Remember the Sabbath Day to keep it holy

[bbyrd009]

I don't have a clue what your cryptic question means.

ah, might not be the same in DRB, dunno. it searches easily enough? Daniel?

And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws

may have come up in this thread already, dunno

 

[bbyrd009]

And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws

 

[amadeus]

Hi Amadeus,

I see your keeping those answers close to your chest since you can't seem to articulate a clear answer my very simple questions.

Scripture says to always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have.

I only see obfuscation in your responses. None the less, thank you for your time.

Mary

"Ears to hear" are required to hear and understand God's message to us:

"So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God." Rom 10:17

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

I just noticed you used a bogus translation. The word "every" is not in the Greek text. The correct translation is;

1 Corinthians 16:2 Upon the first of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.
​

As I wrote in my last post, this was a one time collection, not a weekly collection.

It is no 'bogus translation', 'kata Mian sabbatou' compares well with 'kata heortehn', "on every feast" a condemned person was released
Mark 15:6-11
Κατὰ δὲ ἑορτὴν ἀπέλυεν αὐτοῖς ἕνα δέσμιον.
Now at the feast he released unto them one prisoner
John 18:39,40 [Leviticus 16:10]
ἔστιν δὲ συνήθεια ὑμῖν ἵνα ἕνα ἀπολύσω ὑμῖν ἐν τῷ πάσχα·
But ye have a custom, that I should release unto you one at the passover:

It was established, 'Christian' practice. 'Christian' not because worship services were held on every Sunday, but because worship services were NOT held on Sundays, but on the FOREGOING Sabbath!
And 'Christian' custom it was, not because any holiness was attached to Sundays, but BECAUSE OF THE CHRISTIAN EXPRESSION per se, the new and uniquely Christian NOMENCLATURE AND WAY OF THINKING among the young Christian Community, for days of the week, in this case for or "according to the custom, to every First (Day) [Mian (Hemeran) of the week [sabbatou] privately reckon out and put aside" something for the future shipment of the Corinthians' relief help to Jerusalem.
'Christian it was' because 1Corinthians 16 verses 1 and 2, and, even up to the end of the Letter, was Paul's 1 Corinthians 15 SABBATH SERMON'S, closing announcement / announcements started in 15:58 and 16:1 "concerning the collection" read before the believers in Congregation and holy communion of the saints on the Sabbath Days EVERYWHERE!

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws

Where, in which Scriptures, does one actually see and read such changes MADE?

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Everyday should be a sabbath

'As Jesus is our Sabbath Rest...it does not matter a hill of beans.'

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Jesus changed a lot of things....didn’t he. He also said to the Apostles what you bind on earth will be bound in heaven. Scripture and Christian historical writings from the times of the Apostles say Sunday. Nothing else.
Keep holy the Sabbath is a ceremonial commandment. All the others are moral commandments. Many ceremonial practices of the Jews were changed with Jesus.
Mary

There were two kinds of Commandments both which GOD gave and therefore both were MORALLY obliged. There are NO Commandments of God that aren't 'moral'.
The two kinds of GOD-given Laws are: 1. Positive, affirmative laws; and 2. Negative, prohibitive laws.

In the Ten Commandments eight are negative, prohibitive laws; only two are positive, affirmative laws.

Now guess which ones are the positive, affirmative laws in the Ten Commandments?

Guess: The two middle ones.

Hurray, that's right, guess!

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Now think about it, "The Law was added, because of transgression". So God ADDED his Sabbath Commandment ... guess why?

Guess: Because his Sabbath was transgressed, that is, was broken, trodden upon, despised, loathed, that's why!

But you say there was no Sabbath of the LORD before the Law of the Sabbath?

Now you've got me. That one, I'll never be able to understand...

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Jesus changed a lot of things....didn’t he. He also said to the Apostles what you bind on earth will be bound in heaven. Scripture and Christian historical writings from the times of the Apostles say Sunday. Nothing else.

