Refuting soul sleep, aka dirt nap doctrine

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liafailrock

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Well, question one is answered in the OP:

Before Jesus came, there were two compartments in the heart of the earth at that time. One compartment, called Abraham’s bosom, aka paradise, held all of the righteous dead, because no soul could go to heaven until Messiah atoned for sins.


It was separated by a great chasm from the torments compartment that the damned were put in, called Hell.


Jesus tells us about this in Luke 16 starting in verse 19.


When Jesus died His spirit descended into the heart, middle of the earth, and He preached to those spirits held in captivity there, most likely telling them He is Messiah and the Son of God who died for sins.


1Pe 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

1Pe 3:19 By which also he went and PREACHED unto the SPIRITS in PRISON.


Eph 4:8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, HE LED CAPTIVITY CAPTIVE, and gave gifts unto men.

Eph 4:9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also DESCENDED first into the LOWER PARTS OF THE EARTH?

Eph 4:10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)


When He rose from the dead he emptied out paradise and took their spirits with them, which is why many dead people also rose and went into the city, after His resurrection.


Mat 27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,

Mat 27:53 And came out of the graves AFTER HIS RESURRECTION , and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.


Now those who die in Christ go to heaven - He moved paradise from in the earth, to heaven because He atoned for sins.


John the revelator was caught up into heaven, and saw SOULS there.


Rev 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the SOULS of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

Does Jesus speak in parables? A parable is symbolic of something spoken specifically so the hearers did not understand. Then, what about John 3:13? Revelation is also symbolic. Isn't under the altar a strange place for souls to be?
 

liafailrock

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1) Sheol, the dusty place of the dead, the righteous and unrighteous, to wait for the Harrowing.
2) Because man was made to have a body and soul, a unity of matter and spirit. It is unnatural for a human to be deprived of this and moreover existing in a separated state like that is a sign of death (death is in essence just disintegration) which God does not will, and in conquering death God will necessarily conquer this also.
3) I do not know, but it is almost certainly like the angels, who are spirits without bodies that are conscious, exist forever, and act in time. The disembodied Saints also act in time and are currently residing with the angels so whatever reference they have these also have.

That there is a continuation of consciousness is necessary considering that we know from ourselves that we can be aware of things having nothing to do with the body or "lower parts" of the soul, there is then no reason for that "portion of the soul" to stop having awareness of those things which it knows like that.
Thanks for the answers. My questions are rhetorical, however, to prove /disprove the doctrine by simply reasoning in the Scriptures.
 
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liafailrock

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Protestants who subscribe to the immortal soul doctrine reflect the absolute irony of modern Protestantism. Modern Protestants say the "soul sleep" doctrine isn't biblical, but Martin Luther himself disagreed with this position by stating the Bible teaches that the dead are in their graves waiting to be resurrected:

"It is probable, in my opinion, that with very few exceptions indeed, the dead sleep in utter insensibility until the day of judgement...On what authority can it be said that the souls of the dead may not sleep...in the same way that the living pass in profound slumber the interval between their downlying at night and their uprising in the morning?"

"Solomon judges that the dead are asleep, and feel nothing at all. For the dead lie there accounting neither days nor years, but when are awaked
(resurrected) they shall seem to have slept scarce one minute."

"Thus after death, the soul goes to its bedchamber and to its peace, and while it is sleeping, it does not realize that its sleep, and God preserves the awakened soul. God is able to awake Elijah(it is certainly interesting that Martin knew Elijah died and did not go to Heaven, again contradicting the modern Protestant belief that he is still alive in Heaven), Moses, and others...so that they will live. But how can that be? That we do not know; we satisfy ourselves with the example of bodily sleep, and with what God says: it is a sleep, a rest, and a peace."

Martin even went a step further by correctly proclaiming the immortal soul doctrine is among the "endless monstrosities in the Roman dunghill of decretals". In other words, Martin Luther said the immortal soul doctrine is pagan lie on a pile of other unbiblical lies that were taught by Catholics, and he was 100% correct in that regard.

