Religion! Who Needs It? Or "religious Tyranny

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RichardBurger

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"Religion! Who needs it?" or "Religious Tyranny:"

If you can see it, all the persecutions of true Christians has come from the religious. In this writing I am going to point out what I see in religions.

James 1:27 (NKJ)
27 Pure and undefiled religion before God and the Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their trouble, and to keep oneself unspotted from the world.

The above verse tells us what true religion is. But religions as we know them today do not fit into the above definition. It would seem that looking after the orphans and widows in their trouble is an after thought of most religions. Nor is there anyone that can keep him/her self unspotted from the world.

Even in the days of the Tower of Babble men made up religions based on their imaginations.

When Constantine, a man who knew many false gods of the world's religions, organized the Christian church into a physical Church, and a state sanctioned church, he set it up like all of the other religions of the times. He was influenced by the Pagan Roman religions as well as the Jewish religion.

It was not long after Constantine made the Christian Religion a state religion that the leaders of the state sanctioned church went from being persecuted, by others, to persecuting all those that did not willingly believe, and submit, to the RCC doctrines.

For well over a thousand years, the Roman Catholic Church hunted down all that disagreed with them, called them "heretics" and had them killed by the secular rulers. I believe that some of these "heretics" were children of God who believed in Jesus but refused the doctrines advocated by the RCC but I can‘t prove it.

But the Roman Catholic Church was not alone. The protestant Churches that broke away persecuted those with other beliefs as well, and some also had people burned at the stake. Think about Calvin and his influence in the city of Geneva. His policy was not tolerant of the beliefs of others. Many people with different ideas, including Catholics, were put to death between 1542 and 1564. It is a fact that even on Christian forums there are those that are not tolerant of others that do not share their beliefs.

Think about it, all through history religions have caused wars, suffering, and slavery. Even today we have a religion that causes some to kill for it. It is also true that many, on forums, practice character assassination and harassment towards those who do not believe the same as they do. It is the different doctrines, rituals, ceremonies, and the ideas on living life, that men have in religion that separate men today. In every nation where religion has controlled, or controls, the secular government there has been oppression and murder in the name of religion. The framers of the USA Constitution took this into consideration when they separated, by law, religion from the secular government.

It should be noticed that all persecution of the Children of God has come from the religious sector. It was the religious leaders (Pharisees) that persecuted Jesus. It was religious Jews that stoned Stephen to death (Acts 7) and tried to kill Paul (Acts 21).

Today there are religious people trying to place people under religious governments. The problem is under whose interpretation of religion are we to live.

Religion is what man does for the god they have created in their own mind. However, the gospel of Jesus Christ is not a religion. It is not about what man does for God but is about what God has done for man. It is God making a way for each, and everyone, of us to come back to Him and have a personal relationship with Him even though they are still sinful. God walked with man in the garden and wants to walk with man today. It is this relationship that God is interested in, not rituals and ceremonies that men do to look so religious.

But most do not want a close, honest, personal, relationship with God in their hearts. They prefer to have a relationship with an impersonal religion. Why, because they do not have to be honest with it. They can hide their deeds and thoughts.

John 3:19-20 (NKJ)
19 "And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20 "For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed.

Jesus is the light and everyone that comes to Him in a personal relationship must expose his or her deeds and thoughts to Him. Anyone can participate in an organized religion. Organized religion cannot see into the heart.

Even the Bible says that religion is not what we think it is:

Col 2:20-23 (NKJ)
20 Therefore, if you died with Christ from the basic principles of the world, why, as though living in the world, do you subject yourselves to regulations--
21 "Do not touch, do not taste, do not handle,"
22 which all concern things which perish with the using-- according to the commandments and doctrines of men?
23 These things indeed have an appearance of wisdom in self-imposed religion, false humility, and neglect of the body, but are of no value against the indulgence of the flesh.

2 Cor 11:13-15 (NKJ)
13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into apostles of Christ.
14 And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light.
15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works. (NKJ)

Satan's goal is not to have you involved in overt sin and iniquity. Satan's goal is to have you appear righteous on the outside but spiritually dead on the inside. He wants you to be religious, but lost, just as the scribes and Pharisees (Matt 23:25-28)

Paul, a Jew among Jews, knowledgeable in the Jewish traditions and laws in religion, gave them all up and counted them as rubbish in order to gain Christ. He said nothing about religion because that is what he had given up.

Phil 3:8 (NKJ)
8 Yet indeed I also count all things loss for the excellence of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them as rubbish, that I may gain Christ

Copyright 1999 by Richard Burger
 

Selene

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It isn't religion that kills. Man is the one who kills. Joseph Stalin was an atheist, and he murdered millions of people. Mao Zedong and Pol Pot were also atheists, and these people killed by the millions. These people did not believe in God, but they killed millions. It has always been man who kills, and man kills for many reasons.
 

