Reason for The Crusades explained

[Matthias]

Azza matter of treating people like they are "In a Class?"
Why Yes!
Of course there must be a fine line between "suggesting by insinuation" by the treatment of.....Right?
I, and others have given you AMPLE reasons as to why and what happens in the "craziness of WAR!"
And Reasons for DEFENDING THE FAITH! That IS OURS! In, and THROUGH Christ Jesus!
And I'm sorry/NOT sorry you find SUCH OFFENSE at this!

You are ”DEFENDING THE FAITH” that is yours. It slaughters its enemies - Muslims, Jews, and Christians; men, women, and children - in the name of Christ Jesus. The Christian authors who wrote Christian Jihad covered this in their book. I’ve provided excerpts in this thread for the benefit of my readers.

But, yet?.....You no learny!
ONLY wanna Teachy!
Perhaps ONE day, you'll "get it!"

I learned about “Infantilization” during my Ministerial Counseling coursework in college. I don’t know if you have a pastor or not but, if you do, I advise you to speak with him about it. If you don’t have a pastor, I advise you to speak with a mental health care specialist about it.

Should you ever reach or pursue the "HIGH CALLING OF GOD!" In AND through Christ Jesus!
1 Peter 2:5
Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, ACCEPTABLE to God BY Jesus Christ.
See what I mean?
Probably not!

I’m a minister of the gospel of peace. Go in peace.

 

[Matthias]

“When we say we want to be the hands and feet of Jesus, we must remember what happened to the hands and feet of Jesus.” - Burk Parsons

”We [who are the hands and feet of Jesus] do not use the weapons of the world.” - Paul

 

[Matthias]

Roman persecution of Christianity is very well documented. Number of Crusades called for by Jesus, the apostles, pastors, elders, deacons, etc. and carried out against the Romans during the first three centuries of Christian history?

@Wrangler @Armour of God @NayborBear should be able to easily produce the statistics for us to examine.

Zero.

 

[NayborBear]

I’m a minister of the gospel of peace. Go in peace.

As you go on about ministering your peace with?:
"ONLY JESUS!....ONLY JESUS!!.....ONLY JESUS!!!"?????:
Try to "Bare in Mind!"
That's only HALF a victory!
AS:
Jesus was SENT!
By WHOM?!! Seems to be a burning question constantly perpetuated!
Well?
That's the "OTHER HALF" of the Victory!
Answer me this if you will:
How WOULD you FEEL, if YOUR children regarded YOU as "CHOPPED LIVER!!??"

A god who is ALL love, ALL grace, ALL mercy, NO sovereignty, NO justice, NO holiness, and NO wrath?....... IS an IDOL! —R.C. Sproul.

 

[Matthias]

As you go on about ministering your peace with?:
"ONLY JESUS!....ONLY JESUS!!.....ONLY JESUS!!!"?????:

No. God, Jesus, the apostles, the prophets, Christian history, the armor of God.

Try to "Bare in Mind!"
That's only HALF a victory!
AS:
Jesus was SENT!
By WHOM?!! Seems to be a burning question constantly perpetuated!
Well?

Jesus was sent by his God and Father, Yahweh.

That's the "OTHER HALF" of the Victory!
Answer me this if you will:
How WOULD you FEEL, if YOUR children regarded YOU as "CHOPPED LIVER!!??"

A god who is ALL love, ALL grace, ALL mercy, NO sovereignty, NO justice, NO holiness, and NO wrath?....... IS an IDOL! —R.C. Sproul.

I don’t regard my God and Father as “CHOPPED LIVER”. I don’t have any idea what gave you the idea that I do.

***

P.S.

Please elaborate on this, as it seems to be the crux of the matter.

***

Sproul is right.

If you review the thread you’ll find that I’ve used Exodus 34:6-7 in the defense of my primitive Christian faith.

 

[NayborBear]

I don’t regard my God and Father as “CHOPPED LIVER”. I don’t have any idea what gave you the idea that I do.

Only ALL the posts of your incessant disdaining with criminalitous accusations.
Not only for the "Crusades" themselves! But the participators of said Crusades with your constant words, and apparent reliance of COMPLETE PASCIFISM to, and TOWARDS enemies OF the Faith that? If LEFT TO their "Agendas?"
Not ONLY Christianity, but yea, JUDEISM wouldn't even EXIST!