In light of Martin Luther's own words and the modern Protestant belief that Martin Luther restored the truth of the Bible, Protestants who believe in the immortal soul doctrine are faced with a logical paradox: if Martin Luther indeed restored the truth of the Bible like they believe he did, then the Protestants who subscribe to the immortal soul doctrine have to either accept the fact that they have been deceived or deem Martin Luther a false teacher and deceiver. They cannot have it both ways and say they are against Catholic doctrines while stubbornly clinging to them.

From what I observe, the whole idea of the premise of this thread as well as final judgement destinations hinges on the immortal soul doctrine. In other words, the belief that the soul does not die and is immortal. It's like one guy once said to me, "we ALL have eternal life. We all do. It's where are you going to spend it?" Immediately verses came to mind about the Lord giving one eternal life (who previously did not have it) and verses that say to the effect, "The soul that sins shall die."
 

BarneyFife

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Are the Dead Really Dead?


Death just might be one of the most misunderstood subjects today. For many, death is shrouded in mystery and evokes dread, uncertainty, and hopelessness. Others believe that their deceased loved ones are not dead at all, but instead live with them or in other realms. Millions are confused about the relationship between the body, spirit, and soul. But does it really matter what you believe? Yes—absolutely! What you believe about the dead will have a profound impact on what happens to you in the near future. There’s no room for guessing! This Study Guide will give you exactly what God says on this subject. Get ready for a real eye-opener!

Adam was created by God in the beginning.


1. How did humans get here in the first place?
“The Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being” (Genesis 2:7).

Answer: God made us from dust in the beginning.




2. What happens when a person dies?
“Then the dust will return to the earth as it was, and the spirit will return to God who gave it” (Ecclesiastes 12:7).

Answer: The body turns to dust again, and the spirit goes back to God, who gave it. The spirit of every person who dies—whether saved or unsaved—returns to God at death.




3. What is the “spirit” that returns to God at death?
“The body without the spirit is dead” (James 2:26).
“The spirit of God is in my nostrils” (Job 27:3 KJV).

Answer: The spirit that returns to God at death is the breath of life. Nowhere in all of God’s book does the “spirit” have any life, wisdom, or feeling after a person dies. It is the “breath of life” and nothing more.

These four people are four souls.


4. What is a "soul"?
“The Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul” (Genesis 2:7 KJV).

Answer: A soul is a living being. A soul is always a combination of two things: body plus breath. A soul cannot exist unless body and breath are combined. God’s Word teaches that we are souls—not that we have souls.


Body(Dust) - Breath(Spirit) = Death (No Soul)


5. Do souls die?
“The soul that sinneth, it shall die” (Ezekiel 18:20 KJV).
“Every living soul died in the sea” (Revelation 16:3 KJV).

Answer: According to God’s Word, souls do die! We are souls, and souls die. Man is mortal (Job 4:17).
Only God is immortal (1 Timothy 6:15, 16). The concept of an undying, immortal soul is not found in the Bible, which teaches that souls are subject to death.
 
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BarneyFife

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The Bible suggests that King David will be in God’s kingdom, but that he is in his grave now, where he awaits the resurrection.


6. Do good people go to heaven when they die?
“All who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth” (John 5:28, 29).
“David … is both dead and buried, and his tomb is with us to this day. … For David did not ascend into the heavens” (Acts 2:29, 34).
“If I wait, the grave is mine house” (Job 17:13 KJV).

Answer: No. People do not go to heaven or to hell at death. They don’t go anywhere—but they wait in their graves for the resurrection.




7. How much does one know or comprehend after death?
“The living know that they will die; but the dead know nothing, and they have no more reward, for the memory of them is forgotten. Also their love, their hatred, and their envy have now perished; nevermore will they have a share in anything done under the sun. … There is no work or device or knowledge or wisdom in the grave where you are going” (Ecclesiastes 9:5, 6, 10).
“The dead do not praise the Lord” (Psalm 115:17).

