Reason for The Crusades explained

[rvmb]

That's fine. I'm my opinion a Christian is someone who believes in Christ. You believe in Christ so to me you are a Christian brother.
May Gods grace and peace be with you

Hello fellow Adelaide believer.
What verses do you believe teach how a believer today is saved, justified & sealed ?

 

[Armour of God]

Hello fellow Adelaide believer.
What verses do you believe teach how a believer today is saved, justified & sealed ?

Hi, im originally from Melbourne and have been travelling and working around Australia since 2020. Iv been in Adelaide for a couple of years now. It's a nice place, warm weather, nice beaches, apart from the alge bloom, nice hills, less traffic, less speed cameras and road cops, can't complain.

That's a question that causes arguments and i don't want to get into that argument here and get off topic.

God bless

 

[rvmb]

Hi, im originally from Melbourne and have been travelling and working around Australia since 2020. Iv been in Adelaide for a couple of years now. It's a nice place, warm weather, nice beaches, apart from the alge bloom, nice hills, less traffic, less speed cameras and road cops, can't complain.

That's a question that causes arguments and i don't want to get into that argument here and get off topic.

God bless

""That's a question that causes arguments""
I keep it at discussion level & ask for the verses that support the views of a believer.
For me, the Bible is clear :-
1 Cor 15:1-4, Eph 1:13 teaches how a believer today is saved. justified & sealed
Gal 1:11-12 teaches that Christ taught that Gospel to only Paul
1 Tim 1:16 KJV - Paul was the first to be saved by it.
Acts 9:15 shows that Paul was selected by Christ to be the Rom 11:13 Apostle & Rom 15:16 Minister to the Gentiles.
Gal 2:7-9 writes who taught what to who then.
Others often turn to the other Apostles but when asked for verses that teach they have authority over Paul to teach the saving gospel to believers today they resort to lengthy opinions rather than letting the relevant verses do the teaching.
If I'm asked for verses where the Bible teach how & when the Heaven & earth were created I simply list Gen 1:1 rather than opinions.
You are welcome to reply if you so desire.

 

[Armour of God]

""That's a question that causes arguments""
I keep it at discussion level & ask for the verses that support the views of a believer.
For me, the Bible is clear :-
1 Cor 15:1-4, Eph 1:13 teaches how a believer today is saved. justified & sealed
Gal 1:11-12 teaches that Christ taught that Gospel to only Paul
1 Tim 1:16 KJV - Paul was the first to be saved by it.
Acts 9:15 shows that Paul was selected by Christ to be the Rom 11:13 Apostle & Rom 15:16 Minister to the Gentiles.
Gal 2:7-9 writes who taught what to who then.
Others often turn to the other Apostles but when asked for verses that teach they have authority over Paul to teach the saving gospel to believers today they resort to lengthy opinions rather than letting the relevant verses do the teaching.
If I'm asked for verses where the Bible teach how & when the Heaven & earth were created I simply list Gen 1:1 rather than opinions.
You are welcome to reply if you so desire.

Like I said I don't want to hyjack the thread with another topic, especially one as divisive as this one. Maybe open up a new thread on the topic if you like and I will respond their

 

[rvmb]

Like I said I don't want to hyjack the thread with another topic, especially one as divisive as this one. Maybe open up a new thread on the topic if you like and I will respond their

No hijack, disputes over how salvation was obtained was one of the reasons crusades occurred.
Is obtaining salvation not important to you ?
What verses do you quote to someone who asks you how to be saved ?

 

[Armour of God]

No hijack, disputes over how salvation was obtained was one of the reasons crusades occurred.
Is obtaining salvation not important to you ?
What verses do you quote to someone who asks you how to be saved ?

The same verses that you mentioned

 

[Wrangler]

@Wrangler

Ephesians 6:10-22
10 Finally, be strong in the Lord and in his mighty power. 11 Put on the full armor of God, so that you can take your stand against the devil’s schemes. 12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.

Personally I'm greatful that the brave men of the Crusades followed this bible command and stood up to defended themselves against the evil invading forces of Islam. If they had surrendered, like some people wished they had, then none of us would be here today. All of Eurpoe would be Islam and there would be no Christianity, no Christian Americas. Perhaps that's what some of these people really want, the demise of Christianity.

I too am grateful for brave Christians of the past who went up against overwhelming odds and with the grace of God, saved Christendom.

Regarding the pacifists, I think they're hopelessly naïve and refuse to learn the lesson of history. They believe the Christian fate would be different from the Zoroastrians in Iran due to over-spiritualization. It is only because of the Crusades and the 100's of battles Christians fought against Islamic Jihadi's that there is a Christendom, which is the #1 religion in the world by population. Otherwise, like the Zoroastrians, Christianity would be an asterisk, less than 2%, a religious group less than 100,000 world wide.

To lament the Crusaders went too far does not show too much gratitude.

 

[Matthias]

@Armour of God if “Caesar” commanded you to kill me, would you?

 

[Armour of God]

@Armour of God if “Caesar” commanded you to kill me, would you?

@Matthias
Haha you make me laugh. Why would I listen to Caesar, the king of the Roman empire. Off course I wouldn't kill you. Why do you ask that?

