Refuting soul sleep, aka dirt nap doctrine

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Curtis

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The Bible makes it clear in 2 Corinthians ch. 5, that our body is only a home, that WE leave at death.


2Co 5:1 For we know that if our earthly HOUSE of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.


2Co 5:6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are AT HOME in the body, we are absent from the Lord:


2Co 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be ABSENT FROM the BODY, , and to be PRESENT with the Lord.


Scripture further makes that clear that at salvation, the Holy Spirit comes into our house, the body, and changes it from just a house, into the TEMPLE of the Holy Spirit.


1Co 6:19 What? know ye not that your BODY is the TEMPLE of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?


It further makes it clear that our body is a house when Jesus gives an example of a demon possessed man, who had a demon cast out of him, but the demon went out and got more demons, and returned to the man, and found his HOUSE swept clean, and moved right back in and brought the other demons with him, so that man was worse off than he was before.


Mat 12:43 When the unclean spirit is gone OUT OF a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none.

Mat 12:44 Then he saith, I will return into my HOUSE from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished.

Mat 12:45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they ENTER IN and DWELL there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first.


In 1st Kings, Elijah raises a dead boy. He stretched his body over the dead child and prayed three times for the dead child’s soul to come BACK into the child’s body. When the soul RETURNED to the body, the dead child came back to life.


The dead child’s soul wasn’t hanging around with the child’s body - the soul had LEFT and had to RETURN for the child to live again.


1Ki 17:21 And he stretched himself upon the child three times, and cried unto the LORD, and said, O LORD my God, I pray thee, let this child's SOUL come into him again.

1Ki 17:22 And the LORD heard the voice of Elijah; and the SOUL of the child CAME INTO HIM AGAIN, and he revived.

When Rachel was dying, her soul was departing.


Gen 35:18 And as her SOUL WAS DEPARTING (for she was dying), she called his name Ben-oni; but his father called him Benjamin.

Gen 35:19 So Rachel died, and she was buried on the way to Ephrath (that is, Bethlehem),


When Stephen was stoned to death, he looked into heaven and saw Jesus, and said, Lord Jesus, receive my SPIRIT.


He expected to be absent from his body, and to be present with the Lord, right then, not later on after taking a dirt nap first.


Act 7:56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.

Act 7:57 Then they cried out with a loud voice, and stopped their ears, and ran upon him with one accord,

Act 7:58 And cast him out of the city, and stoned him: and the witnesses laid down their clothes at a young man's feet, whose name was Saul.

Act 7:59 And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, RECEIVE MY SPIRIT


Hell, aka the place of everlasting fire, was originally created for satan and his angels, not for man. Jesus made it clear that the same everlasting fire that condemned humans go to, was created for the devil and his angels.


Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into EVERLASTING FIRE, prepared for the DEVIL and his ANGELS:


Some teach hell is the grave, yet it’s clear that hell is a PLACE that some of the fallen angels are in right now, in chains, awaiting judgment.


Jud 1:6 And the ANGELS which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting CHAINS under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.


Fallen angels are spirits - they have no BODIES to bury in the dirt, but yet they ARE in a place called HELL right now.


2Pe 2:4 For if God spared not the ANGELS that sinned, but cast them down TO HELL, and delivered them into CHAINS of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;


Notice that they aren’t SLEEPING in hell, or they wouldn’t need to be chained to prevent their escape.


Angels are spirits. Heb 1:13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?

Heb 1:14 Are they not all ministering SPIRITS sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?


Spirits have no bodies to bury in the ground, so hell cant be the grave.


Before the Messiah, Jesus, came and atoned for our sins, there were two compartments in the heart of the earth at that time. One compartment, called Abraham’s bosom, aka paradise, held all of the righteous dead, because no soul could go to heaven until Messiah atoned for sins.


It was separated by a great chasm from the torments compartment that the damned were put in, called Hell.


Jesus tells us about this in Luke 16 starting in verse 19.


When Jesus died His spirit descended into the heart, middle of the earth, and He preached to those spirits held in captivity there, most likely telling them He is Messiah and the Son of God who died for sins.


1Pe 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

1Pe 3:19 By which also he went and PREACHED unto the SPIRITS in PRISON.


