work during those times. The scriptures were written by men inspired by The Holy Spirit , the same Spirit that can bring certain scriptures alive for the christian.

I think the biggest mistake we make is that we read the bible and want to apply our learning to someone else. This is the biggest error. The Holy Spirit wants to reach us as we read , not the neighbor down the road.

However if we have a friend or neighbor who is not a good reader , they may ask a bible question and only then should we "preach" to them. This can be successful because they have a "prosperous heart" to learn what the bible says regarding the question they have. Many people who are not good at reading also depend on Pastors' sermons for their learning. The Holy Spirit can work well in those situations also. Ever sat through a sermon where you could swear the Pastor was talking about you ?

I use something like a study bible because it gives me quick references to the things I am interested in that day and away I go reading.

I have yet to be interested in Leviticus. Maybe I will some day. In the meantime I find it is a good sleeping aid

Best wishes
Martin

To each their own! It sounds to me like when you read parts of the bible, you don't read one sentence on page than scroll 22 pages over and read a couple random sentences from that page and etc. If that is what you do, my mistake. But I just fail to understand how that helps anyone fully understand the bible when they do that. I also feel like by doing that, it's easy for them to find wrong meanings..

I don't believe people should preach to other people either! Unless someone asks to be preached to, or if someone is defending their beliefs.

Maybe you could try to help me understand how what you do works for you, and how you are sure you getting the right messages.

I am new to this, and am still young. The people around me aren't very credible or "smart", so I have yet to understand how reading the bible like you do helps. I truely would like to, and I don't mean to offend you at all!

 

[fivesense]

To each their own! It sounds to me like when you read parts of the bible, you don't read one sentence on page than scroll 22 pages over and read a couple random sentences from that page and etc. If that is what you do, my mistake. But I just fail to understand how that helps anyone fully understand the bible when they do that. I also feel like by doing that, it's easy for them to find wrong meanings..

I don't believe people should preach to other people either! Unless someone asks to be preached to, or if someone is defending their beliefs.

Maybe you could try to help me understand how what you do works for you, and how you are sure you getting the right messages.

I am new to this, and am still young. The people around me aren't very credible or "smart", so I have yet to understand how reading the bible like you do helps. I truely would like to, and I don't mean to offend you at all!

Martin has a very good perspective Tree, and I know it does not jibe with your present beliefs about how to go about "reading the bible". I, too, approach the Scriptures as a miner in a coal mine, hoping to find a golden nugget of light to bring me into a better understanding of our Father, which is the common thing we all share. It is the desire to come into a realization of God. If a person believes every declaration of God, it is not the method so much as the intention behind Scripture study.

God was looking for His Son to rule 2000 years ago, and to fulfill His promises to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Instead, the Jews killed the Messiah, wrecking the best opportunity mankind ever had at relating to God. Consequently, God made a declaration apart from them, through the Apostle Paul, that the Gentiles whom He had chosen and certain Israelites were to comprise a Body for His Son, that would inhabit the heavens in newly created spirit bodies at a future time of His determination.

The things that Christ has inherited, we've inherited. Our sharing in that allotment will begin at our transformation or resurrection at His return. We will become as He is, a spirit being, serving Him in reconciling all things on earth and on-heavenly. The heavens are the domain of wicked and malignant forces that must come into Christ's subjection, and our place along side as His Body/Complement will be to assist in whatever way we can. Our experiences while on earth play a major role on our future expectation in Him. We are His workmanship created unto good works and are becoming conformed to His image through the struggles and trials He puts before us.

It is best to read Paul's letters first and foremost, and even get grounded thoroughly in his teachings before anything else. While it is a good thing to know the rest of the Bible, God's work in the earth for today can only be found in the writings of Paul, the apostle to the Nations. His commission came from no one but the Christ, who returned to earth in His glorified body to tell him the secrets of God. It is especially critical to understand his letter to the Romans. In it is revealed all that any person needs to know about salvation.

