i'll pray for you.
ive been saved and forgiven of my sins. i WILL sin no more and will remain sinless. you should also
ive been saved and forgiven of my sins. i WILL sin no more and will remain sinless. you should also
Reading The Bible.
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Mat 16:13 When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?
Mat 16:14 And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.
Mat 16:15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
Mat 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
Mat 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
What is said, here, where did Peter get the knowledge from, not the scriptures, no Jesus sid it was revelation, an then He says its upon this rock ( revelation) I will build My church. Not knowldege. People are filled with the head knowledge of Christ but yet they do not know Him, to be filled with Chrit we must be emptied of ourselves, I went to chruch for 22 years and knew about Jesus then like Paul i got a revelaton from Him, now I Know Christ, crucified, this you cannot learn from reading. Look at the pharisees, they had the Torah, they knew it like the back of their hands, and what did Jesus tell them
Joh 8:41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.
Joh 8:42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
Joh 8:43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
Joh 8:45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.
Joh 8:46 Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?
Joh 8:47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.
satan knows the bible better then you. if the bible was all the truth and all from God there would be no division,nor confusion, does it not say God is not the author of confusion, if that is true, why are we all so confused if He was teh author.
In Hs LOve
Mat 16:14 And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.
Mat 16:15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
Mat 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
Mat 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
What is said, here, where did Peter get the knowledge from, not the scriptures, no Jesus sid it was revelation, an then He says its upon this rock ( revelation) I will build My church. Not knowldege. People are filled with the head knowledge of Christ but yet they do not know Him, to be filled with Chrit we must be emptied of ourselves, I went to chruch for 22 years and knew about Jesus then like Paul i got a revelaton from Him, now I Know Christ, crucified, this you cannot learn from reading. Look at the pharisees, they had the Torah, they knew it like the back of their hands, and what did Jesus tell them
Joh 8:41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.
Joh 8:42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
Joh 8:43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
Joh 8:45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.
Joh 8:46 Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?
Joh 8:47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.
satan knows the bible better then you. if the bible was all the truth and all from God there would be no division,nor confusion, does it not say God is not the author of confusion, if that is true, why are we all so confused if He was teh author.
In Hs LOve
you quote: If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
ok paul, ive done what god asked of me, i believe that im what he said i'd be and if ive been deceived and the truth is not in me, then so be it. ive done all i know to do, that which i believe is right, so i cannot and will not change, therefore i am destined to my future.
ok paul, ive done what god asked of me, i believe that im what he said i'd be and if ive been deceived and the truth is not in me, then so be it. ive done all i know to do, that which i believe is right, so i cannot and will not change, therefore i am destined to my future.
forgivenWretch
New Member
The bible is as important to one as is having the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is the guide, which leads us through the bible.
Nah ,
Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
He said He would teach us all things, never did Jesus ever mention the bible it was never written, yet,
Joh 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come
The Holy spirirt was sent to teach us the truth, not the bible.
In His LOve
I beg to differ, did Abraham have any scripture let alone a bible? Sure the scriptures are great for instruction and a fabulous blessing. But just look at what Jesus says to each of the seven churches.
"Anyone who is willing to hear should listen to the Spirit and understand what the Spirit is saying to the churches."
If the it is impossible to know God without the bible than there are many who are in trouble because they couldn't read or were mentally challenged.
Isn't this a form of gnosticism? Paul said that knowledge puffs up but love edifies. Is it possible to love without reading scripture?
the grace of God knows no bounds. If a person is mentally handicapped then my heart tells me that God will not be holding that person to account for anything....just as he doesnt hold a young child to account.
The knowledge that Paul was challenging was false knowledge 1Timothy 6:20-21 And empty deception such as philiosophy Colossians 2:8
On the other hand, Gods written word sanctifies us (if we apply it of course) because it is a product of holy spirit. It gives us instant access to the leadings of that spirit John 17:17
And it must be good for us otherwise Satan would not have tried so ferociously to destroy it during the dark ages.
Well said.
the grace of God knows no bounds. If a person is mentally handicapped then my heart tells me that God will not be holding that person to account for anything....just as he doesnt hold a young child to account.
The knowledge that Paul was challenging was false knowledge 1Timothy 6:20-21 And empty deception such as philiosophy Colossians 2:8
On the other hand, Gods written word sanctifies us (if we apply it of course) because it is a product of holy spirit. It gives us instant access to the leadings of that spirit John 17:17
And it must be good for us otherwise Satan would not have tried so ferociously to destroy it during the dark ages.
Well said.
But is there scriptural support for this premise of small children or mentally handicapped? I haven't found any, myself.
