Receiving The Revelation 16:15 Scripture

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Retrobyter

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Shalom, veteran.

When Jesus returns and gathers His Church, and pours out His cup of wrath upon the earth, that event will end this present world age, even though His Millennium reign that immediately begins right after that is considered by many to be a part of this present world. How we can be sure of this is because of what Peter said about the "elements" of man's works being burned off the earth on "the day of the Lord", which is the time of Christ's return.

No, that's not right! When Yeshua` returns and takes His vengeance out on those who have been against His people, whether Gentile believers or Jews, current believers or future believers, that's NOT THE END OF THIS AGE! The END of the age occurs at the END of the Millennium! Look, if you're going to cite Peter, cite ALL of 2 Peter 3:3-13:

2 Peter 3:3-13
3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
KJV


Notice the flow of time here:
First, Kefa (Peter) talks about the first earth and its first skies (Greek: "ouranoi," translated "heavens") and how they ended with the Flood of Noach's time.
Second, we are currently in a second earth and its second skies (still "ouranoi") and how they won't end until they are destroyed by the Fire.
Afterward, we look forward to a new, third earth and its third skies (still "ouranoi") wherein will dwell righteousness. This is the New Earth and New Sky that Yochanan (John) talked about in the book of Revelation (Rev. 21:1-2).
Just because the heavens shall be "on fire" and "the elements shall melt with fervent heat" in the "day of God," that does NOT mean that it happens right when Yeshua` returns! It doesn't happen when He comes back; it happens on "the day of judgment and perdition of men!" Remember: "one day is with the Lord as a thousand years (a Millennium), and a thousand years (a Millennium) as one day!"

Yochanan clarifies this in Rev. 20:

Revelation 20:1-15
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
KJV

The incarceration of haSatan (Hebrew for "the Enemy") will last for 1000 years before he is released for a short period before the End, and the End is described in verses 7-15! The Millennium is DURING the incarceration of haSatan for it is THEN that those who were beheaded for Yeshua` would live and reign with Him! It is THEN that we who are justified by God and upon whom the second death has no power shall live and be servants (cohaniym; priests) of God and of His Messiah for a thousand years! Notice too that it is at the END that we see the fire in Rev. 20:9, 10, 14, and 15! Then, after chapter 20, we have chapters 21 and 22...

Rev 21:1-3
21 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
...

KJV

So, the End of the Age is yet a thousand years away (even though it is still on "the Day of the Lord")!

In a very literal way, one can easily see how a thousand years could be a single day:

Malachi 4:2-3
2 But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.
3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the Lord of hosts.
KJV


Matthew 16:28-17:13
16:28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.
17:1 And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart,
2 And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.
3 And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.
4 Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias.
5 While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.
6 And when the disciples heard it, they fell on their face, and were sore afraid.
7 And Jesus came and touched them, and said, Arise, and be not afraid.
8 And when they had lifted up their eyes, they saw no man, save Jesus only.
9 And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead.
10 And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elias must first come?
11 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things.
12 But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.
13 Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist.
KJV


Mark 9:1-13
1 And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power.
2 And after six days Jesus taketh with him Peter, and James, and John, and leadeth them up into an high mountain apart by themselves: and he was transfigured before them.
3 And his raiment became shining, exceeding white as snow; so as no fuller on earth can white them.
4 And there appeared unto them Elias with Moses: and they were talking with Jesus.
5 And Peter answered and said to Jesus, Master, it is good for us to be here: and let us make three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias.
6 For he wist not what to say; for they were sore afraid.
7 And there was a cloud that overshadowed them: and a voice came out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him.
8 And suddenly, when they had looked round about, they saw no man any more, save Jesus only with themselves.
9 And as they came down from the mountain, he charged them that they should tell no man what things they had seen, till the Son of man were risen from the dead.
10 And they kept that saying with themselves, questioning one with another what the rising from the dead should mean.
11 And they asked him, saying, Why say the scribes that Elias must first come?
12 And he answered and told them, Elias verily cometh first, and restoreth all things; and how it is written of the Son of man, that he must suffer many things, and be set at nought.
13 But I say unto you, That Elias is indeed come, and they have done unto him whatsoever they listed, as it is written of him.
KJV

