Regarding the Holy Spirit and His gifts I believe...

[Frank Lee]

Ecclesiastes 10:4 KJVS
If the spirit of the ruler rise up against thee, leave not thy place; for yielding pacifieth great offences.

 

[Frank Lee]

I am unsure if you saw what I had wrote, but I felt lead to write it, so Ill bump it.

I find that when I can't let a subject rest, like tongues as a prayer language, there is truth to it. So I am reading this thread. But I realize that no, I do not understand the subject well enough to speak. But I think it is good stuff on both sides.

Is there a main list of scriptures that talk about tongues as a prayer language?

Mayflower I can give you the ones I know. This is a few scriptures I gathered that refer to many facets of the gift, including the question you ask.

Zephaniah 3:9 KJVS
then will I turn to the people a pure language, that they may all call upon the name of the Lord , to serve him with one consent.

Prayer in tongues, in the spirit, in the Holy Ghost is a pure language. One that cannot be corrupted by the natural mind of man.

Job 29:21 — Job 29:23 (NKJV)
“Men listened to me and waited,
And kept silence for my counsel.
After my words they did not speak again,
And my speech settled on them as dew.
They waited for me as for the rain,
And they opened their mouth wide as for the spring rain.

These scriptures in Job are referencing a seeker awaiting the in filling of the Holy Spirit and the gift of speaking in tongues.

Intercessory prayer in the spirit, ie. Tongues is outlined in these scriptures from Job. This call to intercessory prayer is from the Holy Spirit. Relief from the internal pressure will come as the prayer in the spirit, tongues that is,

Job 32:18-20 KJVS
For I am full of matter, the spirit within me constraineth me.
[19] Behold, my belly is as wine which hath no vent; it is ready to burst like new bottles.
[20] I will speak, that I may be refreshed: I will open my lips and answer.

Here in Isaiah the Lord tells us that the stammering lips of the gift of tongues is a rest and a refreshing as also Jude vs 20 tells us. Sadly the Lord speaks to the fact that many will not hear, will not receive what Jesus has provided.

They would not hear...

Isaiah 28:11-12 KJVS
For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.
[12] To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.

Ephesians 6:18 ESV
praying at all times in the Spirit, with all prayer and supplication. To that end, keep alert with all perseverance, making supplication for all the saints,

Prayer in the spirit, in tongues that is, is prayer to God as, we see in first Corinthians.

1 Corinthians 14:2 KJVS
For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him ; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

Paul tells us, quite plainly here that speaking in tongues is speaking to God. Speaking to God is prayer.

Hope these are of benefit to you.

Frank

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Willie, please dab my brow with a cool cloth!

I realize VIJ ignores me but that's OK.

You are wrong Frank... I don’t purposely ignore you but answer posts on my cell phone in between demands of the day. I can’t always answer as I would like to for getting kicked off by my phones slowness and having to sign back on over and over to post one response. I value what you have to say but sometimes feel you are very stern in your belief and what I might say you would not care to read anyways. I would not ignore you on purpose because I also feel like I’m ignored sometimes when I post and the conversation just keeps moving on as if I didn’t say anything. You have passion. I don’t overlook you but see you and what you contribute.

 

[Frank Lee]

You are wrong Frank... I don’t purposely ignore you but answer posts on my cell phone in between demands of the day. I can’t always answer as I would like to for getting kicked off by my phones slowness and having to sign back on over and over to post one response. I value what you have to say but sometimes feel you are very stern in your belief and what I might say you would not care to read anyways. I would not ignore you on purpose because I also feel like I’m ignored sometimes when I post and the conversation just keeps moving on as if I didn’t say anything. You have passion. I don’t overlook you but see you and what you contribute.

My apologies! The non personal cyberspace communications often bring misunderstandings. If I seem stern it's because I have had to fight so hard to maintain my faith. It is in no way a condescending disregard for what you have to share, Forgive me I pray.

After years of having denominational people tell me that what Jesus gave me is from the devil, I sometimes weary and sit down beside Jesus on the well.

Frank

 

[Mayflower]

Mayflower I can give you the ones I know. This is a few scriptures I gathered that refer to many facets of the gift, including the question you ask.

Zephaniah 3:9 KJVS
then will I turn to the people a pure language, that they may all call upon the name of the Lord , to serve him with one consent.

Prayer in tongues, in the spirit, in the Holy Ghost is a pure language. One that cannot be corrupted by the natural mind of man.