As far as scriptures being the product of HolySpirit I agree concerning the originals but I don't apply it to the various translations of the bible. IMO the Word of God that sanctifies us is Jesus the Christ. Jesus said He is the Truth.
That is why Revelation says: 19:12, "And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
Rev 19:12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
Do You, mjrhealth, know what that name is? I know it, Do you study the Word? Do you know it?
The proposition that children and the mentally challenged do not come into God's judgment cannot be sustained by Scripture. The difficulty of assigning them to a state of endless torment is understandable. Yet such must be the conclusion for those who hold to the doctrine of eternal damnation. God is not a waffler. His pronouncement to allow only those who believe on His Son to enjoy immortality in the next age cannot be abrogated by human sentiment.
The incongruity of the false teaching of eternal damnation of the lost, and the goal of God to reconcile all things on earth and in the heavens is felt most sharply when it comes to this group who know not the Christ of God. Those who desire the truth will not rest in their hearts and minds til they have made a commitment to God to believe what He has spoken through the Apostle Paul:
For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether [they be] thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all [things] he might have the preeminence. For it pleased [the Father] that in him should all fulness dwell;
And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, [I say], whether [they be] things in earth, or things in heaven. Col 1:16-20
I hope you underestand Jiggyfly
fivesense
Well think about it this way, the cammand that Jesus gave his diciples to 'go and make diciples' Matt. 28:19, 20 could not have included babies and the mentally handicapped for good reason.
To be a diciples means to be a 'taught one' This requires a person to have their thinking faculties in tact and an ability to learn. Then to be baptized requires that such a person makes a dedication to God to do his will. If you consider Jesus, he didnt get baptized until the time was right for him to begin his ministry...that was at age 30. Babies or the mentally deficient are not capable of such a dedication nor are they capable of learning the way an adult would learn.
Now a God of love and mercy would not hold these ones to account if they were not capable of knowing and meeting the requirements of God. So really its knowledge that makes us accountable as James 4:17 shows....'if one KNOWS how to do what is right but does not do it, it is a sin for him'
We dont really know exactly how God will deal with the handicapped at Armageddon, but what we can be sure of is that they will not be held accountable for what they are incapable of knowing.
Jas 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
Whats it with Jesus, that no one wants Him, how do you know someone, you spend time weith them, and how is it that a book can replace time with Jesus, And how would it be, when you finally see Him in all His glory, and you say to Him, Hi Jesus, read all about you, wanst I so good,", and His answer, " daily I called, but you wouldnt come, daily I spoke to you but you wouldnt listen, daily I asked for your time, but you would not give it, be gone from me for i do not know you". How hard would that be to take,. Was our Lords death in vain, that you would rather read about Him, then hear from Him, or is it that He is dead to you. Trillions of people know the name of Jesus, but very few know Him at all, because as He said, they worship me with their mouths but their hearts are far from me.
I am the way I am the Truth I am the Life, He is the only way, He is the only truth, and the only life you will ever get, is when you go to Him so that He can give you life.
Joh 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
Joh 5:40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.
How these words still ring true
In His LOve
[sup]16[/sup]All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, [sup]17[/sup]that the man of God may be competent, equipped for every good work.
2 Timothy 3:16,17
2 Timothy 3:16,17
not at all
Jesus is certainly the way the truth and the life...however, this does not mean that the written word of God is not needed.
If, as you say, it is not needed by us who put faith in Jesus, it certainly would not have been needed by Jesus himself and YET Jesus used the word of God to teach people Luke 4:16-17. He explained the scriptures Matthew 12:3,4,5 and read from the scriptures publically and showed that he knew the scriptures very well by quoting from them regularly when questioned. He even condemned the religious leaders for putting the words of men before the word of God at Matthew 15:3,6
he used Gods written word because he recognized it as a source of truth John 17:17
If someone comes up with a teaching, how would we know if the teaching is from God or not without the bible?
I understand your perspective on this and see how you reason this out and where you are coming from but I still fail to see any good scriptural basis to support it.
The scriptures do not contain life or power to bring about spiritual life in anyone.So the scriptures are not the Living Word but they are a testimony of the Living Word Jesus the Christ and son of God. The scriptures are given to encourage us to seek life from the One who is Life and base our faith on our experiences with Him. To base our faith on the scriptures is to base your faith on someone else's experience with Him and IMO this rarely leads to anyone to experiencing the Christ. Look at the pharisees, they had base their faith and trust in the scriptures and rejected the Christ who was standing right in front of them.