And yet? Not even an acknowledgement of a "Thank You" for, or an "Atta Way God" to"Yah'-uh-'Vay" WHO by His Mighty Hand and Loving Kindness which endures forever MADE THESE "ACTS OF DEFENDING THE FAITH" COME TO PASS!

And Yes? He STILL does these Defenses FOR the Faith!
Psalms 110:
The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

IF THAT'S NOT TREATING OUR FATHER IN HEAVEN LIKE "Chopped Liver?"
What DO you consider it as?

Deuteronomy 32:
5 They have corrupted themselves, their spot is not the spot of his children: they are a perverse and crooked generation.
6 Do ye thus requite the Lord, O foolish people and unwise? is not he thy father that hath bought thee? hath he not made thee, and established thee?
15 But Jeshurun* waxed fat, and kicked: thou art waxen fat, thou art grown thick, thou art covered with fatness; then he forsook God which made him, and lightly esteemed the Rock of his salvation.
16 They provoked him to jealousy with strange gods, with abominations provoked they him to anger.
17 They sacrificed unto devils, not to God; to gods whom they knew not, to new gods that came newly up, whom your fathers feared not.
18 Of the Rock that begat thee thou art unmindful, and hast forgotten God that formed thee.
19 And when the Lord saw it, he abhorred them, because of the provoking of his sons, and of his daughters.

* Jeshurun Is an "unkind moniker" if you will referring to Israel...........And, much much of christianity these days. As the shoe seems to fit the same!

 

[Matthias]

Only ALL the posts of your incessant disdaining with criminalitous accusations.

They committed crimes. I speak against criminality.

Not only for the "Crusades" themselves! But the participators of said Crusades with your constant words, and apparent reliance of COMPLETE PASCIFISM to, and TOWARDS enemies OF the Faith that?

My reliance is on God and Messiah Jesus; not pacifism, not the popes, not the crusaders, not the weapons of the world.

My faith is not the faith of the Roman Catholic Church.

My attitude toward my enemies is the attitude of Jesus and the apostles toward enemies.

If LEFT TO their "Agendas?"
Not ONLY Christianity, but yea, JUDEISM wouldn't even EXIST!

I don’t know where you’re going with that. Let’s roll back the calendar. Christianity survived and thrived under severe Roman persecution. There was nothing the Romans could do to put it out of existence.

You allow too much power to the enemies of Christianity.

“The oftener we are mowed down by you, the more in number we grow, the blood of Christians is seed.”

(Tertullian, Apology, Chapter 50)

Logos Virtual Library: Tertullian: Apology, 50

And yet? Not even an acknowledgement of a "Thank You" for, or an "Atta Way God" to"Yah'-uh-'Vay" WHO by His Mighty Hand and Loving Kindness which endures forever MADE THESE "ACTS OF DEFENDING THE FAITH" COME TO PASS!

I’ve acknowledged that God may have used the popes and the crusaders to accomplish his purpose.

And Yes? He STILL does these Defenses FOR the Faith!
Psalms 110:
The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

You are (mis)applying this passage of scripture in an attempt to justify not obeying the teaching of Jesus and the apostles concerning how the followers of Jesus must treat their enemies.

IF THAT'S NOT TREATING OUR FATHER IN HEAVEN LIKE "Chopped Liver?"

Thank you for elaborating.

What DO you consider it as?

Misguided.

***

Love of God and love of neighbor.

Faithfulness to the teaching and practice of Jesus and the apostles; the love for God and enemies demonstrated by Christians for the first three centuries of Christian history.

A reminder from Paul: “We [followers of Jesus] do not use the weapons of the world.”

If I were to teach others to follow the example set by the popes and the crusaders, then I would no longer be teaching them NT Christianity. (I would be teaching them to imitate Islam.)

Deuteronomy 32:
5 They have corrupted themselves, their spot is not the spot of his children: they are a perverse and crooked generation.
6 Do ye thus requite the Lord, O foolish people and unwise? is not he thy father that hath bought thee? hath he not made thee, and established thee?
15 But Jeshurun* waxed fat, and kicked: thou art waxen fat, thou art grown thick, thou art covered with fatness; then he forsook God which made him, and lightly esteemed the Rock of his salvation.
16 They provoked him to jealousy with strange gods, with abominations provoked they him to anger.
17 They sacrificed unto devils, not to God; to gods whom they knew not, to new gods that came newly up, whom your fathers feared not.
18 Of the Rock that begat thee thou art unmindful, and hast forgotten God that formed thee.
19 And when the Lord saw it, he abhorred them, because of the provoking of his sons, and of his daughters.

