Reason for The Crusades explained

[Matthias]

What’s your response to Islamic warmongers? Words don’t stop warmongers from killing, raping, enslaving and subjugating.

My response to all warmongers is the response taught and exhibited by Jesus and the apostles in response to the pagan Roman warmongers of their day.

I’m a 1st century follower of Jesus living in the 21st century.

 

[Matthias]

The way I see it? Is you two are constantly (it seems anyway) at each others throats.

Thank you for sharing that with us.

Your vision is impaired. I bare my throat to @Wrangler. I’m not at his.

 

[Matthias]

Notice @Anchorite, this Christian art from centuries ago doesn’t depict the soldiers of the kingdom of God turning the other cheek?

How committed are you to Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox icons?

 

[Matthias]

What work by Spurgeon do you recommend?

Spurgeon is one of my favorite Christian authors …

That’s a lot of pacifist writing for you, for me, for anyone to read.

It’s an elephant. What’s the best way to eat an elephant? One bite at a time.

 

[Triumph1300]

Hitler was not the only bad guy of his time. Funny how Democrats want to avoid any critique of Stalin and Mao, who slaughtered many millions.

I see we have a Hitler supporter among us.

 

[Wrangler]

I see we have a Hitler supporter among us.

Really?! That’s your characterization of his post?! Admitting Hitler is not the only bad guy to ever live means you support Hitler??? Wow!

This is how you honor your allies.

 

[Wrangler]

Isaiah 1:17 - Another soulful verse from today’s devotional reading.

Learn to do right; seek justice. Defend the oppressed. Take up the cause of the fatherless; plead the case of the widow

 

[Armour of God]

Isaiah 1:17 - Another soulful verse from today’s devotional reading.

Learn to do right; seek justice. Defend the oppressed. Take up the cause of the fatherless; plead the case of the widow

Theses Islamic symps would rather you turn the cheek, have your head cut off by the sword, have your children killed, your wife raped and your land taken.
Their just full of nonsense.

One of them already admitted that he would defend his family in such a case so his just a hypocrite that needs to take the log out of his eye really.

Turning the other cheek applies to a personal situation, in an argument, getting slapped. It doesn't apply to evil men wielding swords, trying to kill your family and invade your land.

 

[Matthias]

Isaiah 1:17 - Another soulful verse from today’s devotional reading.

Learn to do right; seek justice. Defend the oppressed. Take up the cause of the fatherless; plead the case of the widow

Jesus and the apostles did that, without killing their enemies. So do those who believe their teaching and follow their example.

I hesitate to mention it again here - knowing what some of my enemies will say about it - but I shared my joy three years ago at being appointed by a judge to serve on the Kentucky Citizen Foster Care Review Board - “taking up the cause of the fatherless.”

 

[NayborBear]

You’re on a fools errand.

View attachment 84909

To be sure? It appears that you and others of this "pacifistic crusade" you are so blindfully and adamantly determined (stubborn/stiff-necked) in perpetuating?
Are in for (how can I say) a RUDE "wake up call!"

 

[Matthias]

Theses Islamic symps would rather you turn the cheek, have your head cut off by the sword, have your children killed, your wife raped and your land taken.
Their just full of nonsense.

I’m not an Islamic symp. I teach, preach, and practice the teaching, the preaching, the practice of Jesus and the apostles, knowing that it may cost me my head, my possessions, even my family. My confidence and trust is in God and the Messiah, not the weapons of the world.

I’ve spoken in this thread about the Anabaptists - among whom I have spiritual roots, and the cruelty inflicted on them by both Catholics and Protestants during the Reformation.

One of them already admitted that he would defend his family in such a case so his just a hypocrite that needs to take the log out of his eye really.

If you’re referring to me then you need to remind @Wrangler that I said I would do so in the same way, that is, by the same means, that Jesus and the apostles defended theirs (i.e. without using the weapons of the world) and directed your attention to Romans 13.

Turning the other cheek applies to a personal situation, in an argument, getting slapped. It doesn't apply to evil men wielding swords, trying to kill your family and invade your land.

See again how Jesus, the apostles, and the earliest followers of Jesus - and remember the Anabaptists - responded when they were faced with evil men wielding swords, trying to kill them, their families, their faith community, even their unbelieving neighbors, and remove them from their land.

You aren’t following their example and you’re teaching others not to.

 

[Matthias]

To be sure? It appears that you and others of this "pacifistic crusade" you are so blindfully and adamantly determined (stubborn/stiff-necked) in perpetuating?
Are in for (how can I say) a RUDE "wake up call!"