I share you sentiment about preaching to others, unless asked. It is uncomfortable to say the least, and everybody's place before God is different. Not all people are going to become Body members. It is up to God's personal choice and election. No one chooses Christ, it is the other way around. So unless God is drawing another and calling them into justification, we may be better off leaving it to God. I occasionally "fish" with people I've come to know, dropping hints and short questions pertaining to God, in order to get an idea of where they're at. Most are not interested in a conversation about God, preferring to clam up. It is not their time, and I am not the channel. That's how it is.

I am sorry that you are dwelling with a family that is bonkers. I myself have been bonkers on occasion, and I even slip into bonkedom now and then. It makes me totally useless to my family. So, I can relate to the Bonkers Family. I dwell on the kenosis of Christ when I feel surrounded by bonkerites:

YLT Phl 2:5 For, let this mind be in you that is also in Christ Jesus,

YLT Phl 2:6 who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal to God,

YLT Phl 2:7 but did empty himself, the form of a servant having taken, in the likeness of men having been made,

YLT Phl 2:8 and in fashion having been found as a man, he humbled himself, having become obedient unto death-death even of a cross,

YLT Phl 2:9 wherefore, also, God did highly exalt him, and gave to him a name that is above every name,

Meditating on the Logos being humiliated like that, the Creator leaving everything in His Father's control, and emptying Himself of every single glory He had, in order to suffer what He did, on our behalf. Not me, not in a thousand years would I even give you a dime if all you ever did to me was curse me and hate me and reject me. The kenosis of Christ, what a mystery.

fivesense

 

[sniper762]

it took me nearly a year to complete reading it "cover to cover" for i would not read any further until i was completely comfortable and questionless about what i had just read. it took me three months to get through genisis, alone. many read "over" something and never really comprehend what is said. just like when genisis describes the "firmament" being the space between the "waters above" and the "waters below"; this also being the space where god placed the sun and the moon. much investigation, research, study and pondering is required to put that into perspective and comprehension rather than just merely reading it.

how do you comprehend it, being a much more learned and knowledgeable man than moses was.

 

[meecrob]

it took me nearly a year to complete reading it "cover to cover" for i would not read any further until i was completely comfortable and questionless about what i had just read. it took me three months to get through genisis, alone. many read "over" something and never really comprehend what is said. just like when genisis describes the "firmament" being the space between the "waters above" and the "waters below"; this also being the space where god placed the sun and the moon. much investigation, research, study and pondering is required to put that into perspective and comprehension rather than just merely reading it.

how do you comprehend it, being a much more learned and knowledgeable man than moses was.

If that is sarcasm, implying that in anyway I tried to act superior, then it is uncalled for. I wasn't trying to be offensive with anything I said or asked. I asked to try to understand, even if I don't agree, with other peoples learning methods.

Perhaps when you read the bible "cover to cover", you had a harder time comprehending it than I do. Perhaps I read over some things. When I read the bible, I concentrate very hard on what I'm reading because I want to know everything about God that I possibly can; as well as, the Isrealites, and the history for back then.

I also never said I was only going to read it from beginning to end, and then be done. My full intentions are to continue reading it, the way I am, and then afterwards to go further in depth with studying it. Already from what I've read, I can understand a lot of things I didn't understand before. I want to know how it works for other people who do it differently. When I read the bible, answers come to me. Other people read it looking for answers. Since that doesn't work for me, and some of other peoples methods just don't seem to be right to me, I just want to understand.

Like I really appreciate what fivesense wrote. Though, fivesense may do it differently then me, I really appreciate him telling me about the importance of reading Paul, and the letters to the Romans. When I get there, I'll make sure to try my hardest not read over anything.

I never claimed to be more knowledgeable than Moses, nor tried acting that way. You shouldn't judge me ( if that's what you were doing ), because you don't know me. And Moses wasn't great for any ammount of knowledge he had anyway. He was great for being a great servant of our God. As a matter of fact, a lot of God's great men ( in the Old Testament, where I'm at ), aren't that "knowledgeable" anyway. They were humble, devoted servants to God, who without any doubt in God, put their lives in His hands and did what He asked of them.

