Reason for The Crusades explained

[David in NJ]

@Matthias

Liked your anthem

This is my choice

 

[Wrangler]

The Crusaders lived by the sword and died by the sword.

What are you brainwashed? They lived by the sword.

Jesus didn’t command them to do it.

He commanded we buy a sword for just such a situation.

Now your doing laps on ground already covered.

 

[Wrangler]

I used the search terms “Were atrocities committed by Muslims at the time of the Crusades?” and here is what I received -

“Yes, atrocities were committed by Muslims during the Crusades

Really? That’s the best question you could come up with? Muslims slaughtered, raped, forced conversations and conquered Christian nations for centuries before the Crusades.

Muslims committed atrocities against Christians for centuries before the Crusades. Your blaming the victim for finally fighting back.

 

[Wrangler]

It is very obvious that the mind set of those who claim to be “Christians” but who prove false to it in their attitudes and actions

Agreed.

 

[Matthias]

What are you brainwashed? They lived by the sword.

The apostles and early Christians didn’t live by the sword. The Crusaders lived by the sword and died by the sword.

He commanded we buy a sword for just such a situation.

I’ve already addressed this comment.

Now your doing laps on ground already covered.

See above.

 

[Matthias]

Really? That’s the best question you could come up with?

For someone who already knew the information and didn’t bother to do for me what I did for you, yes.

Muslims slaughtered, raped, forced conversations and conquered Christian nations for centuries before the Crusades.

They did.

Muslims committed atrocities against Christians for centuries before the Crusades.

They did.

Your blaming the victim for finally fighting back.

I’m blaming the victims for doing to their enemies what their enemies did to them. Treat your enemy as your enemy treats you is not what Jesus and the apostles taught the disciples to do; it’s not what Jesus and the apostles did when they were mistreated.

Suffering at the hands of enemies, not inflicting suffering on enemies, is the example set for disciples in NT scripture.

 

[Matthias]

Paul wasn’t brainwashed when he said, “We do not use the weapons of the world”. The disciples weren’t and aren’t brainwashed when they refuse to use the weapons of the world.

Jesus wasn’t brainwashed when he said, “Put away your sword” and “Those who live by the sword will die by the sword.” The disciples weren’t and aren’t brainwashed when they practice and teach others “Put away your sword” and “Those who live by the sword die by the sword.”

Those who choose to go a different way are following in the steps of the pope.

 

[Matthias]

There is nothing a Christian (or a non-Christian) could do to me that would cause me to kill or wound them with the sword. Christian members who are opposing me on this simple teaching of the Messiah and the apostles can’t make the same statement.

 

[Matthias]

Does anyone wonder why clergy / chaplains are noncombatants in war?

Apparently not. That’s a shame.

You who want the followers of Jesus to kill their enemies, what is your understanding of “the priesthood of all believers”?

They’ve offered no understanding. Their minds are set in a different direction.

 

[Matthias]

Remember, the argument that has been set before us: “you are not following Jesus if you aren’t armed, ready to kill.”

Set aside for a moment that Jesus and the apostles didn’t make that argument a test of discipleship. It’s being pushed on us by only one person, so far.

Let’s assume for the sake of discussion that somehow it is a test of discipleship that is or would be endorsed by Jesus and the apostles.

What percentage of female Christians are “not following Jesus” because they “aren’t armed, ready to kill”?

There’s your ministry field @Wrangler.

 

[Matthias]

This is what Jesus and the apostles require women to do (“you are not following Jesus if you aren‘t armed, ready to kill”) in order to become followers of Jesus? I say no. Who says yes?

 

[Matthias]

At what age does @Wrangler enjoin and release a person (male and / or female) from his “armed, ready to kill” disciple test?

Here’s a random thirteen year old female -



Let’s say she’s a follower of Jesus - which must mean that she is “armed, ready to kill”.

Here’s a random thirteen year old male -



Let’s say that he’s also a follower of Jesus - which must mean that he too is “armed, ready to kill.”

Let’s further say that the thirteen year old girl and the thirteen year old boy meet one day at church, date for a while, and get married to one another.

Here she is aged ninety, with her ninety-one year old husband -



In order to remain followers of Jesus, these two are still “armed, ready to kill”?

Is anyone buying this bizarre requirement for following Jesus? (I’m not, which should come as no surprise to anyone.)

 

[Matthias]

* El Deguello -> The Slit Throat *

 

[Chihuahua]

Listen again to the argument: “you are not following Jesus if you aren’t armed, ready to kill.”

I did not state that. For the duration of this topic I will be ignoring you unless you can demonstrate, word for word, I stated that. I already mentioned I do not have any weapons.

 

[Matthias]

I did not state that.

That’s right. @Wrangler did.

For the duration of this topic I will be ignoring you unless you can demonstrate, word for word, I stated that.