RichardBurger

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It isn't religion that kills. Man is the one who kills. Joseph Stalin was an atheist, and he murdered millions of people. Mao Zedong and Pol Pot were also atheists, and these people killed by the millions. These people did not believe in God, but they killed millions. It has always been man who kills, and man kills for many reasons.

What do you do with the many that the RCC had burned at the stake? Does it build your faith in your church or do you just ignore it.
 

Selene

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What do you do with the many that the RCC had burned at the stake? Does it build your faith in your church or do you just ignore it.

Who did the RCC burned at the stake recently? Do you know what year you are living in? Do you honestly think that you are any better than a Catholic? Are you telling me that you are not a sinner? As I mentioned in my previous post, man is the one who kills,not religion. As you know, even the Apostles of Christ were not perfect. St. Peter denied Christ three times. St. Matthew was a cheating tax collecter, and St. Paul was a murderer of Christians. Are you a better man than they? Are you a better man than anyone living on this earth?
 

RichardBurger

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Who did the RCC burned at the stake recently? Do you know what year you are living in? Do you honestly think that you are any better than a Catholic? Are you telling me that you are not a sinner? As I mentioned in my previous post, man is the one who kills,not religion. As you know, even the Apostles of Christ were not perfect. St. Peter denied Christ three times. St. Matthew was a cheating tax collecter, and St. Paul was a murderer of Christians. Are you a better man than they? Are you a better man than anyone living on this earth?

Jesus said you can't get good fruit from a bad tree. To me the history of the RCC shows it to be a bad tree. But you can believe as you wish.

No, I do NOT think that I am better than anyone else. My conversations on this forum prove that. I am a sinner saved by the grace of God.

When I say that religions have persecuted the children of God are you incapable of understanding that religion is run by men/women. It is the men/women in religion that persecute the children of God. It was the perople in the RCC that determined who was to be burned at the stake. But those people represent their religious church. The leaders of the RCC dictate what goes on in the RCC. Good try but it didn't work.

I am not the one in this dicussion with you that claims to be sinless.

I see that the answer to my question is "you just ignore it."
 

Selene

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Jesus said you can't get good fruit from a bad tree. To me the history of the RCC shows it to be a bad tree. But you can believe as you wish.

No, I do NOT think that I am better than anyone else. My conversations on this forum prove that. I am a sinner saved by the grace of God.

When I say that religions have persecuted the children of God are you incapable of understanding that religion is run by men/women. It is the men/women in religion that persecute the children of God. It was the perople in the RCC that determined who was to be burned at the stake. But those people represent their religious church. The leaders of the RCC dictate what goes on in the RCC. Good try but it didn't work.

I am not the one in this dicussion with you that claims to be sinless.

I see that the answer to my question is "you just ignore it."

My brother, of course, the Catholic Church has a bad history simply because the Church is full of sinners just like any other church. What church do you know is full of people with no sins? As a matter of fact, God's chosen people, the Israelites, were also sinners. There were not perfect. Do you know how many times Israel turned away from God? They also have a very bad history like us. Isn't it amazing that God always choose the worst sinners of all to be His chosen ones?

However, the teachings remain the same. My brother, our history shows that we have committed some atrocities, but it also shows some good things as well. Our Church has produced people like Mother Teresa and St. Damian of Hawaii who chose to live with the lepers and tend to their needs as well as many others like them. The history of Israel also shows that there are times they lost faith in God and times when they were faithful to Him. We are not called to judge others.

As for your question, the RCC has not burned anyone at the stake for hundreds of years. What year is it? Isn't it 2010? Do you know of anyone in the past year that was burned at the stake by the RCC?

And when I say that atheists such as Joseph Stalin, Mao Zedong, and Pol Pot were people who murdered millions of innocents and these three don't believe in any religion.....what does that tell you?

In Christ,
Selene
 

RichardBurger

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My brother, of course, the Catholic Church has a bad history simply because the Church is full of sinners just like any other church. What church do you know is full of people with no sins? As a matter of fact, God's chosen people, the Israelites, were also sinners. There were not perfect. Do you know how many times Israel turned away from God? They also have a very bad history like us. Isn't it amazing that God always choose the worst sinners of all to be His chosen ones?

However, the teachings remain the same. My brother, our history shows that we have committed some atrocities, but it also shows some good things as well. Our Church has produced people like Mother Teresa and St. Damian of Hawaii who chose to live with the lepers and tend to their needs as well as many others like them. The history of Israel also shows that there are times they lost faith in God and times when they were faithful to Him. We are not called to judge others.

As for your question, the RCC has not burned anyone at the stake for hundreds of years. What year is it? Isn't it 2010? Do you know of anyone in the past year that was burned at the stake by the RCC?

And when I say that atheists such as Joseph Stalin, Mao Zedong, and Pol Pot were people who murdered millions of innocents and these three don't believe in any religion.....what does that tell you?

In Christ,
Selene

I'll let Paul answer your reply.

2 Corinthians 11:13-15
3 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into apostles of Christ.
14 And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light.
15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works.
NKJV
 

fivesense

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As for your question, the RCC has not burned anyone at the stake for hundreds of years. What year is it? Isn't it 2010? Do you know of anyone in the past year that was burned at the stake by the RCC?