Job 29:21 — Job 29:23 (NKJV)
“Men listened to me and waited,
And kept silence for my counsel.
After my words they did not speak again,
And my speech settled on them as dew.
They waited for me as for the rain,
And they opened their mouth wide as for the spring rain.

These scriptures in Job are referencing a seeker awaiting the in filling of the Holy Spirit and the gift of speaking in tongues.

Intercessory prayer in the spirit, ie. Tongues is outlined in these scriptures from Job. This call to intercessory prayer is from the Holy Spirit. Relief from the internal pressure will come as the prayer in the spirit, tongues that is,

Job 32:18-20 KJVS
For I am full of matter, the spirit within me constraineth me.
[19] Behold, my belly is as wine which hath no vent; it is ready to burst like new bottles.
[20] I will speak, that I may be refreshed: I will open my lips and answer.

Here in Isaiah the Lord tells us that the stammering lips of the gift of tongues is a rest and a refreshing as also Jude vs 20 tells us. Sadly the Lord speaks to the fact that many will not hear, will not receive what Jesus has provided.

They would not hear...

Isaiah 28:11-12 KJVS
For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.
[12] To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.

Ephesians 6:18 ESV
praying at all times in the Spirit, with all prayer and supplication. To that end, keep alert with all perseverance, making supplication for all the saints,

Prayer in the spirit, in tongues that is, is prayer to God as, we see in first Corinthians.

1 Corinthians 14:2 KJVS
For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him ; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

Paul tells us, quite plainly here that speaking in tongues is speaking to God. Speaking to God is prayer.

Hope these are of benefit to you.

Frank

Thank you!!!!! I want to read these and pray a bit. In Job 32 you referenced, I know that was Elihu speaking. And I know he was speaking in the spirit, but was that tongues? Or was that just like a word of wisdom from the Holy Spirit.

And this was before the Holy Spirit was given?

 

[bbyrd009]

After I speak the truth given me by the Holy Spirit and you refuse it you are beyond reaching.

lol, imagine how we feel

 

[Mayflower]

okay I understand. I think 29 can be a seeker waiting to be infilled, but Elihu seemed to just be dying to say something after hearing the elders and spoke with Godly wisdom. I feel this way except without the wisdom part a lot.

 

[Dave L]

You need to read the rest.
You'r posting out of context.
You cannot pick and choose a few words.

The coming of the "perfect" in verse 10 refers to the second coming of Christ.
My understanding of the text is that the gifts will continue until Jesus comes.

Notice what Paul says about this:

“so that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ; who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye be unreproveable in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. God is faithful, through whom ye were called into the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.” (1 Corinthians 1:7–9)

Notice what John says about this:

“The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show unto his servants, even the things which must shortly come to pass: and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John;” (Revelation 1:1)

All of the gifts expired, and history confirms this, as John published Revelation.


602. ἀποκάλυψις apŏkalupsis, ap-ok-al´-oop-sis; from 601; disclosure:—appearing, coming, lighten, manifestation, be revealed, revelation.

Strong, J. (2009). A Concise Dictionary of the Words in the Greek Testament and The Hebrew Bible (Vol. 1, p. 14).

used for Revelation by Paul and John

 

[Dave L]

The bolder is where you yourself have “added to” the scripture....that is not what it actually says.
And once again , like other who do not understand ....One type is for the church meetings , which has interpretation ...and one type of tongue is for private use in prayer, worship, intercession, or spiritual warfare.

“He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church. Now I want you all to speak in tongues, but even more to prophesy. He who prophesies is greater than he who speaks in tongues, unless some one interprets, so that the church may be edified.” (1 Corinthians 14:4–5)

Those speaking in tongues were edified. The basis for edification is understanding what was said.

 

[Dave L]

Your interpretation of the Scriptures is as baseless as your comprehension of them. Those rejecting and denying of God's gifts are become self appointed teachers, attempting to instruct those of good hearts that readily accept God's generous gifts.

10After a first and second admonition, have nothing further to do with any one who will not be taught; 11for, as you know, a man of that description has turned aside from the right path and is a sinner self-condemned.

I do not understand your presence here. You refuse our beliefs and deny being denominational yet all your arguments fly in the face of scripture.

You make blanket assertions that are contrary to scripture.

What are you doing here? You neither receive the truth or have any edification to offer. You are only attempting to provoke. You fight against God trampling His word under your denominational feet.
A false cloak of independent standing will not conceal your denominational indoctrination. Somewhere, some time frame, you sat before other denominational
teachers and the ought into their anti-Christian rhetoric and doctrine.