Eph 4:8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, HE LED CAPTIVITY CAPTIVE, and gave gifts unto men.

Eph 4:9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also DESCENDED first into the LOWER PARTS OF THE EARTH?

Eph 4:10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)


When He rose from the dead he emptied out paradise and took their spirits with them, which is why many dead people also rose and went into the city, after His resurrection.


Mat 27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,

Mat 27:53 And came out of the graves AFTER HIS RESURRECTION , and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.


Now those who die in Christ go to heaven - He moved paradise from in the earth, to heaven because He atoned for sins.


John the revelator was caught up into heaven, and saw SOULS there.


Rev 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the SOULS of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:


When Jesus returns from heaven to resurrect the dead, He brings those souls John saw in heaven with Him to reunite with their risen and immortal bodies:


1Th 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God BRING WITH HIM.

1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive andremain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:


Some claim hell is the grave. It’s not. It’s a place in the earth that holds conscious beings in it, and when when every knee bows to Jesus on judgment day, even those in hell bow down.


Php 2:9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:

Php 2:10 That at the name of Jesus EVERY knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and THINGS UNDER THE EARTH.

Php 2:11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.


Rev 5:3 And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither UNDER THE EARTH, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.


Rev 5:13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, AND UNDER THE EARTH and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I SAYING , Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.

Soul sleep, aka dirt nap doctrine, is unbiblical, and wrong doctrine.
 

Abaxvahl

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Soul sleep, aka dirt nap doctrine, is unbiblical, and wrong doctrine.

Amen, this is pretty exhaustive. I will also call to proof Moses at the Transfiguration (he was dead yet spoke with Jesus there) also. Not to mention that although those who believe in the dirt nap will often bring up OT passages that Christ has in fact defeated death and bestowed life to those in the tombs and the state of the dead has fundamentally changed, a fact recognized by all the ancient Churches even to this day. Soul sleep is an innovation and to be rejected on these grounds also.
 

marks

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The Bible makes it clear in 2 Corinthians ch. 5, that our body is only a home, that WE leave at death.
Great post!

One more . . .

Luke 20:37-38 KJV
37) Now that the dead are raised, even Moses shewed at the bush, when he calleth the Lord the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.
38) For he is not a God of the dead, but of the living: for all live unto him.

Much love!
 

GRACE ambassador

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The Bible makes it clear in 2 Corinthians ch. 5, that our body is only a home, that WE leave at death.
Great post!
One more . . .

Luke 20:37-38 KJV
37) Now that the dead are raised, even Moses shewed at the bush, when he calleth the Lord the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.
38) For he is not a God of the dead, but of the living: for all live unto him.

Much love!
Excellent, and Great, and IF I may, One More:

"For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our
Lord Jesus Christ, Who Died
for us, that, whether we wake or sleep,
we should live together With HIM." (1 Thessalonians 5:10 KJB)

Conclusion: NO "dirt nap" SEPARATION, Ever!! Amen?
 

marks

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The Bible makes it clear in 2 Corinthians ch. 5, that our body is only a home, that WE leave at death.


2Co 5:1 For we know that if our earthly HOUSE of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
Curious, do you agree with me that this is also telling us that we now, even while we live in these terrestrial bodies, that at the same time, we now live in the heavens also, with celestial body appropriate to that place?

Your thoughts?

Much love!
 

MatthewG

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Great post!

One more . . .

Luke 20:37-38 KJV
37) Now that the dead are raised, even Moses shewed at the bush, when he calleth the Lord the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.
38) For he is not a God of the dead, but of the living: for all live unto him.

Much love!

Just had this thought, the dead would be those whom are spiritually dead; the spiritually dead would be those who have yet to make the choice to accept Jesus Christ, or those who have heard the truth and rejected it. Those who live are those who are living in Christ Jesus who have been made spiritually alive. God is the judge of both the faithful, and faithless.
 
