You still don’t get our stance.
yeah Actually I do
The natural man will never come to God in their fallen state.
Your right, because they can't. Thats why God comes to them, and sends us out to them. So he can draw them to himself.
The gift of eternal life is not offered, as if He extends it for them to grasp. The gift of eternal is given to the dead sinner.
Then the words whoever believe in him are meaningless. The words call out to him are meaningless. The words chose this day who you will follow are meaningless. The words he who believes is not condemned is meaningless. The words the law is a tutor to draw us to christ is meaningless. It can not draw anyone, Because no one could follow where it led.
Sorry bro. To much which makes no sense.
There is a line “here”. The lost person is to the left of “here” and God is on the right. In your schema, God comes up to “here”, but never crosses over, as it violates their free will if He does. He holds the gift out and it’s up to the dead sinner to reach out and take the gift of eternal life. If he reaches out and accepts it, he is saved and given eternal life. If not, God’s hands are clean, as He at least offered to save them.
The problem with that scenario is you have a dead person reaching out for the gift of eternal life before they are given eternal life. The lost person is dead in sins and can not reach out for God’s gift of eternal life. It would be like going to a morgue and holding out a gift for a corpse to reach out and take hold of.
well then I guess the tax collector on his knees is a fabrication and not a real story
Saul being knocked off his horse. and Jesus calling out to him never happened, Because saul was dead.
Peter and the other 11 never followed God when Jesus called out to them, because he was dead.
Abraham, when God told him to leave his family never left. Because he was dead. and culd not make his decision. Especially since God did not tell him to much later he was declared righteous (justified) BECAUSE of his faith
Also, in their lost state, they hate God. They are hostile towards God. They are at enmity(an ill-will towards) with God. Plus, the lost person thinks the preaching of the cross is foolishness. They can not accept the things of the Spirit, as they deem it foolish. They also cannot understand them, as they are spiritually appraised.
Yep that was me to. Yet when God started drawing me, I slowly changed my perspective. I did not just do as many and say no God. I was actually interested, as many people like me were. and as peter and the 11 when they gave up everything they had and walked with Jesus. Something caught their attention.
Saul loved God also. He did not understand his situation because he misunderstood the purpose of the law. But he loved God. as do catholics. I know they do. My neighbors has a deep love for God. She is just been tricked into the false religious system of her church.
we see things differently bro.
That is why regeneration logically precedes faith, but I believe they happen simultaneously. And when He quickens them, they are gifted faith & repentance(all this happens together), they exercise them and are saved. The gift of eternal life is not offered, it’s given.
Impossible
1. Regeneration can not occur UNTIL the penalty of sin is removed.
2. The process of removing the penalty of sin from the sinner and declaring them innocent or "righteous" is called justification
3. The bible says over and o ver, we are justified by faith
hence according to scripture
1. God draws people to himself
2. Some, Like peter. come to realize the truth of the gospel. Others like Judas were curious about what Jesus offered. But never believed in him, thats when Jesus failed to meet his expectations, he walked away (as many of those who come to our churches, end up after walking away in unbelief. because they were never of us.
3. When one truly repents as a result of the work of God in their life. And come to faith, they call out to God to save them, Because they have come to the point in there thinking that they are sinners beyond hope and require a savior
4. By grace through faith, that dead sinner is justified. declaired righteous, Having had what was contrary to them, was against them, and cursed them nailed to the cross
5. As a justified sinner, the person who was dead in trespasses and sin is now made alive in Christ. as they were given the right to become Gods children through faith, Have been given eternal life. The seal of the spirit. and every good gift under heaven. including the security of knowing, What God has done, NO ONE can take away (no one includes ourselves)
this is the biblical process of how a sinner is drawn and through grace comes to faith, and by faith the sinner is justified, and made alive in Christ