Now the other topic of how God will relate to young children I agree we don't know from the scriptures specifically how God will deal with these or those, but if we respond from the encouragement that the scriptures lend we will relate to Father, build a direct and intimate relationship with Him and through our experiences with Him we can know how He will deal with these people.
IMO if we limit God's communication with us to the scriptures then we misunderstand the intent of the wonderful gift of the scriptures. There is a huge difference between knowing someone and knowing about someone.
Yes they do and I am unable to figure out why you can’t see it. The text you quote say, the Scripture testifies of Christ. It is not an either/or thing, it’s both/and. We know who Christ is because of His Word, because He is the Living Word. No one worships a book, we worship the God of the Book. He reveals Himself in His Book! The book, Scripture, apart from Him is meaningless that is why those that do not know Christ as Savior and Lord do not understand the Book.
No! The Word of God Does NOT contradict itself. Any seeming contradiction is from our lack of understanding of His Word.
Hello Pegg. I hold what you say in high regard. Your understanding and knowledge of God is true and obvious. Your discernment is evident. I am not seeking to disrupt, but to reinforce what you already know, through having read the Scriptures.
As to the first statement, I concur fully. And the words of Scripture are to your favor in this regard:
But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile Ro 2:8-9
There is little in the way of evil that can be done by these helpless ones, therefore God does not hold them in charge for what they did not bring to effect. Tribulation and anguish is for those who effect evil, and the infant and mentally unsound cannot be responsible for what is not in their control, for their acts of evil, to whatever degree, are not within their conscious control.
However, there is not a passage of the Writings that distinguishes between adult and infant, young or old, mature or immature in regard to judgment. The rations of sin is death, and it is the fate of all who are born into this world. All die.
The second death, the lake of fire, is the portion of all who do not come into the enjoyment of deathlessness through believing on the Son of God. There is no other name under heaven, and no other way to the Father. Those who do not, or cannot know Him, will not share in the life to come, the thousand years of His Kingdom on earth and in the heavens.
It may be that you cling to the notion that there is a "hell" of torment and suffering after the second resurrection. It is not so. There is judgment and death, instant and merciful death, in the lake of fire, the second death. The falsehood of some "spiritual" death or non-physical form of it, is not scriptural but mere fancy. Death has always meant death, the cessation of life, whenever spoken of in the Scriptures. There is no life beyond the second death. Three named ones are alive in the lake of fire, but no others are stated as being alive there. It says their portion is with those three, not that they are alive.
Re 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters,
and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
The suffering of these second resurrection individuals will be there at the judgment of the great White Throne.
Re 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is [the book] of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works
Re 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
AV Re 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
I want you to ponder this in your thoughts. These ones will be raised out of death, where they were asleep and oblivious to anything. In an instant, they will be standing among myriads of peoples, maybe associates or enemies, and before their eyes and all their physical senses will be the Creator and Giver of life. Paul briefly saw the Lord and lost his eyesight, the glory of the Lord being unbearable. Who art thou, was Paul's response, and such will be the response of all who are raised up before Him in that day. They will see, they will know, they will sorrow, they will tremble, they will fall down broken and humiliated for all the evil they effected.
Those who come before the Throne who are hardly guilty of any such things will not be so undone and dismayed. They shall see the mercy of God, and His justice towards them. Their portion, however long, will be according to God's merciful judgment.
And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not [himself], neither did according to his will,
shall be beaten with many [stripes]. But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten
with few [stripes]. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much,
of him they will ask the more. Lk 12:47-48
I will point out to you this, that there is no place in the Scriptures, when properly understood, that describes a place of "eternal torment". It is the fabrication of human reasoning, and not substantiated in the Word of God. After their portion in the lake of fire, all will return to God the Father justified, vivified and glorified in order to fulfill this mandate of God which will not be broken:
1C 15:25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
1C 15:26 The last enemy [that] shall be destroyed [is] death.
1C 15:27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under [him, it is] manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
1C 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
It is the failure of the saints to believe God, and to rely on human reasoning, that this whole subject of infant death is so difficult. God is merciful, but He is also just, and has determined that only a portion shall enjoy life with His Son for certain ages. But for the rest of those who have not secured that privilege, there is an unspecified duration of death, and then comes the consummation of all things, when the Father becomes All in all. This is the Word of God.
Will you believe God?
hi fivesense,
i think you may have misunderstood me. What you've stated here is exactly what I was saying regarding those who dont have the capability of learning about God either because they are too young or to handicapped.
I dont believe in eternal torment, im aware that hell is simply the common grave and its where we go when we die.
Im 100% convinced that Gods mercy will be on such ones which is why I stated in my previous post that God 'will not hold such ones to account for thier sin'
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