Reason for The Crusades explained

[Wrangler]

I said no to your interpretation.

Agh huh. No interpretation whatsoever! Here's the review of the exchange.

What is the response to cruelty taught by Jesus?

let the one who has no sword sell his cloak and buy one.
Luke 22:36

It's you who are interpreting what Jesus taught as cruelty.

 

[Matthias]

Agh huh. No interpretation whatsoever! Here's the review of the exchange.




It's you who are interpreting what Jesus taught as cruelty.

No. I pointed out to @GodsGrace why Jesus instructed them to purchase swords, alluding to his own words on the matter. (See post #100.) It has nothing to do with cruelty. At no point did Jesus ever instruct his disciples to be cruel.

 

[GodsGrace]

No. I pointed out to @GodsGrace why Jesus instructed them to purchase swords, alluding to his own words on the matter. (See post #100.) It has nothing to do with cruelty. At no point did Jesus ever instruct his disciples to be cruel.

Can't reply now.
Why did Jesus instruct to buy swords?
Tomorrow....

 

[Matthias]

Can't reply now.
Why did Jesus instruct to buy swords?

To fulfill a prophecy about him.

Tomorrow....

 

[Wrangler]

Any “Christian” who can justify participation in this world’s conflicts, are not obeying the direct teachings of Jesus Christ found in the writings of his disciples.

You can't even admit there is such a thing as Christian nations. Jesus isn't a king of burgers!

 

[Wrangler]

It has nothing to do with cruelty.

YOU are the one who introduced the notion of cruelty into the discuss of the Crusades! So, that tells me your Strawman argument has EVERYTHING to do with cruelty.

And this reveals agains the over-spiritualized who falsely equate defending oneself against barbarians is in any way immoral.

 

[Matthias]

YOU are the one who introduced the notion of cruelty into the discuss of the Crusades!

No. It is alluded to in the OP. It’s a simple matter of history that the Crusaders were cruel; just as cruel as the Muslims were.

So, that tells me your Strawman argument has EVERYTHING to do with cruelty.

Take that up with General Sherman some day, if you have the opportunity.

And this reveals agains the over-spiritualized who falsely equate defending oneself against barbarians is in any way immoral.

Did Jesus defend himself against the pagan Romans? Did the apostles defend themselves against the pagans (Roman and non-Roman) whom they preached to?

You also saw me say, or should have, that love requires action, not inaction. I would defend myself (and others) but not by killing anyone.

I would point out to @GodsGrace that just because you aren’t a trinitarian doesn’t mean that you and I are of the same spirit. We aren’t.

 

[Chihuahua]

People are discussing real history and hypothetical situations (application) in this thread. Both are important.

Yes and you are not one of them with your made up stories.

 

[Chihuahua]

These are a couple of effective but not too graphically explicit photographs (from Hiroshima) that I can think of to provide.

View attachment 75162

View attachment 75161

* This is “penny ante” level of harmful compared to what man is capable of doing now. *

This isn’t “DO NO HARM”. This is “DO MASSIVE HARM”.

The atomic bomb barely ended the war. It was no worse than other bombing raids. But some people are emotional and not rational.

 

[Matthias]

Yes and you are not one of them with your made up stories.

I haven’t made up any stories and I’ve been discussing real history - biblical and post-biblical.

What is your real issue with me? Is it simply because I’m not a trinitarian?

 

[Aunty Jane]

Totally true. the Bible teaches of a military conquering Messiah. Do you deny this?

In the context of mere human conflicts over land grabs and resource materials that other nations want to steal....I cannot agree, as there is no sanction for Christians to engage in any bloodshed. No Christian can even train to kill in the military as it shows intent to kill, often in the most heinous ways. Pre-meditated murder is the worst crime one can commit. To train and practice to kill other humans is something a genuine Christian could never do.
All who obey Jesus will be conscientious objectors.

As for Jesus as a “conquering Messiah”, I do absolutely agree.... but his army are not human.....they are angelic. Their warfare is sanctioned.....just as Israel’s wars were.....man’s political wars are not.

And the final “war of the great day of Jehovah” is not fought by us. It is God’s war against all whom satan has influenced in his violent world.....that is not the world God wanted us to live in...remember that he gave the first humans paradise as their home....that is what Jesus came to give us back....a beautiful peaceful world with no dissenters or reasons for conflict. (Rev 21:2-4) But only those who obey him will reap that reward. Those with blood on their hands, even by consent to others participating in the warfare, are equally guilty of disobedience. God takes no sides in any human conflict. And if Christians are killing their fellow Christians that is even more reason for him to reject them.

“If anyone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen cannot love God whom he has not seen. And this commandment we have from him: whoever loves God must also love his brother.” (1 John 4:20-21 ESV)

You can argue with me.....or you can argue with Jesus......your call....

