Reincarnation of Elijah

[101G]

christian understand something, the Lord Jesus and John the Baptist is the two Witness, symbolized in Revelation 11. the symbolism comes from Moses and Elijah, not Moses and Elijah.

moses and elijah are dead, John and the Lord Jesus are the only two men who was "Spiritually Alive" at that time, both was born alive unto God, with the Spirit. and being alive unto God, they can witness, for dead men cannot witness.

PICJAG.

 

[friend of]

Now why would the Disciples go and say a thing like that? Didn't they get the memo? Did Jesus fail in His teachings?

Where did they get that idea? From the OT? Where?

Did you catch that? Now Jesus is asking His Disciples who THEY think He is the Reincarnation of.

No, they were asked who they, and others, thought Jesus was. "Some say" is the key phrase here. Further, why would they think he was reincarnation of John the baptist when they lived side by side during that period of time? Doesn't add up.

Good answer Peter!

Now we know that Jesus is NOT the Reincarnation of some previous Character.

We can certainly agree there.

 

[friend of]

christian understand something, the Lord Jesus and John the Baptist is the two Witness, symbolized in Revelation 11. the symbolism comes from Moses and Elijah, not Moses and Elijah.

That would put John on equal footing with Christ. So that's a no from me.

 

[friend of]

moses amd elijah are dead,

Actually, Elijah was translated and didn't see death. That's why he and Enoch are the likely candidates to be the Two Witnesses/Lamp Stands.

 

[101G]

That would put John on equal footing with Christ. So that's a no from me.

equal footing HOW? in witness? both was sent from GOD, not sent by God but "FROM".

a witness is a martyr

Actually, Elijah was translated and didn't see death. That's why he and Enoch are the likely candidates to be the Two Witnesses/Lamp Stands.

ERROR, Hebrews 11:5 "By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.
Hebrews 11:6 "But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
Hebrews 11:7 "By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.
Hebrews 11:8 "By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.
Hebrews 11:9 "By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:
Hebrews 11:10 "For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.
Hebrews 11:11 "Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised.
Hebrews 11:12 "Therefore sprang there even of one, and him as good as dead, so many as the stars of the sky in multitude, and as the sand which is by the sea shore innumerable.
Hebrews 11:13 "These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

"Elijah was translated", translate only means "MOVED" from one part of the planet to another, and this was not the first time Elijah was translated/moved and was not found as was with Enoch, as Hebrews clearly said "DIED". but this is nothing new, it happen in the NT as well.

PICJAG.

 

[Base12]

Memory of when Christ came before? Err... How did Elijah recognize Jesus in his life, exactly?

If Elijah was in Heaven, and was sent down again to become John, some of the memories may have remained in order to fulfill his role. If John comes back as Elijah again in the future, then he will have all kinds of knowledge to preach about.

Look at this verse...

Matthew 11:11
"Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he"

It's almost as if Jesus is saying that John the Baptist is not in Heaven because John will be Reincarnated as Elijah again.

Also, think the story of Lazarus and the rich man. The rich man was in torments (hell) according to you, the womb. That tale says nothing of reincarnation, for instance.

Torments most likely refers to the Hell (Hades) we understand as the place *before* the Lake of Fire. However, that Hell is thrown into the Lake of Fire...

Revelation 20:14
"And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death"

As a side note, Hades has a sister named Tophet. We can address that later if you want.

One more thing...

Luke 16:25
"But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented"

It's very subtle, but it's there. The word 'likewise' indicates that there will be an EQUAL balance between the two lives. In other words, the Rich Man will come back and live a life similar to Lazarus.

How can there be a 'likewise' if the Rich Man 'burns forever'. That would be a contradiction.

Here is a mind blower..

What if the Rich Man and Lazarus were the same person that lived those two very different lives?

Thinkaboudit.

 

[friend of]

It's almost as if Jesus is saying that John the Baptist is not in Heaven because John will be Reincarnated as Elijah again.

To me that passage is speaking about Glorification. All glorified saints will be greater than John sans his eventual glorification.

What if the Rich Man and Lazarus were the same person that lived those two very different lives?

And this is where you veer from orthodoxy. I'm not going down that rabbit hole. 2 Timothy 2:23

 

[Base12]

And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: (Heb 9:28)

..."Once to die" means "once to die"

Thanks for bringing this up Enoch111. Let's take a closer look at that verse...

Hebrews 9:27
"And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment"

What the Church is hoping to deceive folks into believing is that the verse says something like...

