Reason for The Crusades explained

[Matthias]

In that case, you’ve reached a false conclusion on your own. I’ll say it one more time, just to make certain you didn’t misunderstand what I said: I’m not a Muslim apologist / sympathizer. I’m a primitive Christian apologist.

The notion that I’m a Muslim apologist / sympathizer started with @Armour of God a week or so ago and was then picked up and perpetuated by @Wrangler. I’ve been posting on this forum for four years. No one besides those two, and now you, have ever made that false accusation against me. They haven’t offered an apology, nor have they retracted their lie. You can follow their example or you can do the right thing. Whichever you choose to do, it will be a reflection of your character.



You’re mistaken. For example, see the threads on the subject started by @Debp.

I’m cautious about estimates for the number of Muslims who convert to Christianity per year, and estimates vary widely.

I’m linking an article that I just finished reading for your consideration @NayborBear.

Why are more and more Muslims converting to Christianity?

Explore the growing trend of Muslims converting to Christianity and the reasons behind this significant movement worldwide.

globalchristianrelief.org

 

[Lizbeth]

I wanted to translate this to modern English. From the VOICE.

12 Why would I ever attempt to judge those outside the church? Aren’t we called to judge those within the church? 13 God judges the outsiders. Your job is this: “Expel the wicked from your own community.​

That’s what the Crusaders did - expel the wicked from their own community, who had no godly reason to be there! Discernment is needed by the overly spiritualized:

1 Corinthians 6:3​

Do you not know that we are to judge angels? How much more, then, matters pertaining to this life!​

More discernment is that Paul was not talking about busy bodies or about matters of State, giving to Caesar what is Caesar's. Christ carried a soldier equipment 2 miles, which is the opposite of having nothing to do with it since Rome was not part of the church he founded.

We are not judging Muslims beyond their evil attacks on God's children. They will be brought to justice or justice will be brought to them as in the time of the Crusades and in the time after 9/11, nearly a 1/4 century ago now.

My how the carnal mind likes to twist things. We need ears to hear what the Spirit is saying - which can only come from the Spirit if one has the Spirit. It is saying to expel those from your congregation who are claiming Christ while living a sinful lifestyle. It is not talking about expelling unbelievers from the society around you. "Society" is outside the church.

 

[Wrangler]

My how the carnal mind likes to twist things.

The overly spiritualized twist things.

It is not talking about expelling unbelievers from the society around you. "Society" is outside the church.

Obviously not. See point of discernment and other verses. See Crusades.

Every post you write shows a total abdication of Christians burden to the weightier matters of the law, justice. Jesus would not be proud.

 

[Lizbeth]

The overly spiritualized twist things.

No twisting....that is simply what it says. But the spiritually blind can't see/hear what is plainly written.

Obviously not. See point of discernment and other verses. See Crusades.

Every post you write shows a total abdication of Christians burden to the weightier matters of the law, justice. Jesus would not be proud.

Sure am NOT going to look to the Crusades as an example for me to follow as a believer.

Again you need ears to hear what the Spirit is saying regarding the "weightier matters". Law and justice in that context is not talking to believers about en-FORCING laws and doling out punishments. That is certainly not what Jesus taught and did. The Law and justice He is talking about there is about personally living and acting with fairness, equity and honesty....such things like balanced scales, not cheating, and not withholding wages from one's workers, but doing what is just and right, etc.....as the Law says.

 

[Matthias]

“You are not following Jesus if you aren’t armed, ready to kill” isn’t the teaching of Jesus and the apostles. It is a new requirement for discipleship emanating from a hidden identity church.

 

[Matthias]

Every post you write shows a total abdication of Christians burden to the weightier matters of the law, justice. Jesus would not be proud.

Your judgement contains a fatal flaw:

Jesus, the apostles and the disciples in the early centuries of the Christian movement didn’t kill their enemies and they don’t show “a total abdication of Christians burden to the weightier matters of the law, justice.”

 

[Armour of God]

Don't think I've been mislead. Also think the chances of success in evangelizing muslims in general are slim to none!
Because you see, when you say evangelize?
This is NOT what a muslim HEARS!
Evangelize=Jihad
Only change? Is, the language!
Both "parties", if you will, wish the whole world to be either muslim, or Christian! One by evangelizing? The other by jihad!
Far as "love" goes?
Muslims practice more of an "aggressive violent form" of "corrective love", which is seen as pretty barbaric, by the "really pacifistic" Christian community. Save for a more aggressive form of "corrective love" when it comes to raising kids! And even "this" is being watered down as travel down this apostasetic road continues.
As can be seen on the nightly news. When it isn't experienced by the Christian community. Which usually doesn't make the evening news.
And should we as a country have more public displays of "Corporate Punishment?" Which has devolved to the point of now letting murders and rapists, and ALL TYPES of lawless behaviors out on a recognizance bond? Where MOST ASSUREDLY they WILL show up for their court date?
RIGHT!
Riddle me this if you'd be so kind:
Why, in Heavens Name would such people that disrespect "law" so much that would give them motivation to show up "by law" to a court date?