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michaelvpardo

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I'm pretty sure that the term "dirt nap" is just a joke and not a doctrine, but one that points to a resurrection, a common hope among many religions (and all of Free Masonry.)
I'm not surprised if someone actually turned it into an unbiblical doctrine, carnal minds do that sort of thing with every spiritual concept. Whatever we can't understand in spiritual terms, we automatically understand in carnal terms. That's our nature according to the flesh.
 

liafailrock

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The Bible makes it clear in 2 Corinthians ch. 5, that our body is only a home, that WE leave at death.


2Co 5:1 For we know that if our earthly HOUSE of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.


2Co 5:6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are AT HOME in the body, we are absent from the Lord:


2Co 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be ABSENT FROM the BODY, , and to be PRESENT with the Lord.


Scripture further makes that clear that at salvation, the Holy Spirit comes into our house, the body, and changes it from just a house, into the TEMPLE of the Holy Spirit.


1Co 6:19 What? know ye not that your BODY is the TEMPLE of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?


It further makes it clear that our body is a house when Jesus gives an example of a demon possessed man, who had a demon cast out of him, but the demon went out and got more demons, and returned to the man, and found his HOUSE swept clean, and moved right back in and brought the other demons with him, so that man was worse off than he was before.


Mat 12:43 When the unclean spirit is gone OUT OF a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none.

Mat 12:44 Then he saith, I will return into my HOUSE from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished.

Mat 12:45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they ENTER IN and DWELL there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first.


In 1st Kings, Elijah raises a dead boy. He stretched his body over the dead child and prayed three times for the dead child’s soul to come BACK into the child’s body. When the soul RETURNED to the body, the dead child came back to life.


The dead child’s soul wasn’t hanging around with the child’s body - the soul had LEFT and had to RETURN for the child to live again.


1Ki 17:21 And he stretched himself upon the child three times, and cried unto the LORD, and said, O LORD my God, I pray thee, let this child's SOUL come into him again.

1Ki 17:22 And the LORD heard the voice of Elijah; and the SOUL of the child CAME INTO HIM AGAIN, and he revived.

When Rachel was dying, her soul was departing.


Gen 35:18 And as her SOUL WAS DEPARTING (for she was dying), she called his name Ben-oni; but his father called him Benjamin.

Gen 35:19 So Rachel died, and she was buried on the way to Ephrath (that is, Bethlehem),


When Stephen was stoned to death, he looked into heaven and saw Jesus, and said, Lord Jesus, receive my SPIRIT.


He expected to be absent from his body, and to be present with the Lord, right then, not later on after taking a dirt nap first.


Act 7:56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.

Act 7:57 Then they cried out with a loud voice, and stopped their ears, and ran upon him with one accord,

Act 7:58 And cast him out of the city, and stoned him: and the witnesses laid down their clothes at a young man's feet, whose name was Saul.

Act 7:59 And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, RECEIVE MY SPIRIT


Hell, aka the place of everlasting fire, was originally created for satan and his angels, not for man. Jesus made it clear that the same everlasting fire that condemned humans go to, was created for the devil and his angels.


Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into EVERLASTING FIRE, prepared for the DEVIL and his ANGELS:


Some teach hell is the grave, yet it’s clear that hell is a PLACE that some of the fallen angels are in right now, in chains, awaiting judgment.


Jud 1:6 And the ANGELS which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting CHAINS under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.


Fallen angels are spirits - they have no BODIES to bury in the dirt, but yet they ARE in a place called HELL right now.


2Pe 2:4 For if God spared not the ANGELS that sinned, but cast them down TO HELL, and delivered them into CHAINS of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;


Notice that they aren’t SLEEPING in hell, or they wouldn’t need to be chained to prevent their escape.


Angels are spirits. Heb 1:13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?

Heb 1:14 Are they not all ministering SPIRITS sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?


Spirits have no bodies to bury in the ground, so hell cant be the grave.


Before the Messiah, Jesus, came and atoned for our sins, there were two compartments in the heart of the earth at that time. One compartment, called Abraham’s bosom, aka paradise, held all of the righteous dead, because no soul could go to heaven until Messiah atoned for sins.


It was separated by a great chasm from the torments compartment that the damned were put in, called Hell.


Jesus tells us about this in Luke 16 starting in verse 19.


When Jesus died His spirit descended into the heart, middle of the earth, and He preached to those spirits held in captivity there, most likely telling them He is Messiah and the Son of God who died for sins.