Answer: God says that the dead know absolutely nothing!


Though millions think it is possible, the dead cannot communicate with the living.


8. But can’t the dead communicate with the living, and aren’t they aware of what the living are doing?
“Man lies down and does not rise. Till the heavens are no more, they will not awake nor be roused from their sleep. … His sons come to honor, and he does not know it; they are brought low, and he does not perceive it” (Job 14:12, 21).
“Nevermore will they have a share in anything done under the sun” (Ecclesiastes 9:6).

Answer: No. The dead cannot contact the living, nor do they know what the living are doing. They are dead. Their thoughts have perished (Psalm 146:4 KJV).




9. Jesus called the unconscious state of the dead “sleep” in John 11:11–14. How long will they sleep?
“Man lies down and does not rise. Till the heavens are no more” (Job 14:12).
“The day of the Lord will come … in which the heavens will pass away” (2 Peter 3:10).

Answer: The dead will sleep until the great day of the Lord at the end of the world. In death humans are totally unconscious with no activity or knowledge of any kind.




10. What happens to the righteous dead at the second coming of Christ?
“Behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work” (Revelation 22:12).
“The Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout. … And the dead in Christ will rise. … And thus we shall always be with the Lord” (1 Thessalonians 4:16, 17).
“We shall all be changed—in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye … and the dead will be raised incorruptible. … For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality” (1 Corinthians 15:51–53).

Answer: They will be rewarded. They will be raised, given immortal bodies, and caught up to meet the Lord in the air. There would be no purpose in a resurrection if people were taken to heaven at death.
 
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BarneyFife

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11. What was the devil’s first lie on Earth?
“The serpent said to the woman, ‘You will not surely die’ ” (Genesis 3:4).
“That serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan” (Revelation 12:9).

Answer: You will not die.




12. Why did the devil lie to Eve about death? Could this subject be more important than we think?
Answer: The devil’s lie that we will not die is one of the pillars of his teachings. For thousands of years, he has worked powerful, deceptive miracles to trick people into thinking they are receiving messages from the spirits of the dead. (Examples: Magicians of Egypt—Exodus 7:11; Woman of Endor—1 Samuel 28:3–25; Sorcerers—Daniel 2:2; A slave girl—Acts 16:16–18.)

A Solemn Warning
In the near future, Satan will again use sorcery—as he did in the prophet Daniel’s day—to deceive the world (Revelation 18:23). Sorcery is a supernatural agency that claims to receive its power and wisdom from the spirits of the dead.

Posing as Jesus' Disciples
Posing as godly loved ones who have died, saintly clergymen who are now dead, Bible prophets, or even the apostles of Christ (2 Corinthians 11:13), Satan and his angels will deceive billions. Those who believe the dead are alive, in any form, will likely be deceived.


All miracle working is not from God, because devils also work miracles.


13. Do devils really work miracles?
“For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles” (Revelation 16:14, KJV).
“False christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect” (Matthew 24:24).

Answer: Yes indeed! Devils work incredibly convincing miracles (Revelation 13:13, 14). Satan will appear as an angel of light (2 Corinthians 11:14) and, even more shocking, as Christ Himself (Matthew 24:23, 24). The universal feeling will be that Christ and His angels are leading out in a fantastic worldwide revival. The entire emphasis will seem so spiritual and be so supernatural that only God’s elect will not be deceived.




14. Why will God's people not be deceived?
“They received the word with all readiness, and searched the Scriptures daily to find out whether these things were so” (Acts 17:11).
“If they do not speak according to this word, it is because there is no light in them” (Isaiah 8:20).