I’ve told you several times now that you didn’t say it. If you review the thread you’ll find that Wrangler did. See post #107. I can’t make it any clearer to you than that.

I already mentioned I do not have any weapons.

You have. According to Wrangler, that means that you aren’t following Jesus.

 

[Chihuahua]

That’s right. @Wrangler did.



I’ve told you several times now that you didn’t say it. If you review the thread you’ll find that Wrangler did. See post #107. I can’t make it any clearer to you than that.



You have. According to Wrangler, that means that you aren’t following Jesus.

Would you like a ticket to what is called Somali?

Would you obey Jesus and put away your weapons of the world?

Would you obey Jesus and put away your weapons of the world?

Jesus did not command us to be devoid of weapons. Peter, sword, remember? I do not have any, because there are brave people that defend me.

Jesus did not command us to be devoid of weapons. Peter, sword, remember?

Jesus rebuked Peter and told him to put away the sword. Remember?

Jesus rebuked Peter and told him to put away the sword. Remember?

Peter, like Judas, wanted things his way. Did Jesus tell him to drop the sword or put it away?

Peter, like Judas, wanted things his way.

Listen again to the argument: “you are not following Jesus if you aren’t armed, ready to kill.”

 

[Wrangler]

The apostles and early Christians didn’t live by the sword.

You really are stuck on this brainwashed mantra, unable to think past it. The apostles and early Christians didn’t have health insurance either. That's no reason why modern Christians shouldn't have health insurance, attacking it as an action without sanction (@Aunty Jane), is selfish or what have you.

Let me explain something to you. Civilization lives by the sword, which explains why every nation in human history has had a military and police force.

I can't response to every foolish post by the over-spiritualized but this vid below tells the story to all those with eyes to see and ears to hear.

Not wanting to lose this golden nugget of historical analysis deep in another thread, I wanted to create this thread to showcase the graphical representation of centuries of Islamic Jihad against Christian Europe compared to the Crusades.

It's a brilliant work by Dr. Bill Warner that concisely depicts centuries of evil done to our Christian ancestors and accurately the depicts the Crusades as the defensive reaction it was. As is often the case, the truth is political incorrect and many have been indoctrinated to feel shame for what we should feel proud of in our culture that is dying, has turned self reflection leading to the Protestant Reformation half a millennia ago into self-hatred seen in many ways in the 21st century. Enjoy!

 

[Matthias]

You really are stuck on this brainwashed mantra, unable to think past it. The apostles and early Christians didn’t have health insurance either. That's no reason why modern Christians shouldn't have health insurance, attacking it as an action without sanction (@Aunty Jane), is selfish or what have you.

I really am “stuck” on the teaching of Jesus and the apostles.

Let me explain something to you. Civilization lives by the sword, which explains why every nation in human history has had a military and police force.

Thanks. Now allow me to explain something to you. You aren’t living by the teaching of Jesus and the apostles. You’re living by the standard set by civilization (i.e., the world). Your teacher is the world and, as a student of the world, you are like your teacher.

I can't response to every foolish post by the over-spiritualized but this vid below tells the story to all those with eyes to see and ears to hear.

I can’t respond to every post by the worldly minded. I’ve spent an inordinate amount of time trying to persuade you that the Messiah’s way of living is a better way of living than civilization has persuaded you to live. I haven’t been able to persuade you but in the process of trying I may have been able to help others see that the mantra you’ve been offering readers - “you are not following Jesus if you are not armed, ready to kill” - comes from the world, not from Jesus and the apostles. If I have, then it’s been a good and worthwhile use of my time.

 

[Chihuahua]

I really am “stuck” on the teaching of Jesus and the apostles.

You seem like a reasonable person, and I mean that with respect to your views. This is not meant as a trap or anything. I value your views and I disagree with them. In WWII there were conscientious objectors. They ran into bullets, RESPECT. I would really respect your pacificist views on what you would do. This is not a challenge to make me goad my ego. I am not playing some kind of game.

1940 - Your brother, President of the United States, calls you regarding the information available at the time via intelligence. You are not meant to be a mind reader. Your brother values your opinion implicitly. I imagine you are well read enough, as they say, to see it is very murky waters.

I am not suggesting you have psychic powers or anything. Respectfully consider what you would do.

 

[Matthias]

“Come out from among them and become separate” - Paul, 2 Corinthians 6:17

The Messiah’s program is vastly superior to the evil systems of the world. Live godly lives, not worldly lives. The right path is the one which leads to the life of the age to come. The right path is the one grounded on the sound teaching and preaching of Messiah and the apostles. It is the way of that path which the followers of Messiah walk and are commissioned to spread to the world. The invitation to follow him and forsake the way of the world has been extended. The exhortation and invitation has been offered. It calls you to decision. It calls you to action.