My friend, sadly there are people on this thread that hate Christianity.
They have been indoctrinated to be Islamic sympathizers.
They support evil and wish that Christianity would fall.

 

[Matthias]

My friend, sadly there are people on this thread that hate Christianity.
They have been indoctrinated to be Islamic sympathizers.
They support evil and wish that Christianity would fall.

View attachment 83780

Be transparent. Name them. All of them.

 

[Wrangler]

No twisting....that is simply what it says.

Right. Your lack of discernment is seen by ignoring other verses presented to avoid having to reconcile the soulful aspects of Scripture, which you contemptuously categorize as carnal, worldly, fleshy.

So desperate are you to show your ignorance, that you try to fit a verse against being a busybody outside the Christian community with supporting evil done to the Christian community to escape the burden OTHER SCRIPTURES put on us to judge and DO JUSTICE.

 

[Wrangler]

Because anyone can say anything, one can say everything is spiritual but this doesn't hold up to scrutiny. Jesus did not spiritually feed 5,000 by turning a little bread and fish into enough to feed the masses. His accomplishment here was soulful, contemptuously put as carnal, fleshy, worldly.

It is astonishing that there are over-spiritualized Christians who make it a crusade 9 centuries after the fact to oppose THE Crusades!

 

[Wrangler]

Again you need ears to hear what the Spirit is saying regarding the "weightier matters". Law and justice in that context is not talking to believers about en-FORCING laws and doling out punishments.

ROFLMAO

 

[Matthias]

“The victory caused the leadership of the Church at Rome to become increasingly inebreiated with power. Tragically, when victory comes at such an excruciating cost, it can rarely be duplicated. The subsequent Crusades, lasting until the beginning of the fourteenth century, illustrated the increasing desperation of the Church, as well as the horrific consequences of attempting to use the sword to convert.“

(Christian Jihad, pp. 121-122)

As the story unfolds we will see Muslims and Christians retaliating against the brutality of the crusaders with deception and brutality of their own. The crusaders will reap what they have sown.

 

[Matthias]

“By the end of the Second Crusade in July 1148, the Christian armies were horribly divided, and the Muslim armies were gathering once again.

Following the Crusade, the Church established Latin states throughout the Middle East, each with a king or ruler who was loyal to the Pope. In the summer of 1144, the Muslim armies attacked Edessa, a Latin state east of Jerusalem. … William of Tyre reports that Edessa was defenseless because they did not have the manpower to stand against the army: …

Immediately the city fathers sent word to neighboring Latin states that they were under attack. The result, however, was not brotherly love. Instead the other Latin states, supposedly Christian brothers, rejoiced at Edessa’s misfortune. During the forty-four years since the end of the First Crusade, the Christian regents assigned to the various states had been more interested in personal gain and fortune than in Christian unity or common endeavor.”

((Christian Jihad, pp. 122, 123)

Don’t hurry past this. Think about what they did to one another. It will cost them dearly.

***

”The result of the lack of help and the incessant bombardment of the walls of the city was an inevitable breech in the wall and death for the inhabitants. William gives the gruesome details:

’Their forces rushed into the city. They slew with their swords the citizens whom they encountered, sparing neither age, condition, nor sex. Of them it might be said: “They murder the widow and the stranger, they slay the orphan, the youth, and the virgin, together with the old man.” The city, therefore, was captured and delivered to the swords of the enemy. The more prudent or more experienced citizens rushed to the citadel which, as we have said, was in the city. This they did so that they might at least preserve their lives, their children, and their wives, if only for a short time. At the gate their was such a crush of people trying to enter that, because of the press of the crowd, many were suffocated and died miserably. Among these was the most reverend Hugh, the Archbishop of the city. He is said to have expired in this fashion together with several of his clerics. Some of those who were present would blame his miserable end on the Archbishop himself, for he is said to have collected a vast sum of money. Had he used this for soldiers, it would have been helpful to the city, but he preferred to heap up his treasure like a miser rather than to consider his dying people. Thus it happened that he received the reward of the greedy by perishing with his people.’”

(Christian Jihad, pp. 123, 124)

This is evil. It’s going to get even more evil.

 

[Matthias]

“In the summer of the next year, 1145, Eugene II ascended to the throne of Rome, and by the fall he called for a crusade against the new occupants of the city. He called on King Louis VII and the Gauls to lead the Crusade: …

Once again, salvation was promised to the soldiers of God, and once again, the defense of Jesus Christ’s land is invoked. King Louis VII was ambivalent at best, and no action was taken.

Infuriated, Eugenius called on Bernard of Clairveaux (1090-1153) to inspire Christians to fight in Jesus’ name. Beginning in the spring of 1146, Bernard, an abbot of immense influence, urged Christians to battle. At a council at Vezelay, Bernard pleaded for soldiers; this time both kings and peasants responded. The people of Sicily, Germany, and Hungary joined in the Christian forces. However, the princes in this campaign had personal reasons for joining, which proved to be the fatal flaw of the enterprise. King Conrad of Germany, King Roger of Sicily, and King Goza of Hungary all wanted to increase their own wealth, and they remembered the plunder of Acre and Antioch in Urban’s Crusade.