"Everyone has to die and it's only one time."

If this were True, then many verses in the Bible would be in contradiction.

One example would be verses about the Rapture. Millions of Christians look forward to the day they will not taste of death and be with the LORD in the air...

1 Thessalonians 4:17
"Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord"

Too bad that's not going to happen... unless of course Hebrews 9:27 doesn't mean what they're telling us it means.

What about Enoch and Elijah? They never died. Did God lie again?

Genesis 5:24
"And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him"

Perhaps Enoch will Reincarnate... oops, I mean magically appear in a flesh body one day as one of the Two Witnesses.

Since Christians are taught that Reincarnation is not Biblical, Pastors must make up silly excuses like...

"The Two Witnesses aren't *really* the return of two famous Bible characters... they are merely 'Crisis Actors' playing the part". "They are Role Playing". "It's all just a LARP because Reincarnation...".

What about Lazarus who rose from the dead?

John 11:14
"Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead"

Die once? Nope, not for Lazarus.

And the Valley of Dry Bones?

Ezekiel 37:10
"So I prophesied as he commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they lived, and stood up upon their feet, an exceeding great army"

So many stories of the dead rising again, only to die later.

And let's not forget the most condemning verses contradicting the 'Die Once' deception...

Revelation 2:11
"He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death"

'Die once' and 'die twice' is an obvious contradiction no matter how One tries to spin it.

There are several verses that mention a Second Death, thus there are no problems with 'translation errors'.

Obviously Hebrews 9:27 has been grossly misinterpreted by those that try and use it to debunk Reincarnation.

Now if we go outside of Scripture and actually look for evidence, we find that there are thousands upon thousands of very well documented cases of children remembering past lives.

What does the average Christian say? THEY ARE ALL DEBIL POSSESSED!!!

Is this True? Where are the verses in the Bible of Children remembering past lives and how it's all "Debil Possesion"?

Let's clear this up once and for all...

All Hebrews 9:27 is teaching is that for every death, there is a judgement. That's it.

One Death = One Judgement... simple.

In other words, One cannot live a life of 'Sex, Drugs and Rock & Roll' and escape judgement each time. They will reap what they sow in the next life. All is fair. All is just.

God Truly is Love and will redeem everyone in the end.

:)

 

[Heart2Soul]

Speaking of John, let's apply Critical Thinking to this verse...

Luke 1:41
"And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost"

and...

Luke 1:44
"For, lo, as soon as the voice of thy salutation sounded in mine ears, the babe leaped in my womb for joy"

Could it be that John knew something ahead of time? How? A previous life? Where did the knowledge or memory come from?

Spiritual discernment?

 

[Base12]

And this is where you veer from orthodoxy.

Are you sure?

• Hagar represents Earthly Jerusalem (Mystery Babylon).
• Sarah represents Heavenly Jerusalem (New Jerusalem).

God saves Mystery Babylon in the end and she becomes New Jerusalem. In other words, Mystery Babylon and New Jerusalem are the same Woman. The only difference is before and after the Resurrection.

Yet Hagar and Sarah lived at the same time.

I agree It's a very advanced concept, but it's right there in the Bible for all to see.

 

[friend of]

Spiritual discernment?

I think that's all there really is to it. No need for quasi-spiritual embellishment.

 

[friend of]

are you an amillenialist @Base12

 

[Base12]

Spiritual discernment?

Here is another way John could have known ahead of time what was happening...

Ephesians 4:9
"Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?"

They say 'Jesus went to Hell'. OK, what is Hell or 'the Lower Parts of the Earth'?

Remember?

Jesus went into the Wombs of the Mothers.

Why?

Ephesians 4:11
"And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers"

Jesus went to the Wombs to give gifts!

Like this...

Jeremiah 1:5
"Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations"

The Womb is where folks are ordained to be Prophets, Apostles, Evangelists, Pastors and Teachers.

In other words, it happens before they are born.

Again, like this...

1 Peter 3:19
"By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison"

Jesus is preparing those that are about to be Reincarnated.

When did they have their previous lives?

1 Peter 3:20
"Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water"

They were in Hell... aka... the Womb, about to be given another chance.

;)

 

[friend of]

The lower parts of earth is just referring to the womb. Not hell.

 

[Base12]

are you an amillenialist @Base12

Not sure what I am... lol.

 

[Heart2Soul]

Here is another way John could have known ahead of time what was happening...

Ephesians 4:9
"Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?"