Luke 9:27-36
27 But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God.
28 And it came to pass about an eight days after these sayings, he took Peter and John and James, and went up into a mountain to pray.
29 And as he prayed, the fashion of his countenance was altered, and his raiment was white and glistering.
30 And, behold, there talked with him two men, which were Moses and Elias:
31 Who appeared in glory, and spake of his decease which he should accomplish at Jerusalem.
32 But Peter and they that were with him were heavy with sleep: and when they were awake, they saw his glory, and the two men that stood with him.
33 And it came to pass, as they departed from him, Peter said unto Jesus, Master, it is good for us to be here: and let us make three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias: not knowing what he said.
34 While he thus spake, there came a cloud, and overshadowed them: and they feared as they entered into the cloud.
35 And there came a voice out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him.
36 And when the voice was past, Jesus was found alone. And they kept it close, and told no man in those days any of those things which they had seen.
KJV


Revelation 1:12-16
12 And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks;
13 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.
14 His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire;
15 And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters.
16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength.
KJV


And, although these last two passages are from the New Earth's time period, they give us the same idea for the Millennium:

Revelation 21:23-25
23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.
24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.
25 And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.
KJV


Revelation 22:5
5 And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.
KJV


Also, consider human beings in that Presence:

Mosheh (Moses) was exposed to the Presence of God and his face began to shine in sympathetic vibration to His light:

Exodus 34:29-35
29 And it came to pass, when Moses came down from mount Sinai with the two tables of testimony in Moses' hand, when he came down from the mount, that Moses wist not that the skin of his face shone while he talked with him.
30 And when Aaron and all the children of Israel saw Moses, behold, the skin of his face shone; and they were afraid to come nigh him.
31 And Moses called unto them; and Aaron and all the rulers of the congregation returned unto him: and Moses talked with them.
32 And afterward all the children of Israel came nigh: and he gave them in commandment all that the Lord had spoken with him in mount Sinai.
33 And till Moses had done speaking with them, he put a vail on his face.
34 But when Moses went in before the Lord to speak with him, he took the vail off, until he came out. And he came out, and spake unto the children of Israel that which he was commanded.
35 And the children of Israel saw the face of Moses, that the skin of Moses' face shone: and Moses put the vail upon his face again, until he went in to speak with him.
KJV


And, we too, in that Presence, will shine!

Matt 13:41-43
41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
KJV


1 Corinthians 15:35-44
35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?
36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:
37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:
38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.
39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.
40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory (same word as in verse 41!): it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
KJV


So, there's good reason to believe that a thousand years in the presence of the One whose face shines brighter than the sun in its strength would be considered to be ONE DAY!
 

veteran

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I well understand that the new heavens and a new earth is for after... the lake of fire event, after God's Great White Throne Judgment.


John 6:39-44
39 And this is the Father's will Which hath sent Me, that of all which He hath given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of Him That sent Me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on Him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
41 The Jews then murmured at Him, because He said, I am the bread which came down from heaven.
42 And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? how is it then that He saith, I came down from heaven?
43 Jesus therefore answered and said unto them, "Murmur not among yourselves.
44 No man can come to Me, except the Father Which hath sent Me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
(KJV)

John 6:54
54 Whoso eateth My flesh, and drinketh My blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
(KJV)

John 11:23-24
23 Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again.
24 Martha saith unto Him, "I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day."
(KJV)


But the end of this 'present' world, i.e., man's works and rudiments of this world, will end at Christ's second coming, for that is the "last day" referred to in the above Scriptures, not the end of the Millennium.
 

Retrobyter

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Shabbat shalom, veteran.

But, IN HIS BRIGHT PRESENCE, "one day" - that "last day" - will endure for a THOUSAND YEARS! And, the Fire doesn't occur at the BEGINNING of that Day; it occurs at the END of that Day!

Furthermore, as you just quoted, the resurrection is at the BEGINNING of that Day! at the BEGINNING of the thousand years! And, that's true because Yeshua` said, "I am the Resurrection and the Life!" Thus, when HE arrives, LIFE arrives and the RESURRECTION can happen!

John 11:25-27
25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
27 She saith unto him, Yea, Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world.
KJV


Sometimes, you've got to "drop the other shoe" to get the whole picture. We won't be waiting around for another 1000 years until the General Resurrection at the end; we will "live and reign with Him!"

Rev 20:4-6
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
KJV


You just have to understand that the END OF THE AGE is at the END OF THE MILLENNIUM, NOT at its BEGINNING! The "ages" are divided by the judgments of the Flood and the Fire, as Peter noted for us.