Answer: God’s people will know from their study of His book that the dead are dead, not alive. They will know that a “spirit” claiming to be a deceased loved one is really a devil! God’s people will reject all teachers and miracle workers who claim to receive special “light” or work miracles by contacting the spirits of the dead. And God’s people will likewise reject as dangerous and false all teachings that claim the dead are alive in any form, anywhere.




15. Back in Moses’ day, what did God command should be done to people who taught that the dead were alive?
“A man or a woman who is a medium, or who has familiar spirits, shall surely be put to death; they shall stone them with stones” (Leviticus 20:27).

Answer: God insisted that mediums and others with “familiar spirits” (who claimed to be able to contact the dead) should be stoned to death. This shows how God regards the false teaching that the dead are alive.
 
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BarneyFife

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16. Will the righteous people who are raised in the resurrection ever die again?
“Those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead … nor can they die anymore” (Luke 20:35, 36).

“God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away” (Revelation 21:4).


Answer: No! Death, sorrow, crying, and tragedy will never enter into God’s new kingdom. “When this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: ‘Death is swallowed up in victory’ ” (1 Corinthians 15:54).



17. Belief in reincarnation is expanding rapidly today. Is this teaching biblical?
“The living know that they will die; but the dead know nothing. … Nevermore will they have a share in anything done under the sun” (Ecclesiastes 9:5, 6).

Answer: Almost half the people on earth believe in reincarnation, a teaching that the soul never dies but is instead continually reborn in a different kind of body with each succeeding generation. This teaching, however, is contrary to Scripture.

The Bible Says
After death a person: returns to dust (Psalms 104:29), knows nothing (Ecclesiastes 9:5), possesses no mental powers (Psalms 146:4), has nothing to do with anything on earth (Ecclesiastes 9:6), does not live (2 Kings 20:1), waits in the grave (Job 17:13), and continues not (Job 14:1, 2).

Satan's Invention
We learned in questions 11 and 12 that Satan invented the teaching that the dead are alive. Reincarnation, channeling, communication with spirits, spirit worship, and the "undying soul" are all inventions of Satan, with one aim to convince people that when you die you are not really dead. When people believe that the dead are alive, "spirits of devils, working miracles" (Revelation 16:14) and posing as spirits of the dead will be able to deceive and lead them astray virtually 100 percent of the time (Matthew 24:24).




18. Are you thankful for the Bible, which tells us the truth on this sensitive subject of death?
Answer:
_________________________________________________________
 
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BarneyFife

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1. Didn’t the thief on the cross go to paradise with Christ the day He died

No. In fact, on Sunday morning Jesus said to Mary, “I have not yet ascended to My Father” (John 20:17). This shows that Christ did not go to heaven at death. It’s important to note that the punctuation we see in the Bible today is not original, but added centuries later by translators. The comma in Luke 23:43 would be better placed after the word “today” rather than before, so that the passage reads, “Assuredly, I say to you today, you will be with Me in Paradise.” Another way to put this verse that makes sense in the immediate context is: “I’m telling you today—when it seems that I can save no one, when I Myself am being crucified as a criminal—I give you the assurance today that you will be with me in Paradise.” Christ’s kingdom of glory will be set up at His second coming (Matthew 25:31), and the righteous of all ages will enter it at that time (1 Thessalonians 4:15–17) and not at death.

2. Doesn’t the Bible speak of the “undying,” “immortal” soul?

No. The undying, immortal soul is not mentioned in the Bible. The word “immortal” is found only once in the Bible, and it is in reference to God (1 Timothy 1:17).

3. At death the body returns to dust and the spirit (or breath) returns to God. But where does the soul go?

It goes nowhere. Instead, it simply ceases to exist. Two things must be combined to make a soul: body and breath. When the breath departs, the soul ceases to exist because it is a combination of two things. When you turn off a light, where does the light go? It doesn’t go anywhere. It just ceases to exist. Two things must combine to make a light: a bulb and electricity. Without the combination, a light is impossible. So with the soul; unless body and breath are combined, there can be no soul. There is no such thing as a “disembodied soul.”

