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Remember the Sabbath Day to keep it holy

Discussion in 'Christian Apologetics Forum' started by gadar perets, Mar 11, 2018.

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  1. GerhardEbersoehn

    GerhardEbersoehn Well-Known Member

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    There has never been one, '~true anniversaries of Yeshua's death and resurrection~'; only the false ones of RC paganism. But there has always been "Remember the Sabbath" because "Jesus gave the People of God Rest", God having raised Him from the dead, "ON THE SABBATH BEFORE the First Day of the week".
    And there has never been as much as one, '~good Friday" and "Easter Sunday"~' except the pagan and RC, falsely called '~Christian good Friday" and "Easter Sunday"~'.

    And still you disown loyalty to Roman Catholicism and 'the most important days of Christianity', '~good Friday" and "Easter Sunday"~' and expect me to believe you?
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2018
  2. GerhardEbersoehn

    GerhardEbersoehn Well-Known Member

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    They did, friend; they did... more than 2000 years in the past now that they no longer do.
     
  3. gadar perets

    gadar perets Well-Known Member

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    You just admitted that Abib 14 fell on a Friday and Abib 16 on a Sunday the year Yeshua died. My case rests.
     
  4. GerhardEbersoehn

    GerhardEbersoehn Well-Known Member

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    Abib 14 could fall on any day of the week. I have abided by the fact all my life and you tell me I was asleep all my life that I never saw it?
    Come. let me tell you something today that you have known all your life but never realised the truth of. Let me help you 'as a fellow Sabbath believer'. From my heart now, all anger put aside, God help me.
    How did it happen that Abib 16 came to fall on the Seventh Day of the week? This is the most important question put to you in all your life, brother in Christ Gadar Perets! How did the Sabbath become the Commandment of God in the Fourth Commandment? GO FIGURE THAT ONE, OUT!

    Have you noticed that God, before He "gave" Israel, "the Sabbath", He "gave" them "the Sixth Day"? And what happened that very "Sixth Day"? Israel rebelled for the meat of Egypt and yearned for the land of GRAVES!
    And God just told them, O you sweet little babies, don't you cry for Argentina, Pappa will provide?

    You know the truth, God sent the PLAGUE upon Israel!

    But that just by the buy or by the way, quite literally and significantly. Nevertheless God did not stop his blessings there; He only proceeded further with his REDEMPTION and brought Israel UP OUT OF EGYPT.
    ON WHICH "DAY"? -- ON "BONE-DAY", ON "this Selfsame Whole-Day BONE-DAY"--DAY OF THE COVENANT OF GRACE OF GOD OF ALL EARTH'S AGES, ON "the DAY The Seventh Day SABBATH-OF-THE-LORD-GOD".

    Or do you know of any reason else that God "MADE THE SABBATH", "The Seventh Day", "the DAY the Sabbath-OF-THE-LORD-GOD" -- "THE LORD, YOUR, GOD", O "People of God"?

    Or was the reason that God, did NOTHING, to "rest"?! God forbid! No! God "made the Sabbath" the Fourth Commanded BECAUSE ON IT HE BROUGHT ISRAEL UP OUT OF EGYPT OUT THROUGH THE RED SEA.
    The date, on that occasion was the sixteenth day of the First Month (as you acknowledge yourself).

    And on that day, maybe a thousand years or so before the current era of Jesus Christ, on Sabbath Abib 16 the COUNT BEGAN TO PENTECOST.** The history of God's "completion" or "finishing" of "all his WORKS which He had made and created", or had "wrought", or had "triumphed" in, or, all in all, had "RESTED" in.

    The passover is the explanation and proof that God's Redemption -- the Gospel of Jesus Christ, BEGINS ON THE SABBATH DAY OF THE LORD GOD AND ENDS, ON THE SABBATH DAY OF THE LORD, YOUR, GOD.

    But the Book of Beginnings too and not in the least, any different!

    Until the Good News of Jesus Christ it STILL happened "according to HIS ETERNAL PURPOSE".

    You still want to rest your case? Then I won't know of anything that might change your mind to catch a glimpse of God's GRACE through his Sabbath dealings right through the Scriptures. To catch a glimpse of GOD'S PROVIDENCE AND PREDESTINATING LOVE as regards his Holy Day Sabbath, Day of God's REST-ACCOMPLISHMENT AND BLESSING THROUGH JESUS CHRIST.

    ** http://biblestudents.co.za/docs/html/Passover_Calendar_Months_Feast_of_Sabbaths.htm
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2018
  5. gadar perets

    gadar perets Well-Known Member

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    Please explain what "Whole-Day BONE-DAY" is and where that phrase comes from.

    He made the Sabbath for man to rest on (Mark 2:27).

    The Sabbath was already made long before the exodus from Egypt took place. Israel left Egypt on Abib 15 (Numbers 33:3), not Abib 16. Abib 15 on your calendar link is the sixth day of the week.