Have a blessed Shabbat!
 

veteran

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Shabbat shalom, veteran.

But, IN HIS BRIGHT PRESENCE, "one day" - that "last day" - will endure for a THOUSAND YEARS! And, the Fire doesn't occur at the BEGINNING of that Day; it occurs at the END of that Day!

Furthermore, as you just quoted, the resurrection is at the BEGINNING of that Day! at the BEGINNING of the thousand years! And, that's true because Yeshua` said, "I am the Resurrection and the Life!" Thus, when HE arrives, LIFE arrives and the RESURRECTION can happen!

John 11:25-27
25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
27 She saith unto him, Yea, Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world.
KJV


Sometimes, you've got to "drop the other shoe" to get the whole picture. We won't be waiting around for another 1000 years until the General Resurrection at the end; we will "live and reign with Him!"

Rev 20:4-6
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
KJV


You just have to understand that the END OF THE AGE is at the END OF THE MILLENNIUM, NOT at its BEGINNING! The "ages" are divided by the judgments of the Flood and the Fire, as Peter noted for us.

Have a blessed Shabbat!



2 Pet 3:10
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
(KJV)

That "as a thief in the night" marker is specific to the EVENT of Christ's second coming.

That's on the "last trump" (7th Trumpet) which Paul declared in 1 Cor.15 is also on that day of Christ's return. Don't you recall the events he said will occur on that "last trump"? That's when the general resurrection will occur, and all those alive on earth will be changed "at the twinkling of an eye". That's the day the OT prophets spoke of, with God saying He is going bring an end to this present time with a great shaking, like turning a bottle upside down with its contents gurgling out, with a destruction of the Gog armies coming out of the northern quarters upon Jerusalem, with the 'vail' cast over all nations and peoples being removed on that day.

I realize what you're saying, that "the day of the Lord" only BEGINS... with Christ's arrival and continues throughout His thousand years reign. I agree with that part, but not about the time of destruction of man's works off this earth. The plague God brings in Zechariah 14 of His enemies being burned up is about destruction of the flesh from this present world, not at the end of Christ's thousand years reign.

That's why in Rev.20, for the "thousand years" timing, we're shown about the "second death", revealing that it is the ONLY Type of death still remaining after Christ's return. The idea of a first death (of flesh) will be over at Christ's second coming, which is why all will be either resurrected to the "spiritual body" or changed to the "spiritual body" for Christ's Millennium reign (as per John 5:28-29; 1 Cor.15; Isaiah 25; Acts 24:15). In 1 Cor.15, per the Greek, Paul revealed the resurrected unjust will not have put on immortality through Christ Jesus, that their resurrection state will still be a liable to perish condition, subject to the "second death".
 

sam

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Why not we search in The Bible to find who are the 'firstfruits'?

In Jermiah 2:3 we have the answer.

"Israel was holiness to the Lord,
The firstfruits of His increase..."

I don't think they are the remnants.

We read in Rev 7:4 of 144000 who were sealed before the time Apostle John was brought in to witness the angel with the seal talking to the 4 angels getting ready to start with their mission of disaster on the enviornment of the earth.
Those 144000 ( an absolute number) are servants of God with a subtitle "from all the tribes of Israel".
We read in Heb 11:26 that Moses a man knowing Christ. So was Abraham (John 8:56).
 

Retrobyter

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Shalom, veteran.

2 Pet 3:10
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
(KJV)

That "as a thief in the night" marker is specific to the EVENT of Christ's second coming.

That's on the "last trump" (7th Trumpet) which Paul declared in 1 Cor.15 is also on that day of Christ's return. Don't you recall the events he said will occur on that "last trump"? That's when the general resurrection will occur, and all those alive on earth will be changed "at the twinkling of an eye". That's the day the OT prophets spoke of, with God saying He is going bring an end to this present time with a great shaking, like turning a bottle upside down with its contents gurgling out, with a destruction of the Gog armies coming out of the northern quarters upon Jerusalem, with the 'vail' cast over all nations and peoples being removed on that day.

I realize what you're saying, that "the day of the Lord" only BEGINS... with Christ's arrival and continues throughout His thousand years reign. I agree with that part, but not about the time of destruction of man's works off this earth. The plague God brings in Zechariah 14 of His enemies being burned up is about destruction of the flesh from this present world, not at the end of Christ's thousand years reign.