I am not a man either. I am a woman, and I am very capable of being a very knowledgeable person. It is one of my gifts, thank you.

 

[meecrob]

Martin has a very good perspective Tree, and I know it does not jibe with your present beliefs about how to go about "reading the bible". I, too, approach the Scriptures as a miner in a coal mine, hoping to find a golden nugget of light to bring me into a better understanding of our Father, which is the common thing we all share. It is the desire to come into a realization of God. If a person believes every declaration of God, it is not the method so much as the intention behind Scripture study.

God was looking for His Son to rule 2000 years ago, and to fulfill His promises to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Instead, the Jews killed the Messiah, wrecking the best opportunity mankind ever had at relating to God. Consequently, God made a declaration apart from them, through the Apostle Paul, that the Gentiles whom He had chosen and certain Israelites were to comprise a Body for His Son, that would inhabit the heavens in newly created spirit bodies at a future time of His determination.

The things that Christ has inherited, we've inherited. Our sharing in that allotment will begin at our transformation or resurrection at His return. We will become as He is, a spirit being, serving Him in reconciling all things on earth and on-heavenly. The heavens are the domain of wicked and malignant forces that must come into Christ's subjection, and our place along side as His Body/Complement will be to assist in whatever way we can. Our experiences while on earth play a major role on our future expectation in Him. We are His workmanship created unto good works and are becoming conformed to His image through the struggles and trials He puts before us.

It is best to read Paul's letters first and foremost, and even get grounded thoroughly in his teachings before anything else. While it is a good thing to know the rest of the Bible, God's work in the earth for today can only be found in the writings of Paul, the apostle to the Nations. His commission came from no one but the Christ, who returned to earth in His glorified body to tell him the secrets of God. It is especially critical to understand his letter to the Romans. In it is revealed all that any person needs to know about salvation.

I share you sentiment about preaching to others, unless asked. It is uncomfortable to say the least, and everybody's place before God is different. Not all people are going to become Body members. It is up to God's personal choice and election. No one chooses Christ, it is the other way around. So unless God is drawing another and calling them into justification, we may be better off leaving it to God. I occasionally "fish" with people I've come to know, dropping hints and short questions pertaining to God, in order to get an idea of where they're at. Most are not interested in a conversation about God, preferring to clam up. It is not their time, and I am not the channel. That's how it is.

I am sorry that you are dwelling with a family that is bonkers. I myself have been bonkers on occasion, and I even slip into bonkedom now and then. It makes me totally useless to my family. So, I can relate to the Bonkers Family. I dwell on the kenosis of Christ when I feel surrounded by bonkerites:

YLT Phl 2:5 For, let this mind be in you that is also in Christ Jesus,

YLT Phl 2:6 who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal to God,

YLT Phl 2:7 but did empty himself, the form of a servant having taken, in the likeness of men having been made,

YLT Phl 2:8 and in fashion having been found as a man, he humbled himself, having become obedient unto death-death even of a cross,

YLT Phl 2:9 wherefore, also, God did highly exalt him, and gave to him a name that is above every name,

Meditating on the Logos being humiliated like that, the Creator leaving everything in His Father's control, and emptying Himself of every single glory He had, in order to suffer what He did, on our behalf. Not me, not in a thousand years would I even give you a dime if all you ever did to me was curse me and hate me and reject me. The kenosis of Christ, what a mystery.

fivesense

Thank you fivesense for your opinion and advice. I appreciate you explaining how you feel the importance of Paul and the letters to the Romans are. You do not seem to be bonkers like the people I am around. I wish I could better explain the people I am around all the time, but I don't want to write so horribly about them or seem judgemental.

You said, "It is the desire to come into a realization of God. If a person believes every declaration of God, it is not the method so much as the intention behind Scripture study."

If you don't read the bible from front to end, what if you read something in the New Testament that relates to the Old, and you missunderstood it? I am not saying you do, I just want to understand. I want to try to understand so I don't come off as thinking I am better. Even if I don't agree, I just want to see it from your point of view.