    Israel's redemption from Egypt took place on Abib 14. Our redemption through the shed blood of Yeshua took place on Abib 14 as well, not on Abib 16 (Colossians 1:14).
     
  6. GerhardEbersoehn

    GerhardEbersoehn Well-Known Member

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    And how is man to rest on the Sabbath except through "The Son of Man Lord of the Sabbath" and through Him "by the Power of his Resurrection"--"on the Sabbath"?
     
  7. GerhardEbersoehn

    GerhardEbersoehn Well-Known Member

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    '~The Sabbath was already made long before the exodus from Egypt took place.~'
    It has been what I have been trying to explain to you all the time! But you forget that God sent man and women away on the first Sabbath morning and swore that they would not enter into his Rest until the Saviour would come and restore the Peace.
    God was even more gracious, so that in the meantime He "GAVE the Sabbath" to the People of God as a sign that Jesus would come, the One who at first, had "MADE the Sabbath".

    '~Israel left Egypt on Abib 15 (Numbers 33:3), not Abib 16.~'
    I have never said different.
    But again, "The children of Israel WENT AWAY ... at midnight ... and journeyed from Rameses to Succot" on Abib 15. "This day came ye OUT in the month Abib." "But, God led the people ABOUT as they went out LADEN / harnessed (12:34) AND, they carried away Joseph's BONES, hence, and took their journey to Succot" for a few (3) hours there. Then "at Etham they ENCAMPED", got lazy and afraid and started to doubt and long after the land of graves and its flesh to eat, and moaned, "that we should die [and not be buried] in the wilderness" -- all on Abib 15! "Forget not how thou PROVOKEDST the LORD from the day thou didst DEPART out." Deuteronomy 9:17

    Abib 16 began with Exodus 14:13, "Salvation He will show today" ... the Whole-Day BONE-DAY" - 'etsem yom', "All That Night ... and THUS THAT DAY the LORD SAVED Israel out of the hand of the Egyptians ... and Israel saw that GREAT WORK which the LORD WORKED, and the People feared and worshipped the LORD and BELIEVED the LORD!" Then follows the Song of Moses and of the Lamb in chapter 15 ('a Song for the Sabbath Day')!
    "He brought us out of thence that He might BRING US IN ... THAT HE MIGHT PRESERVE US ALIVE AS AT THIS DAY." "Ye have seen what I did unto the Egyptians, how I bare you on eagle's wings and BROUGHT YOU UNTO MYSELF." "Thou shalt BRING THEM IN AND PLANT THEM IN the mountain of thine inheritance, The Place, o LORD, which Thou hast made for Thee to dwell in, Thy Sanctuary, o LORD, thy hands have established." (Isaiah 57:15 "RESTED UP AGAIN HIS NAME IS THE MOST HOLY PLACE!") "THIS DAY art thou become the People of the LORD THY GOD ... I COMMAND YOU THIS DAY!"
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2018
  8. GerhardEbersoehn

    GerhardEbersoehn Well-Known Member

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    "THIS DAY art thou become the People of the LORD THY GOD ... I COMMAND YOU THIS DAY!" no matter on which day of the month because in this Scripture, Deuteronomy 27:9,10 and 2, it fell on the 10th day of the First Month Joshua 4:19, and not again on the 16th day of the First Month as at the exodus.
     
  9. GerhardEbersoehn

    GerhardEbersoehn Well-Known Member

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    In Exodus, UNLIKE in all the rest of Scripture, ONE date, "the fourteenth day of the First Month", is used for "THREE days (indistinguishable) DARKNESS" called "THIS THAT SELFSAME WHOLE-DAY BONE-DAY". 'etsem yom'

    In Leviticus 23:11b-15, after institutionalised, "THIS THAT SELFSAME WHOLE-DAY BONE-DAY" applies to each of these originally indistinguishable "THREE DAYS", distinctly and specifically DATED "the fourteenth", "the fifteenth" as well as the sixteenth although not written the sixteenth but written as "THIS THAT SELFSAME WHOLE-DAY BONE-DAY THE FIRST SHEAF (was) REVEALED-AND-SHAKEN THUS OFFERED BEFORE THE LORD".

    PS
    Colossians 2:14 I think you meant. In any case, in chapter 2 it's true the Sabbath is "Feast of Christ the Substance", no longer any date of year or season or month or day as in Galatians 4:10.
    PS
    No, I see now what you insinuate with 'Colossians 1:14'. But there is the ongoing thread 'The Blood of Jesus' for that.
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2018
  10. gadar perets

    gadar perets Well-Known Member

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    Man was commanded to rest and did rest whenever they chose to obey the commandment and this long before Yeshua came.
     