That's why in Rev.20, for the "thousand years" timing, we're shown about the "second death", revealing that it is the ONLY Type of death still remaining after Christ's return. The idea of a first death (of flesh) will be over at Christ's second coming, which is why all will be either resurrected to the "spiritual body" or changed to the "spiritual body" for Christ's Millennium reign (as per John 5:28-29; 1 Cor.15; Isaiah 25; Acts 24:15). In 1 Cor.15, per the Greek, Paul revealed the resurrected unjust will not have put on immortality through Christ Jesus, that their resurrection state will still be a liable to perish condition, subject to the "second death".

You're neglecting the fact that the general resurrection does NOT occur at the beginning of the Millennium, according to Yochanan (John), but at the END of the Millennium:

Revelation 20:1-15
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
KJV


The first part of verse 5 is parenthetical. The rest of verses 4 through 6 are talking about the first resurrection, the resurrection of the just! It's not until verses 12 and 13 that we have the second resurrection, the general resurrection, which includes the resurrection of the condemned! It is to THIS resurrection that the first part of verse 5 was referring. HOWEVER, BOTH resurrections occur on the Day of the Lord, one at the BEGINNING of the Day, and the other at the END of the Day! And, BOTH occur BEFORE the end of the age!

You've also made an assumption to say, "the general resurrection will occur, and all those alive on earth will be changed 'at the twinkling of an eye.'" Your assumption is that 1 Corinthians 15:50-58 is about the general resurrection. I don't believe so. I believe it is about the resurrection of the just, which happens PRIOR to the general resurrection. The key verse that suggests this is verse 54 with respect to verse 57:

1 Corinthians 15:54-57
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
KJV


I don't believe this "victory" is for everyone in a GENERAL resurrection, but is strictly for those who are Yeshua`s at His coming! Why would God give the condemned "victory?"

See, the Millennium is NOT the age of perfection, nor is it a time of perfect bliss and happiness! If that's what you're thinking, you've confused it with the New Earth. The time of the Millennium, when Yeshua` is reigning as haMelekh Yisra'el, the King of Isra'el, and enemy-by-enemy He becomes haMelekh M'lakhiym, the King of Kings, is a time of CONFLICT and RESTITUTION for wrongs done. It will be a thousand years of Yeshua` untangling the web of who did what to whom! God can forgive sin, and human beings should forgive one another, but forgiveness is only HALF of what needs to be done when someone wrongs someone else. The guilty party should also make restitution to the wronged party! It is the perpetuation of evil to think that one can wrong someone and all will be forgiven, and he or she will never have any consequences for his or her actions! He or she can't be allowed to get away with it! I'm afraid that all too often that's the way those of us called "Christians" believe, even if we would never dream of saying it out loud.

I remember, while growing up in a Baptist church, singing a couple of songs:

Gone, gone, gone, gone,
Yes, my sins are gone.
Now my soul is free and
In my heart's a song.

Buried in the deepest sea,
Yes, that's good enough for me.
I shall live eternally. Praise God!
My sins are G-O-N-E, gone!

And,...

Verse 1:
You ask me why I'm happy;
So, I'll just tell you why,
Because my sins are gone!
And, when i meet the scoffers
Who ask me where they are,
I say, "My sins are gone!"

Chorus:
They're underneath the blood
On the cross of Calvary,
As far removed as darkness is from dawn!
In the sea of God's forgetfulness,
That's good enough for me!
Praise God! My sins are gone!

Verse 2:
When Satan comes to tempt me
And tries to make me doubt,
I say, "My sins are gone!
You got me into trouble
But Jesus got me out!
Praise God! My sins are gone!

Verse 3:
I'm living now for Jesus;
I'm happy night and day,
Because my sins are gone!
My soul is filled with music;
With all my heart I say,
I'm glad my sins are gone!

I used to sing those happy little tunes to the top of my lungs, all the while "secretly" sinning and hoping that God would just forgive me and forget my sin! THEN, I was given a wake-up call: The tears aren't wiped away until AFTER the Millennium in Revelation 21:4, NOT when we "get to Heaven!"

I had always been taught that it was DURING the 7 years of Tribulation that we would be in "Heaven" before the Judgment (Bema) Seat of Christ, receiving or not receiving rewards for our actions as Christians, and that God, having completely forgiven us for our sins, would not bring up the sins for which His Son paid. THEN I learned that an Isra'eli King was the Supreme Court Judge for Isra'el, and that Yeshua` was to be King of Isra'el all the while during that 1000 years! He will be judging men on earth for the duration of the Millennium! It's a sobering thing to put 2 and 2 together!