The people I am around, they only read in the New ( they think the Old isn't important ), and they jump pages throughout the New Testament, take what they get out of it, and act like they understand everything. When they talk about Religion, I can't even force myself to listen to them because what they say means nothing to me. I feel like they take God's name in vain everytime they talk about scriptures. I feel like they are doing a horrible job at representing themselves as God's loyal servants. And before you think I am being judgemental, they are very prideful people and think of themselves as all knowing and better.

They tell their sister that, "Well the bible says you wouldn't have Lupus if you weren't doing something wrong in your life! If you really believed in God he would take Lupus away from you!". To me, that's what you get when you only read parts of the bible.

God can do anything He wants. Nothing is too much or beyond our God. If He wanted to take Lupus away from my friend, YES I know He can. But my friend could be the best Christian in the world, and just because she prayed, doesn't mean He will. And everyone is sinners. No one is perfect. Her sins are no worse than mine. So to tell her she got it because she is doing something wrong, is wrong of them to say.

I feel so many people missuse scriptures nowadays. Even pastors, preachers, priests! The best thing anyone can do, if they can, is try to learn for themselves ( and get guidance from someone trustworthy if you need it ).

I have no idea why I am the person I am today. I can honestly say that when I was little, I know I had a great relationship with God. Words can't even describe it. I had a lot of bumpy roads because of Religious Fanatics (the Catholics in my family. And I mean they were FANATICS!) who made me hate myself all the time. Then I met my best friend, and her family went to a crazy Pentecostal church. When I say it was crazy, it was. The pastor cussed in church, told people anything bad in their lives was their faults, and to make sure to pay tithes!! THEN would talk about the VACATIONS he went on WITH tithes. Not traveling to go and do the better work of God, NO. Vacations like surfboarding and boating!! And I'd look at my friends family and they were all into it like the pastor wasn't cussing!! My opinion about speaking in tongues, the way pentecostals do, is still incomplete. I haven't learned enough about it yet to have an opinion about it. But my common sense tells me a lady jumping saying "I WAS A LESBIAN" and then running around like an Indian is not right.

I am sorry for rambling. I've never really had anyone to talk to. Anyone around me who tries to preach to me, I turn them away because I don't feel they're credible enough to. I'm trying my hardest to learn everything I can for myself. But I love this website, because there are so many people who seem so awesome. And it's nice to talk about things, even if other people don't agree, or I don't agree. Thank you for your time!

 

[ronniechoate34]

Thank you for both of your responses! And to fivesense, I understand what you are saying by not ignoring a person for preaching, for I could miss something if they were good, and I agree. I just mean that, I know A LOT of Christian people who don't read the bible as history, or the full stories, they just read bits and parts and start telling you what you're doing wrong and stuff. Pegg, I also agree with you about having a bible study. After I read the bible for the first time, the second time will be more studying. I already have a bible time line and other books to help me better understand it. And I'll also be checking those studies, as best as I can, to make sure they factual.

I just can't understand if I'm not the only one who feels this way, why do so people just read lines of the bible and start condeming people?

I stay in a house full of great people, but their hypocricy is horrid. None of them (except the father), reads the whole bible, and they ALL condemn eachother! They don't believe that we all have our time to go, which to me is like not believing in God's will, they believe their sister got Lupus because she "MUST be a bad Christain or God would take it away!", 1 of the sisters had a misscarriage and the other sister said "it happened to her because she was living a life of sin", then that same sister too possibly had a misscarriage this year, one sister believes that if someone tries to shoot her and she says "I repent you!", that they WILL NOT NO MATTER WHAT shoot her.. OH and one sister believes it's totally okay to pray to win the lottery and God will answer her when she gets rid of sin in her life. I just.. I know that God is a powerful God, and there is nothing He can't do.. so if He wants for any of the above to be true, it can be true. To just ASSUME that it all is, seems prideful and and pitiful to me though. When I made a statement about it being someones time to go, one of the sisters started snapping on me saying that isn't true, and then telling me that "The bible isn't meant to be read like a book!! If you have a question, you use it to find the answers".. Which I ALSO disagree with because if you don't understand the full story, and you read a line that relates to your question, what if you don't understand it and misuse it? Ugh.. So much I've been wanting to discuss!