  11. gadar perets

    gadar perets Well-Known Member

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    That oath was NEVER made to Adam and Eve. It was an oath made to the generation that sinned in the wilderness AFTER coming out of Egypt (Hebrews 3:7-19).

    Of course you did. Here are your words;


    How could Abib 16 start with Exodus 14:13 when Numbers 33:5-7 shows they camped in Succoth and Etham before the camping in Pihahiroth?
    You need to get your facts straight before trying to teach others.
     
  12. Philip James

    Philip James Well-Known Member

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    Let no one, then, pass judgment on you in matters of food and drink or with regard to a festival or new moon or sabbath

    Every day is a Sabbath day in Christ. We rest in Him.
     
  13. gadar perets

    gadar perets Well-Known Member

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    The three days of darkness ended before all the firstborn were slain at the beginning of Abib 15 (probably even earlier).

    There is no Greek word that means "substance" in Colossians 2. Nor is there a Greek word that means "reality" in that chapter. The Greek word "soma" means the "body" (either literally or figuratively as in the "Body of Messiah".
     
  14. gadar perets

    gadar perets Well-Known Member

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    Please direct me to the verse that says that. If you can't find one, then at least show me a verse that calls any day other than the 7th day a "Sabbath".
     
  15. Philip James

    Philip James Well-Known Member

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    Read Hebrews 3 and 4...

    Here is 4:10-11

    And whoever enters into God's rest, rests from his own works as God did from his.

    Therefore, let us strive to enter into that rest, so that no one may fall after the same example of disobedience
    .

    Peace be with you!
     
  16. gadar perets

    gadar perets Well-Known Member

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    The original account from which Hebrews 4:1-11 is taken is found in Numbers 14:22-24, 28-30, and Deuteronomy 1:30-40. In both passages it was the "land" (of Canaan) that was being withheld because of unbelief. The children of Israel were on their wilderness journey to the "promised land," which was a type of the "rest" to come. Joshua brought them into that land or the typical "rest" (Joshua 1:13-15; 21:44; 22:4), yet the Almighty again spoke through David concerning this greater rest. In Psalm 95:11, David uses the phrase "my rest" instead of "the land" as in the original promise. Why? Because "the land" was only a type of the future rest to come when true believers enter into the true promised land, the "heavenly country" that the patriarchs of old saw from afar (Heb 11:13-16).

    We are currently on our wilderness journey as well. We are heading for the heavenly country promised us. Just as the Israelites continued keeping the Sabbath rest throughout their wilderness journey, so, too, must we continue to keep the Sabbath rest. In fact, the Israelites continued to keep the Sabbath even after entering the typical promised land of Canaan. We, too, will continue in the Sabbath rest as prophesied by Isaiah even after the new heaven and new earth come (Isaiah 66:22-23).

    If the common Christian view of Hebrews 4:10 is correct, that the Sabbath is abolished because we have entered the true rest and that every day is a Sabbath day, then, to be consistent, it must also be true that all work is abolished since we have ceased from our own works. In other words, if the physical rest is done away with, then the physical labor should also be done away with. However, since believers continue to do physical labors like farming, construction work, etc., they should also continue to rest from such labor as it is written. Additionally, the Sabbath rest is commanded for the sake of animals as well. Is it now permissible for farmers to work their animals seven days a week? Do animals somehow enter into the true rest as well?

    Hebrews 4:11 talks about laboring to enter into that rest. It is not something we automatically receive upon accepting Yeshua as our Savior except by faith. That rest will become a reality upon our resurrection unto eternal life. That is why we see the saints of Revelation 14:12-13 laboring right up until death. It is only after death that the ultimate rest can literally begin. Note, also, that those saints "keep the commandments of God" (KJV), among which is the Sabbath.

    We certainly can find rest for our souls in Messiah (Matthew 11:28-29), but he does not give our bodies rest, nor does he give animals rest. That kind of rest is only available through the Sabbath rest. Jeremiah 6:16 reads, "Thus saith Yahweh, 'Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls.' But they said, 'We will not walk therein.' " The "old paths" and the "good way" that provides a "rest for the soul" includes the keeping of Yahweh's Sabbaths. Notice the similar wording found in Isaiah 58:12-13. The rest we have in Yeshua is only a foretaste of the rest to come at his second coming when we will be dwelling in the presence of the Father and the Son in the glorious "heavenly country".

    Shabbat Shalom!
     
  17. GerhardEbersoehn

    GerhardEbersoehn Well-Known Member

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    Your answer is, first, untrue; no one ever for one Sabbath Day, '~obeyed~' the Sabbath Commandment of God; except The Son of Man Jesus Christ. Isaiah 56. "The Law was / came because of transgression", not keeping.

    Your remonstrance, in the second place, ranking with the first in worth, is based and built on and furnished and decorated with free-will religion, which I shall restrain myself to comment on.
     