In Christ,
Selene

If memory serves me, it was during the times of the alliances with civil governing bodies that the Papal Authority did mischief and evil. Outside those alliances, the Roman Church has indeed offered to the world many, many good and devout men and women who have affected us all in positive and forward moving ways as human beings.

Recently, I was remarking to the Beautiful Wife that Mother Theresa was a genuine saint in life to me. Her actions and confession of who was her Lord, the Christ of God, and her commitment to serve Him with all of her mind and strength, is an example to me of how true religion, as described by James, is to be put into effect. I hold her in the highest regard and will enjoy her spirit among the celestials as we reign with Christ in heaven.

fivesense
 

Selene

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I'll let Paul answer your reply.

2 Corinthians 11:13-15
3 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into apostles of Christ.
14 And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light.
15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works.
NKJV

If you actually believe that it is Satan who is responsible, then why blame religion? :huh:
 

fivesense

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I can't believe you are that dense.

Be gentle Richard. You did not come to the place of apprehension you maintain by a whip and cursings. It resulted out of humbly submitting to God and seeking Him for truth. Flogging and lopping off the ears may stop bad behavior, but it will not alter the onslaught of the Adversary and his attempts to derail the maturity of the Body of Christ. Forgive my intrusion, but I desire what is lovely for you, and me, and even the one's who are being pinned down to the mat by the False one.

fivesense.
 

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The question seems to be whether religious folks have the right to participate in government and the right to bring their morals to the table.

I submit that those who use arguments to belittle Christianity are not interested so much in a free exchange of ideas on religion and politics as they are in taking away the liberty of others.

NO ONE comes to the political table without preconceptions.
Christian, Jew, atheist, whatever; every person enters the political community with their own philosophical baggage.

Shall we accept the notion that one group cannot participate because we disagree with their philosophy or religion?

The United States was founded upon the principle of compromise; the act of arriving at a working solution which neither party is entirely happy with.

There is no such thing as a unanimous consensus in any society except those which live under tyranny (toward which we appear to be drifting - in our discussions if not in practice).
 

RichardBurger

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If you actually believe that it is Satan who is responsible, then why blame religion? :huh:

I am sorry if I got the wrong idea about your reply. Since men run religion, and Satan influences men, I thought your reply to be facetious. If it wasn't then please accept my apology.

Richard
 

Selene

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I am sorry if I got the wrong idea about your reply. Since men run religion, and Satan influences men, I thought your reply to be facetious. If it wasn't then please accept my apology.

Richard

Hello Richard,

Your apology is accepted. Satan is the enemy of both God and man. Satan will do what he can to lead men astray and we must always guard ourselves and cling to God.

In Christ,
Selene
 

DeusMisereatur

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Not one is immune from the temptations of sin. Do not try to pull out the splinter in your brother's eye without first pulling out the log in yours. It is such discourses of trying to call everyone else sinners -- trying to fault each other -- that we as Christians are not taken seriously in the modern era. Is it any wonder why men like Hitchens tries to dismantle religion when we act like this? As for the Catholic Church's past, I speak as a Catholic myself:

I fear not history. The Catholic Church is an organization made up of human beings seeking God. We are human. We sin. It is only by the grace of God that the Catholic Church has survived this long, for history shows us it very well should have disintegrated long ago -- few institutions last 2,000 years without changing.

As for the original poster's comment about heretics, I say this, as someone who's patron saint combated the heretics: they were, for the most part, genuine. But they twisted the Gospel: Gnostics, Manichaeans (sp?), Donatists, and many others perverted the Word of God. Some heresies, due to their doctrines, would risk destroying civilization (one particular heresy stated that since all flesh was evil, human institutions were evil, life was evil, marriage was evil, and suicide was just and good -- this was the one that caused the Inquisition as a reaction.) Grant it, what would have been preferred is to have rid the world of their dangerous ideals without damaging lives, but times were different. Religion to many people back in the day was the one thing in life worth living. Furthermore, one thing I learned in my agnostic days was this: belief without support is blind. If you have no support for what you believe, don't say it as fact. I bring this up because the original poster stated that he had no proof for his belief about the heretics.

It is revisionist of history that annoys me. But true historical fact I fear not. And another thing, about Constantine: it would have been stupid of him to change the Christian religion. It was the only religion that was suited for an empire of many races. To change the Christian faith was to bring a good number of his subjects against him, but we see the opposite-- his conversion was celebrated, as was his legalization. There are no records, other than wishful thinking, to the idea that Constantine made any changes to the Christian church. There was only one difference: before Constantine, it was illegal, afterwards it was legal -- because he won a battle with the sign of the Cross. Yes, he maintained some pagan symbolism, but one must remember as well half his empire was pagan. To change Christianity was to incite one group, to force Christianity would be to incite the other. If anyone is to speak of something, let them speak in truth. Pax Vobiscum.