I also learned that even the Jews consider Psalm 2 a Messianic Psalm!

Psalm 2:1-12
1 Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?
2 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the Lord, and against his anointed, saying,
3 "Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us."
4 He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the LORD shall have them in derision.
5 Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure.
6 "Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.
7 I will declare the decree: 'the Lord hath said unto me, <<Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.
9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.>>'
10 Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth.
11 Serve the Lord with fear, and rejoice with trembling.
12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him."
KJV (highlighting, colors, and quotation marks supplied)

God the Father's words are in purple; Yeshua`s words are in red, and general text is in green. This particular scenario has not yet taken place, although the attitude in verses 1-3 has already begun, and the decree has already been made. It is a scene in which YHWH says, "I have set my King upon my holy hill of Tsiown!" It's a scene in which the kings of the earth feel they are bound with "bands" and "cords" under God and His King! It is a time in which the Messiah - the King - shall "break them with a rod of iron" and "dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel!" It is a tme when the Messiah - the Son - could be angry and one would "perish from the way (the road), when His wrath is kindled but a little!" THESE are the characteristics of the Millennium! It may take Him a thousand years to do so, but the Messiah will subdue EVERY ONE OF HIS ENEMIES until only death remains to be defeated!

Just some things to consider.
 

veteran

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Aug 6, 2010
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Shalom, veteran.

You're neglecting the fact that the general resurrection does NOT occur at the beginning of the Millennium, according to Yochanan (John), but at the END of the Millennium:

No I'm not. The idea of a general resurrection is about a resurrection of BOTH the just and... the unjust, at the same time at Christ's second coming. That's what the John 5:28-29 Scripture reveals. And with 1 Corinthians 15 about the last trump change at a twinkling of an eye, that's for all... still alive upon the earth at Christ's second coming, because Paul was teaching that from Isaiah 25. The idea then is...:

At Christ's second coming:
a - for those who have died, both just and unjust - the resurrection
b - for those still alive on earth, both just and unjust, the change to the spiritual body at the twinkling of an eye


The first part of verse 5 is parenthetical.

Rev 20:5
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
(KJV)

The underlined part above is about Christ's elect that reign with Him during the "thousand years". The other statement is only about the spiritually dead, the resurrected that are still subject to the "second death". Rev.20 reveals those spiritually dead as the nations that exist during Christ's thousand years reign. It's simple once one understands the concept of flesh death is over on the "last trump" when Jesus comes, and the only death remaining after that is the "second death", a death to one's spirit and soul, not one's flesh.

The 2nd inferred... resurrection, is a resurrection unto Life of some of those "dead" who are saved during Christ's thousand years reign. This is why the nations of Rev.20 are NOT judged until the Great White Throne Judgment at the end, with the books opened to see if any of their names are found.

Thus the real idea of the "lived not again" phrase in Rev.20:5 about the "dead" (spiritually dead), is only about living in the Eternal Life sense, since that's the only type of Life after Christ's coming. Well, the spiritually dead are not going to have Eternal Life in Christ DURING the "thousand years", but they will exist and go through that thousand years reign under Christ and His elect. The Old Testament prophets give details about their existence in that time, just as Rev.20 does also.
 

revturmoil

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Feb 26, 2011
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if you read revelations you will see that after rev 3 there is no mention of the church at all until rev 19. now i am not a person who has done any great research into rev but to me rev 16:15 is referring to those that are going through the Great trib. this is not the church that is being referred too here but people that were saved during the great trib. Jesus is telling them to stay alert for when he comes for them.

i am all for you believing in a post trib rapture but as for me i do not plan on being here for it.

Well that's not true! The words saints, brethren, martyrs, prophets, fellowservants, "servants the prophets," them that worship therein (temple), and the quote... gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe. These are the church as opposed to "those who have not the seal of God."

Now. Wouldn't you think that if such a blessed, rare and tremendous event like the return of Christ would occur "before the tribulation," for the resurrection of the righteous dead and removal of the saints, there would be at least one verse of prophecy that proves Christ does return before the tribulation?

I challenge you or anyone else to quote one verse of prophecy that says Christ returns before the tribulation.

This alone should be one of the many red flags to all of you who have fallen for pre-tribulationism!