 

[Matthias]

@Matthias
Haha you make me laugh. Why would I listen to Caesar, the king of the Roman empire. Off course I wouldn't kill you. Why do you ask that?

I asked that because @Wrangler would have answered “yes”.

 

[Wrangler]

@Matthias
Haha you make me laugh. Why would I listen to Caesar, the king of the Roman empire. Off course I wouldn't kill you. Why do you ask that?

He tries to create moral relativism, a scenario where we ought to disregard and disobey Christ's soulful commands, i.e., the 'what if' game.

 

[Armour of God]

I asked that because @Wrangler would have answered “yes”.

Ask him instead of assuming. His here now

I think you have your history mixed up. The Crusades occurred over 600 years after the collapse of the "ancient Roman empire", 1000 years after the reign of Julius Ceasar.
Your getting confused with the "holy Roman empire" they were led by the Catholic church and comes much later and led the crusades.

 

[Matthias]

Ask him instead of assuming.

I have. That’s how I know what his answer is.

His here now

I think you have your history mixed up. The Crusades occurred over 600 years after the collapse of the "ancient Roman empire", 1000 years after the reign of Julius Ceasar.
Your getting confused with the "holy Roman empire" they were led by the Catholic church and comes much later and led the crusades.

I know history well and, as I’ve often said, I’m bound by the constraints of history.

Pay close attention to @Wrangler’s exposition on “rendering unto Caesar” in regard to this issue.

 

[Armour of God]

I have. That’s how I know what his answer is.

But you don't know your history my friend.

If evil Muslim forces were trying to invade your property and kill you and your family would you let them?
Yes or no answer

 

[Matthias]

But you don't know your history my friend.

Among other things I’m a retired adjunct college professor. One of the subjects I taught is Church history.

If evil Muslim forces were trying to invade your property and kill you and your family would you let them?
Yes or no answer

It is the duty of the government to protect its citizens. Is that not what militaries are for?

If evil Muslim forces were trying to invade my property and kill me and my family, would the military let them?

Is it possible for God not to let them - to protect me and my family - if the military doesn’t?

 

[Armour of God]

Among other things I’m a retired adjunct college professor. One of the subjects I taught is Church history.



It is the duty of the government to protect its citizens. Is that not what militaries are for?

If evil Muslim forces were trying to invade my property and kill me and my family, would the military let them?

Church history but your normal history is not very good. You got mixed up about the ancient Roman empire asking that question.

There was no governments back then only kingdoms.
If they were invading your land and about to kill your family would you let them?

 

[Matthias]

Church history but your normal history is not very good.

What is “normal history”? I don’t know how much reading you do, nor what kind of reading you do. I read history - church and secular - extensively and encourage others to do likewise.

You got mixed up about the ancient Roman empire asking that question.

No. I wasn’t speaking about the ancient Roman Empire. @Wrangler uses the “render unto Caesar what belongs to Caesar” to support his assertion that no one can be a follower of Jesus unless they are armed, ready to kill. He has a modern-day “Caesar” and that is the “Caesar” whom he obeys.

There was no governments back then only kingdoms.

All kingdoms have government.

If they were invading your land and about to kill your family would you let them?

Can you guarantee that I can stop them?

 

[Armour of God]

@Matthias
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What is “normal history”? I don’t know how much reading you do, nor what kind of reading you do. I read history - church and secular - extensively and encourage others to do likewise.



No. @Wrangler uses the “render to Caesar what belings to Caesar” to support his assertion that no one can be a follower of Jesus unless they are armed, ready to kill. He has a modern-day “Caesar” and that is the “Caesar” whom he obeys.



All kingdoms have government.



Can you guarantee that I can stop them?

Your church history isn't very good either if your getting the holy Roman empire mixed up with ancient Roman empire.

I answered your question directly. But you can't be honest enough to answer mine.
Pfft forget about it I'm going to sleep

 

[Matthias]

@Matthias


Your church history isn't very good either if your getting the holy Roman empire mixed up with ancient Roman empire.

I don’t confuse the two. (Neither does @Wrangler.)

I answered your question directly. But you can't be honest enough to answer mine.

I’ve answered your questions directly and I’ve been honest with you.

Pfft forget about it I'm going to sleep

Goodnight.

 

[Wrangler]

If evil Muslim forces were trying to invade your property and kill you and your family would you let them?
Yes or no answer

If they were invading your land and about to kill your family would you let them?

Notice the pattern of evasion. Although he’s on a forum, he truly does not want to have a back and forth conversion, let alone debate.

He just want to pontificate - even though his historical facts and theological understanding is false or weak.

But you don't know your history my friend.

Church history but your normal history is not very good. You got mixed up about the ancient Roman empire asking that question.

Again, the evasive pattern emerged prompting one to repeat questions that aren’t answered.

He confuses his theology with historical facts. For instance, he decries Christian nationalism on theological grounds while denying the earliest Christians made the empire Christian sponsor at the earliest opportunity.

Again, it takes a very closed minded person to deny centuries of evidence and millions of Christians acting in opposition to his theological claims.