Who did this to you? You try to hide your origins but a denominational elephant's trunk prevents disguise as a sheep. Who did this to you? Your beliefs have been to your personal harm.

According to scripture, God enabled believers to speak to him in a heavenly language. A language unknown except by him and those to whom he gave a gift for interpreting it (1 Corinthians 14:27–28).

Many think the Apostles spoke supernaturally in human languages at Pentecost. And people from different nations naturally understood what they said in their own tongue. But Paul says when a person speaks in tongues, they speak to God and not to men (1 Corinthians 14:2). So on Pentecost, the Apostles spoke to God in a heavenly tongue and devout Jews from every nation overheard them in their own native tongue. So they must have received the gift of interpreting too.

 

[Frank Lee]

okay I understand. I think 29 can be a seeker waiting to be infilled, but Elihu seemed to just be dying to say something after hearing the elders and spoke with Godly wisdom. I feel this way except without the wisdom part a lot.

Scripture, the living word has many facets. Face value and others.

Reference what Paul's says regarding multiple meanings as an example.

1 Corinthians 9:9-10 KJVS
For it is written in the law of Moses, Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen? [10] Or saith he it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written: that he that ploweth should plow in hope; and that he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of his hope.

Paul refers to;

Deuteronomy 25:4 KJVS
Thou shalt not muzzle the ox when he treadeth out the corn .


Another example of hidden meanings of scripture is found in Genesis.

First the skinny cows.

Genesis 41:19 KJVS
And, behold, seven other kine came up after them, poor and very ill favoured and leanfleshed, such as I never saw in all the land of Egypt for badness:

This is a reference to a scripture in the new testament.

2 Timothy 3:7 KJVS
Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Those that study and study the Bible yet are never nourished by it and remain as it were, skinny cows.

Every scripture is a multifaceted jewel able to be used by the Holy Spirit in whatever way He chooses.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

As for Sword. He was suspended from the Site because he was an arrogant nagger...and kept on telling everyone that they should be like him, do what he did...and he judged everyones home life without knowing anyone.
Repeatedly he accused us of not witnessing enough ( how did he know? ) Not praising en...enough...again...how on earth did he know? And also he accused us of not healing people enough.
He must have been clairvoyant...

He was judgement, legalist and arrogant. Hence his suspension.
Your memory of him is very 'rose-coloured' ..... :)

I’ve been considering what you said about ‘rose colored’ glasses concerning sword. Maybe I’ve figured out why I am still bothered by it. sword looked down on us and said he was glad he wasn’t like us. But then in turn I became the one who looked down on sword and said, “I am glad I am not like you.” I can’t speak for his end, By grace. But I’m accountable for mine.

 

[Frank Lee]

Jesus comes for me

A brief testimony of salvation and shortly thereafter baptism in the Holy Spirit.


Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and eat with him, and he with me.
Revelation 3:20 ESV


It was night now and day was done. I'd sat in a tavern most of that Saturday afternoon drinking beer. I never spent much time in taverns but that day I did. It was dark when I started home and I had no idea what was happening to me during that drive. I was unfamiliar with the detailed definition of the word "conviction". Just a word used by lawyers and judges as far as I was concerned. But when it comes right down to it, God I discovered, is the master of conviction. As a matter of fact He's never tried a case and lost. Before that episode of my life was over I would have a far better understanding of that word and of many others.

con·vic·tion
kənˈvikSH(ə)n/Submit
noun

a formal declaration that someone is guilty of a criminal offense, made by the verdict of a jury or the decision of a judge in a court of law

He began His conviction of me through a resurrected conscience that began to painfully recall every bad thing I'd ever done. I began to cry tears of remorse as I drove and the Lord caused me to feel the hurt and regret of those I'd sinned against in my thirty three years of life. I wept all of those miles home having no idea what was going on. I'd felt sorry before for my misdeeds but nothing like this. Later on I saw the pains I'd suffered from the sins of others hurt just as bad. Sin I found, was like a sword with a knife blade for a handle. It wounded the one weilding it as well as those being stricken. A great mystery enveloped me and I felt that everything familiar was slipping away at high speed. Indeed it was.

During the next days and weeks the painful recall of past sins continued. It was a phenomenon I'd never experienced. I've read of Christian conversions that amounted to shaking a preacher's hand and signing a name in the church membership ledger. Perhaps it's that simple for some. The Lord had nothing quite so easy in store for me. To whom much is given much is required. I thought I was losing my sanity because all the things I'd always done I suddenly didn't want to do any more. When you search around for familiar things and all seems foreign it rattles your entire existence.