They say 'Jesus went to Hell'. OK, what is Hell or 'the Lower Parts of the Earth'?

Remember?

Jesus went into the Wombs of the Mothers.

Why?

Ephesians 4:11
"And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers"

Jesus went to the Wombs to give gifts!

Like this...

Jeremiah 1:5
"Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations"

The Womb is where folks are ordained to be Prophets, Apostles, Evangelists, Pastors and Teachers.

In other words, it happens before they are born.

Again, like this...

1 Peter 3:19
"By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison"

Jesus is preparing those that are about to be Reincarnated.

When did they have their previous lives?

1 Peter 3:20
"Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water"

They were in Hell... aka... the Womb, about to be given another chance.

;)

Is there more than one Hebrew/Greek word that means hell? Because I believe there would have to be if we are to stay within context on some scriptures that mention hell.

 

[DNB]

No and no.

LUKE 1
13 But the angel said unto him, Fear not, Zacharias: for thy prayer is heard; and thy wife Elisabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John.
14 And thou shalt have joy and gladness; and many shall rejoice at his birth.
15 For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.
16 And many of the children of Israel shall he turn to the Lord their God.
17 And he shall go before Him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.

John came in the spirit and power of Elijah, but was definitely not a reincarnation. If you recall, John was beheaded soon after he began his ministry, but Elijah appeared to Jesus towards the close of His ministry. And Elijah must come to earth in the future, when the Antichrist is in control (Revelation 11).

Your points are sort of interesting, but I don't think a confutation.
Yes, in my opinion, your first sentence is entirely true.

But as far as the rest goes, if you're predicating that because John died prior to the time of the transfiguration, then Elijah cannot be John. There is no logical trajectory for this, as Moses clearly died, and yet appeared alongside Elijah also. As Samuel clearly died, but appeared to the Witch of Endor alive. Meaning, death does not preclude the option to return to the living on earth, for a momentary purpose. Regardless of the time frame in between the point of death, and the re-appearance. And, just for the record, you're entirely jumping to conclusions claiming that Elijah is one of the two witness in the eschatological period. That's completely your speculation, not Biblical.
But, for the former points, I say this just for argument's sake, that maybe you can find a better refutation.

Because, I personally think that the OP is patently ridiculous, and Base12 absolutely scares me at times with the insane notions that he comes up with, as are readily seen within this thread.

 

[Base12]

The lower parts of earth is just referring to the womb. Not hell.

Have you ever heard of Hestia or Vesta? They are the same Goddess of the Hearth.

They are known as the Eternal Fire. They are in the Bible.

Check this out...

Jude 1:7
"Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire"

Hestia/Vesta are also called Tophet...

Tophet is of course the Lake of Fire...

Isaiah 30:33
"For Tophet is ordained of old; yea, for the king it is prepared; he hath made it deep and large: the pile thereof is fire and much wood; the breath of the LORD, like a stream of brimstone, doth kindle it"

Again, Tophet is Vesta the Hearth...

Isaiah 30:33 (JPS Tanakh 1917)
"For a hearth is ordered of old; Yea, for the king it is prepared, Deep and large; The pile thereof is fire and much wood; The breath of the LORD, like a stream of brimstone, doth kindle it"

Remember, Hestia/Vesta is the sister of Hades, so it's all Biblical.

Do you know what Vesta looks like?

"The myths depicting Vesta and her priestesses were few, and were limited to tales of miraculous impregnation by a phallus appearing in the flames of the hearth—the manifestation of the goddess"

Vesta (mythology) - Wikipedia

Do you understand?

The Lake of Fire is a picture of the Moment of Conception. It's where Reincarnation takes place!

Remember, the Lake of Fire comes from Moloch. 'Seed' goes into Moloch...

Leviticus 20:3
"And I will set my face against that man, and will cut him off from among his people; because he hath given of his seed unto Molech, to defile my sanctuary, and to profane my holy name"

Moloch is simply another representation of the Golden Calf or Divine Feminine...

Hathor/Hagar.

They both represent the Womb of Reincarnation...

 

[Base12]

Is there more than one Hebrew/Greek word that means hell? Because I believe there would have to be if we are to stay within context on some scriptures that mention hell.

Just off the top of my head...

• Hades
• Sheol
• Tartarus
• Gehenna

Did I get them all?

 

[friend of]

Have you ever heard of Hestia or Vesta? They are the same Goddess of the Hearth.

I'm so confused rn