4. Does the word “soul” ever mean anything other than a living being?

Yes. It may mean also (1) life itself, or (2) the mind, or intellect. No matter which meaning is intended, the soul is still a combination of two things (body and breath), and it
ceases to exist at death.

5. Can you explain John 11:26: “Whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die”?

This refers not to the first death, which all people die (Hebrews 9:27), but to the second death, which only the wicked die and from which there is no resurrection (Revelation 2:11; 21:8).

6. Matthew 10:28 says, “Do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul.” Doesn’t this prove that the soul is undying?

No. It proves the opposite. The last half of the same verse proves that souls do die. It says, “Rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.” The word “soul” here means life and refers to eternal life, which is a gift (Romans 6:23) that will be given to the righteous at the last day (John 6:54). No one can take away the eternal life that God bestows. (See also Luke 12:4, 5.)

7. Doesn’t 1 Peter 4:6 say the gospel was preached to dead people?

No. It says the gospel “was” preached to those who “are” dead. They are dead now, but the gospel “was” preached to them while they were yet living.
 

BarneyFife

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The Bible makes it clear in 2 Corinthians ch. 5, that our body is only a home, that WE leave at death.


2Co 5:1 For we know that if our earthly HOUSE of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.


2Co 5:6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are AT HOME in the body, we are absent from the Lord:


2Co 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be ABSENT FROM the BODY, , and to be PRESENT with the Lord.


Scripture further makes that clear that at salvation, the Holy Spirit comes into our house, the body, and changes it from just a house, into the TEMPLE of the Holy Spirit.


1Co 6:19 What? know ye not that your BODY is the TEMPLE of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?


It further makes it clear that our body is a house when Jesus gives an example of a demon possessed man, who had a demon cast out of him, but the demon went out and got more demons, and returned to the man, and found his HOUSE swept clean, and moved right back in and brought the other demons with him, so that man was worse off than he was before.


Mat 12:43 When the unclean spirit is gone OUT OF a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none.

Mat 12:44 Then he saith, I will return into my HOUSE from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished.

Mat 12:45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they ENTER IN and DWELL there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first.


In 1st Kings, Elijah raises a dead boy. He stretched his body over the dead child and prayed three times for the dead child’s soul to come BACK into the child’s body. When the soul RETURNED to the body, the dead child came back to life.


The dead child’s soul wasn’t hanging around with the child’s body - the soul had LEFT and had to RETURN for the child to live again.


1Ki 17:21 And he stretched himself upon the child three times, and cried unto the LORD, and said, O LORD my God, I pray thee, let this child's SOUL come into him again.

1Ki 17:22 And the LORD heard the voice of Elijah; and the SOUL of the child CAME INTO HIM AGAIN, and he revived.

When Rachel was dying, her soul was departing.


Gen 35:18 And as her SOUL WAS DEPARTING (for she was dying), she called his name Ben-oni; but his father called him Benjamin.

Gen 35:19 So Rachel died, and she was buried on the way to Ephrath (that is, Bethlehem),


When Stephen was stoned to death, he looked into heaven and saw Jesus, and said, Lord Jesus, receive my SPIRIT.


He expected to be absent from his body, and to be present with the Lord, right then, not later on after taking a dirt nap first.


Act 7:56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.

Act 7:57 Then they cried out with a loud voice, and stopped their ears, and ran upon him with one accord,

Act 7:58 And cast him out of the city, and stoned him: and the witnesses laid down their clothes at a young man's feet, whose name was Saul.

Act 7:59 And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, RECEIVE MY SPIRIT


Hell, aka the place of everlasting fire, was originally created for satan and his angels, not for man. Jesus made it clear that the same everlasting fire that condemned humans go to, was created for the devil and his angels.


Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into EVERLASTING FIRE, prepared for the DEVIL and his ANGELS:


Some teach hell is the grave, yet it’s clear that hell is a PLACE that some of the fallen angels are in right now, in chains, awaiting judgment.


Jud 1:6 And the ANGELS which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting CHAINS under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.


Fallen angels are spirits - they have no BODIES to bury in the dirt, but yet they ARE in a place called HELL right now.


2Pe 2:4 For if God spared not the ANGELS that sinned, but cast them down TO HELL, and delivered them into CHAINS of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;


Notice that they aren’t SLEEPING in hell, or they wouldn’t need to be chained to prevent their escape.


Angels are spirits. Heb 1:13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?

Heb 1:14 Are they not all ministering SPIRITS sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?


Spirits have no bodies to bury in the ground, so hell cant be the grave.


Before the Messiah, Jesus, came and atoned for our sins, there were two compartments in the heart of the earth at that time. One compartment, called Abraham’s bosom, aka paradise, held all of the righteous dead, because no soul could go to heaven until Messiah atoned for sins.


It was separated by a great chasm from the torments compartment that the damned were put in, called Hell.


Jesus tells us about this in Luke 16 starting in verse 19.


When Jesus died His spirit descended into the heart, middle of the earth, and He preached to those spirits held in captivity there, most likely telling them He is Messiah and the Son of God who died for sins.


1Pe 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

1Pe 3:19 By which also he went and PREACHED unto the SPIRITS in PRISON.


Eph 4:8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, HE LED CAPTIVITY CAPTIVE, and gave gifts unto men.

Eph 4:9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also DESCENDED first into the LOWER PARTS OF THE EARTH?

Eph 4:10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)


When He rose from the dead he emptied out paradise and took their spirits with them, which is why many dead people also rose and went into the city, after His resurrection.


Mat 27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,

Mat 27:53 And came out of the graves AFTER HIS RESURRECTION , and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.


Now those who die in Christ go to heaven - He moved paradise from in the earth, to heaven because He atoned for sins.


John the revelator was caught up into heaven, and saw SOULS there.


Rev 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the SOULS of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:


When Jesus returns from heaven to resurrect the dead, He brings those souls John saw in heaven with Him to reunite with their risen and immortal bodies:


1Th 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God BRING WITH HIM.

1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive andremain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:


Some claim hell is the grave. It’s not. It’s a place in the earth that holds conscious beings in it, and when when every knee bows to Jesus on judgment day, even those in hell bow down.


Php 2:9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:

Php 2:10 That at the name of Jesus EVERY knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and THINGS UNDER THE EARTH.

Php 2:11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.


Rev 5:3 And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither UNDER THE EARTH, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.


Rev 5:13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, AND UNDER THE EARTH and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I SAYING , Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.

Soul sleep, aka dirt nap doctrine, is unbiblical, and wrong doctrine.
"Dirt nap doctrine" is simply one of those thinly-veiled insults intended to insult those who conscientiously disagree. And it is characteristic of the type of behavior that people call "Christian" on the Interweb.
 
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BarneyFife

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I'm not surprised if someone actually turned it into an unbiblical doctrine, carnal minds do that sort of thing with every spiritual concept. Whatever we can't understand in spiritual terms, we automatically understand in carnal terms. That's our nature according to the flesh.
Or, it could just be that they have been taught and brought up differently. When I was a youngster, I lived on a block where about six neighbors shared a huge space consisting of our collective backyards. We were at an age where we were all being taught something about death and spirituality, but most likely different than each other. We were aware of neither carnal nor spiritual inclinations. We just wanted to hurry up and finish lunch or supper so we could all get back outside and play baseball/softball in our huge backyard(s). It is a mistake to ascribe intent and motives to others. What happens to people/(Christians) when they "grow up?" :)
 

Curtis

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"Dirt nap doctrine" is simply one of those thinly-veiled insults intended to insult those who conscientiously disagree. And it is characteristic of the type of behavior that people call "Christian" on the Interweb.