1Pe 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

1Pe 3:19 By which also he went and PREACHED unto the SPIRITS in PRISON.


Eph 4:8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, HE LED CAPTIVITY CAPTIVE, and gave gifts unto men.

Eph 4:9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also DESCENDED first into the LOWER PARTS OF THE EARTH?

Eph 4:10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)


When He rose from the dead he emptied out paradise and took their spirits with them, which is why many dead people also rose and went into the city, after His resurrection.


Mat 27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,

Mat 27:53 And came out of the graves AFTER HIS RESURRECTION , and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.


Now those who die in Christ go to heaven - He moved paradise from in the earth, to heaven because He atoned for sins.


John the revelator was caught up into heaven, and saw SOULS there.


Rev 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the SOULS of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:


When Jesus returns from heaven to resurrect the dead, He brings those souls John saw in heaven with Him to reunite with their risen and immortal bodies:


1Th 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God BRING WITH HIM.

1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive andremain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:


Some claim hell is the grave. It’s not. It’s a place in the earth that holds conscious beings in it, and when when every knee bows to Jesus on judgment day, even those in hell bow down.


Php 2:9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:

Php 2:10 That at the name of Jesus EVERY knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and THINGS UNDER THE EARTH.

Php 2:11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.


Rev 5:3 And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither UNDER THE EARTH, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.


Rev 5:13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, AND UNDER THE EARTH and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I SAYING , Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.

Soul sleep, aka dirt nap doctrine, is unbiblical, and wrong doctrine.

This begs a few questions about this doctrine:

1) Where did OT people of God go when they died?
2) We also have to ask, if one exists as a conscious disembodied spirit, then what's the point of a resurrection for both the just and unjust?
3) What is the time frame for being present with the Lord? For example, it has to be considered that if there's "soul sleep", time to the person means nothing, so the next conscious moment will be the resurrection, so one is with the Lord. Think of a time machine into the future c.f. Matthew 17:1-8
 

Abaxvahl

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This begs a few questions about this doctrine:

1) Where did OT people of God go when they died?
2) We also have to ask, if one exists as a conscious disembodied spirit, then what's the point of a resurrection for both the just and unjust?
3) What is the time frame for being present with the Lord? For example, it has to be considered that if there's "soul sleep", time to the person means nothing, so the next conscious moment will be the resurrection, so one is with the Lord. Think of a time machine into the future c.f. Matthew 17:1-8

1) Sheol, the dusty place of the dead, the righteous and unrighteous, to wait for the Harrowing.
2) Because man was made to have a body and soul, a unity of matter and spirit. It is unnatural for a human to be deprived of this and moreover existing in a separated state like that is a sign of death (death is in essence just disintegration) which God does not will, and in conquering death God will necessarily conquer this also.
3) I do not know, but it is almost certainly like the angels, who are spirits without bodies that are conscious, exist forever, and act in time. The disembodied Saints also act in time and are currently residing with the angels so whatever reference they have these also have.

That there is a continuation of consciousness is necessary considering that we know from ourselves that we can be aware of things having nothing to do with the body or "lower parts" of the soul, there is then no reason for that "portion of the soul" to stop having awareness of those things which it knows like that.
 
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I'm pretty sure that the term "dirt nap" is just a joke and not a doctrine
Michael, apparently you have not yet heard of teachings of soul sleep, unconsciousness in death, and Even "ceasing to exist/annihilation"? Supposed
Bible students Are Very Serious about these teachings, false as they are...
 
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michaelvpardo

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Michael, apparently you have not yet heard of teachings of soul sleep, unconsciousness in death, and Even "ceasing to exist/annihilation"? Supposed
Bible students Are Very Serious about these teachings, false as they are...
I've heard the terms but couldn't care less about carnal imaginings and such imaginings are common among Bible students seeking understanding through worldly reckoning. We compare spiritual things to spiritual if we have His Spirit. No Bible student will ever arrive at the truth without the Spirit of Christ, or the carnal would never have crucified the Lord of Glory. Salvation is not through Bible study, but through faith in Christ. Bible study is intended, according to the testimony of the Apostle Peter, to guide us into living godly lives, and according to Paul to give us the basis for faith in our Lord. The vast majority of the 1st century gentile church was entirely ignorant of scripture and the Bible didn't exist yet, except as individual scrolls or "books," at least some of which didn't "make the cut", though quoted in epistles.
 