The cost of following the way of Jesus and the apostles is high. I’ve counted the cost and surrendered my life.

It is those who aren’t following the way of Jesus and the apostles who are in for a rude wake up call.

Now I ask again, why aren’t you out killing your enemies? You‘re teaching others to do what you yourself haven’t done and aren’t doing.

 

[Matthias]

@Wrangler @Armour of God @NayborBear

Are there any of these trips that you would like for me to revisit looking for instances of Paul either killing his enemies or teaching converts he made to kill theirs?

 

[Wrangler]

Turning the other cheek applies to a personal situation, in an argument, getting slapped. It doesn't apply to evil men wielding swords, trying to kill your family and invade your land.

Applies to insults! That’s carrying on the metaphor from it was “a slap in the face.” It’s an evil perversion to pretend Jesus meant us to be victims to evil men wielding swords, trying to kill your family and invade your land.

And no; it is NOT returning evil for evil to act persuant to Isaiah 1:17 in defending (your own countrymen) against oppression!

Anyone who studies warfare knows it is advantageous provoke your enemy to position themselves for their own destruction. Our Lord gave us the path of self-control to foil such evil schemes.

 

[Triumph1300]

This is how you honor your allies.

Warmongers are not my allies.
Peace loving Christians are my allies.
-----------------------------------
After the war Corrie ten Boom led one of her former Nazi guards to the Lord.
SHE should be one of YOUR allies as well.

She preached peace, not war and destruction as some on this forum are doing.

 

[Wrangler]

One of them already admitted that he would defend his family in such a case so his just a hypocrite that needs to take the log out of his eye really.

And don’t forget the hypocrisy of him being a warrior, warring against war! War OK for me but not for thee.

 

[Matthias]

Applies to insults!

How many times have you insulted me and others? I’m not looking for an exact number. An estimate is fine. If you don’t think you have, then say so.

It’s an evil perversion to pretend Jesus meant us to be victims to evil men wielding swords, trying to kill your family and invade your land.

He sometimes allows his followers “to be victims to evil men wielding swords …” - church history, before, during, and after the Crusades attests to that. I haven’t seen anyone pretending that he wants all of his followers to be victims.

In Romans 13 Paul teaches his readers who God has appointed to protect not only the Messiah’s followers but all of a country’s citizens, using the weapons of the world.

And no; it is NOT returning evil for evil to act persuant to Isaiah 1:17 in defending (your own countrymen) against oppression!

I agree. Where we disagree is on the question of how to do it. I’ve taken the side of Jesus and the apostles; you’ve taken the side of the papacy.

Anyone who studies warfare knows it is advantageous provoke your enemy to position themselves for their own destruction.

I’ve done that with you, though my preference is that you repent.

Our Lord gave us the path of self-control to foil such evil schemes.

Follow his teaching and example. He didn’t kill his enemies. His enemies killed him. The apostles and the early church didn’t kill their enemies. Their enemies killed them.

 

[Matthias]

And don’t forget the hypocrisy of him being a warrior, warring against war!

So he was referring to me -

When I’m “warring against war” I’m engaging in waging spiritual war against physical war.

Pacifism, you see, isn’t passive.

War OK for me but not for thee.

Spiritual war is practiced by all who follow Jesus. It is commanded in the teaching of Jesus and the apostles.

 

[Matthias]

And don’t forget the hypocrisy of him being a warrior, warring against war! War OK for me but not for thee.

You told us that Spurgeon (a pacifist) is one of your favorite Christian authors. (You haven’t denied saying it so I’ll forgo quoting you.) So,

Did Spurgeon wage spiritual war on physical war?

AI responded -

“Yes.“

I could stop at that, and if you‘ve read much of Spurgeon you would acknowledge that saying anything more is unnecessary. It would be an agreed upon fact.

AI continues -

“Victorian preacher Charles Haddon Spurgeon famously argued that Christians should wage spiritual war on physical war. In his notable sermon ‘War!War!War!’, he declared that worldly warfare and bloodshed are ‘not the Lord’s’ and that the church’s true battleground is spiritual …”

I could go on but I’ll leave it there with the hope that you will continue to read Spurgeon.

Why haven’t you accused Spurgeon by name of being a hypocrite?

 

[Wrangler]

Warmongers are not my allies.

@Anchorite is a pacifist. Not sure how one qualifies to be your ally. He is not a warmongering Demoncrat. He is against both war AND the Demonrats, as far as I can tell.