During my commutes to work I'd often have to pull over and park while I wept and repented. I arrived at my place of work red eyed from crying on more than one morning. Fortunately no one asked me what was the matter because I would not have been able to explain any of what was happening. I had no clue what repenting was but I was sure doing it. Somewhere in my past I must have learned that God was the one you had to turn to. The few times I attended church as a young teen were a mystery to me. Well meaning but not led by the Holy Spirit, Sunday school teachers tried to drag me down to the altar. They didn't explain what for. They never told me about repentance, Jesus' sacrifice, His blood, His cross. Just go sign the book. It wasn't God's time for me. I had much self inflicted pain to yet endure.

My mother told me that one day that when I was only ten or twelve she looked through the window and saw two men talking to me as I played in the yard. Then she saw the three of us all kneeling. These neighborhood missionarys were praying with me for my salvation. I had no memory of that experience at all, but God had never forgotten and He came to remind me of that long ago prayer made when I was yet a child. I've wondered since that time who those faithful witnesses were but only Jesus knows.

During that same strange convicting period of time another big thing was happening. Many of the familiar things I liked to do began to suddenly seem peculiar and alien. Even wrong. Very strange. I no longer wanted to drink beer or watch rough and violent television programs or tell off color jokes. All those things and more were suddenly not part of my life. It was as if I'd awakened into a brand new life. As if I'd been born again. Not ever really having attended church it was all foreign and I was surprised that God was interested in me. I'd never thought highly of myself and if there was a perfect God somewhere He'd think even less of me or not at all.

I'd never had much of a sense of self worth and spent lots of time trying to prove that I was as good as everyone else. But I soon learned that He loved me so much that He'd sent His only son to rescue me from myself. The blood of Jesus Christ had covered my sins and I no longer had to be ashamed. I had indeed been born again and become a new creation in Christ. Jesus came to me just as He had promised in the 34th chapter of Ezekiel.

Ezekiel 34:11-12 KJVS
For thus saith the Lord God ; Behold, I, even I, will both search my sheep, and seek them out.
[12] As a shepherd seeketh out his flock in the day that he is among his sheep that are scattered; so will I seek out my sheep, and will deliver them out of all places where they have been scattered in the cloudy and dark day.

I'm frequently amazed when I hear a person give the exact date when they came to be a believer in Jesus Christ. I guess it's that way for some people. For me it was an indefinite time sometime in the early fall of 1977, maybe October. The extreme heaviness I carried was more than a burden. I went out to pray one night in a small greenhouse that I'd built and it was a bright moonlit night in early spring. Sitting there I poured out my complaint to the Lord. With tears I told Him how bad I felt and that I needed His help, His strength and love. For Him to remove this blanket of heaviness that seemed to cover me.

Trust in him at all times, O people; pour out your heart before him; God is a refuge for us. Selah
Psalms 62:8 ESV

As I cried out to the living God I realized after awhile that I was slowly nodding my head up and down in a yes motion. All the while I began to say over and over "you felt these same things, you felt these same things". Though I'd heard nothing somehow the spirit of God let me know that Jesus had felt exactly as I did. He'd experienced the same battles, the same heaviness, the same emotions of sadness and perplexity as I. It was a wonderful thing to know that you had this in common with the savior! We see through a glass darkly but sometimes He cleans off a spot and we get a new revelation. He lets us have a look in.

As I sat there in that moonlit greenhouse the Lord spoke a thing to me, He said "River bottom". I recoiled at the very thought. My fear of darkness wanted no part of the dark river bottom. Even so I found myself rising up and starting to walk down the Ridge to the river bottom far below our home. I felt as I walked an invisible wind like a force of fear coming at me from different directions. I knew nothing of spirits of fear but this was one in action. In the river bottom I began to rebuke it in Jesus' name and pleading the blood of Jesus to cover me. I would turn directly toward that fear and walk toward it while rebuking it in the savior's name. It would stop and I would stand still. If I felt or sensed or discerned it at all I would once more speak in jesus' name and wall toward it until it stopped.

Fears of the the dark, fears of everything had haunted and pursued me since was very small. Members of my family m had been involved with the occult and the curse of those dark practices had fallen upon me.

As I stood and fought it with Jesus name and word It finally stopped altogether and so I walked back up the dark wooded trail to a cleared place far above the river.

Matthew 11:12 KJVS
And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.