 

[Matthias]

The atomic bomb barely ended the war. It was no worse than other bombing raids. But some people are emotional and not rational.

No worse than other bombing raids? That’s preposterous.

 

[Aunty Jane]

The atomic bomb barely ended the war. It was no worse than other bombing raids.

Oh dear.....rationalising the most heinous of weaponry that the world had ever seen at that time, really shows how indoctrinated you are...... have you heard of a Pyrrhic victory? Look it up...

But some people are emotional and not rational.

Who is more emotional and irrational than a blind patriot? Patriotism can justify what Christianity condemns.

 

[Chihuahua]

You’re new here, so I’ll give you a pass.

What are you, a teenager? Answer the question. Killed you for what? What location and what conditions?

No. It’s a long story and you obviously don’t know the details.

What you do know is that I’m not a trinitarian.

You aren't saying anything but your own made up history.

 

[Wrangler]

Can't reply now.
Why did Jesus instruct to buy swords?
Tomorrow....

Don't you just love the logic? He told us to sell our cloak and buy swords not to be cruel but to reflect his own words and teachings. Whatever the heck that means. Subterfuge, anyone?

And then there's the complete denial of the principle reason Jews do not accept Jesus; the Messiah is a military conquering hero. And we all know military conquering heroes are not cruel (whatever than means) in achieving their ends.

 

[Wrangler]

As for Jesus as a “conquering Messiah”, I do absolutely agree.... but his army are not human.....they are angelic. Their warfare is sanctioned.....just as Israel’s wars were.....man’s political wars are not.

Sanctioned? Joan of Ark's human conquering was sanctioned. Sad but predictable you take Liberty as Slavery. We are not free to establish Christian nations but enslaved to any human violence by barbarians as we waited upon satisfactory sanction. Yea, right!

 

[Matthias]

What are you, a teenager?

No.

Answer the question. Killed you for what?

Killed for being antitrinitarian.

What location and what conditions?

“If I had lived then” = If had lived at the time of the Crusades and come into contact with the Crusaders.

You aren't saying anything but your own made up history.

I haven’t made up history.

 

[Chihuahua]

No worse than other bombing raids? That’s preposterous.

Speaking of not knowing history:

he Great Tokyo Air Raid (Operation Meetinghouse)
The most destructive attack, known as "Operation Meetinghouse," occurred on the night of March 9-10, 1945.

• Tactics: American B-29 Superfortress bombers, flying at low altitudes to avoid the jet stream winds that had hampered earlier high-altitude precision bombings, dropped thousands of M69 incendiary bombs (cluster bombs containing napalm) on the densely populated, largely wooden residential and industrial districts of eastern Tokyo.
• The Firestorm: The incendiaries created a massive firestorm, fanned by strong winds, that overwhelmed the city's minimal civil defenses and fire brigades. Temperatures in some areas reached 1,800 °F (980 °C).
• Casualties and Damage:
  • An estimated 100,000 civilians were killed in the single night, a death toll higher than either of the atomic bombings of Hiroshima or Nagasaki.
  • Over one million people were left homeless.
  • Approximately 16 square miles (41 sq km) of the city were incinerated, including a significant portion of the city's light industry that supported Japan's war effort.

How is that foot tasting in your mouth? You have no knowledge of such basic history.

 

[Chihuahua]

No.

Then don't write like one.

Being antitrinitarian.




“If I had lived then” = If had lived at the time of the Crusades and come into contact with the Crusaders.

Pleasse, put it in historical context instead of making vague claims.

I haven’t made up history.

You just embarassed yourself on the atomic bombs.

 

[Matthias]

Speaking of not knowing history:

he Great Tokyo Air Raid (Operation Meetinghouse)
The most destructive attack, known as "Operation Meetinghouse," occurred on the night of March 9-10, 1945.

• Tactics: American B-29 Superfortress bombers, flying at low altitudes to avoid the jet stream winds that had hampered earlier high-altitude precision bombings, dropped thousands of M69 incendiary bombs (cluster bombs containing napalm) on the densely populated, largely wooden residential and industrial districts of eastern Tokyo.
• The Firestorm: The incendiaries created a massive firestorm, fanned by strong winds, that overwhelmed the city's minimal civil defenses and fire brigades. Temperatures in some areas reached 1,800 °F (980 °C).
• Casualties and Damage:
  • An estimated 100,000 civilians were killed in the single night, a death toll higher than either of the atomic bombings of Hiroshima or Nagasaki.
  • Over one million people were left homeless.
  • Approximately 16 square miles (41 sq km) of the city were incinerated, including a significant portion of the city's light industry that supported Japan's war effort.

How is that foot tasting in your mouth? You have no knowledge of such basic history.

Nuclear weapons are far more powerful than conventional weapons.