* Jeshurun Is an "unkind moniker" if you will referring to Israel...........And, much much of christianity these days. As the shoe seems to fit the same!

Do you apply “the unkind moniker” to the Roman Catholic Church?

P.S.

Do you apply “the unkind moniker” to the concealed identity church (we know it isn’t the Roman Catholic Church) that @Wrangler attends and represents here?

 

[Wrangler]

My reliance is on God and Messiah Jesus; not pacifism

Odd that Jesus himself told his followers to buy a sword.

 

[Wrangler]

Christianity survived and thrived under severe Roman persecution. There was nothing the Romans could do to put it out of existence.

It’s like you want Christians to suffer!

Your denial of history is staggering. Since the 4th century there have been Christian’s nations to DO JUSTICE as God commands, including protecting the faithful by warring against enemies as God commanded the Hebrew nation.

 

[Matthias]

Odd that Jesus himself told his followers to buy a sword.

Not odd at all. What is odd to me is your use of the ignore feature.

 

[Matthias]

It’s like you want Christians to suffer!

Suffering is an essential element of being a Christian.

Your denial of history is staggering.

I don’t deny history. I’m bound by the constraints of history. I make good use of it in defense of my primitive Christian faith.

Since the 4th century there have been Christian’s nations to DO JUSTICE as God commands, including protecting the faithful by warring against enemies as God commanded the Hebrew nation.

There will be no Christian nations until the Messiah returns.

 

[Matthias]

Since the 4th century there have been Christian’s nations to DO JUSTICE as God commands, including protecting the faithful by warring against enemies as God commanded the Hebrew nation.

I would like for my readers to pay close attention to this part of your message.

***

Where does he begin his analysis?

“Since the 4th century …”

He passed over the first three centuries of Christian history.

 

[Matthias]

The followers of Jesus in the first three centuries of Christian history, contrary to what @Wrangler would like for us to believe, weren’t “armed, ready to kill,” and they certainly were doers of justice. How do we know this is true? The New Testament, Roman historians, Christian writers of the period, and Church historians.

Who was “armed, ready to kill?” We could list many names of non-Christian religions but in this post I would like to focus on one particular group -> Judaism; unbelieving Jews.

The unbelieving Jews didn’t obey the teaching of Jesus and the apostles. They were set on armed conflict with the Roman empire. The followers of Jesus were not, and, when it came, the followers of Jesus took no part in it.

The Jewish wars in the 1st and 2nd centuries are a good but tragic example of what happens when a religious group doesn’t follow the teaching of Jesus.

Jesus and the apostles didn’t call the followers of Jesus to jihad.

 

[Anchorite]

Odd that Jesus himself told his followers to buy a sword.

Lovers of violence try to claim that Jesus wanted His disciples to arm themselves, to have weapons for self defense.

But when Jesus said buy a sword, and the disciples replied they had two swords, Jesus said that was enough.

Thus, the swords were not for self defense or for killing those who attack. Two swords would not be nearly enough to combat the Roman soldiers who were coming to arrest Jesus. In fact, when Peter used his sword to cut off someone’s ear, Jesus healed the ear and scolded Peter to put away his sword.

Jesus condemned weaponry by saying that all who use the sword will perish by the sword.

Those two swords were enough for Jesus to be reckoned among the transgressors.

"Jesus reckoned among the transgressors" refers to the fulfillment of prophecy (Isaiah 53:12) where Jesus was treated, condemned, and executed as a common criminal, specifically by being crucified between two thieves. This act represents his deep identification with sinful humanity, substituting himself in the place of sinners to achieve atonement and reconciliation with God.

The swords were required to help give the appearance that Jesus was the leader of a revolutionary political mob and thereby allow the Jewish authorities to feel justified in arresting Him.

This explains why Jesus replied with “that is enough” in Luke 22:38 upon hearing that the disciples already possessed two swords: their purpose was for show, not for action.


Luke 22

36 Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

37 For I say unto you, that this that is written must yet be accomplished in me, And he was reckoned among the transgressors: for the things concerning me have an end.

38 And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords. And he said unto them, It is enough.



Matthew 26:52

Then said Jesus unto him, “Put up again thy sword into his place, for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.”