It was such a beautiful night with a big moon shining across the wooded mountains. God in His kindness had chosen a full moon night to deliver me from fear of the dark. How kind and gentle the savior is! Looking out over the moonlit trees in the river bottom below me and the mountains beyond, God spoke in my spirit and said "son you have nothing to fear. This is all mine and it's all yours". Jesus had worked a real deliverance in me. I didn't have to fear the dark or the devil ever again. There gave been many fierce battles but as I let the spirit of the Lord do the fighting I was partaker in His victory.

There were other areas in my life that needed fixing, things I had no idea what or how to pray about. Life does a lot of damage to earth's inhabitants. One morning before work Martha and I were watching a Christian religious program where Shirley Boone, the singer Pat Boone's wife, was a guest giving her testimony. She described an incident where she was in stress over her marriage and went to her room to pray. There she began to pray and sometime later glanced at the clock and realized that she had been praying in a language she didn't at all know and had been doing so for twenty minutes.

Acts 2:3-4 KJVS
And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
[4] And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

Continued below..

 

[Frank Lee]

Continued from above...

I wondered at this and had never heard of such things. Having escaped the tradiations and teachings of man made denominations I found God's word had not changed. I was so ignorant of any of God's ways I considered that God did this thing for her since she was the wife of a celebrity. I didn't know then that God was no respecter of persons. I came home from work early that day and was working in the loft of a room I was adding on.

I went into prayers and weeping and was thinking about Shirley Boone's testimony. As I did a strong thought arose within me. "If God did that for her maybe He'd do that for you too". It was the Holy Spirit. Since I'd never been bold enough to think that on my own. In faith I began to make up words, jibberish, baby talk and speak them out. I had no idea what I was seeking but God had me by the hand. He'd promised If we asked for a fish we would not receive a snake. His metaphor of a snake is not without significance.

In a minute I realized that I no longer had to make up words since this new language of prayer from God's Holy Spirit was pouring from me as a stream of living water. No one had yet told me that God had put a moratorium on His gifts and callings. Bypassing the traditions and denials of man's creation - denominational religions - was a huge blessing. God chooses the foolish things of the world to confound the wise.

John 7:38 KJVS
He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

Mark 16:17 KJVS
And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

I didn't tell Martha about the experience since I had no idea what to say. But a few weeks later we began to attend the Christian Center Church that was familiar with the biblical gifts that I had experienced and there Martha too was baptized in the Holy Spirit and was given the same evidentisl gift. That experience was more than forty years ago and without the power of the Holy Spirit in our lives we would never have been able to have overcome all that life has sent against us. It is impossible to describe the benefits of the indwelling Holy Spirit. Spiritual power, wisdom, discernment and ten thousand other Godly gifts are supplied by the Spirit of God.

All I can do is relate what God did in me. I'm a reporter... Not an ex plainer. The Scriptures made all plain to me afterwards.

Acts 4:20 KJVS
For we cannot but speak the things which we have seen and heard.

These were the first steps that the Lord took in beginning to transform my life to be pleasing to Him.

 

[Mayflower]

Scripture, the living word has many facets. Face value and others.

Reference what Paul's says regarding multiple meanings as an example.

1 Corinthians 9:9-10 KJVS
For it is written in the law of Moses, Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen? [10] Or saith he it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written: that he that ploweth should plow in hope; and that he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of his hope.

Paul refers to;

Deuteronomy 25:4 KJVS
Thou shalt not muzzle the ox when he treadeth out the corn .


Another example of hidden meanings of scripture is found in Genesis.

First the skinny cows.

Genesis 41:19 KJVS
And, behold, seven other kine came up after them, poor and very ill favoured and leanfleshed, such as I never saw in all the land of Egypt for badness:

This is a reference to a scripture in the new testament.

2 Timothy 3:7 KJVS
Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Those that study and study the Bible yet are never nourished by it and remain as it were, skinny cows.

Every scripture is a multifaceted jewel able to be used by the Holy Spirit in whatever way He chooses.

It is curious why Elihu would say that in vs 29 instead of just speaking. I do see hidden meanings in many verses. Especially like in Isaiah speaking prophetic scriptures...even Jesus spoke in parables so the people could "see without hearing." Something like that. A baby fell asleep on me and I am babysitting, so I am sort of studying and looking things up. Why is it this way? Is it so we will ask for understanding as the disciples did?

Just questions for myself really to not derail the thread. But perhaps when the Holy Spirit came then those parables and metaphors Christ used could make sense by His discernment...and tongues as a prayer language, perhaps it is the same way.