  18. GerhardEbersoehn

    GerhardEbersoehn Well-Known Member

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    Exactly like you are quoting from Hebrews, I did. But you act like I did not. Go back to my posts if you would, which I don't think you have read once with an open mind and watchful eye.

    Read Genesis 2:17. Because it is not commented by the author that God oathed, his Word is lenient? What about his Sabbath Commandment, isn't it an oath of God? "THOU SHALT SURELY DIE" is God taking oath "BY HIMSELF", AS, TO, Adam and Eve. But will you, like they, try God out and see if He really meant what He said, because, you know, He did not 'sware' you know?

    And by the way, that God spoke Genesis 1:29 on the Sixth Day proves by definition that God spoke Genesis 2:17 on the Sixth Day as well as that Eve and Adam spoke Genesis 3:2,3 ON THE SIXTH DAY.
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2018
  19. GerhardEbersoehn

    GerhardEbersoehn Well-Known Member

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    Please try see the difference between "DEPARTED OUT on the fifteenth" and "ARRIVED OUT, IN", even "PLANTED" IN the land the LORD "brought you out INTO", on the sixteenth.

    Open your eyes man and SEE "this that (First) NIGHT to be solemnly observed" with EATING, starting the fifteenth in Exodus 12:41,42 "at the end of the 430 years it came to pass that all the hosts of the LORD went / departed OUT from the land of Egypt ... from Rameses ... at midnight ... to Succoth" later on the fifteenth still.

    Open your eyes man and SEE "TODAY ... ALL THAT NIGHT (x2) ... and DAY ('boquer panah') ... the LORD shall FIGHT for you (Isaiah 57:14) ... through the midst of the sea (x4) ... THAT DAY OUT of the hand of the Egyptians ... till thy people PASS OVER which Thou hast PURCHASED ("bought with the blood of Christ") ... Thou shalt BRING them IN (HAST BROUGHT THEM IN) and PLANT (PLANTED) them IN the Mountain of Thine Inheritance : THE PLACE, O LORD, Thou hast made for Thee to DWELL IN, Thy SANCTUARY, O LORD (Isaiah 57:15), Thy Hands have ESTABLISHED. The LORD shall reign for ever and ever ... FOR HE HATH TRIUMPHED GLORIOUSLY."

    That's two nights and two days "out", the first one out from and out; and the last one, out of and into.

    Where is the first night and first day, the third night and day of the "three days thick darkness of the plague"? It was spent back in Egypt before or as the very last one day IN Egypt, while Israel still DWELT there IN slavery and UNDER bondage. It was an Egyptian, pagan, day which started and ended sunrise. But, "This, That Whole-Day Selfsame BONE-DAY", "at the end of the 430 years" -- 430 years since the last BONE-DAY before, when God with Abraham COVENANTED FOR THIS DAY AND EVENTUALLY FOR THIS SELFSAME DAY THROUGH HIM WHO MADE THE SABBATH, "Rest-Day" of the Almighty, of our Saviour Jesus, God-in-Christ.
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2018
  20. GerhardEbersoehn

    GerhardEbersoehn Well-Known Member

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    No, that's not what I wrote or said or meant, ever. You need to get your facts straight before trying to twist my words.
    In Exodus 12 they "departed from Rameses, to Succot" v37, "And Moses said unto the people, Remember This Day in which ye came / departed out from Egypt, for by strength of hand the LORD, brought you out, from, this place. THIS DAY in the month Abib (the 14th in Exodus, in after the passover Scriptures, e.g. in Numbers, the 15th) came /started ye out. And it SHALL be WHEN the LORD shall bring you IN INTO the land" that Exodus 14:13-31 correlates with Exodus 13:5-22 in the chiasm or structure of composition!
    And there it says, "It came about that when Pharaoh let the people go ... that God led the people about the way of the wilderness of the Red Sea ... and they took their journey..." ("out from Rameses in Egypt to Succoth ... and baked unleavened cakes (at Succoth)" Exodus 12:37) "...and they took their journey from Succoth (to Etham) and encamped in Etham in the edge of the wilderness. And the LORD went before them by (That) Day", 13:20-22, because they could not distinguish which day it was, nor whether it was day or night due to the plague of darkness over all the land of Egypt. The story of "the SELFSAME day" goes on in chapter 14, to where Israel found themselves in the same straights the prophet Jonah found himself in, as "in the belly of the fish under the foundations of the mountains". Israel found themselves "overtaken" 14:9, pressed in "before Pihahiroth (spirits haunted marsh or swamp) between Migdol (Egyptian fortified height) and the sea over against Baalzephon (god of typhoons) where the LORD told them to "encamp" (prepare to rest). 14:2. But they rebelled and did not believe, 14:10-12, and refused to enter into His REST but God kept true his faithfulness, 14:13 on.
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2018
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