All of the Bible study in the world won't do you a lick of good unless you've got the Holy Ghost to actually guide you into the right understanding of the Word.


Many people believe they know the Word but there are things that are hidden from them by the power of almighty God.


It's all in how we approach God. If we come to Him with iniquities and pride before us then God has a plan for us. And since God does not do a thing without warning, we must concern ourselves with the following scriptures.


Eze:14:6: Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Repent, and turn yourselves from your idols; and turn away your faces from all your abominations.
Eze:14:7: For every one of the house of Israel, or of the stranger that sojourneth in Israel, which separateth himself from me, and setteth up his idols in his heart, and putteth the stumblingblock of his iniquity before his face, and cometh to a prophet to enquire of him concerning me; I the LORD will answer him by myself:
Eze:14:8: And I will set my face against that man, and will make him a sign and a proverb, and I will cut him off from the midst of my people; and ye shall know that I am the LORD.
Eze:14:9: And if the prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the LORD have deceived that prophet, and I will stretch out my hand upon him, and will destroy him from the midst of my people Israel.
Eze:14:10: And they shall bear the punishment of their iniquity: the punishment of the prophet shall be even as the punishment of him that seeketh unto him;
Eze:14:11: That the house of Israel may go no more astray from me, neither be polluted any more with all their transgressions; but that they may be my people, and I may be their God, saith the Lord GOD.


Proud Christians who refuse to hear the true Word of God, and that are being deceived by corrupted bibles and doctrines need to examine themselves well by holding themselves to the flame of truth.


2Co:13:5: Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

 

[sniper762]

sorry to assume you were a man, and by no way do i belittle your intelligence. can you or anyone else answer my question of how the subject, i mentioned is comprehended?

 

[fivesense]

Tree, I am blessed at your ability and willingness to be vulnerable with your life. Coming to grips with what our makeup is can be unsettling at times. Being too self-focused is a sure way to lose track of the calling of God, and all that it means to be sanctified. You apprehend some of the more sure things of God, as your confidence in Him is certain and valid.

One of the chief things that we, as Gentiles, need to understand about God is that we were not included in any of His works prior to the crucifixion. It is there that all humanity entered into a crisis of judgment, not merely Israel, with God. Up til that point, the nations were without God and had no access to Him without following the Chosen People.

The so-called Old Testament, a man-made term to describe the ancient Hebrew Scrolls, is a record of the history of God meeting with man and His various points of revelation to him. He chose Israel as the channel of that revelation. There were no other revelations taking place in the earth. His dealings with them as a demonstration of man's inability to save himself or be holy unto the Creator is detailed in that Record with extreme accuracy. He has preserved it miraculously for thousands of years. That we have access to it is to be greatly appreciated by us.

The Greek Scriptures, referred to as the "New Testament", mark the beginning of His operations apart from the Jew and introduces the message of Paul for the nations, which was kept secret until Paul revealed it. A joint spirit body of believers, Jew and Gentile, on the same footing in divine service to God. This was never mentioned anywhere in the OT by the prophets of God. It was secretly kept in the heart of God until after Jesus' glorification.

The New Testament Hebrew writers (Peter,James,Jude,John, and the writer of Hebrews) speak to the Jews in their letters. This will be readily seen in the titles penned at the beginning of the letters, and their content. While there are many great truths about God in them, they were not written to us, they are Jewish and remain so. Only the letters of Paul have any significance for us. To try and apply Hebrew doctrine to our Apostles' teaching, i.e. faith without works is dead, is to confuse the truth for today.