 

[Triumph1300]

Great testimony, Frank.
God bless you!

 

[Helen]

Maybe I’ve figured out why I am still bothered by it. sword looked down on us and said he was glad he wasn’t like us. But then in turn I became the one who looked down on sword and said, “I am glad I am not like you.” I can’t speak for his end, By grace. But I’m accountable for mine.

Maybe I'd "feel badly" about Sword if I hadn't spent endless time with him communicating in the INBOX.

I asked him so many times to tone down his nagging, and also in 'putting other people down'...for what HE felt they were not doing and more so NOT doing!! I tried with him...I pointed out many times that there is NO WAY that he could condemn people for not praying enough...or even witnessing enough ( who goes around bragging about how long the pray or how much they witness! ?)

I told him over and over that if he spoke/wrote in a gentler tone , then maybe people would listen to him...
..but no, he'd always write back about how many people he had healed and why aren't the rest of us like him...

I tried....honestly...

 

[Frank Lee]

God told me "I don't call my people to do easy things. I call them to do hard things. Then those that see them doing difficult things with joy will know that something is being done beyond the ability of man".

Without the baptism of the Holy Spirit and the accompanying power He brings we would be forced to fight spiritual battles in the flesh just like the denominations try and do. This is not possible. What's flesh is flesh and what's spirit is spirit.

The gift of tongues is just a, part of what the Holy Spirit brings into our lives after we yield unto Him. Those resisting Him do so to their own detriment, to the detriment fox their family and to the entire kingdom of God.

Acts 1:8 KJVS
But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

Power after, not before. The disciples were, already believers. They were like denominational believers. Powerless, afraid. Hiding from the religious police. Jumping at every noise.

But then at Pentecost they receiver the power, the fire, the gifts, the indwelling Holy Spirit. The once fearful discioles now were able to stand in front of the religious council and speak with God's anointing of the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Until believers yield their pride and fear to God and submit themselves to His will they will never prosper spiritually.

Fear of receiving something bad keeps denominational believers from asking God, Jesus, to baptize them in His Holy Spirit. It is not by chance that Jesus used the word serpent in this scripture.

Luke 11:11-13 KJVS
If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent? [12] Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion?
[13] If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

He knew that in the future fear of the freely given Holy Spirit would be sent into denominations by Satan and that His gift would be spoken against and resisted. Even to threescore point of being called demonic.

Truly God is gracious beyond our comprehension by not moving in wrath against those labeling His gifts as evil!

Being born of the spirit the disciples became believers. Being filled with the spirit they became witnesses of the living God and His son of promise, Jesus the Christ.

 

[Episkopos]

Maybe I'd "feel badly" about Sword if I hadn't spent endless time with him communicating in the INBOX.

I asked him so many times to tone down his nagging, and also in 'putting other people down'...for what HE felt they were not doing and more so NOT doing!! I tried with him...I pointed out many times that there is NO WAY that he could condemn people for not praying enough...or even witnessing enough ( who goes around bragging about how long the pray or how much they witness! ?)

I told him over and over that if he spoke/wrote in a gentler tone , then maybe people would listen to him...
..but no, he'd always write back about how many people he had healed and why aren't the rest of us like him...

I tried....honestly...

That sounds like someone I know...I mean how many impossible to talk to people are there...oops...never mind.

 

[Frank Lee]

Regarding this sword person I'm sorry for him. He is indeed to be pitied. I've seen similar cases.

I attended church with a brother that was a prophet and who spoke a wonderful revelation to me that confirmed something that only God knew.

Later he fell away, ended up in prison and was killed there by an inmate. I'm saddened every time I think of him.

What we are involved in is literally life and death. I find it hard ever to be flip about the things of God. I've seen more than one person devoured by Satan.

A Jewish coworker who constantly railed against God committed suicide. Al Risser was devoured by Satan.

A man that worked for my dad was shot to death in an altercation. I never heard him mention God at all.

My fifteen year old friend Dale Stone was shot to death when family members got into a fight. I still weep over him after 60 years.

My friend Buddy drank himself into an early grave.

My hard drinking, hard living uncle Lester drove himself to an early grave.

What does this have to do with the Holy Spirit baptism and the accompanying gifts? Everything. For by means of the power of the Holy Spirit we are made witnesses unto Jesus and can see souls and lives saved from the devourer.

I say not these things to distress any but as a reminder of the battle we are in.