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(Refuting) The (Original Sin) Doctrine!!

Discussion in 'Bible Study Forum' started by DoveSpirit05, Dec 26, 2019.

  1. Steve Owen

    Steve Owen Well-Known Member

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    :rolleyes: Read Proverbs 1:8-19, especially taking in to account verse 19. Then read 1 Timothy 6:6-10. 'For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil.....' Or to put it another way, greed is the root from which grow corruption, theft, embezzlement and murder. :p
     
  2. Steve Owen

    Steve Owen Well-Known Member

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    You just make this stuff up as you go along, don't you? Romans 3:10 is quoting Psalms 14:2-3. It is 'the children of men,' all mankind, who have 'turned aside, they have together become corrupt; there is none who does good, no, not one.'

    And who is 'righteous Iver'? Never heard of him!
     
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  3. DoveSpirit05

    DoveSpirit05 Active Member

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    ok if were all sinners and we cant help it then you should have no problem with me breaking into your house at night and stealing all ur jewellery, clothes, tv and all ur valuables and den stealing ur car. were all sinners right!! "none righteous not one" I shouldn't go 2 prison I cant help it!!
     
  4. Steve Owen

    Steve Owen Well-Known Member

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    not being funny but I spoke 2 u b4, ur just giving me opinion!! with no scripture, u need 2 go and study scripture more, history, look up bible studies, commentaries, bible says study 2 show urself approved, 2 timothy 2:15 do u agree wiv dat verse?
     
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  5. GISMYS_7

    GISMYS_7 Well-Known Member

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    All mankind are born with a sin nature no one needs to teach a child to lie, or to take what is not his and be selfish.==Think!
     
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  6. ScottA

    ScottA Well-Known Member

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    No...you can't call "context" and take away the eternal principles of all that is written historically is based on. That would be to give more glory to the subject rather than the object. Matthew 23:17

    The message of those historic events was for us to learn the principles of God. You've missed the point.
     
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  7. ScottA

    ScottA Well-Known Member

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    You are taking the example of children too literally, and missing the point. Indeed, children have something to point to as an example of what we must become; but just as we do not reenter the womb in being born again, we do not become children born of the flesh and of our lineage as akin to Adam.
     
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  8. ScottA

    ScottA Well-Known Member

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    Again, that misses the point. The point is that we all are in need of salvation, because we are born of the lineage of fallen Adam. Thus, we must be born again.
     
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  9. farouk

    farouk Well-Known Member

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    Psalm 51.5: 'In sin did my mother conceive me.' Romans 3.23: 'All have sinned, and come short of the glory of God'.
     
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  10. Stan B

    Stan B Well-Known Member

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    The whole idea of original sin originated with St. Augustine around 400 AD. The idea was subsequently pick up by St. Jerome, wherein he declared that if a baby died before being sprinkled, that child could never enter Heaven.

    This all stems from the church at Rome abandoning Scripture and merging with paganism, where this magic sprinkling idea originated. The Early Church practiced no such nonsense. In the Early Church, the requirements for baptism are recorded in the Church Fathers. If one desired to be baptized, they would first have to take a six month Bible study course, so they would understand what they were doing. Then, at the time of baptism, they would have to give an account of their faith before being immersed.

    I have also read accounts where Roman Catholic priests will go out into the parking lot after the service, and sprinkle all the cars for good luck!! This is all in keeping with the traditional pagan practices of this warped cult.
     
  11. historyb

    historyb Well-Known Member

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    So at @DoveSpirit05 you ignore my post where I told you I am not a Catholic
     
  12. Earburner

    Earburner Well-Known Member

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    It appears that you are mixing and blending your own human understanding into what really happened in the garden of Eden.
    Adam/Eve and all humankind LOST the Gift of Eternal Life!! Gen. 3:22

    Babies are NOT believers in Jesus when they are born! In fact, through no fault of their own, they are born as UNbelievers.
    So then, whose fault was it, that they should be born as UNbelievers, without having the Gift of Eternal life, through the Gift of God's Holy Spirit?
    Ans. Adam/Eve.

    Try understanding it through John 3
    [18] He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

    And also: John 8
    [23] And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world. (Babies also).
    [24] I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins. (Babies also).

    As for becoming as/like a little child, the analogy is that we are to be as trusting towards God for His care and Eternal provision, just as a little child trusts its parents for its physical care and provision.
    That scripture has nothing to do with the eternal state of a baby.