The armies were not motivated by any sense of divine purpose, even the salvation offered by the pope, so self-serving divisions quickly rent the troops.They paid the penalty in a resounding defeat at Damascus. In a letter to Eugenius, Bernard tried to explain why the children of God could not stand against the infidels: …

It was a solemn note for the Christian leaders. They had felt they were invincible. They were not.”

(Christian Jihad, pp. 124, 125)

The crusaders weren't exactly what their apologists here would like for us to believe they were.

 

[Matthias]

“In 1187, the unthinkable happened. The Muslim forces, united under the leadership of a strong battlefield general, once again captured Jerusalem.At the helm of the Islamic armies was Saladin, the sultan of Egypt and ruler of Damascus. Saladin called for a jihad against the Christians living in Jerusalem, which he saw as a Muslim holy site.

Cutting a swath across the Latin states through the summer of 1187, Saladin’s forces finally reached the walls of Jerusalem in the early fall. …

For two weeks a fierce battle ensued, with Saladin’s men firing weapons that reached the walls from the Mount of Olives. Christians within the walls of the city slowly lost heart. Finally the Christians sent a delegation of surrender to Saladin, and he negotiated a ransom for the inhabitants. If they were willing to surrender the city and pay the ransom, they would be allowed to live. The chronicler who recorded the scene was aghast:

’Saladin had taken counsel and laid down these ransom terms for the inhabitants of Jerusalem: each male, ten years old and over, was to pay ten besants for his ransom; females, five besants; boys, seven years old and under, one. Those who wished would be freed on these terms and could leave securely with their possessions. The inhabitants of Jerusalem who would not accept these terms, or those who did not have ten besants, were to become booty, to be slain by the army’s swords. This agreement pleased the lord Patriarch and the others who had money. … On Friday, October 2, this agreement was read out through the streets of Jerusalem, so that everyone might within forty days provide for himself and pay to Saladin the tribute as aforesaid for his freedom. When they heard these arrangements, the crowds throughout the city wailed in sorrowful tones: “Woe, woe to us miserable people! We have no gold! What are we to do? …“ Who would ever have thought that such wickedness would be perpetrated by Chrisians?’

Obviously, this was seen as a betrayal by the Christian leaders of the city. They were wealthy enough to purchase their freedom, so they quickly accepted the terms, but the vast majority of Jerusalem’s inhabitants could not, as they did not have such money.”

(Christian Jihad, pp. 125, 126, 127)

The majority of the Christians in the city were sold out to the Muslims and abandoned to their fate by their leaders.

 

[Matthias]

“News of the capture of Jerusalem quickly reached Rome. Pope Alexander III called upon Emperor Frederick I, called Barbarossa, to enter into the Crusade. His army numbered in the tens of thousands, and as an aged veteran of the Second Crusade, Frederick was an able warrior. As his forces passed through the Byzantine empire on their way to Jerusalem, Frederick formed an alliance with the Byzantine emperor, Isaac Angelos.“

(Christian Jihad, p. 127)

Now the Muslims were in trouble. Right? Well, not all is what it appears to be in the alliance of Emperor Frederick I and Byzantine Emperor Angelos. Read on.

***

”Yet there was intrigue and deceit in this confederation. Emperor Angelos had entered into a secret agreement with Saladin. He was to stall Frederick, giving Saladin time to garner a strategy to defeat Frederick. Now, even supposed Christian brothers were betraying one another.”

(Christian Jihad, pp. 127-128)

Is it any wonder that the crusaders are going to be defeated?

 

[Matthias]

View attachment 83788

The crusader didn’t have time to talk to his enemy about Jesus Christ. He had more pressing business to carry out - killing his enemy.

 

[Anchorite]

Who is opposed to Christ?

 

[Matthias]

I’ll get back to Saladin and the reeling crusaders shortly, but first this brief excursion back to the 4th century: From my X / Twitter “Following” feed this afternoon -

“#OTD May 8, 303:

Victor of Milan, a Christian soldier in the Roman army, was tortured and beheaded for refusing to renounce his faith. In defiance of Emperor Maximian’s edict, he openly destroyed pagan altars, leading to his arrest and brutal execution.”

https://x.com/historicalrook/status/2052711220231205043?s=61

I suppose @Wrangler would say that Victor had it coming to him for not rendering unto Caesar.

 

[Matthias]

Who is opposed to Christ?

View attachment 83789

Anyone who teaches that Jesus lied is opposed to Christ.

@Wrangler is the spokesman on this forum for his concealed identity church. (The identity is concealed for a reason.) “Jesus lied” is coming from a dark place.

IF the church I attended (and pastored for a while before I retired and moved out of state) taught “Jesus lied,” I would expose it to the light and insist that it repent. I would call it what it is IF that had been their position and attitude - evil.

It’s not a large stretch from “Jesus lied” to “You aren’t a follower of Jesus if you aren’t armed, ready to kill.”

“Jesus lied” fits well with “Jesus didn’t teach his followers not to kill their enemies”

@Armour of God did you know Wrangler believes and teaches that Jesus lied?