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Curtis

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This begs a few questions about this doctrine:

1) Where did OT people of God go when they died?
2) We also have to ask, if one exists as a conscious disembodied spirit, then what's the point of a resurrection for both the just and unjust?
3) What is the time frame for being present with the Lord? For example, it has to be considered that if there's "soul sleep", time to the person means nothing, so the next conscious moment will be the resurrection, so one is with the Lord. Think of a time machine into the future c.f. Matthew 17:1-8

Well, question one is answered in the OP:

Before Jesus came, there were two compartments in the heart of the earth at that time. One compartment, called Abraham’s bosom, aka paradise, held all of the righteous dead, because no soul could go to heaven until Messiah atoned for sins.


It was separated by a great chasm from the torments compartment that the damned were put in, called Hell.


Jesus tells us about this in Luke 16 starting in verse 19.


When Jesus died His spirit descended into the heart, middle of the earth, and He preached to those spirits held in captivity there, most likely telling them He is Messiah and the Son of God who died for sins.


1Pe 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

1Pe 3:19 By which also he went and PREACHED unto the SPIRITS in PRISON.


Eph 4:8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, HE LED CAPTIVITY CAPTIVE, and gave gifts unto men.

Eph 4:9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also DESCENDED first into the LOWER PARTS OF THE EARTH?

Eph 4:10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)


When He rose from the dead he emptied out paradise and took their spirits with them, which is why many dead people also rose and went into the city, after His resurrection.


Mat 27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,

Mat 27:53 And came out of the graves AFTER HIS RESURRECTION , and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.


Now those who die in Christ go to heaven - He moved paradise from in the earth, to heaven because He atoned for sins.


John the revelator was caught up into heaven, and saw SOULS there.


Rev 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the SOULS of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
 
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Curtis

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Curious, do you agree with me that this is also telling us that we now, even while we live in these terrestrial bodies, that at the same time, we now live in the heavens also, with celestial body appropriate to that place?

Your thoughts?

Much love!

I don’t think a celestial body exists.

IMO, the reason we sit with Christ in heavenly places, which is at the Father’s right hand, is that the groom and bride become one in marriage, which is wily we are called the body of Christ.

Maranatha
 

Pythagorean12

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And the dust returns to the earth as it was, and the spirit returns to God who gave it.
Ecclesiastes 12:7

When it comes to Hell, I thought one of the Revelation chapters told us no one is yet there?
 
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marks

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I don’t think a celestial body exists.

IMO, the reason we sit with Christ in heavenly places, which is at the Father’s right hand, is that the groom and bride become one in marriage, which is wily we are called the body of Christ.

Maranatha
Hid with Christ in God . . .

Much love!
 

Aunty Jane

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It occurs to me that some of the main problems with a lot of these verses is translation and misinterpretation.
e.g....Who is identified as "we"? Who are included in this identification?

Who are the "spirits"? Are "spirits" the same as "souls"?

Does such a place as "hell" really exist? or is the fire symbolic of absolute destruction?
Are "hades", "gehenna" and "the lake of fire" real places?

Are parable real stories?

How much ignorance is on display here?
dunno
 

Desire Of All Nations

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Protestants who subscribe to the immortal soul doctrine reflect the absolute irony of modern Protestantism. Modern Protestants say the "soul sleep" doctrine isn't biblical, but Martin Luther himself disagreed with this position by stating the Bible teaches that the dead are in their graves waiting to be resurrected:

"It is probable, in my opinion, that with very few exceptions indeed, the dead sleep in utter insensibility until the day of judgement...On what authority can it be said that the souls of the dead may not sleep...in the same way that the living pass in profound slumber the interval between their downlying at night and their uprising in the morning?"

"Solomon judges that the dead are asleep, and feel nothing at all. For the dead lie there accounting neither days nor years, but when are awaked
(resurrected) they shall seem to have slept scarce one minute."