    Now conclude with this:
    John 3:3-8
    Rom. 8:9
     
  13. hermeneutics

    hermeneutics Active Member

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    Not all babies are born sinners,

    1Co 7:14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.

    David knew,
    2Sa 12:22 And he said, While the child was yet alive, I fasted and wept: for I said, Who can tell whether GOD will be gracious to me, that the child may live?
    2Sa 12:23 But now he is dead, wherefore should I fast? can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me.
     
  14. Earburner

    Earburner Well-Known Member

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    1. Rom. 8:9
    2. Rom. 8:9

    1. The Holy Spirit of God cannot and will not enter into any person, baby or adult, until that person confesses with their mouth that Jesus is Lord.
    Until that takes place, the salvation of the Lord cannot be granted. Rom. 10:9
    2. However, children who are born unto a believing spouse, are sanctified in the fact that they shall grow up in "the nurture and admonition of the Lord", unto the knowledge of salvation. Eph. 6:4
     
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  15. hermeneutics

    hermeneutics Active Member

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    There a children that are born to unbelieving parents and those children must grow up and accept God. Then there are children that become grand children of God. After they grow to the age of accountability they will make their decisions.

    God's word says:
    1Co 7:14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.
    They also will have to make their own decisions at the age of accountability.

    The children of Israel are the children of God, the children of Christians are also the children of God.
     
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  16. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member

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    You are relying on your OWN reasoning and NOT The Word of God.

    The definition of sin per God's Word is the "transgression of the law"...

    1 John 3:4
    4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
    KJV


    All born in the flesh are... born into sin! Want to know why? Because of this...

    Gal 3:21-22
    21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
    22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

    KJV

    The ONLY ONE Who was born in the flesh and was TOTALLY WITHOUT SIN was our Lord Jesus Christ, Jesus of Nazareth!

    That is why we ALL... have been concluded under sin, so that only ONE Who has the Power to forgive sin had no sin. Otherwise our Salvation through Jesus Christ would be false, and falseness is what your lack of understanding is preaching.
     
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  17. Earburner

    Earburner Well-Known Member

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    None of you getting the picture!
    Rom. 5[12] Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

    Because Adam and Eve lost the opportunity to possess Eternal life, all and every decsendant of the human race, is 100% void of eternal existence of any kind. KJV- Genesis 3:22-24. Therefore ALL babies born through Adam, inherit DEATH!

    Paul the Apostle stated clearly what the problem is. The problem is the original sin of A&E, of which brought the curse of DEATH upon ALL.
    Jesus came down from above to reverse that curse. Having faith in Him, is the ONLY cure and escape from that fate.
     
  18. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member

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    Oh, I think the Bible picture is clear enough alright. And some of us here do... 'get it'.

    This is what many brethren still don't get...

    1 Cor 15:48-50
    48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
    49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
    50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

    KJV

    That means neither Adam and Eve in their flesh could inherit God's future Kingdom under His Son. Thus it points to the fact that sin had... to enter in, like Paul pointed to in Galatians 3:22.

    Thus Adam and Eve could not have attained immortality of their flesh anyway, for the flesh from the beginning was destined to die. And that again because of Galatians 3:22.
     
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  19. DoveSpirit05

    DoveSpirit05 Active Member

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    Well its ur belief against my belief, after all we live in a democratic society!! we're free 2 believe wat we wanna believe right!! you believe wat u wanna believe and ill believe wat I wanna believe hows that sound?
     
  20. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member

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    No, it's your opinion loosely based on Scripture and men's doctrines, whereas what I said agrees 100% with Bible witnesses.

    Rom 5:12-21
    12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
    13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
    14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of Him That was to come.
    15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
    16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.
    17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
    18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
    19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
    20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
    21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
    KJV


    There was sin from Adam to Moses, and the law then existed, except sin was not yet imputed until the law was given. So what Apostle John defined sin as still holds true, for sin is the transgression of God's law.

    The First Sinner:
    1 John 3:8
    8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil.

    KJV

    The devil was the very first sinner. He sinned in the world that then was, the world prior to Adam and Eve (Ezekiel 28; Isaiah 14). This is another reason our Heavenly Father sent His Son Jesus Christ into this present world, to defeat death and the devil for us (Hebrews 2:14).


    And NO... the United States of America is not... a Democracy. It is a Constitutional Republic. The word democracy is too often slung around today by those ignorant of its original meanings. Today it is more equated with the ideas of Socialism, which is what system most European nations are using today, even though they technically still have Monarchs (like Great Britain).

    What Is a Democracy? [ushistory.org]
     
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