The Hebrew Greek letters were written for the chosen people of the past, and will become needful in God's workings during the time of the end, after the Body has been removed from the earth, the element that is detaining the man of lawlessness from arising. Again, I add, that all of God's word is inspired, useful for instruction and doctrine and establishing us in righteousness, but they were not all written to us. This is rightly dividing the word of Truth.(2Tim 2:15)

Without a firm underpinning of Paul's doctrine and commands, time spent in study of the word of God can bring about a good deal of confusion. The tendency of those who do not understand the ministry of Paul is to mix Jewish truths with ours, and the result is error and confusion. Today's truth is lost out on trying to purloin what belongs to Israel. Such is the case with the spiritual endowments of the Pentecostal period. They were meant to announce the coming of the Kingdom of God, and the presence of the Lord on earth. But we all know that did not occur. Consequently they have receded and are inoperative in the ecclesia, until the nearing of the Kingdom comes once more.
They were Jewish endowments to be used for discipling the nations under them, but with their refusal of the re-offering of the Kingdom through the Twelve, Israel became hearing and not hearing, seeing and not seeing once more. The gifts subsided, and faith, expectation, and love became the only abiding elements of service towards God.

YLT 1C 13:8 . The love doth never fail; and whether there be prophecies, they shall become useless; whether tongues, they shall cease; whether knowledge, it shall become useless;

YLT 1C 13:9 for in part we know, and in part we prophecy;

YLT 1C 13:10 and when that which is perfect may come, then that which is in part shall become useless.

YLT 1C 13:13 and now there doth remain faith, hope, love-these three; and the greatest of these is love.

The creation of the new humanity, formed in the image of Christ Jesus, has already been bestowed upon us from above. It is perfection in an imperfect flesh body right now, but at the resurrection that will be changed. The perfect, in spirit, has already come. If any man be in Christ, he is a new creation, (2C 5:17) and this is an absolute truth. We belong to another realm and await a future time when Christ is King over all. Our citizenship is in the celestials, the ( Phl 3:20) heavens. The exhibition of the spiritual endowments is useless and out of place in this economy. It is taking from one era, and trying to make it fit in with the new creation. It is old and impotent, and not of God. This is the cause of great confusion and is perpetuated through pentecostal sectarianism.

Keep earnestly seeking after Him, and I appluad your honesty and desire for the things of God. You are in a race to receive an award at the end of days for the Gentiles, and, to have been chosen by God to come to Him and serve Him is without a doubt the most valuable thing you have in your life.

fivesense

 

[brionne]

I have no idea why I am the person I am today. I can honestly say that when I was little, I know I had a great relationship with God. Words can't even describe it. I had a lot of bumpy roads because of Religious Fanatics (the Catholics in my family. And I mean they were FANATICS!) who made me hate myself all the time. Then I met my best friend, and her family went to a crazy Pentecostal church. When I say it was crazy, it was. The pastor cussed in church, told people anything bad in their lives was their faults, and to make sure to pay tithes!! THEN would talk about the VACATIONS he went on WITH tithes. Not traveling to go and do the better work of God, NO. Vacations like surfboarding and boating!! And I'd look at my friends family and they were all into it like the pastor wasn't cussing!! My opinion about speaking in tongues, the way pentecostals do, is still incomplete. I haven't learned enough about it yet to have an opinion about it. But my common sense tells me a lady jumping saying "I WAS A LESBIAN" and then running around like an Indian is not right.

Hi Tree,

It sounds like you are having a crisis of conscience at the moment and its easy to see why. On one hand your conscience tells you one thing about what you think God and religion should be like. But the reality of what you are experiencing is entirely opposite.

this says a lot about you as a person. You are mature enough to know hypocrisy when you see it. You know enough about God to determine that the behavior of some of your religious family is not what he would approve of and you are spritually awake enough to be trying to help your friend with her own health problem.

You have a lot to cope with yourself and you still have time for your friend. This is what Christianity is about. Keep these words of the Apostle Paul in mind Hebrews 10:39

You are not shrinking back, rather you are searching for answers...keep searching and keep asking God for guidance because he is always looking for an opportunity to lend you a helpiing hand.

 

[6stringedsignseeker]

  I personally think the bible should be read as a whole. It's good to know scriptures and verses, but if you know verses here and there, but don't take in what is before, after, and around those verses then you have the danger of taking something out of context and not getting the full meaning of what the bible tells us.