John 18:36

Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

 

[Matthias]

Your denial of history is staggering.

I’ve read them. When asked, you couldn’t even identify a single one of the writers.

@Armour of God @NayborBear have either of you read them?

 

[Wrangler]

Lovers of violence try to claim that Jesus wanted His disciples to arm themselves

You mean, you retreat immediately to subjectivism and personal attack. Not acknowledgment if the fact that Jesus told us to buy a sword. Sad.

 

[Matthias]

Your denial of history is staggering.

You conceal the identity of the church you attend and represent. That’s a denial of church history.

You believe and teach others that Jesus sometimes lied. That‘s a denial of NT history.

You haven’t read the writings of the Ante Nicene Fathers. That’s ignorance of multiple centuries of church history.

@Armour of God @NayborBear are you not staggered by any of that?

 

[Matthias]

“… the Crusade programs were intended to remove sects as a group, not as individuals. Like a conventional army in guerilla-style warfare, they were ill-prepared to handle individual threats. As one author pointed out, ‘The crusade ... was a very blunt instrument, capable of dealing with heretics en masse but less useful in coping with them once they responded to defeat by going underground.’

Hence, another stage of Christian jihad evolved out of ecclesiastical necessity. The Inquisition, officially opened by Pope Gregory IX in the thirteenth century, enlisted two corps of volunteers: the Franciscan and Dominican Friars. These warriors were to be much more meticulous in their endeavor than had been their crusading predecessors, for they were sniffing out underground heretics from among their own. It was their job, once the traitor was exposed, to either cleanse the heresy from an individual or to remove the spiritual cancer from the body of Christ by any means necessary. This epoch in Roman Catholic history spanned over six centuries. …”

(Christian Jihad, pp. 135-136)

@Wrangler lets it be known that he isn’t a trinitarian, teaches anyone who will listen to him that Jesus sometimes lied, and conceals the identity of the church he attends and represents.

@Armour of God @NayborBear what do you think would happen to him if he lived during Medieval times? Hello Inquisition.

Since you’ve been openly supporting him, the Inquisition would also have some questions for you, and would use painful methods to extract answers from you.

 

[Matthias]

“Although Thomas Torquemada is most closely associated with the Inquisitions, the movement commenced more than two centuries before the Grand Inquisitor’s name became synonymous with the era. The true father of the movement was, without question, Pope Gregory IX (Ugolino de Segni, 1227-1241), the nephew of Innocent III.

Presiding over the Fourth Lateran Council (1215) Innocent provided the theological foundation for his nephew, as the Council obligated every adult male to make confession to their parish priests and receive Holy Communion at least once a year. Reiterating previous decrees, the Council also sanctioned confiscation of property, removal from public office, and excommunication for lapsed heretics. Ominously, Innocent declared that heretics should be given over to the secular authorities for proper punishment.”

(Christian Jihad, p. 136)



This is all done under your banner @Wrangler @Armour of God @NayborBear

 

[Matthias]

“Thus, when Gregory IX assumed the pontifical throne, he was able to build on a grand heritage. A passionate Catholic who viewed himself as a pastor, he dedicated himself to the destruction of splinter groups who divorced themselves from the Holy Mother Church. Only two years after assuming the role of pontiff, Gregory, at the Council of Toulouse, set up a permanent court to try cases of heresy.

In February 1231, the major shift in purpose and power occurred when Gregory issued his new constitution, entitled Excommunicamus.

This systematic legislation provided

1. burning at the stake by the proper secular authorities as the appropriate punishment for unrepentant heresy;

2. excommunication of heretics (e.g. Cathars and Waldensians) and of all who would defend them, sympathize with them, or even refuse to denounce them;

3. officially labeling as ‘heretic,’ without trial, those who eluded the inquisitors for over a year;

4. life imprisonment as punishment for all impenitent heretics;

5. exhumation of the bodies of unpunished heretics for burning at the stake;

6. demolition of the homes of convicted heretics.

Judges instantly had clear and concise law with which to work. Now, they needed only circumstantial evidence of the crime.”

(Christian Jihad, p. 137)



@Armour of God @NayborBear I draw your attention to #2 on the list. Even if you are Roman Catholic to the core - which I very much doubt either of you are - with your support of @Wrangler, you couldn’t escape the Inquisition.