So...
We have GOD saying Sabbath and that's 'ceremonial', not 'moral'; and we have 'Scripture and Christian historical writings from the times of the Apostles say Sunday', and that's not ceremonial, but moral. BUT, Scripture nor Christian historical writings from the times of the Apostles, AS A MATTER OF FACT, 'say Sunday'!

That is 'Christianity' for you nowadays!

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

I also say that every day is the Sabbath. But we do have to put aside one day a week for service.

'We have to...'
We have to 'put aside', viz., 'sanctify' NOTHING! Nothing WHICH God not Himself sanctified and set aside "remaining for the People of God (as) keeping / resting of the Sabbath Day". Hebrews 4.
No thanks; God already provided for the People of God as far as the Sabbath is concerned by having raised Christ from the dead ON IT.
That's what the Sabbath Day meant and still means for God's 'service'.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Didache says On the day of the Lord is Sunday

It does not. It says "On the day of the Lord"; it does not say 'is Sunday'.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Barnabas written 80 AD (while the Apostle John was still alive) We keep the eighth day with joyfulness, the day also on which Jesus rose again from the dead" (Epistle of Barnabas)

So?
Read the context; it is about "the Seventh Day".

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Ignatius: "[T]hose who were brought up in the ancient order of things [i.e. Jews] have come to the possession of a new hope, no longer observing the sabbath, but living in the observance of the Lord's day, on which also our life has sprung up again by him and by his death" (Letter to the Magnesians 8 [A.D. 107]).

“The Lord’s Day” in Ignatius (9:1) presupposes the Sabbath (Seventh Day) as it should be for Christians, namely, “according to living the Lord’s Life”, as “a Sabbath-living” that is “according to Christ Jesus” (8:2) – a “living” “wherein also our life sprang up through Him and His death”. Ignatius found the Christians were “living” “according to Judaism” (8:1) and “according to a Sabbathising” void of “Christ Jesus” and void of that “living according to the Lord’s Life” (9:1).

“The Lord’s Day” in Ignatius (9:1) does not suggest the First Day of the week / Sunday; if Ignatius were to write today he would have called Sunday observance a “Sabbathising” void of “Christ Jesus” and a “Judaism”, void of “the Lord’s Life”.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Justin Martyr: "Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Savior on the same day rose from the dead. For he was crucified on the day before that of Saturn [Saturday]; and on the day after that of Saturn . . . having appeared to his apostles and disciples, he taught them these things, which we have submitted to you also" (First Apology 67 [A.D. 152]).

Yes, Justin the first politician christian theologian. Politicians could never be trusted, as we see in Justin's classical case.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

I could go on and on thru history but it is a waste of time for anyone that already has their mind made up. There is no record that I know if that says otherwise.

Go on? There is nothing else from the first two (and even three) centuries 'thru history' you could have gone on with. That I, know!

 

[gadar perets]

It is no 'bogus translation', 'kata Mian sabbatou' compares well with 'kata heortehn', "on every feast" a condemned person was released
Mark 15:6-11
Κατὰ δὲ ἑορτὴν ἀπέλυεν αὐτοῖς ἕνα δέσμιον.

Your first mistake is in quoting the Greek phrase. The Greek of Mark 15:6 reads, "Κατὰ δὲ ἑορτὴν", but you say it reads, "kata heortehn". Where is the Greek "δὲ" in your quote?
Second, you translate "kata" as "on". I searched through many translations and could not find one that uses "on". I could not even find a lexicon that gives "kata" the definition of "on".
Third, "Κατὰ δὲ ἑορτὴν" literally translate as "At but feast". Most translations add the word "that" to yield "But at that feast". They put the word "that" in italics to show it is not in the Greek text. Some add "every" instead of "that", but the fact of the matter is "every" is added by man and is not found in the Greek text.