Since the doctrine claims the soul sleeps with the body in the ground, and since last I checked the ground is made of dirt, then dirt nap doctrine is an appropriate and accurate description of it.
 

BarneyFife

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Since the doctrine claims the soul sleeps with the body in the ground, and since last I checked the ground is made of dirt, then dirt nap doctrine is an appropriate and accurate description of it.
No doubt. Who said it wasn't descriptive? By the way, the doctrine teaches that the soul is a body + breath. There is no Hellenistic duality involved as you describe. :)
 

Curtis

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Does Jesus speak in parables? A parable is symbolic of something spoken specifically so the hearers did not understand. Then, what about John 3:13? Revelation is also symbolic. Isn't under the altar a strange place for souls to be?

A parable compares one thing to another as a teaching tool - the kingdom of Heaven (one thing) is like a farmer planting a crop (another thing) - parables are also vague and not specific - names are not mentioned because parables are not literal accounts of real people.

The account of the rich man in Hell is not compared to anything else, and has specific people in it - Lazarus, Abraham - thus is not a metaphor or an analogy, and is not a parable, but a factual account of literal places in the earth, one chamber being hell, the other chamber being paradise.

Maranatha
 

Curtis

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No doubt. Who said it wasn't descriptive? By the way, the doctrine teaches that the soul is a body + breath. There is no Hellenistic duality involved as you describe. :)
That’s not so at all.

Scripture clearly says we are made of body, soul, and spirit, and Jesus said body AND soul are destroyed in hell, leaving the eternal spirit, which cannot be destroyed, which is what is thrown into the lake of fire

Spirit does not mean breath, if it does then God who is a spirit, is only a breath and not a being.
 

BarneyFife

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That’s not so at all.

Scripture clearly says we are made of body, soul, and spirit, and Jesus said body AND soul are destroyed in hell, leaving the eternal spirit, which cannot be destroyed, which is what is thrown into the lake of fire

Spirit does not mean breath, if it does then God who is a spirit, is only a breath and not a being.

I don't think a lot of human logic can explain the workings and purposes of the Almighty. Unconditional immortality takes that which is simple and makes it Hellenistically complicated.

Genesis 2:7 Parallel: And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

John 3:8 Parallel: The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
 

Curtis

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Read the word "life" for "soul" here....her "LIFE" was departing.
Rachel was dying and when her spirit (breath) left her lungs, she expired just like all other humans do when they die.
Animals die the same death....as Solomon wrote at Ecclesiastes 3:19-20...
"For what happens to the children of man and what happens to the beasts is the same; as one dies, so dies the other. They all have the same breath, and man has no advantage over the beasts, for all is vanity. 20 All go to one place. All are from the dust, and to dust all return."

It would be extremely redundant to say that as Rachel was dying her life was departing - it wasn’t her life that was departing as her life was ending, but her soul.

The whole council of scripture refutes dirt nap doctrine - especially 2 Corinthians 5 which is irrefutable that our body is only a home that we leave at death, and that Christians go to be with Jesus immediately.
 

liafailrock

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A parable compares one thing to another as a teaching tool - the kingdom of Heaven (one thing) is like a farmer planting a crop (another thing) - parables are also vague and not specific - names are not mentioned because parables are not literal accounts of real people.

The account of the rich man in Hell is not compared to anything else, and has specific people in it - Lazarus, Abraham - thus is not a metaphor or an analogy, and is not a parable, but a factual account of literal places in the earth, one chamber being hell, the other chamber being paradise.

Maranatha
Then its not a parable.
 
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Abaxvahl

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There is nothing complicated about it, and moreover that is not the doctrine of the immortality the Church holds.

The soul is immortal not because of itself but because God wills it.

That is the doctrine, for nothing which is made is necessarily immortal.
 

Abaxvahl

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