"Thus after death, the soul goes to its bedchamber and to its peace, and while it is sleeping, it does not realize that its sleep, and God preserves the awakened soul. God is able to awake Elijah(it is certainly interesting that Martin knew Elijah died and did not go to Heaven, again contradicting the modern Protestant belief that he is still alive in Heaven), Moses, and others...so that they will live. But how can that be? That we do not know; we satisfy ourselves with the example of bodily sleep, and with what God says: it is a sleep, a rest, and a peace."

Martin even went a step further by correctly proclaiming the immortal soul doctrine is among the "endless monstrosities in the Roman dunghill of decretals". In other words, Martin Luther said the immortal soul doctrine is a pagan lie on a pile of other unbiblical lies that were taught by Catholics, and he was 100% correct in that regard.

In light of Martin Luther's own words and the modern Protestant belief that Martin Luther restored the truth of the Bible, Protestants who believe in the immortal soul doctrine are faced with a logical paradox: if Martin Luther indeed restored the truth of the Bible like they believe he did, then the Protestants who subscribe to the immortal soul doctrine have to either accept the fact that they have been deceived or deem Martin Luther a false teacher and deceiver. They cannot have it both ways and say they are against Catholic doctrines while stubbornly clinging to them.
 
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Aunty Jane

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Protestants who subscribe to the immortal soul doctrine reflect the absolute irony of modern Protestantism. Modern Protestants say the "soul sleep" doctrine isn't biblical, but Martin Luther himself disagreed with this position by stating the Bible teaches that the dead are in their graves waiting to be resurrected:

"It is probable, in my opinion, that with very few exceptions indeed, the dead sleep in utter insensibility until the day of judgement...On what authority can it be said that the souls of the dead may not sleep...in the same way that the living pass in profound slumber the interval between their downlying at night and their uprising in the morning?"

"Solomon judges that the dead are asleep, and feel nothing at all. For the dead lie there accounting neither days nor years, but when are awaked
(resurrected) they shall seem to have slept scarce one minute."

"Thus after death, the soul goes to its bedchamber and to its peace, and while it is sleeping, it does not realize that its sleep, and God preserves the awakened soul. God is able to awake Elijah(it is certainly interesting that Martin knew Elijah died and did not go to Heaven, again contradicting the modern Protestant belief that he is still alive in Heaven), Moses, and others...so that they will live. But how can that be? That we do not know; we satisfy ourselves with the example of bodily sleep, and with what God says: it is a sleep, a rest, and a peace."

Martin even went a step further by correctly proclaiming the immortal soul doctrine is among the "endless monstrosities in the Roman dunghill of decretals". In other words, Martin Luther said the immortal soul doctrine is pagan lie on a pile of other unbiblical lies that were taught by Catholics, and he was 100% correct in that regard.

In light of Martin Luther's own words and the modern Protestant belief that Martin Luther restored the truth of the Bible, Protestants who believe in the immortal soul doctrine are faced with a logical paradox: if Martin Luther indeed restored the truth of the Bible like they believe he did, then the Protestants who subscribe to the immortal soul doctrine have to either accept the fact that they have been deceived or deem Martin Luther a false teacher and deceiver. They cannot have it both ways and say they are against Catholic doctrines while stubbornly clinging to them.
Awesome post!! Well stated.
ok


Heretics calling others heretics is nothing new.....
 

Heart2Soul

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It occurs to me that some of the main problems with a lot of these verses is translation and misinterpretation.
e.g....Who is identified as "we"? Who are included in this identification?

Who are the "spirits"? Are "spirits" the same as "souls"?

Does such a place as "hell" really exist? or is the fire symbolic of absolute destruction?
Are "hades", "gehenna" and "the lake of fire" real places?

Are parable real stories?

How much ignorance is on display here?
dunno
And what about scripture that says the flesh returns to dust from which it came and the spirit returns to God who gave it?
Ecclesiastes 12 (KJV)
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
⁵ Also when they shall be afraid of that which is high, and fears shall be in the way, and the almond tree shall flourish, and the grasshopper shall be a burden, and desire shall fail: because man goeth to his long home, and the mourners go about the streets:
⁶ Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern.
Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Oops just noticed someone else posted this verse ..sorry
 
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