Now at the feast he released unto them one prisoner

John 18:39,40 [Leviticus 16:10]
ἔστιν δὲ συνήθεια ὑμῖν ἵνα ἕνα ἀπολύσω ὑμῖν ἐν τῷ πάσχα·
But ye have a custom, that I should release unto you one at the passover:

It was established, 'Christian' practice. 'Christian' not because worship services were held on every Sunday, but because worship services were NOT held on Sundays, but on the FOREGOING Sabbath!
And 'Christian' custom it was, not because any holiness was attached to Sundays, but BECAUSE OF THE CHRISTIAN EXPRESSION per se, the new and uniquely Christian NOMENCLATURE AND WAY OF THINKING among the young Christian Community, for days of the week, in this case for or "according to the custom, to every First (Day) [Mian (Hemeran) of the week [sabbatou] privately reckon out and put aside" something for the future shipment of the Corinthians' relief help to Jerusalem.

What was an "established, 'Christian' practice"? Worshiping on the weekly Sabbath? If so, I agree. If you are calling the "FOREGOING Sabbath" the "First (Day) [Mian (Hemeran) of the week [sabbatou]", then I totally disagree.

'Christian it was' because 1Corinthians 16 verses 1 and 2, and, even up to the end of the Letter, was Paul's 1 Corinthians 15 SABBATH SERMON'S, closing announcement / announcements started in 15:58 and 16:1 "concerning the collection" read before the believers in Congregation and holy communion of the saints on the Sabbath Days EVERYWHERE!

I have no idea what you are trying to say here. 1 Corinthians 16:1-3 refers to a ONE TIME "commercial gathering" of goods for the starving saints in Jerusalem. It does NOT refer to a weekly "collection" where they passed the plate around. The "commercial gathering" of relief goods was "FOR the saints", not "FOR the church" so they can conduct weekly services on Sunday or undergo their buildings projects.

 

[Marymog]

"Ears to hear" are required to hear and understand God's message to us:
"So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God." Rom 10:17

Hi Amadeus,

I love bible study . Lets quote the passage right before Romans 10:17. As you will see when we take it all into CONTEXT (instead of partially quoting scripture to make our argument look stronger) we see that having "ears to hear" does not mean one necessarily believes or understands what they hear: But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report? (Romans 10:17)

As you also know just because one hears does not mean one understands: There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures (2Peter3:16).

And when one doesn't understand scripture they can't give an answer to everyone who asks to give the reason for the hope that they have (1Peter3:15).

Bible study Mary

 

[Marymog]

There were two kinds of Commandments both which GOD gave and therefore both were MORALLY obliged. There are NO Commandments of God that aren't 'moral'.
The two kinds of GOD-given Laws are: 1. Positive, affirmative laws; and 2. Negative, prohibitive laws.
In the Ten Commandments eight are negative, prohibitive laws; only two are positive, affirmative laws.
Now guess which ones are the positive, affirmative laws in the Ten Commandments?
Guess: The two middle ones.
Hurray, that's right, guess!

Hi,

Look up the definition of ceremony and you will see that keeping the Sabbath is a ceremonial law ALSO. Just because it is one does not mean it can not be another. It can be both Ceremonial and Positive.

Your welcome.

Mary

 

[Marymog]

So...
We have GOD saying Sabbath and that's 'ceremonial', not 'moral'; and we have 'Scripture and Christian historical writings from the times of the Apostles say Sunday', and that's not ceremonial, but moral. BUT, Scripture nor Christian historical writings from the times of the Apostles, AS A MATTER OF FACT, 'say Sunday'!

That is 'Christianity' for you nowadays!

No sir. That was Christianity when the apostles walked the earth and it has been for 2,000 years. Not "nowadays" like you seem to believe.

I never said it wasn't a moral commandment. If I did, please quote me.

Mary

 

[Marymog]

Go on? There is nothing else from the first two (and even three) centuries 'thru history' you could have gone on with. That I, know!

Dear friend,

I have provided historical evidence that for the first 120 years of Christianity Christians practiced Sunday worship. If you had any knowledge of your Christian history then you would know that any real opposition to Sunday worship didn't begin until the 1500's AD.

I will ask you again: Can you please provide ANY proof that Christians in the first 100 years after the death of Jesus that they practiced Saturday church services?

Historical and curious Mary